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	<title>Comments on: Ryan Theriot is Either on Steroids, or Doesn&#8217;t Have a Sense of Irony</title>
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	<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/</link>
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		<title>By: Ace</title>
		<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-1324</link>
		<dc:creator>Ace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 01:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bleachernation.com/?p=2150#comment-1324</guid>
		<description>No sorry at all - I love the ramble. I learn every time you comment (or write - excellently - on ACB). 

I think avoiding biting analysis too early in the season is a great aspiration, but I know that I personally couldn&#039;t do it. I may recognize that, intellectually, it&#039;s unfair - but it&#039;s just the nature of the fan beast. I&#039;m not saying I want to be the guy who talks about something (or bitches about something) because he needs something to talk about, but it&#039;s probably my message board background. Ironically - given this post - I&#039;m a knee-jerk kind of guy. I try to fight it, but if a player - *cough* Milton Bradley *cough* - is sucking balls through five games or fifty games, I&#039;m gonna get grouse-y.

This is not, of course, a defense of the beat writers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No sorry at all &#8211; I love the ramble. I learn every time you comment (or write &#8211; excellently &#8211; on ACB). </p>
<p>I think avoiding biting analysis too early in the season is a great aspiration, but I know that I personally couldn&#8217;t do it. I may recognize that, intellectually, it&#8217;s unfair &#8211; but it&#8217;s just the nature of the fan beast. I&#8217;m not saying I want to be the guy who talks about something (or bitches about something) because he needs something to talk about, but it&#8217;s probably my message board background. Ironically &#8211; given this post &#8211; I&#8217;m a knee-jerk kind of guy. I try to fight it, but if a player &#8211; *cough* Milton Bradley *cough* &#8211; is sucking balls through five games or fifty games, I&#8217;m gonna get grouse-y.</p>
<p>This is not, of course, a defense of the beat writers.</p>
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		<title>By: MB21</title>
		<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-1313</link>
		<dc:creator>MB21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 13:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bleachernation.com/?p=2150#comment-1313</guid>
		<description>It hurts the analysis for sure, but it&#039;s still significantly better than you&#039;re going to read in the Tribune, Sun-Times or Daily Herald.  The truth is that I don&#039;t even bother to check those places out anymore unless a headline grabs my attention or someone posts a link.  And even when I do read that stuff, I mostly skim it because it&#039;s written at such a level that is quite frankly pathetic for someone who supposedly has a college education.  

I&#039;m generally against any kind of analysis until there has been around 100 games played too.  I think at that point we have a decent idea how that specific team is going to perform over the next 60 games.  You still have to regress quite a bit, but at that point there is a decent amount of information available to perhaps influence opinions you may have had before the season began.  Anything prior to that is, in my opinion, relatively ignorant to do because it shows little grasp for statistics and the importance of small sample sizes.  

I&#039;ve been thinking about writing something on Mike Fontenot, but each time I start I&#039;m led to the same place immediately:  I simply don&#039;t have much additional information now than I had before the season began.  It&#039;s true that at this point Fontenot&#039;s production is more than 1 standard deviation away from what we expected, but it&#039;s still not statistically significant difference.  In other words, his production is still within what we know what his true skill level prior to the season.  He&#039;s underperformed, but there&#039;s still no reason to adjust what we thought going into the season.  

I don&#039;t write about Fontenot because although he&#039;s not performed anywhere near expectations, he&#039;s still performed within a range that makes it statistically insignificant.  To add numbers to this discussion, Fontenot&#039;s wOBA is .307.  .300 is replacement level so he&#039;s played quite poorly.  .335 or so is average.  He&#039;s had 130 plate appearances.  The variance in that amount of plate time from his true skill level is about 0.050.  Fontenot&#039;s true skill level prior to the start of the season was about .350.  He&#039;s performed within expectations.  Anywhere from .300 to .400 is where we would expect Fontenot to be after 130 plate appearances.  He&#039;s sucked for sure, but it&#039;s not surprising because of the sample.  

Many people would jump at the idea of analyzing him through this much of season and it&#039;s not only the wrong thing to do, it also shows us that someone doesn&#039;t understand statistics and/or this game.  

This is why I despise beat writers.  All of them.  Yes, Bruce Miles is better than the others, but being the best of the beat writers in Chicago is like being the tallest midget.  

Sorry for rambling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It hurts the analysis for sure, but it&#8217;s still significantly better than you&#8217;re going to read in the Tribune, Sun-Times or Daily Herald.  The truth is that I don&#8217;t even bother to check those places out anymore unless a headline grabs my attention or someone posts a link.  And even when I do read that stuff, I mostly skim it because it&#8217;s written at such a level that is quite frankly pathetic for someone who supposedly has a college education.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m generally against any kind of analysis until there has been around 100 games played too.  I think at that point we have a decent idea how that specific team is going to perform over the next 60 games.  You still have to regress quite a bit, but at that point there is a decent amount of information available to perhaps influence opinions you may have had before the season began.  Anything prior to that is, in my opinion, relatively ignorant to do because it shows little grasp for statistics and the importance of small sample sizes.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking about writing something on Mike Fontenot, but each time I start I&#8217;m led to the same place immediately:  I simply don&#8217;t have much additional information now than I had before the season began.  It&#8217;s true that at this point Fontenot&#8217;s production is more than 1 standard deviation away from what we expected, but it&#8217;s still not statistically significant difference.  In other words, his production is still within what we know what his true skill level prior to the season.  He&#8217;s underperformed, but there&#8217;s still no reason to adjust what we thought going into the season.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t write about Fontenot because although he&#8217;s not performed anywhere near expectations, he&#8217;s still performed within a range that makes it statistically insignificant.  To add numbers to this discussion, Fontenot&#8217;s wOBA is .307.  .300 is replacement level so he&#8217;s played quite poorly.  .335 or so is average.  He&#8217;s had 130 plate appearances.  The variance in that amount of plate time from his true skill level is about 0.050.  Fontenot&#8217;s true skill level prior to the start of the season was about .350.  He&#8217;s performed within expectations.  Anywhere from .300 to .400 is where we would expect Fontenot to be after 130 plate appearances.  He&#8217;s sucked for sure, but it&#8217;s not surprising because of the sample.  </p>
<p>Many people would jump at the idea of analyzing him through this much of season and it&#8217;s not only the wrong thing to do, it also shows us that someone doesn&#8217;t understand statistics and/or this game.  </p>
<p>This is why I despise beat writers.  All of them.  Yes, Bruce Miles is better than the others, but being the best of the beat writers in Chicago is like being the tallest midget.  </p>
<p>Sorry for rambling.</p>
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		<title>By: pmayo</title>
		<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-1311</link>
		<dc:creator>pmayo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 07:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bleachernation.com/?p=2150#comment-1311</guid>
		<description>Fair enough.  I pretty much agree with what you wrote, although I do think Telander did accuse Theriot of using, albeit in a very veiled manner.   Like I said, my stance is that if Telander wants to write about steroids, he should--but he needs to tell the whole story, including the role he played in it with the Mandarich article.  But he doesn&#039;t really want to talk about steroids; he wants to traffic in cheap innuendo that will drive up page hits.  

I think you&#039;re right to caution against knee-jerk defenses of Cub players just because they&#039;re Cub players, though.  Close reading and thinking critically is something we should all encourage, because God knows the beat guys won&#039;t!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough.  I pretty much agree with what you wrote, although I do think Telander did accuse Theriot of using, albeit in a very veiled manner.   Like I said, my stance is that if Telander wants to write about steroids, he should&#8211;but he needs to tell the whole story, including the role he played in it with the Mandarich article.  But he doesn&#8217;t really want to talk about steroids; he wants to traffic in cheap innuendo that will drive up page hits.  </p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re right to caution against knee-jerk defenses of Cub players just because they&#8217;re Cub players, though.  Close reading and thinking critically is something we should all encourage, because God knows the beat guys won&#8217;t!</p>
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		<title>By: Ace</title>
		<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-1307</link>
		<dc:creator>Ace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 23:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bleachernation.com/?p=2150#comment-1307</guid>
		<description>I appreciate the background, pmayo. My reaction was a quick one, based only on the strict language of his original article, and the harsh reactions to it. I still feel fine about what I wrote, but I also feel like I have a whole lot more context now. My post was (intended to be) more a criticism of some of the reactions than to be a support for Telander&#039;s article.

Still, I&#039;m learning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate the background, pmayo. My reaction was a quick one, based only on the strict language of his original article, and the harsh reactions to it. I still feel fine about what I wrote, but I also feel like I have a whole lot more context now. My post was (intended to be) more a criticism of some of the reactions than to be a support for Telander&#8217;s article.</p>
<p>Still, I&#8217;m learning.</p>
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		<title>By: Ace</title>
		<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-1306</link>
		<dc:creator>Ace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 23:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bleachernation.com/?p=2150#comment-1306</guid>
		<description>In addition to the access issue, I would add the fact that most bloggers can&#039;t do it as a full-time job - and speaking personally, that hurts the analysis, too. I wish I had more time to go into things than I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to the access issue, I would add the fact that most bloggers can&#8217;t do it as a full-time job &#8211; and speaking personally, that hurts the analysis, too. I wish I had more time to go into things than I do.</p>
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		<title>By: pmayo</title>
		<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-1297</link>
		<dc:creator>pmayo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 15:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bleachernation.com/?p=2150#comment-1297</guid>
		<description>Ace, the source of my criticisms of both Telander&#039;s articles on this subject is Telander&#039;s past.  He was writing about steroids in 1988, then in 1989 he writes this glowing piece about Mandarich for the now infamous SI cover, when anyone with eyes could tell that Mandarich&#039; physique was straight out of a bottle.  Then he&#039;s largely silent on the topic until 99-00, when it became fashionable for sportswriters to write critically about steroid usage.  

Telander likes to arrogate a certain authority to himself in his writings, but if he knows so much, it seems odd that he wasn&#039;t so boldly suspicious in 1989, whe, as we know  from the Mitchell Report a &quot;serious&quot; steroid problem existed in MLB, and as an SI reporter, Telander had sufficient access to break that story.  But remained silent, and now that it&#039;s en vogue to be a skeptical sportswriter, he sees fit to smear Theriot (whether intentionally or not, it&#039;s how his poorly argued and even more poorly researched article works) and blame MLB and the players while ignoring the role that the silence and &quot;see no evil, speak no evil&quot; approach of MSM sportswriters played in the steroid era.  His piece in clumsy, inaccurate, and alarmingly myopic.  A serious topic deserves serious argument. His piece doesn&#039;t rise to that standard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ace, the source of my criticisms of both Telander&#8217;s articles on this subject is Telander&#8217;s past.  He was writing about steroids in 1988, then in 1989 he writes this glowing piece about Mandarich for the now infamous SI cover, when anyone with eyes could tell that Mandarich&#8217; physique was straight out of a bottle.  Then he&#8217;s largely silent on the topic until 99-00, when it became fashionable for sportswriters to write critically about steroid usage.  </p>
<p>Telander likes to arrogate a certain authority to himself in his writings, but if he knows so much, it seems odd that he wasn&#8217;t so boldly suspicious in 1989, whe, as we know  from the Mitchell Report a &#8220;serious&#8221; steroid problem existed in MLB, and as an SI reporter, Telander had sufficient access to break that story.  But remained silent, and now that it&#8217;s en vogue to be a skeptical sportswriter, he sees fit to smear Theriot (whether intentionally or not, it&#8217;s how his poorly argued and even more poorly researched article works) and blame MLB and the players while ignoring the role that the silence and &#8220;see no evil, speak no evil&#8221; approach of MSM sportswriters played in the steroid era.  His piece in clumsy, inaccurate, and alarmingly myopic.  A serious topic deserves serious argument. His piece doesn&#8217;t rise to that standard.</p>
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		<title>By: MB21</title>
		<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-1296</link>
		<dc:creator>MB21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 15:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bleachernation.com/?p=2150#comment-1296</guid>
		<description>The problem with bloggers is that they don&#039;t have access.  As far as analysis goes, there are numerous bloggers that are better than any of the Cubs beat writers.  It&#039;s not even close.  The unfortunate part about this is that few of them use their access and instead try to analyze something, which they just aren&#039;t competent enough to do.  If they stuck with reporting and talking to the athletes, I&#039;d be happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with bloggers is that they don&#8217;t have access.  As far as analysis goes, there are numerous bloggers that are better than any of the Cubs beat writers.  It&#8217;s not even close.  The unfortunate part about this is that few of them use their access and instead try to analyze something, which they just aren&#8217;t competent enough to do.  If they stuck with reporting and talking to the athletes, I&#8217;d be happy.</p>
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		<title>By: Ace</title>
		<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-1293</link>
		<dc:creator>Ace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 22:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bleachernation.com/?p=2150#comment-1293</guid>
		<description>And I will totally confess that I don&#039;t know Telander&#039;s work from Adam (that is to say, I don&#039;t know his work as well as others), so I&#039;ll defer to you on that one.

Muskat is not as terrible as folks in the Cublogoverse make her out to be. I think she&#039;s constricted by her contacts. I think I&#039;d give the nod to Miles as my favorite Cubs beat writer. Of course, I think there are several bloggers that I would put above all of them, but that&#039;s another story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I will totally confess that I don&#8217;t know Telander&#8217;s work from Adam (that is to say, I don&#8217;t know his work as well as others), so I&#8217;ll defer to you on that one.</p>
<p>Muskat is not as terrible as folks in the Cublogoverse make her out to be. I think she&#8217;s constricted by her contacts. I think I&#8217;d give the nod to Miles as my favorite Cubs beat writer. Of course, I think there are several bloggers that I would put above all of them, but that&#8217;s another story.</p>
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		<title>By: MB21</title>
		<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-1291</link>
		<dc:creator>MB21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 17:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bleachernation.com/?p=2150#comment-1291</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s pretty sad, but Carrie Muskat is the best Cubs beat writer.  she does more with her access than all the others combined.  Bruce Miles is occasionally OK, and rarely as bad as Paul Sullivan or Gordon Whiitenmeyer, but he&#039;s still not very good.  Neither is Muskat.  

If Theriot hitting 5 home runs in may is what got Telander to write the article he did about the bigger picture then he just isn&#039;t very smart.  I don&#039;t really think it matters why he wrote it.  I think it was because of theriot and you don&#039;t, but the end result is the same: it proves Telander is an idiot.  

If he wrote it for the reasons you suggest then he&#039;s an idiot because he hasn&#039;t the foggiest clue about sample size and somehow compared what Theriot is doing to that of Bonds and McGwire and A-Rod and Manny.  

I don&#039;t think telander is smart enough to do what you suggest.  His past wok suggest someone who isn&#039;t very bright and someone who has no understanding of the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s pretty sad, but Carrie Muskat is the best Cubs beat writer.  she does more with her access than all the others combined.  Bruce Miles is occasionally OK, and rarely as bad as Paul Sullivan or Gordon Whiitenmeyer, but he&#8217;s still not very good.  Neither is Muskat.  </p>
<p>If Theriot hitting 5 home runs in may is what got Telander to write the article he did about the bigger picture then he just isn&#8217;t very smart.  I don&#8217;t really think it matters why he wrote it.  I think it was because of theriot and you don&#8217;t, but the end result is the same: it proves Telander is an idiot.  </p>
<p>If he wrote it for the reasons you suggest then he&#8217;s an idiot because he hasn&#8217;t the foggiest clue about sample size and somehow compared what Theriot is doing to that of Bonds and McGwire and A-Rod and Manny.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think telander is smart enough to do what you suggest.  His past wok suggest someone who isn&#8217;t very bright and someone who has no understanding of the game.</p>
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		<title>By: Ace</title>
		<link>http://www.bleachernation.com/2009/05/16/ryan-theriot-is-either-on-steroids-or-doesnt-have-a-sense-of-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-1288</link>
		<dc:creator>Ace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 23:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bleachernation.com/?p=2150#comment-1288</guid>
		<description>I agree with a lot of the substance of what you&#039;re saying, MB, but obviously we just totally disagree on the point and tone of Telander&#039;s article.

I might be giving him too much credit, but the veiled idiocy in the article, to me, is intentional.

I&#039;m glad to hear that fans are getting past the steroid thing - it&#039;s just a matter of time, and it&#039;s for the better. But the thing is, when a guy like Manny Ramirez (regardless of how suspicious we should have been) tests positive, it&#039;s huge. It brings it all back. And it sucks.

Oh, and I&#039;m with you on the guys who get paid to write about the Cubs. Some are good, some are merely ok, and some are terrible and make me wish one of the major publications would stumble onto this here web site sometime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with a lot of the substance of what you&#8217;re saying, MB, but obviously we just totally disagree on the point and tone of Telander&#8217;s article.</p>
<p>I might be giving him too much credit, but the veiled idiocy in the article, to me, is intentional.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad to hear that fans are getting past the steroid thing &#8211; it&#8217;s just a matter of time, and it&#8217;s for the better. But the thing is, when a guy like Manny Ramirez (regardless of how suspicious we should have been) tests positive, it&#8217;s huge. It brings it all back. And it sucks.</p>
<p>Oh, and I&#8217;m with you on the guys who get paid to write about the Cubs. Some are good, some are merely ok, and some are terrible and make me wish one of the major publications would stumble onto this here web site sometime.</p>
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