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After Ryan Dempster’s third consecutive dominant start, one that had many important eyes in attendance (and, no, I don’t just mean mine), you could expect that the weekend/Monday rumor mill would focus heavily on Dempster. Indeed it did, but there are a few other bits to share…

  • I was told that there were scouts crawling all over Wrigley Field to watch Dempster’s Friday start, and Nick Cafardo hears the same thing. Cafardo seems to expect Dempster to be moved soon, with the Dodgers and Blue Jays the most likely suitors.
  • Speaking of the Blue Jays, they seem to be getting desperate for a starting pitcher, though I’m not sure if they’re willing to pony up for a top-liner like Dempster. Instead, they appear to be focused on a backup plan like Jeremy Guthrie from the Rockies (he of the 7.02 ERA), for whom Ken Rosenthal says the Jays are in some stage of negotiations. The Blue Jays have lost Brandon Morrow, Kyle Drabek, and Drew Hutchison in the span of a week, so you can understand them wanting a starter. But targeting Guthrie sounds more like a because-we-have-to type of move, rather than a we’re-still-going-for-it type of move (which is what Dempster would be). Rosenthal does note that the Jays are exploring deals for other starting pitchers besides Guthrie.
  • Jay Jaffe argues that the team Dempster faced on Friday – the Red Sox – actually make the most sense to land him. Eric Seidman agrees.
  • Joel Sherman, who’s pretty much right about everything that has any connection to the Northeast, says the Yankees view Dempster as not a clear upgrade over any of their current starters (wha?), so they aren’t expecting to be interested. Then again, Gordon Wittenmyer says the Yankees are interested in Dempster. Then again-again, Dave Kaplan talked to a couple scouts who say the Yanks prefer Matt Garza to Dempster (wouldn’t most teams?). On the balance, I’d say the Yankees probably aren’t terribly interested in Dempster.
  • Ken Rosenthal says the Cubs are willing to include a big chunk of cash with Dempster to improve the caliber of the prospects they receive in return (Buster Olney hears the same). Dempster makes $14 million this year, and is still owed around $8 million. Rosenthal also notes that the Orioles have been scouting both Dempster and Matt Garza.
  • Cafardo also hears that the Cubs are “primed to move” Garza, who would be the perfect piece for an AL East team. As I’ve said before, whether or not you support the Cubs trading Garza, they could stand for him to string together some great starts – it could make the return on a trade nicer, or it could make the Cubs more confident in signing him to an extension.
  • Andrewmoore4isu

    I’d expect the rays to make a move too

    • Michelle

      As a Rays fan (& Cubs fan b/c I followed Pena & (still follow) Garza) I don’t think the Rays will make a move. We’re all set on starting pitching & we have to worry about Longoria getting healthy again.

  • Jumbo

    Is there ever a time when a team wouldn’t like it’s ace to string together a few nice starts?

    • Shawon O’Meter

      During a lost season leading up to an arbitration year? Might save them a few bucks.

      I kid, kinda.

    • SirCub

      Ask again in a few months…

  • TonyP

    I hope we end up with kids that actually turn into quality Major league players.  So many prospects end up as busts.  I hate trading away proven talent for highly regarded prospects that do not pan out.

    • Sinnycal

      Dempster is in his mid-30’s and a free agent after this season. How could you possibly “hate” the idea of bolstering the value of the farm system at the price of a few months of Demp pitching in a historically bad season?

      • calicubsfan007

        Sinnycal: While I agree with what you are saying, I think that Tony is trying to say that he doesn’t like the risk that comes with the prospects. He “hates” the risk, not the idea. He really is trying to say, I think, that it seems highly illogical to trade away a proven talent for players who may or may not make it in the majors.

        • TonyP

          Thank you Cali, that was the point I was trying to make.

           

           

          • calicubsfan007

            And Tony, love the pic btw. Loved that cartoon.

            • TonyP

              My Ex-girlfriend’s daughter loved that carton.  I used to love watching it with her and listen to her giggle all the way through it.  I downloaded this picture so I could print her a copy of it and it was the only pic on my laptop when I set up my account.  So that is what I used for my Avatar.  :-)

              • calicubsfan007

                Tony: I am 25 years old, but if someone put on that cartoon right now, I would be giggling like I was 10 or so again.

                • TonyP

                  Yeah,  I’m 39 and I used to giggle right along with her.  Cartoon Network took it off the air so it isn’t on much anymore.

                  • calicubsfan007

                    Tony: I think its on boomerang. I can’t get it with cable. Stupid networks. Maybe you can get the series on DVD?

                    • TonyP

                      Yeah it was Boomerang.  It used to be on at 9:30 every night.  I just looked it up and it is now showing on Sat and Sun evening.

        • Sinnycal

          Prospects are a valuable currency any way you slice it. Don’t think of it as trading proven talent for prospects that could bust. You’re assuming that the only way for a trade to work out is if the returning prospects one day play at Wrigley. But a strong farm system opens the possibility of bigger trades when we eventually become buyers.

          • TonyP

            I can understand that part of the equation.

          • hansman1982

            And it assumes that you will be able to keep “Player X” until they become non-effective. In many trade scenarios the selling team can no longer afford the asset they are trading away (such as Garza).

            That isn’t the case with the Cubs but if Theo feels that this is the peak of Garza’s trade value (or even pitching value) then he would be wise to sell high.

            To branch of what you are saying, I also think of the 2 birds in the bush analogy. Those wanting to keep the bird in the hand because we may not catch one of the two in the bush aren’t looking at the possiblity of selling that bush to someone else who has a recently dead deer to give us.

            • TonyP

              Lol,  I get your point Hansman.

              • hansman1982

                I get what you are saying, and I am on the fence with trading Garza, I just thought of that analogy of an analogy and wanted to share.

                • Sinnycal

                  I go back and forth on trading vs extending Garza myself, but there’s no question with Dempster. If you can sell high on a player in his 30s with months–not years–remaining on his contact, you do it. Solid prospects added to the system are absolutely worth more to the team now than having Dempster pitch on a 100 loss team and walk at the end of the season.

      • TonyP

        For the reasons I stated already.    I can see moving Demp because of his age but I expect that we will get some prospect(s) that never amount to much on the big league level.  We traded away a lot of “quality” prospects for Garza.  What have they done for TB?  Let me know when Archer, Lee, Chrinios, Fuld, or Guyer become solid starters in the bigs.

  • Sinnycal

    Not too interested in a) the Yankees farm system or b) seeing Demp pitch for them, anyway.

  • calicubsfan007

    I want to trade with Boston to get their prospects. If anyone knows these prospects like the back of their hand, it would be Theo and McLeod. I trust that they would make a dynamite deal.

  • http://bleachernation loyal100more

    any word on a possible sori trade…dejesus,lahair,soto? i understand that our two best pitchers are the most talked about trade pieces… but is the rumor mill stirring with anyone else on thee team?

  • Cubbies4Life

    So… who’s gonna pitch for us the rest of the season? Marmol as starter, then Marmol as reliever, then Marmol as closer? I hope all these brilliant trades pan out at some point in the not too distant future (sigh…).

    • http://bleachernation loyal100more

      maybe we take a look at some of that “depth” we got in the off season… maybe big V comes back up… maybe wells… damn any way you look at it we are gonna suck even more than we already do… hope the prospect haul is good! MAN I CANT WAIT FOR THE OFFSEASON!!! GO BEARS!!

      • calicubsfan007

        @loyal: Is your username pic of Dick Butkus? He’s the best linebacker ever in my book and loved him in that UPS commercial from a few years ago.

        • http://bleachernation loyal100more

          that it is my friend… the most rabid beast ever to play an organized sport!

          • calicubsfan007

            @loyal: And best motivational speaker too!

          • MightyBear

            ILLINI ALUM TOO.

    • calicubsfan007

      @Cubbies4life: I don’t want to even pretend to have Marmol as our starter. Ugh… The MLB would have to start implementing the run rule.

      • Njriv

        Haha oh the Marmol starting experiment was torture, just like the James Russell one.

        • http://bleachernation loyal100more

          and volstad

        • calicubsfan007

          Njriv: Didnt Russell say recently that he wants to be a starter again? I imagine that being followed by a collective “NO!” by anyone listening/reading his comment.

          • Njriv

            Haha I hope not!

      • hansman1982

        He would have an interesting CG line though:

        9 IP, 13BB, 20K, 2H

        • http://bleachernation loyal100more

          the game would take 8 hrs and we would ultimatly loose by one run

        • djriz

          you forgot about the 360 pitch count.

  • Pat

    At this point, I’m leaning more towards a trade with Garza. I would not want them to sign an extension until he figures out how to get the ball overhand to first. No one is really exploiting it yet, but in a playoff series I would expect that to change.

    • calicubsfan007

      Pat: Doubles off of bunts to the pitcher, right? (=

    • Dave

      Garza has had success in the post season so I wouldn’t see that being an issue.

      • Pat

        Yes, but he didn’t have that issue at the time. The yips started last year and have gotten worse this year. I’m guessing he can get past them, but would not want to sign a big money extension until he does.

    • cubbiesOHcubbies

      PLAYOFFS????????? Playoffs……… WHAT?!?!?! Playoffs?

  • http://bleachernation loyal100more

    lets try marmol behind the plate… sure as hell cant pitch!

    • calicubsfan007

      @loyal: I second that!

    • Cub Style

      … He was a converted catcher :D

  • http://bleachernation loyal100more

    i guess in order to catch… he’d have to be able to find the plate…there goes that idea

  • http://bleachernation loyal100more

    i really hope we dont bring up what little pitching talent we have to early as a result or as a fix… mcnutt, or maples getting shelled gets us nowhere

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

      If the Cubs did trade a starter and did not receive a major league starter in return, the promotions to Chicago would likely come from a pool of Volstad, Rusin, Searle, Lopez, and Raley.  Wells or Coleman could be turned back into starters as well.

      I doubt McNutt will come up this year, and there is absolutely no chance of any scenario in which Maples pitches anywhere remotely close to the majors in 2012.  He change planes in the same city as a major league stadium, but I wouldn’t put strong odds on even that.

      • Beer Baron

        And what if they have to put a starter on the DL? Then they probably bring up….Scott Maine? WTF? (I assume Coleman or Wells is in the rotation now)

        • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

          Maine would be fine.  So would Beliveau.  Rowland-Smith might be an option.  I wouldn’t be opposed to giving Cabrera ten days in the majors.

  • Cubs Dude

    Some guys play well with trade chatter, others don’t. Garza doesn’t seem as mentally sharp or nearly as effective as last year. Trade him or sign him asap. It’s not doing the Cubs or Garza any favors with all this stuff dragging out since December.

    • calicubsfan007

      Cubs dude: That I do agree. He seems to be crumbling under the pressure. But in all fairness, that is a ton of pressure to have to bear since December. He always has to do well, or face scrutiny for hurting his trade value. No one deserves that kind of pressure at a job.

      • Cubs Dude

        Exactly, and it’s not fair to him and hurting his trade value. Frankly, I am sick of it and don’t care either way. I just want it resolved. I do have a gut feeling that Garza is wanting too much to be extended though and possibly a NTC.

        • calicubsfan007

          Cubs Dude: From what I have heard, Garza wants the NTC and Theo’s pretty much saying hell no. Garza wants to be paid like CC, although he playing more like Volstad right now. Too extreme with Volstad?

          • Cubs Dude

            Ha.. Yeah Cali probably a little extreme with the Volstad comparison. I love Garza, but he is not an ace. I bet Garza is traded before deadline, hopefully his value won’t be to jacked!

          • Leroy K.

            Just a little, let’s see a good comparison…Phil Hughes? LOL….J/K

            • Cubs Dude

              Nice try Leroy, lol. I like Garza a lot more than Hughes. I just look at Weavers 5 year 85 mill. deal he took and to pay Garza a lot more than that with a No Trade seems insane, even in these new economic times.

          • calicubsfan007

            Leroy and Cubs Dude: For starters, Garza will probably be overvalued, if anything. Someone like Detroit will over pay. And secondly, Mr. Hughes is a helluva comparison Leroy. He is inconsistent enough for the comparison to work! LOL

  • Leroy K.

    The obvious difference being, I don’t remember ever getting any “good” prospects in exchange for a couple starters. It will be interesting to see which direction the new regime goes. However, I haven’t had a “real” reason to complain yet.

  • mak

    I haven’t heard any buzz around trading Maholm, who has pitched pretty decently and is on a 1 year deal (with club options). I think it’d make a lot of sense to package him with Demp or Garza to the Blue Jays who need depth (one 1 SP makes little sense, as they’d still be a long shot with so many injuries). Obviously the Dodgers, who only really need a front line starter, wouldn’t have any use for Maholm.

    Thoughts?

    • Cubs Dude

      Mak, I don’t think Maholm would bring back much at all. I guess he’s been ok at times, but he would be pretty low on most playoff teams wish lists.

      • cubs217

        I think he has almost no trade value, but if the Jays are interested in someone like Guthrie, why not Maholm? If the Cubs get any sort of a return on him and his one year deal I think a trade would be a good option.

  • http://bleachernation loyal100more

    i think theo earns his money making these types of moves…and shows his value as a negotiator with these upcoming trades. i have a feeling we’ll look back at this moment as the when we got player X and player Y, and just look at how they have contributed to the teams success! theo make us all believers… work your magic and bring us some players!

  • http://www.viewfromthebleachers.com Norm

    Dempster to DL, nothing serious, but this means no trade soon…

  • http://bleachernation.com lou brock lives

    Dempster goes to DL with right LAT tightness. Soto activated

  • calicubsfan007

    In the tune of “Ghostbusters”:
    The Blue Jays: “Our starting pitching is going down the toilet. Who ya gonna call?”
    Anthopoulos: ” Jeremy Guthrie!”

  • Nick Nesler

    Demp to dl. Right lat issue.

  • d.

    Welp. So much for getting something of value for Demp. Ugh.

  • Serious Cubs Fan

    U got to be kidding ME!!! This season is a disaster!! The one few bright spot were going to be getting good prospects back in these trades. Dempsters value just went into the shitter now! WTF!!!

    • Njriv

      Not really since they have a day off after this series, he’s only going to miss one start or so.

      • calicubsfan007

        Njriv: We are having a panic attack right now. It prob isn’t even that serious, but our hearts stop whenever we see the word DL next to a guy like Demp.

        • Njriv

          Well Muskat said it’s not considered serious. Maybe they DL’d him so he won’t get hurt as suggested by Kaplan ( I believe that’s a little out there) but you never know.

          https://twitter.com/CarrieMuskat/status/214815048412045312

          https://twitter.com/thekapman/status/214817161846341633

          • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

            Not really.  That would not surprise me at all.

            Say the Dodgers have agreed to acquire Dempster, but they decide they also want to pick up someone else… maybe Darwin Barney (making this up as I go).  In exchange for Barney, the Dodgers give the Cubs a list of seven names and say “Pick any two.”

            The Cubs would need time to check out those seven names.  They won’t even agree to a deal on a PTBNL basis unless they know that the package coming from the Dodgers is good enough.  That means the Cubs need to get their scouts out there to evaluate those names, wherever they happen to be.

            But there’s another problem.  Many of the minor leagues are heading into their All-Star breaks.  That just means it will take the Cubs longer to pick up the data they need.  The solution?  DL the players that have already been agreed to with a complete non-injury, then do the scouting and bargaining.

            It is far from an unlikely scenario.

            • GoldFinch

              Makes perfct sense.

            • Kyle

              I consider it an extremely unlikely scenario.

              That’s the kind of game-theorizing that usually goes on in people’s minds and on sports message boards, but never really happens in real life.

              The biggest problem being that Dempster can’t pitch for anyone at all until July 1 now. That’s an awfully long time to sit on a trade like this, when they could have just hurried up and got the scouting done in the next few days.

              • Kyle

                Also, isn’t that what PTBNLs are for?

              • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

                Not if the leagues those players are in aren’t playing over the next few days.

                The Midwest League is off until Friday.  The Southern League is off until Thursday.  The California League is off until Thursday.  If the Cubs were interested in the number three starter for Ranch Cucamonga, for example, he would likely not have another start until Saturday.  If the Cubs wanted to see him twice, now we’re talking next Thursday.

                And all of the sudden, we are right on top of that 14 day mark for activating / trading Dempster.

                I doubt this is a terribly likely scenario, but due to the timing of the DL stint, the scouts in Wrigley for his last start, and the MiLB All-Star breaks, it would not surprise me in the slightest.

                • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

                  Whether it’s legit or not, it’s a hell of a creative theory.

            • scorecardpaul

              This was my thought (well not all of that) but to me this is good news. A team can put a player on the DL any time they want. I see this as a trade is getting closer to happening not further away.

      • Serious Cubs Fan

        Njriv: How do you think this looks to other teams looking to get Demp? They still might want him but the Cubs lost some serious negotiating leverage. They might have lost out a pretty dang good prospect a team was willing to trade because of this. It is probably an over reaction right now but you honestly can not sit there and say this doesn’t hurt the cubs leverage at the negotiating table.

        • Njriv

          Yeah it does, but its not in the shitter.

  • calicubsfan007

    Oh Demp. Why?

  • Jp

    I think Luke is right on with that theory. The Dodgers or whomever won’t want Demp out there taking a line drive off his forearm in a meaningless game for the cubs when he’s what they’ve finally got a piece in their rotation figured out. Retroactively when would Demp be able to come off the DL?

  • MightyBear

    I agree with Luke. This a very creative front office.

  • Cub Gone Wild

    I do not want to trade with the Dodgers. We got garbage in return in trades for Theriot and Lilly. I do admit that is probably Dempsters landing spot or possibly Baltimore. I don’t care if we trade Garza now. I was against it but he hasn’t been all that impressive as of late. Might as well get a couple players for him. I don’t want to trade Barney. He isn’t a super star but he plays second base well and is a good enough dp partner for Starlin. I am ready to see Reed Johnson sent off to where ever. I want to see some talk about trades other than Dempster and Garza. What about Soto? Do you guys think Baker has any value? Can we at least get an A ball player with some potential? Nobody will take Johnson. I am ready for Theo to clean house. I don’t really expect to get this big haul coming back because we don’t have that much value. I just want to see a very changed ball club the second half.

  • Cub Gone Wild

    I would like to see Soriano in LF, DeJesus in CF and LaHair in RF and Campana as a late inning defensive replacement and base stealer. Rizzo at 1b, Barney and Castro up the middle, Valbueno looks good at 3b so far. If we are going to make a trade we need to get a real good 3B. Package Dempster and Vitters for a real 3B. Then cut Stewart loose. IMO he is not part of any solution. I don’t mind if Volstadt comes back up to pitch out of the pen. He is not a starter and has no future in the majors as a starter. He can’t get past 5 innings so put him down as a 2 inning guy and forget about it.

  • atfinch

    What are chances Dempster is traded, does not sign long-term with the team he’s traded to then comes back here for a discount for maybe 2 years? Thoughts?

    • Kyle

      The chances are slim but not impossible. It’s something that gets brought up by fans of every team when their player is likely to be traded in the last year of his contract, but it rarely happens.

      • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

        All of this. Dempster might be the closest thing to an exception, but it basically never happens.

  • Kyle

    I really wish we’d traded Garza in the spring. Missed a great sell high chance there. I think we’re going to be very disappointed in the return this July for a 4 ERA starter who we’d hyped ourselves up into thinking would net a huuuge haul.

  • Drew7

    Steve Stone is the biggest douche ever to grace the boob-tube.

  • Jp

    You know I really liked Stone back in the day but it sure seems like woman scorned since going to the “good guys”. He was the man at calling what the next pitch would be or should be… Part of that second guessing people is what got him canned

    • Jim L

      He always called for a slider low and away, he was bound to be right once in a while.

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