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Query whether, in the face of rampant rumors that the Chicago Cubs are looking to unload, obsessing about Prince Fielder’s 2012 destination is a worthwhile endeavor. Given his age – 27 – it remains plausible, if not likely, that the Cubs will consider pursuing Fielder even as they rebuild. And the national pundits continue to list the Cubs among Fielder’s most likely suitors. Is that reflective of information they’ve received from anyone other than Fielder’s agent, Scott Boras, though? Hard to know.

Speaking of Mr. Boras, it seems like he’s finding tough sledding in trying to secure a blockbuster contract for his big-time free agent first baseman. Just listen to how hard he’s working to “sell” teams on Fielder.

“When Prince Fielder came to Milwaukee, check out the first year, what they were drawing,” Boras said when asked what was taking so long for Fielder to sign. “Then, when you see that number [2.21 million], see what they’re drawing now in Milwaukee [3.07 million]. And they’ve also got a new [local] TV contract . . . Look at where the franchise was then, and where it is now.

“You absolutely see two factors with superstar sluggers — they bring retention value and attraction value. Retention value — look at [Rickie] Weeks, [Corey] Hart, [Yovani] Gallardo. They all stayed in Milwaukee. When you have that guy in the middle of the lineup, it’s, ‘Oh yeah, I want to play with him.’ Jeff Kent won an MVP hitting behind Barry Bonds. Ryan Braun won an MVP hitting in front of Fielder. That’s the modality.

“. . . [A player like Fielder] gets you the [local] TV contract, he gets you a higher franchise value, your attendance goes up . . . These players pay for themselves. They make you a lot of money. Owners understand that. They reach out to you. Prince is not in any way a normal free agent. Owners will move players off their teams that already occupy positions to get him. Even though they have a player at the position, this is the move to bring in a franchise player.”

I’m not saying Boras is wrong – there are some kernels of truth in that hard sell – but, man, oh man: he’s working hard. And it’s obvious that he’s not seeing the offers that he’d like to see.

And Boras continued, seeming to speak directly to teams like the Mariners and Orioles (and, dare I say, Cubs?), who might not yet be ready to compete, but could be there in a couple years.

“Prince covers all the spectrums. You don’t just have to be a competitive team now [to sign him]. You can be a club that will be competitive in a couple of years. If you sign this player, it will always be a good investment, no matter what position you’re in.”

In other words: Prince and I recognize that the “win now” teams might not be willing to pony up the eight to ten year deal we want, but maybe some of you bottom-feeders can swoop in. It’s about the money, after all.

Boras continued from there, explaining why it is necessary for owners to meet with Fielder before making a final offer, and talking about Fielder’s surprising leadership ability. He’s an agent who always works hard for his clients, but I’m not sure I’ve previously seen such a confluence of (a) a big-time client, (b) a dearth of rumored offers, and (c) Boras publicly extolling the virtues of the big-time client so loudly.

It seems clear that there is a significant disconnect between what Boras thinks Fielder should get in a contract, and what teams are willing to offer. Usually Boras gets one team to step up – it only takes one – but maybe this time is different. Maybe Boras will find that the market stays soft, and no matter how many praises he sings, he’ll have to recommend that Fielder take a shorter-term deal.

  • CubFan Paul

    ‘Maybe Boras will find that the market stays soft, and no matter how many praises he sings, he’ll have to recommend that Fielder take a shorter-term deal’

    Or, maybe Boras will accept market rate money for 1B ($22million, Teixeira, Gonzalez). I’d bet everything that the Cubs would sign Fielder to 7 guaranteed years at $21-$23million if Boras’s ego could take the hit.

    • CubFan Paul

      and for the record I don’t think *any* of Prince’s *suitors* can afford that deal, none of them ..Jays, Os, Mariners, Rangers and definitely not the Nats

      Its Cubs or bust and Boras knows it..

      • http://cubbiekingdom.wordpress.com hansman1982

        How hilarious would it be if come ST reporting time Fielder has still not signed a contract, or he takes a 2-3 year deal…I am going to get a sad and pathetic enjoyment out of it if that happens.

        I really hope that Theo started at 5/$125, Boras laughed in their face and as the market for Fielder crumbled they said they would do an additional year, but for the same overall money.

        • CubFan Paul

          that’s kinda been my prediction all along: 6yrs/$138M ..Fielder isnt worth A-Rod money ($25-$28million) over the long term, nor do i think he’s worth $25-$27million on a short term deal. Overpay him because he’s fat?! no, Theo&Co. will wait til the contract demands come down to market rate.

          Fielder isnt signing a short term deal anywhere. he’ll fire Boras before that happens

          • http://cubbiekingdom.wordpress.com hansman1982

            Here is what I postulated back on Dec 10:

            Years 1-5 Guarranteed – $25M – $125M total – leaves $55M

            Year 6 – Ramirez Option (team option that Fielder can override) – $22.5M – $147.5 – leaves $32.5M

            Year 7 and 8 – Team Option with Vesting clauses – here is where you protect yourself – you make the vesting options achievable but still put yourself in position to have a productive first baseman.  $16.25M – $180M

            As of today, years 1-5 would be $22M per, year 6 would be $20M and I would make those vesting options much more difficult to achieve or cut out years 7 and 8 all together and make year 6 a straight – Team Option with tough vesting clauses.

            • CubFan Paul

              so we’re thinking along the same lines ..it just sucks that Pujols at 32 got ten years because now, Boras sees gold, yes gold Jerry.

  • http://cubbiekingdom.wordpress.com hansman1982

    I don’t care who gets him, what the contract is and what he does with that team…I am certaintly enjoying the Boras-enfreude

  • Ol’CharlieBrown

    “Prince covers all the spectrums. You don’t just have to be a competitive team now [to sign him]. You can be a club that will be competitive in a couple of years. If you sign this player, it will always be a good investment, no matter what position you’re in.”

    Sounds like he is speaking directly to Theo and Jed with this statement. Everyone knows the Cubs are not competitive right now, but plan on being in a couple of years. Not only that, but something tells me that both Boras and Fielder would rather him sign with a big market team like the Cubs, as opposed to smaller market, less popular, equally uncompetitive teams, like the Mariners or Orioles.

    • cls

      I agree 100% with your conclusion. I feel like he is talking directly to Theo and Ricketts, saying “Yes he will be a bit more than you want to spend, but he will put butts in your seats while you rebuild.” Glad we seem to be holding the line though. He makes me nervous at any deal over 5 years.

  • FiveFifty

    I’m in complete agreeance that if the Cubs can snag him for around 5 years, it would be a win-win situation, rebuilding or not.

  • bluekoolaidaholic

    3 years, 2 more with incentives and/or options, 22k, fatty, take it or leave it.

  • tex134

    I think you hit the nail on the head Chuck. It sounds to me, that Boras is speaking  to the Cubs front office, knowing full well that we are rrrrrrrebuilding with a plan to try and be competative in the near future. I say if the right deal can be worked out go for it.

  • Deez

    I will admit…
    I’m loving that Jed & Theo are not sipping the Prince flavored Kool-Aid concoction being poured by Boras.
    Also, it’s pretty much 2012 & the 2nd best bat on the market hasn’t signed says a lot about teams & there willingness to dump $20M+/yr on any player!

  • Alex

    It would be great if the Cubs could get out of that albatross of a TV deal they have with Comcast and WGN. Fielder would make a lot more sense financially if the Cubs could get a new TV deal or start their own network.

    • CubFan Paul

      the only way they could get a new deal or start a network is if they already have Fielder. Boras is right, signing Fielder is a ‘game changer’

    • Alex

      The Cubs can’t get out of their deal with Comcast and WGN for at least 8 more years. Fielder will be WAAAY past his prime years by then.

      The Cubs don’t have the TV money that the Yankees, Red Sox and the Angels have. Even the Rangers will have their new TV deal kick in by 2015.

      • CubFan Paul

        im not saying that you’re wrong but theres no way Ricketts/Cubs stay in that tv deal for even half that 8yrs. Im quite sure they’re busting balls to either have that money increased or settling for an Opt out.

        TV revenue for the new Regime is a major priority …Ricketts owns 25% of CSN and with another leverage chip (Fielder) he’d get a new deal, in my opinion (quasi professional)

        • Pat

          Why would WGN let them out of the contract? They won’t. Like it or not they are stuck with that deal. If Ricketts was smart, he would have had the Trib void or shorten it as a requirement of the deal to purchase the team, but either he didn’t address it or they refused.

      • BetterNews

        Don’t mention the !@#%^&* word Comcast! If something needs blown up, it is that Company for sure!

    • Alex

      I hope the Cubs can get out of their deal. It frustrates me to no end knowing that the White Sox get as much in TV revenue as the Cubs do. The Cubs do way better ratings numbers than the Sox do in TV and radio.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2011/12/27/white-sox-owner-has-much-to-say-about-success-of-cubs/

      For a major market team, the Cubs come in woefully low in TV revenue (Thanks Tribune Company).

      Branding and positioning the Cubs for a new TV deal and opting out of the Comcast deal is easier said than done. And would still take several years. Even if the Cubs can opt out of their deal in 2 years. It would at least take another couple of years to get a network up and running.

      How effective will Fielder be by 2016 if the Cubs kick off their new network by then? And the Cubs would have paid Fielder at least $90 Million before that even happens.

      • CubFan Paul

        I know, but $90M is chump compared to a $150M-$200M/year new tv deal. And by 2016 as a Big Market Club we could be looking for a new 1B whether it internal or free agent ..Fielder is just a leverage chip that allows them to say “we have somehting worth watching”/of value

        • Alex

          The $150 – $200 Million TV deal won’t kick in until close to the end of the Fielder deal. By then the Cubs won’t be able to brand and market the team around his declining skills for very long.

          The TV rights that the Angels are getting to pay for Pujols and Wilson is kicking in now and not as a leverage chip for a deal that kicks in 4 years down the road. The Angels have their TV money now. The Cubs do not.

          Bringing in Fielder now won’t make much of a difference helping the Cubs chances of winning the NL Central for at least the next couple of years. I hope the Cubs keep building up their farm system over the next couple of years. Then sign free agents when they are close to being ready for their TV network, IF that even happens in the next 4 years. Then the Cubs can promote more prospects in the future and create a team that is consistently in the pennant race.

          • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

            I also tend to think “branding” around a player for a team like the Cubs is overstated. The Cubs are the Cubs are the Cubs. They’ll have a marketing angle whether they have a solitary star or not.

            To me, where the player part of marketing comes in is simply in whether the team is any good or not. A good team is easier to market. Fielder, in theory, helps that in the near term.

            • Toosh

              Bingo! Cub fans are CUB fans. There have been Cub fans since before Fielder was even born and there will be Cub fans long after his playing days are over. Boras is just doing his job. He’ll say whatever it takes to get his client the best deal.

            • Alex

              Branding and marketing are the positioning statements that Boras is using to entice teams to sign Fielder.

              The thing is that in the near term, Fielder doesn’t help the Cubs. Maybe helps them get a few more wins in the next couple of seasons, but then they drop a few places in the 2013 and 2014 drafts. Considering the Cubs were big on Bubba Starling in last years draft, 4 spots in the draft made a huge difference.

      • clark addison

        The WGN deal is grandfathered in, and made a lot of sense when the Trib owned the Cubs. What Ricketts needs to do is bail out of the CSN deal and start a Cubs network, like the Yankees. I’m sure ratings-wise, the Cubs far outdraw their partners on CSN.

        The present state of TV satellite and cable bundles is due for a huge shakeup. We’ll have ala carte programming, instead of being tied to bundles of channels we don’t want. Also, we’ll be able to watch on our computers and iPads. The Cubs need to be on the cutting edge of that revolution. Time is ripe for a Cubs Network.

        • CubFan Paul

          pow! ..what he said

        • Pat

          Not so sure about that. If people ae handing out 150 mil a year contracts, it probably just makes more sense to do that. Running a network takes quite a bit of money and resources. Plus, you need actual programming. Outside of a hundred and some games a year (since WGN has the rest), what is the programming going to consist of? The Kerry Wood game three times a day?

          Keep in mind that networks will overpay for sports deals (pay out more than the advertising brings in) to some degree because they can use some of the ad time to promote other network shows, increasing viewership and revenue for their full schedule. I don’t see that kind of return here.

        • Alex

          None of us know the legal ramifications of opting out. It’s easy for us to say that the Cubs should opt out of their deal with Comcast and start their own network.

          I would love for the Cubs to do this. Brett can vouch for that. My frustration with all of this is because the Cubs are locked in to a contract with Comcast.

          I don’t know what obligations the Yankees had to complete before they started their own network, but I’m sure they had to finish any TV deals they had before they could get their network off the ground.

      • BetterNews

        I’m getting sick! Reality has a way of doing that. But I still say Go Cubs Go!

  • MightyBear

    That’s Mr. fatty, please. I think you meant 22M. 22K will get you one AB, maybe.

  • Rancelot

    The way this whole thing is playing out, all signs point to Prince signing with the Cubs. Now, let me get this out of the way right now…this is a bias free analysis and based merely on feel. Boras wants the most bang for his buck (because we all know he is looking out for himself number one and then his client). Seattle? Are you kidding? Forget about being on the big stage and endorsements. I don’t buy Washington being a major player. Texas? Offense is the least of their problems. I really believe this is a game of chess between Boras and the Cubs and each party is waiting for the other to blink. From Scott Boras’ perspective, Chicago is the only place that makes sense when looking at the whole package.

    • Lou

      I agree with up to your comment about the Nationals. I think they are a major player because they want to draw more fans to their stadium. The Phillies are an aging offense that didn’t serve them well in the playoffs, the Marlins are up-and-coming but not quite there yet IMO, the Mets are a mess, and the Braves have their offensive issues. Getting Fielder would be a huge boost to their offense and they’re ready to compete now.

      • Rick Vaughn

        Nationals have to be kind of reluctant to give out another huge contract. After signing Jayson Werth at 126M over 7 years. Then watching him finish the year with an OPS of .718, while driving in just 58 runs. I do think they’re the frontrunners for Prince, but I can’t imagine they’ll bid against themselves. Boras is going to settle for much less, I hope. About time that guy gets brought down a notch.

  • aCubsfan

    A player is only worth what a team will pay him. The actions and comments of the GMs and others are that he is not worth a 8-10 year guaranteed contract. His body type and size say that he will begin breaking down in 2-3 years unless he is willing to stop eating and lose about 70 lbs. So why pay for someone who is going to break down long term. That’s why I believe his best bet is 3 year contract so he can show GMs he is still healthy at the end of the contract but young enough for another potential pay day.

    The other issue is that Prince has limited his landing possibilities by stating he will not go to teams his dad played for. Also, by wanting a ‘max’ contract he is limiting himself to only teams that can afford the luxury tax that it is going to take to get him. Boras out smarted himself, especially trying to tie Fielder to Pujols.

    Pujols made a very smart decision going to the American league where he can rest by playing DH. I believe that is Fielder’s best landing spot as well.

    To me it makes absolutely no sense for the Cubs to be tied to Fielder and Rizzo. If they get Rizzo why would they want Fielder and vis-a-versa. Furthermore, having a Fielder tied to 1st for 6, 7, 8, 10 years you are negatively impacting your farm system by placing a logjam at 1st. Who in their right mind would sign as a minor league player at 1st if they knew they were never going to see playing time with the major league team. It also goes against every word — and action thus far — Theo and Jed have said about building for the long term through the farm system.

    • Lou

      Yes but I think you’re predicating this on the idea that the Cubs WILL get Rizzo. The Rays may as easily get Rizzo by trading a MLB SP on their staff, a luxury the Cubs don’t have. Also, these are the games played by Fielder since 2006: 2006-157, 2007-158, 2008-159, 2009-162, 2010-161, and 2011-162. With all those games played, you could argue decline, but it’s impressive to me.

      • aCubsfan

        Lou…I am not talking about Fielder’s past number of games. I’m talking about his future capability of staying uninjured. He’s currently 27 and will be 28 next May 9th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prince_Fielder_crop.jpg if you look at this image you can see how his body is highly torqued and the pressures he puts on his right ankle and knee.

        Furthermore, he’s 5’11” and 285 lbs. By any medical description Fielder is obese. Carrying all the weight is going to catch up with him maybe not today or tomorrow but in the next 2-3 years it more than likely will. While he may be an athletic, his weight probably puts his body’s real age close to 40-45, so unless he takes about 70 lbs off he doesn’t have much more time before injuries beset him. Do we need another Soriano? I don’t think so.

        With respect to Rizzo, the latest discussion/rumors has Tampa getting him and ‘flipping’ him to the Cubs. If that’s the case why then sign Fielder? If the Cubs are really serious about Fielder, why all the talk about Rizzo coming to the Cubs?

        IMO, Fielder doesn’t fit Theo/Jed’s long-term philosophy.

        • Lou

          First of all playing a 162 game season is no small feat. Have you done it? Nope. Didn’t think so. Second, I’m getting tired of all the fat comments about Fielder. I find them a wee bit on the insensitive side. Third, don’t believe for a second that Rizzo would be flipped to the Rays and then sent to the Cubs. It’s either DOWN to the Rays or the Cubs–meaning a)you’re reading too much into this report and b) one or the other of those teams is going to get Rizzo, which means the Cubs may be on the outside looking in!

          • BetterNews

            You’re the only Lou that makes sense. Who is that other imposter? Oh, I remember, Lou Cub.

            • Lou Cub

              Imposter eh?? LOL I’ve been called a great many things before, some good some bad..but never an imposter!!

              • BetterNews

                Maybe I got you wrong. Prove it. Shouldn’t be hard.

          • aCubsfan

            It doesn’t matter if I have played 162 baseball games in a season, it whether or not Fielder can consistently from today on play 140+ games a season. And, based on his current size and age, I question his capability of playing that many games.

            They used to say ARod was going to be the type of player to be able to go it the long haul, but the past 3 years he has missed a tremendous amount of games. To the point he had to go to Germany to hopefully get healed, but only time will tell.

            Insensitive? I don’t believe pointing out the obvious is being insensitive. He’s obese and his obesity is going to catch up with him health wise. It always does.

            Whether it is Rizzo or possibly a Votto in the future, there are better options for the Cubs then Fielder, especially when it is going to take the Cubs 2-3 just to start being competitive in their own division.

            • Lou

              Actually, he used to weigh more. Talk to any Brewers fan and they’ll tell you he’s not obese—I still that’s mighty condescending of you. We know, you don’t like Fielder as a ballplayer! Nuff said! Oh yeah, he’s also 27–not 40, but glad to know you’ve got a crystal ball to see in the future. Boy, sure wish I had one of those. As for ARod, maybe getting off the roids hurt his health…who knows…do you? Also, it does matter whether or not you’ve played 162 games in a season because then you’d what a grind it is. You’re comments are kinda dopey, aren’t they?

  • Gcheezpuff

    I say pass, Reds are in win now mode because they know they won’t be able to extend Votto. He is a free agent in 2 years which is right in line with when the Cubs should be competitive. Why waste the money now when in 2 years you’ll have nearly all the crap money off the books and can make the best offer to Votto then and probably have developed enough pieces around him. I’d rather see them try to develope or trade for a young 1st baseman and if that fails make a play for Votto in 2 years.

    • JasonB

      ^^^ This – 1,000,000 times this

      • Jim

        Yup I agree with that too.

    • Lou

      Rather see prospects develop first and then go and sign a FA like Votto. I’m not sure those prospects will be ready by the time Votto hits FA. Cubs could have another 1b by that time and Votto will be 30 at the start of that contract and likely almost as an expensive as Fielder and wanting the same type of deal in terms of length of contract.

  • Oswego Chris

    I was thinking about writing a “Debunking Boras” post but this kind of says what need to be said…..his options are very limited…think of it just in terms of these three categories,,POSSIBLE, DOUBTFUL AND FO F#$ING WAY:

    POSSIBLE (8) Cubs,  Blue Jays, Mariners, Marlins…Nationals, Dodgers,Orioles and Rangers(depending on who you read)                            

    VERY DOUBTFUL, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW- Brewers,  Diamondbacks, Rockies                               

    NO FU#$ING WAY!  (15) White Sox, Royals, A’s, Twins, Indians, Yankees, Red Sox, Padres, Phillies, Mets, Pirates,  Reds, Angels,  Astros, Rays,

    so you are looking at very small market….

     

  • CubsFanBob

    Wasn’t there some talk about Fielder being pissy about runners on base while at bat stealing bases ? No thanks…

    • Toosh

      The Cubs don’t like to steal or walk. Clogs the bases.

  • jandersonjr81 father of Caden

    I agree with Gcheezpuff. I prefer a 4yr/110m if we do sign him. He keeps fans in the bleachers if nothing else. By the end if year 4, Vogelbach will either be ready, or a bust, at which point we can extend Prince or let him walk.

    I prefer we not sign him, however. Trade for Rizzo, and if Vogalbach develops, we can trade Rizzo, who would still have a year or 2 of arbitration, or trade Vogalbach for an Allstate level player.

    We could also play Lahair for 2 year, go after Votto, then build a package around Vogalbach(if he develops) that will bring a frontline starter for a championship contender.

    I prefer either the latter 2, but would settle for the first under those terms.

  • Toosh

    The Cubs would be in good hands with Allstate.

    • YeOld17

      I work for allstate….. and no they would not haha

  • Kurt

    Geez Brett,

    You accused me of drama yesterday in my “blow it up post” about the chicken little aspect of that viewpoint (one man’s drama is another man’s attempt at humor) yet today it appears that your hedging your bets toward my drama laden post?

    Trying to cover all bases?

    Recall, you disagreed with most of my post, though to your credit that was in the deep dark past of…..yesterday.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      I think you need to re-read what I wrote in my comment responding to you. I disagreed with SOME of what you said. The drama, to which I referred, was your opening suggestion that anyone who believes the Cubs should “blow it up” (whatever that means) is stupid. You can make good points without denigrating others. It’s a skill I’d suggest you work on.

      As to the substance – I have no idea what you’re talking about. My position is, has been, and remains consistent: Fielder makes some sense for the Cubs on THEIR terms. A short-term deal, no longer than five years. And that’s true regardless of whether they deal Garza (which I support).

      • RoughRiider

        Bravo !!!

  • die hard

    If he comes to the Cubs, one condition should be that he does something meaningful for Chicago’s impoverished neighborhoods by way of donations to boys and girls clubs, schools, community centers etc equal to 10% of his salary so as to give back to the community paying his salary. Also, once a week in June, July, and August he should donate 50 tickets to a game for impoverished kids so they can appreciate baseball and be fans as they grow up.

    • CubFan Paul

      He, like all Big money players do All of that already (taxes) through charities and foundations (a la Wood, BigZ, Dempster, Soriano)

      • die hard

        But would prefer it in writing and 10% at least…

        • MoneyBoy

          from Cot’s:  “Soriano to donate $25,000 annually to both United Way & Cubs Care”.

          Okay, it’s but $50,000 per year on a $19mm annual contract, but it IS in the contract.

          It’s preposterous for anyone to dictate or insinuate that anyone be contractually obligated to donate anything.  Even Warren Buffett has been criticized in some corners for his notorious “Giving Pledge.”  Andrew Carnegie had it right when he wrote his goal: “I’m going to make money for the first half of my life and give it all away in the second half.”  He did just that.

  • Dustin

    I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Garza trade front is close to coming to a conclusion and the recent Boras/Prince talk is likely pointed at the Cubs. If the Cubs do end up getting a young 1B in the Garza deal (Rizzo, or Moreland from Texas, etc.), Boras knows he is probably out of luck as far as big market teams go.

    • Rick Vaughn

      I would imagine he’s pretty nervous right now. Down to a few teams who can’t afford his asking price. I take pleasure in watching him squirm like this.

  • Kurt

    @ Brett, you said

    “The drama, to which I referred, was your opening suggestion that anyone who believes the Cubs should “blow it up” (whatever that means) is stupid”…”It’s a skill I’d suggest you work on.”

    Never wrote the word STUPID. I’m “skilled” at not setting up a straw-man by accusing someone of saying a word (stupid) they didn’t say, and then knocking it down.

    I’m also “skilled” at handling words so that they mean what I say.

    Words have meaning so I try not to put words in another’s mouth.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      Clearly I’m being “stupid,” so perhaps you can enlighten me as to what you were implying with this preamble to your original comment:

      “Heavy sigh, roll of eyes, tsk…tsk… prefrontal lobe fully developed (over 54) I.Q. well above 98 (which is the norm, not 100).”

      • Rick Vaughn

        Sounded somewhat condescending to me. I took offense. Cried a little.

        “I’m also “skilled” at handling words”

        The guy is definitely in love with himself. That’s sweet. We should all be so fortunate.

  • Kurt

    @ Diehard

    I make about 120K a year.

    What should i do with my money?

    You know….to spend it correctly?

    By the way how much do you give to the impoverished children of your neighborhood?

    How many tickets do you give away?

    It’s pretty easy to tell someone else what they should do with their money, isn’t it?
    It allows you to look compassionate at their expense.

    • Rick Vaughn

      Heavy sigh, roll of eyes, tsk…tsk…

      Boy, this is interesting. Please, tell us more.

      • MoneyBoy

        Rick … is it 9pm already?  <g>

        • Rick Vaughn

          Thank god not yet! I’ve got the day off. It’s nice seeing some actual conversation on here. Late night ramblers are wearing me down. I try to avoid them, but I get a few beers in me and I can’t help but stir the embers.

          • Jeff

            Who you talkin about, Willis? :)

            • Rick Vaughn

              I forget which one of you I don’t like, Jeff or jeff. :)

              • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

                Folks need avatars. Get them. Go to gravatar.com, set yours up. Be an individual, and a hero.

                • Rick Vaughn

                  No need to go to extremes Brett. Maybe just a name change to UppercaseJeff. Or a fake name. We could always use a Pedro Cerrano or Roger Dorn.

                  • Jeff

                    I like my name, Uppercase Jeff just doesn’t sound right.

                  • http://bleachernation.com loyal100more

                    or a willie mays haze

    • JR

      As soon as someone says how much money they make a yr. most people tune them out. That’s great ur doing well financially, but u lost all credibility with ur money statements.

    • JasonB

      I never realized that a profession as a neanderthal paid so well. Too bad your “skills” don’t include tact, class or a reasonable clue of how to conduct yourself socially.

      • Rick Vaughn

        Boom, JasonB with the heavy right hook! Take that clown down!

  • die hard

    Mariners looking for #3 or 4…..why not Dempster for Smoak and 2 AA prospect pitchers…then don’t have to waste so much ink over Fielder

    • Cedlandrum

      What have you been smoking? They aren’t going to include Smoak for Dempster let alone 2 AA pitchers of any worth. Smoak was the 13th best prospect in all of baseball going into the 2010 season. He hasn’t been great yet but he is only 25. If we get two AA pitchers it will be of the Chris Rusin and Brooks Raley type. Your best luck is to get one high upside pitcher that is a bit underrated like the Cubs got with Archer. Talented but hadn’t put it together.

    • JR

      Do you really think Dumpster could get that type of return? Plus no way he waves no trade to go to Seattle..

    • Mick

      We’d be lucky to get the AA prospects, let alone their starting 1B. Who’d eat the $14 million cash, who would we get to replace Dempster in the rotation, why would the Mariners give up anything to try and compete this year against Texas and Anaheim? C’mon man.

      How’s this trade for ya? The Cubs trade Marlon Byrd and Jeff Baker or Blake DeWitt to the Nationals for Adam LaRoche and Steve Lombardozzi. The Nationals would get about $3 million in salary relief, their starting CF and a backup 2B while the Cubs would get a backup plan at 1B for LaHair and more importantly another MLB ready 2B. We could then use either Barney or Lombardozzi as a piece of a trade to get Rizzo from the Padres.

      • JR

        Dumpster is an overpaid turd. Everyone knows that. Just like Hendy’s other signings.. He doesn’t care about winning. He is content chilling with the rebuilding Cubs, getting paid, and being mediocre at best…

        • Deer

          So you want to increase payroll to get LaRoche who will sit the bench and backup Rizzo? I think that just creates more problems unless we can spin LaRoche to another team.

          • Mick

            Yes, in order to get Rizzo it sounds like the Padres are looking for middle infielders. So, in order to get our hands on one we should trade Byrd. The taking on Adam LaRoche is just another incentive for the Nationals to do the deal because it allows Morse to start at 1B and Bryce Harper in LF and also possibly opens up some payroll flexibility for them to sign Prince Fielder. Without all of this incentive I doubt the Nationals would trade Lombardozzi.

            • Lou

              But isn’t LaRoche more expensive than Morse. I’ll take Morse over LaRoche. I’m not sure an injured player or one coming off a prominent injury is what this team needs right about now. Also, Byrd’s not a middle IF.

              • Mick

                Lou, you’re missing the point. LaRoche is terrible, oft-injured, and overpaid BUT he’s only got 1 year left on his deal so we could stomach him for this season. We couldn’t get Morse and Lombarozzi but we may be able to get Lombardozzi if we take on LaRoche. Then, *evil laugh* we turn around and use either Barney or Lombardozzi to get Rizzo, hurray! Are you picking up what I’m laying down? Do you hear me clucking Big Chicken?

                • Lou

                  Umm…not exactly getting it. No. So, we trade prospects for a deal that includes a terrible, oft-injured and overpaid player. Ummm…still not getting it.

        • Gcheezpuff

          Dempster has been the most consistent starter since signing that contract. He also is a good clubhouse guy and a class act. I also read an article the other day discussing his value, which the writer made an excellent case for Demp being worth exactly what his contract has paid him. Unless I am mistaken, at one point he restructured his contract allowing the Cubs to have some payroll flexibility…. But yeah I could see how an excellent team mate and hard working consistently good pitcher could be perceived as a turd? Demp will have more trade value at the deadline and I wouldn’t expect a trade before then, especially if they move Garza.

      • JR

        Mick, I do like the Nationals scenario u threw out there.. Makes a lot of sense.

  • RoughRiider

    It seams to me that some fans want the Cubs to make trades just for the sake of making a trade. The chances of the Cubs winning anything this year is with pitching and better defense than they’ve shown lately. Trading away a pitcher such as Dempster, one that has seen better years but still has some stuff, at this point is probably not wise for a couple of reasons. The biggest being if he pitches well he will be far more valuable, in terms of return, at the trade deadline when teams are desperate to bolster a pitching staff. He also brings a veteran presence to a young pitching staff that is hard to quantify but is valuable none the less. The same can be said for a player like Byrd.

    • JR

      Big Z can bring that veteran leadership u speak of. He is a true role model for the younger players…

    • Mick

      I agree with your analysis that the Cubs’ could get a better return for Dempster at the trade deadline but if like you also said that we don’t have any chances at winning this year than what’s the point to keeping him or Byrd? If we don’t deal them now we’ll lose them to FA and get nothing in return. Plus, without them around we have an even better chance at losing thus increasing our draft position. As far as a veteran prescence, to a young pitching staff, what pitching staff? Zambrano is a psycho who won’t be back, Dempster is in the final year of his contract, Garza’s likely to be traded, and Wells should just keep his drinking hole closed and pitch. For the rest of the pitchers, I’m not so sure I’d want them following in Dempster’s footsteps. Moving Byrd would be a little tougher to deal with because we don’t have an immediate replacement for him. Jackson needs at least a half a season in AAA and Reed Johnson is meh. Dave Sappelt is who we got with Travis Wood and is listed at CF so, throw him in there!

  • Sam

    Bottom line the Cubs are a Big City Market that charge it fans Big city prices. I am not gonna throw 400 to 800 dollars per game down the drain so I can see the cubs lose . I can watch the cubs lose on TV – I can listen to cubs lose on the radio and if need be i can get on the internet and read about the Cubs losinG.

    I am all for rebuilding and i think Quality good teams can improve its farm system and it big league club the same time that is one reason why I thought we overpaid for lil theo. If the Chicago Cubs are finincally in trouble then maybe Chicago just got the wrong owner?

    Rebuilding is a joke! Oakland is always in rebuilding mode and they rebuild well if not the best but they do not compete.
    Either by design or default DO the Cubs need to shed salary becasue they are heading towards money problems and/or the free agent market scared them or nobody wanted to sign with Cubs this year that is above average.

    Ticket prices are too high at Wirgley Field that i can be that same 10 year boy that fell in with the Cubs while watching Jerry Morales basket catches and Bill Madlock hustle for a single . SO as a fan i am stuck in a situation I love the Cubs but i cant throw away good money to see them play ,but i can use other media devices that equally and painfully see them lose .

    If the cubs want to rebuild then by all means rebuild and do it well. BUt if Ricketts / Cricketts(the only sound one will hear in the bleachers come aug/july/ june/ ) want to field a team that is not striving for a title then why pay the admission of a ticket ( and in this case 4 tickets)

    • Kansas Cubs Fan

      Alright man, we understand you aren’t going to pay for expensive tickets. Geez.

    • http://bleachernation.com loyal100more

      agreed… painful and expensive to be a fan of a club rebuilding. as a fan the only pain that comes close is the 84 NLCS!

    • http://bleachernation.com loyal100more

      you know why not give the fans a player to watch… id be alot more content to fallow a guys homer total for the season rather than the loss total of the team…remember dawson in 87? MVP on a last place team, but boy did dawson give the cub faithful a reason to tune in.

  • Toosh

    ’03 was bad, too.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      Toosh breaks out the avatar! Nice.

      • http://bleachernation.com loyal100more

        how the hell do i do that i cant figure it out… the avatar i mean?

  • Mick

    Bill Madlock and Jerry Morales played together for the Cubs from 74-’76. In those years the Cubs finished 66-96, 75-87, and 75-87. If those are the teams that made you fall in love with the Cubs I’m pretty sure this year’s team won’t dissapoint you.

    • Sam

      Like i said i was ten years old and the price of bleacher ticket i think was 2.25 bus fare was 25 cents a blue batting helmet was 4 dollars . My parents gave me an allowance that I did work for but it was generous at 20.00 and i save my money to go to cub games – nothing wrong with that.

  • http://bleachernation.com loyal100more

    this years club needs an andre dawson. something to get excited about and watch games even though your club just keeps loosing.

    • Mick

      How about a Shawon-O-Meter?

      • Kansas Cubs Fan

        Have you guys never heard of Starlin Castro?

        The 21 year old stud that currently plays shortstop for the Cubs?

        The kid that led the National League in hits last year.

         

        • http://bleachernation.com loyal100more

          castro gets me pumped for the future and hes a great tallent but you know to be honest nothing really satisfies like the long ball…never has never will… i can track castros progress and growth in a box score.

        • BetterNews

          Kansas–That’s a double negative in your sentence. Never and a question mark. Shouldn’t it be ever?(LOL)

          • Rancelot

            Well, I guess it is after 9pm in London. Here we go!

  • http://bleachernation.com loyal100more

    thats what im talking about. cubs fans are content with very little its tradition…but dont rob us of our one guy to get behind and enjoy the loosing season with some level of a thrill!

  • 2much2say

    Better yet, a Fielder tracker. Track his HR total against the Cubs whole team total

    • Mick

      Or….what if we sign Prince Fielder and every time he hits a HR our players stand around homeplate like in the picture for this message thread. Except, after all of our players collapse when Fielder jumps on homeplate we count how many players actually get up and in what order. My prediction:

      1 Darwin Barney (God that guy is a hustler)
      2 David DeJesus (no wonder everyone’s talking about him leading off)
      3 Marlon Byrd (Conte’s magical cream works again)
      4 Starlin Castro (would have been up faster had he not been daydreaming)
      5 Bryan LaHair (this guy just might stick after all)
      6 Travis Wood (look who made it past the 5th)
      7 Alfonso Soriano (he’s up but strained a hammy putting forth 75% effort)
      8 DNQ Ian Stewart (broken wrist)

      • http://bleachernation.com loyal100more

        sign fielder for the fans. pay your loyal fans with a fat guy that hits the ball a mile… and ill get over not contending for a few years… kind of the booby prize

  • http://bleachernation.com loyal100more

    that would work for me i mean im not selfish to want something to watch rather than just a rebuilding team loosing day after day right?

    • MikeL

      The Cubs did this in the 80s when they signed Dawson. Let me ask: Would it be better to not sign Fielder and suck for a couple of years in exchange for long term success, or sign Fielder and not contend for several years? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

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