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Another source says (1) the Tampa Bay rays are “certain” to trade Matt Garza this winter, and (2) probably to the Chicago Cubs, according to Ed Price.

Unfortunately for Cubs fans, the Rays really like Andrew Cashner, Brett Jackson, Chris Archer, and Hak-Ju Lee – in other words, literally the Cubs’ four best young pieces. Would it take all of them to get Garza? Of course not. Would it take at least one of them? My guess is the Rays are going to put the screws to the Cubs to try make that happen.

  • Raymond Robert Koenig

    Hendry should not trade with the Rays. They know how to build an organization. He doesn’t. They’ll take advantage of that.

    • Ace

      It’s a matter of who blinks first – do the Cubs need Garza more than the Rays need to move him?

  • Serio

    If Hendry trades any of these guys im out. Im done. I would rather have all of these guys than Garza

    • http://none@none.com eryk

      I agree with you they shouldn’t give up any of this players. Because he is blocked at the major league level by Geo Soto, I would give Robinson Chirinos or Welington Castillo is a package for him. Others I think the cubs could consider trading are Jay Jackson, Casey Coleman, Junior Lake, Justin Berg, Esmailin Caridad, Steve Clevenger, or Tony Campana. I think of the players I mentioned that it would take 2-3 of them to acquire Garza.

  • Jeff

    I read earlier this week they wanted Archer and B.Jackson, but then later it was mentioned they wanted Chirinos. Personally, I think that those three could be too much, but Garza could possibly be worth it if the AL to NL success comes with him.

  • Larry

    If the Cubs get Garza does that end their pursuit of Webb?

    While I would really like to see the Cubs acquire an arm like Garza for the next couple of seasons, I would be very hesitant to pay too much for him. They are finally in a spot where the farm system is about ready to start paying off for the Cubs, would hate to see them lose all of their potential studs in one or two moves.

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  • Bob

    Jackson is not going to be a star; Lee plays same position as Castro & Cashner a reliever. I would trade all of them for Garza. I would include Archer OR Casher, not both.

    • Ace

      How are you so sure Jackson won’t be a star? And even if he won’t be a star, what if he could be an above average CF for years?

      The fact that Lee and Castro currently play the same position is of no moment, given that a move to 2B is easy enough for one of them, should Lee make it to the bigs.

    • Jeff

      With the way Hendry has balked when the Rays and Royals asked for Cashner and Lee, I would say those two are as close to untouchable as it gets right now, it seems they were hesitant to give either/both of them up for Adrian Gonzalez too.

      Jackson is just the type of top of the order/ good glove center fielder the Cubs have been missing since Kenny Lofton had that really good run at the end of 2003, and we saw how good that team was and what kind of effect he had on the lineup. I know they are minor league numbers, but to think that Jackson could be batting leadoff and putting up a line of .297 BA, 12hr 66rbi, 14 triples, 32 doubles, 30 steals, 103 runs, 73 walks, and a .395 OBP. It’s kind of eye opening when you see how bad the Cubs are at the leadoff spot compared to the best teams in baseball.

    • http://none@none.com eryk

      If the Cubs had half a brain they wouldn’t offer near what your proposing. Hak-Ju Lee has star potential as he could prove very fast and projects in the future as a gold glove caliber short stop while hitting for a high average. Brett Jackson too could end up a star. His speed is ranked the same as B.J. Upton but he is three year younger and he should hit for a strong BA and above average power. As for Cashner or Archer, both of them project to be better than Garza and have potential to be MUCH better. Now, are you really that dumb that you would offer that for Matt Garza, a pitcher with a 3.91 Era last year and a pitcher who’s career lowest Era is 3.69 which was 4 seasons ago.

  • KB

    Jackson is the guy I’d trade. The Rays are sick to death of BJ Upton, so they might be seeking a CFer.
    Someone mentioned that they’re leery of Hendry trading with the tampa brass, and I thought the exact same thing; they may be the smartest team in baseball…exactly the type of front office that could take advantage of Jim’s…uh…let’s be kind and call them deficiencies.

    • BT

      You mean because of all the terrible trades Hendry has been taken in, right? . Like the Pierre deal. And….umm….well….what about…..no….. Well the Pierre deal. Oh wait, the Infante deal was bad. Actually, getting him was good. dealing him was bad.

      Hendry has plenty of deficiencies. Getting taken in trades is not one of them.

      • Raymond Robert Koenig

        If you think Hendry makes good trades, you have another think coming. He’s not a good “trader”, he makes bad FA signing after bad FA signing, he’s responsible for (what most impartial observers call) a below average player development system and his payroll is ridiculous. All in all, as far as I can see, he’s failed in every aspect of his job.

        • BT

          Bad free agent signings has no bearing on his ability to trade. IMO he has at least 5 trades in which he clearly won, probably more.

          -Grudz, Karros for Hundley
          -No one for Aram
          -Choi for Lee
          -Fontenot for Sosa
          -Murton for Harden
          -No one for Garciaparra
          -Bradley for Silva.

          I’m sure there are more. Some of those are salary dumps, some are even contracts for even contracts, and one was even a sell off, so you can’t claim he only makes deals where the Cubs are ripping off a team with no money.

          You can hate Hendry, you can think Hendry deserves to be fired and that would be completely justifiable. You can’t make up the idea that he is a bad trader, because he’s not.

          • Raymond Robert Koenig

            I’m not comparing his FA signings to his trades. I am saying if you consider what YOUR idea of a GM’s job is, and you’re honest with yourself, you’ll admit that Hendry fas failed miserably.

            • BT

              Dude, I’m not claiming Hendry is a great GM. I’m saying there is no reason to be afraid that he will make a terrible trade, because his trade history is fairly impressive. You can keep arguing about other facets of the GM job he has done, but you aren’t arguing with me, because I’ve made no claim other than the fact that he has been good when it comes to making trades.

              • Raymond Robert Koenig

                I’m not afraid. I stand by my opinion. Hendry’s a terrible GM. Whether or not he trades for Garza, he’ll lose. Either the players he trades will excel for the Rays or he won’t make a trade and his “prospects” will continue to flame out in his system. You might think he’s a good “trader”. His record speaks for itself.

                • BT

                  Wow. This is off the charts bizarre. who are you arguing with that keeps claiming Hendry is a good GM? Because I haven’t said that once in this string.

                  I showed you his trading record. I’ve showed you a number of trades that worked out in his favor. Other than the Pierre trade, what evidence do you have that Hendry is a particularly bad trader?

                  PS, if your response is going to be that you think Hendry is a bad GM, AGAIN, I’m not arguing that. I’m arguing only that his trading record seems pretty good.

                  • Raymond Robert Koenig

                    Check MLBTR. They’ve shown every GM’s trading history. Every trade. Not just their good ones. Then, let it go. Unless feel that you have to have the last word.

                    • BT

                      I don’t have to have the last word. I just get annoyed by people whose argument is “you are wrong because I say so”, and back it up with nothing. And guys who argue endlessly points that I haven’t argued. And guys who make four replies to something, then tell me that I’m the one that needs to let it go.

                      That’s my last word.

          • miggy

            BT, those trades that you mentioned do not help your argument claiming Hendrey knows how to pull off a good trade, and the one good trade you did mention, one that actually got us into the playoffs, you forgot to mention Kenny Lofton. I would too be skeptical about trading with the Rays. It reminds me of when I was growing up and seeking out kids who didn’t know much about baseball but had baseball cards and trading crap while getting all of their good cards.

  • http://none@none.com eryk

    The Cubs need to be careful not too give up too much talent for a guy who had a 3.91 Era, this isn’t Zack Greinke, its Matt Garza. I don’t think the cubs should give up any player of star potential, maybe no one even in the top 10 cubs prospects. Certainly not any of the players Tampa showed interest in. The highest I would offer them would be a package with the likes of Jay Jackson, Casey Coleman, Junior Lake, Justin Berg, Esmailin Caridad, Steve Clevenger, or Tony Campana. Not all of them but of that group trade the ones that entice the Rays the most for Matt Garza. My guess is that it would take possibly 2-3 of these players for Matt Garza.

    • Bric

      I don’t see this trade happening at all. The Rays are just using the Cubs’ best offer to raise the bidding from other teams. Also, I doubt the Cubs would get anything from anybody for Caridad, Lake, or Campana. Look at the lack of interest Marquez Smith got in the rule 5 draft. Hendry’s views of his minor leaguers are much higher than the scouts’ of most other teams. My guess is if the Cubs waived Caridad tomorrow he wouldn’t even be picked up.

      • Ace

        I agree that some of the middle tier prospects are overrated, but I don’t think anyone disputes that, overall, the Cubs have one of the best systems in baseball.

    • http://none@none.com eryk

      I don’t have faith in Josh Vitters. I think if the Cubs were able to trade him and Robinson Chirinos or Welington Castillo and maybe Casey Coleman for Garza, I would be happy.

      • Bric

        I’d take that trade too but I don’t think the Rays would. On paper it looks like a fair deal for both sides but the Rays obviously want at least one guy back that they know will play in the majors which is why the keep asking for guys like Archer, Lee, or B. Jackson. Even though there’s huge potential for all three of Coleman, Chirinos, and Vitters, (and you could include Dolis, Carpenter, and J.Jackson in this category) there’s no real evidence that any of them will make it in the bigs. If this trade is going to happen it’s gonna have to include either Cashner, Archer, B.Jackson or Lee with a couple of good prospects as well.

        • http://none@none.com eryk

          Would you trade Tyler Colvin or Brandon Guyer in a package for Garza, along with a package with the likes of Casey Coleman, Chirinos, Jay Jackson, or Josh Vitters. Would the Rays be willing to take some combination of these players for Garza?

          • Bric

            I’d make that trade, too, but again I don’t think the rays will. Vitters and Guyer both belong in the category of possible big time player but not for sure. I think we can offer 10 of these guys and the Rays would still say no. It’s clear that Hendry and the Rays want the same thing- cut payroll and fill holes without significant dropoff in talent. I just have a humble opinion but from what I’ve see the GMs are only trading for sure fire minor leaguers. The economy’s tough and these guys aren’t looking to stock their farm systems, they’re trying to sell tickets. So with that being said, I don’t think the Rays will make the trade unless Archer or Cashner (maybe Dolis, Coleman, and McNutt) is involved. They’re going to want a #1arm for an arm. Plus a couple of prospects because none of these guys have actually accomplished anything in the bigs. For Hendry it boils down to grab Garza now or wait for Z, Silva’s, and Dempster’s contracts to expire and replace them with these kids.

  • steve

    lee is far off from the majors. i wouldnt mind giving him up. but none of the other big names. you have to give something up. i would trade them Lee, either Chrinos or castillo, and maybe another lower level prospect.

  • Serio

    BOB,

    I think you have a mental disorder or mental illness to say Jackson is not going to be a star and as far as Lee and Castro playing the same position HAVE you ever thought thought Castro could play second???? Lee SS?? I wouldn’t trade any of those guys

  • Serio
  • http://none@none.com eryk

    Prospects Not To Trade:
    Brett Jackson
    Chris Archer
    Trey McNutt
    Andrew Cashner
    Hak-Ju Lee

    • Serio

      eryk,

      I agree

    • mike

      I agree 100% with avoiding including B Jack . He can fill a hole the Cubs have had since Lofton left and will likely be able to fill it at some point next season. Lefty hitter with some speed who can hit leadoff. Given the pop in his bat I would eventually see him moving down the lineup. I would also avoid including Lee.

      To get a player like Garza, you’re going to have to give up something. Only because I think the Cubs have screwed up his development and value by bringing him up as reliever would I be willing to include Cashner. He was 6-1 with a 2.05 era, .947 whip, 42 ks in 57 ininngs between AA and AAA as a starter. This is why Jim Hendry is a horrible GM. He does not have a long term perspective on his prospects.

      Compare him to Jeremy Hellickson of the Rays who will likely be one of the top ranked prospects in baseball this year. He was 23, 12-3 with a 2.45 ERA , 1.173 whip, 123ks in 117 innings at AAA last year.

      If Hendry would have left Cashner alone, we’d likely be talking about a top 25 pitching prospect you could use to get a guy like Greinke.

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