I cannot stress firmly enough that this is just one report, based on one source, which might not ultimately be true. That said, it’s from Ken Rosenthal, who isn’t going to put his name out there on something like this unless it’s moderately solid.
And it’s not great news.
According to Rosenthal, for now, Ryan Dempster prefers to block the trade to the Atlanta Braves – which would have netted the Cubs Randall Delgado, a hell of a great return – while holding out hope that, in the next week, the Cubs can work out a trade with the Los Angeles Dodgers.
The Cubs and Dodgers previously stalemated on trade talks, presumably because of the Cubs’ insistence on the inclusion of top pitching prospect Zach Lee. If the Cubs are now forced to go back to the Dodgers, hat in hand, not only would they not get Lee, they wouldn’t get a value even coming close to Delgado.
In short, if true, this could be disastrous for the Cubs.
But that’s the rub: “if true.” Many other sources, including the Atlanta Braves, remain optimistic and hopeful that the Braves deal will still get done.
We don’t know the details for certain, but it had been reported that the Braves were second on Dempster’s list of preferred trade spots. The Dodgers were first.
Try to do your best not to rush to judgment here, though I know how this looks for Dempster. We don’t know what’s really going on yet.
UPDATE: Carrie Muskat reports that the claims that Dempster is holding things up because he was blindsided by the trade are not true. Instead, “Sources say he did know about the Braves offer, but was surprised at how public the deal became before he had made his decision.” Maybe he was surprised/angered that the deal became public because he knew he preferred to go to LA, and he didn’t want to look like the bad guy when he asked the Cubs to keep trying to get him to LA. Sounds like a pretty good theory to me.
UPDATE 2: Phil Rogers says folks in Atlanta are confused about Dempster’s reasons for not (yet) approving the deal. Rogers adds: ”He prefers to be on the West Coast, Rosenthal suggests, because he has family in Vancouver and wants his three children to be close to relatives while he’s away. It’s unclear if Epstein can re-engage the Dodgers in trade talks. They backed away over the weekend, unwilling to meet the Cubs’ demands for a player they might have only for the rest of this season, and that led to the agreement with the Braves. This could become quite a mess, especially given how happy the Cubs were to have agreed to a deal bringing right-hander Randall Delgado from the Braves.”
UPDATE 3: Mark Bowman, who broke the original story about the trade, writes that Dempster has not yet officially rejected the trade, but that the Braves are losing some confidence that he’ll ultimately approve the deal. And then Bowman started writing about other Braves options, like Zack Greinke, and I got very sad. I also got sad when he mentioned that the Braves deal also included “at least” one more minor league player coming to the Cubs.
UPDATE 4: A source tells Jayson Stark that the status of Cubs/Braves/Dempster should be resolved “shortly,” and the Cubs have stayed in contact with the Dodgers and Braves throughout this process. Tim Brown adds that the Cubs anticipated this possibility, and stayed in touch with the Dodgers about Dempster (and Garza) yesterday.
UPDATE 5: Remember Kevin Goldstein’s comment yesterday that a source told him there is a 24-hour moratorium on 10/5 players approving these trades. So, if the trade was agreed to around this time yesterday, we might be hearing VERY soon.
UPDATE 6: Doug Padilla says Ryan Dempster has arrived in the Cubs’ clubhouse, and adds this: “Deal w Braves looks to be dying on the vine.”
UPDATE 7 (at 3:19pm CT): Dempster has finally spoken with the media, which quotes you can track from the beat guys on Twitter. He said he’s weighing his options, and plans on starting tomorrow for the Cubs. When asked if it’s 100% certain he starts tomorrow for the Cubs, he said that is his “mindset.” He wishes he had more options (translation: wishes a Dodgers deal was on the table), and he might take as much as a week to weigh the decision with his family. He wasn’t blindsided by the deal – the Cubs kept him informed. He was blindsided by the fact that the deal leaked to the media before he had a chance to decide. Dempster says he hasn’t made any decisions (in other words, he’s not formally blocking a trade to the Braves yet).
UPDATE 8 (at 3:22pm CT): Are the Cubs really going to let Dempster start tomorrow? I understand if Demp wants his time to think things over, but, since the world already knows he wants to go to the Dodgers, and only *might* go to the Braves, there is NOTHING to be gained by starting him tomorrow. There is only something to lose.
UPDATE 9 (at 3:26pm CT): This tweet from Paul Sullivan stings: “Demp: Decision ‘gets harder when something that wasn’t supposed to become public knowledge becomes public knowledge.’” And he’s right – if you don’t see why, just read the comments for all the anger and vitriol. Unrelatedly, and, as I suspected, Dempster is open to an extension, but isn’t asking for one as part of the process.
UPDATE 10 (at 3:30pm CT): I respect Dempster’s right to take his time making a decision, but the longer this drags out, it just hurts the Cubs in so many ways. Maybe the Braves decide to move on. Maybe teams want to wait on making a Garza offer until they know what’s happening with Dempster. Maybe the market shifts strongly downward as more teams start selling. Maybe Dempster gets hurt. This isn’t a worst case scenario quite yet, but this is just going horribly for the Cubs.
UPDATE 11 (at 3:43pm CT): Dempster can say he might take this decision up to the deadline, but that won’t happen – the Braves will pull the offer long before then, because they’ve got to figure out what they’re going to do. The Cubs probably can’t wait that long, either. It’s pretty obvious what’s going on here: the Cubs lined up a deal with the Braves after talks with the Dodgers fell through. It wasn’t final, and it wasn’t going to be announced. The Cubs were going to take it to Dempster, and Dempster was going to say, “well, can you try to get a deal to the Dodgers first?” And the Cubs would go to the Dodgers and try to beat the Delgado offer, or at least get a comparable deal (fat chance without Zach Lee – and fat chance on Zach Lee). But, since the story broke, Dempster and the Cubs were both put in a crappy spot. Dempster now looks like a bad guy, and the Cubs have no leverage with the Dodgers.
UPDATE 12 (at 3:54pm CT): Dave O’Brien (Atlanta Journal Constitution) says the Braves are looking at other options while they wait on Dempster. We knew that would happen. He adds that the deal is neither officially nor unofficially off the table quite yet, though.
UPDATE 13 (at 4:18pm CT): Just great. From Mark Bowman: “Dempster’s decision to wait has led a number of teams to call the Braves today about their top pitching prospects. Teams seemed to have gained interest once they saw Braves might be willing to go for it all this year by dealing one of these prospects.”
UPDATE 14 (at 4:39pm CT): Jon Heyman says the Cubs have, indeed, re-engaged the Dodgers in trade talks. I doubt they ever really stopped. For now, the only leverage the Cubs have with the Dodgers – assuming Dempster isn’t open to going to Atlanta while L.A. is still in the picture – is by saying, “you don’t step up your offer, and we’re fully prepared to keep him, make him a ‘qualifying offer’ ($12.5 million) after the season, and try and get a draft pick.”
UPDATE 15 (at 5:08pm CT): Braves’ GM Frank Wren made some comments to the media, including saying that it’s not a good thing that this deal got out (blame your own front office, dude), and the Braves still have scouts all over the country scouting other pitchers. They’d like to acquire a pitcher before the break. For now, the deal for Dempster is not dead, and is in Dempster’s hands. Wren added that, even if word of the deal hadn’t gotten out, Dempster was still going to need time to think it over (per my earlier explanation, I take that to mean: Dempster was going to need a little time to ask the Cubs to try and make one last push to deal him to the Dodgers).
UPDATE 16 (at 5:54pm CT): Interesting comments from Chipper Jones, via Dave O’Brien: “People have got to want to come here. But it’s not over. I’m sure that when you’ve been in one spot for a really long time, being traded is a big adjustment, and there’s more than just the business of baseball at hand. You’ve earned the right as a 10-and-5 guy to pick and choose where you go. And family becomes a big part of the decision-making process. The fact that we’re in the Southeast and we train in Florida, all that stuff is a factor. So, bottom line is Ryan is going to make the best decision for him and his family. And if decides that he doesn’t want to come here, then that’s just something that we’re going to have to deal with and move on. These trades just don’t happen overnight. There’s days and days and weeks and weeks of communication between the two sides to try and get something done by a specific deadline. We were led to believe that this could happen, which is why we put the effort into it. Now it seems like that might not be the case. It puts Frank in a tough spot, but that’s why they pay Frank the big bucks. He’s got to have Plan B through D. I’m sure that if Ryan decides to stay in Chicago or go someplace else, Frank will have something on the back burner.”
UPDATE 17 (at 7:52pm CT): You’ll have to forgive me. The last two days have been a bit frustrating for me (though I’m not complaining!), so I had to step away for a bit to play some tennis. I’m blacked out from tonight’s game anyway. In any event, Jon Morosi tweeted earlier that “Source says there are ways for Dodgers to get Ryan Dempster from Cubs without surrendering Zach Lee.” You’ll forgive me for hoping that isn’t true, but, without much leverage, it sure could be. Also, BN’er Jim is at the game tonight, and he says Dempster hasn’t been in the dugout. Anyone else seeing that? It doesn’t necessarily mean anything, and, at most, might mean only that Dempster has been having conversations that require him not to be in the dugout.
I’m still holding out hope, as we certainly don’t have all the info. I will say I’m starting to wonder if this was intentionally leaked by Atlanta. Specifically that they and the Cubs were operating under good faith, perhaps Dempster did indeed say he was willing to go there, then when he exercised his 10/5 rights, they decided to release it to put pressure on him. Might explain why Dempster was so upset, why he would say he was ‘blindsided.’ He said no, didn’t expect it to get out, and then he ‘wakes up’ that a deal is there.
as i said earlier and was criticized by cubbiewubbie nation the guy is a big plastic phony piece of crap. once again nice going jim hendry.
10/5 rights is not the same as a no trade. So it really isn’t Hendry’s fault.
no, Hendry should have traded Dempster before he got 10/5 rights…or the trade deadline in 2008.
yes but in 2008 demp helped us get to playoffs so glad we didnt trade him
Hendry did provide that last deal for 4 years and $52 million dollars… Which, while Dempster pitched alright for the Cubs, seemed as steep at that time as it does now.
Why do certain fans bend over backwards to blame everything on Jim Hendry? I will never, ever understand this.
I blame Jim Hendry for your unwillingness to accept blaming Hendry for everything.
The thing is, that actually probably is Jim Hendry’s fault.
/mindblown
Hendry made many bad quotes.(signings above cost)
wait, who let you in the door?
MG just keeled-over
and I didn’t think anything could get the Dempster saga sidetracked …
WHOA!
Dempster sure isn’t one of them. He’s earned every penny of this contract and every penny during his Cub career.
i wish you were my boss a 500 pitcher with a 4.5ERA hes earned every penny in fact he probably can get in the hall quicker than ronnie. cub fans r a joke.
I think Hendry did a decent job… He gave Cub fans more playoff experiences than most Cub GMs… I simply disagreed with the Soriano, Zambrano, Dempster, Milton, and all those players he held onto until their stock hit rock bottom like Hill, Pie, Cedeno, CPat… I still think the acquisitions of ARam, DLee, Karros and Grudz were shots of genius… Randall Simon pickup was sweet…
If there are remnants of something bad Hendry did, I’ll talk about it. After all it’s been freshly swept under the rug… Hendry took the Cubs as far as he could. He didn’t seem to have a plan except win now, but failed to execute fully on how to win now.
I have no problems with anyone being critical of any given GM but I’m a little perplexed at why anyone would think Dempster (at any stage) was a bad move by Hendry. He’s been a very good pitcher over the last 3 1/2 years (and we only have this recent brouhaha because he has been good).
And Rich Hill… He was one of the top young lefties in the game until he got the YIPS. A) No one knows who is going to get Steve Blass disease (Hill had a 2.9 BB/9 the year before) and B) you KEEP players like that (ala Theo).
Can you give me an example of a GM you think is really good?
GM’s can be good even if they don’t win (an under-resourced GM in a smaller market). Theo was obviously a good GM. He certainly benefited from walking into a situation that A) had ready talent (with some key roid users) and B) had plentiful resources (able to spend through mistakes). Hendry was also a good GM. He was 3 for 6 in the Central until he had the budget squeezed. He never used that as an excuse but he isn’t the kind to use excuses.
Then again, you take guys like McPhail or Dombrowski who won in smaller markets but mostly failed with larger budgets. For me a good GM navigates his team to the playoffs consistently and then, unless you’re the Yankees, it’s a crap shot from there.
I’m pretty sure Rosenthal’s source is close to the Dodgers. And that this is an attempt to kill the Cubs’ leverage and get Demp on the cheap.
At least, that’s what I am hoping.
Hmm, thats an interesting thought. If you think about it that makes a lot of sense. If the Dodgers sent out a false report about Demp not agreeing it could just be a last effort to try to get Dempster cheap. Good idea on this whole story, hope your right.
It’s a nice thought, but don’t you think the cubs FO knows if he will be accepting the trade over anyone else. Why would they accept a low-ball offer based on a source in the media? They can just find out from Dempster himself.
That is all true. I didn’t mean that the Cubs would accept it, just that the Dodgers could be trying to do that.
I just don’t think it would be an effective for the dodgers to leak. It certainly could benefit them, but only if it was leaked by someone involved in the trade. (cubs, braves, or Dempster).
Did you really think that his own personal interests were going to be second to the “good of the Cubs”? He’s a great guy, but be realistic.
Of course not. But he shouldn’t have alerted the media that he’d accept a trade to a contender if it helped out the Cubs. If he hadn’t said that, I think the backlash would be less severe. Well, a little.
Yeah I think a lot of the anger is due to feeling duped when it seemed like he was willing to work with Theo and Jed on a trade that helped eveyrone. We were lead to believe Atlanta was one of his choices, why else would they waste time negotiating with them? And now when the Cubs hit a homerun of a deal Dempster gets cold feet. It is his right, but if you had just said the standard well we will see if they come to me with a deal then I think the reaction would be a little tamer. People would still be upset, but I think that is where a lot of the frustration comes from.
He could have said nothing and he’d still be getting lambasted. He owes the media nothing. Remember fan(atic)s care more about teams than players do. While we all wish he cared as much about the Cubs as we think he does, he doesn’t, nor should he. Save loyalty for your family, this is business.
I would be far more wlling to be on your side if he had said nothing.
I get so sick of hearing “family” trotted out as an excuse for selfishness, it makes me puke. If you mean that selfishness is human nature and that Dempster is not legally required to sacrifice one iota of self interest to help out the team that gave him a shot when his career was virtually over, then you’re right. But by the same token, I’m also legally entitled to my own opinion of him.
Is it not somewhat selfish, to ask him to put aside his obligation to his “family” and help out the team? It goes both ways. Dempster had done his fair share for the city of Chicago as well. We seem to be forgetting that.
Second…nothing is official.
You’re on a roll…
You’re right. It does upset me a bit. The man has daughter who is sick. Yes, I am sure Atlanta has well qualified doctors but there is more that goes into it than that. As a child, I spent a lot of time in the hospital and it’s important to feel comfortable. He has to do whats best for her and the rest of his family. I think he deserves time to make that decision and whatever it is we should respect it. I agree it is annoying to hear him say he will do whats best for the cubs, and then change is mind. But lets be real there is a little more at steak for him than the rest of us. Give him time to make the decision before bashing him for something that isn’t official yet.
If I make a couple assumptions, specifically that the Braves were on Dempster’s initial list and the Rosenthal source is accurate, I might change course on my plans if I was the Cubs. I would tell Demp the Atlanta deal is there, and they are open to a better offer from LA, but are shifting focus (to trading Garza, though I wouldn’t tell Demp that). Get the best they can for him, which if it happens to be LA, then it removes that landing spot for Dempster and maybe changes his mind on Atlanta (assuming the offer is still there). Certainly risky, and opens the door that Dempster doesn’t get moved, but if those assumptions are accurate, the Cubs just lost a lot of leverage here and they probably need to regroup.
Only the Cubs FO knows for sure, and I’m confident they will do what’s best for the Cubs.
I don’t think the Cubs leverage is completely shot- the Dodgers still need to do better than a comp pick, because the Cubs can keep him and offer arb. He will turn it down for a multi-year contract.
Good point BD. I still think this gets worked out…
We might have done this drill but the Cubs aren’t going to offer Dempster arbitration. He might take it and they don’t want that.
Sorry – Qualifying Offer.
Come on, guys. He wants to be in LA so he can be within 1,300 miles of his kids in Vancouver. Show a little compassion!
Hopeful for a Dempster to Atlanta trade. I was thinking maybe after Dempster heard he was traded and saw where the Dodgers wanted Garza he thinks he still has a shot at LA. He needs to realize he is 7 years older and doesn’t bring the same return the Cubs are looking to get.
Brett, you heard any more info on Garza and Dodgers?
From Jayson Stark @jaysonst “One source says status of Dempster-to-Braves deal should be resolved “shortly.” In the meantime, Cubs still talking to both Braves & Dodgers”
My thoughts if anyone cares is that Demp strings us along until at least Wednesday night or into Thursday and takes the deal with the Braves. This way he gets his swan song and gets one more start with the Cubs. So, he can say he’s holding out for this that and the other, and then just “suck it up” and take the best offer out there. In addition to that, if he has a great start tomorrow it’ll allow other teams to get one last shot at putting a package together and beating the Braves offer. So yes, I still believe this is for the best interest of the club.
with the cubs luck, he would blow out his arm in the start
ggaagagaggagaaagagag Brett can you delete this please?!?!!?!? I just had a seizure.
I hear Dempster’s negotiating a deal for his own ESPN special…
The Decision: Part 2?
If this is true…I will say the F word very loudly, and repeatedly.
Is this a joke?
What have i done in my life to have this type of thing happen to my team year after year after year?
I try to be a good soldier, but damn almighty….this is crap.
“I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend.” That song literally just came on Pandora as I read this haha.
Demp, you really know how to endear youself to the Cubs. Considering the Braves are your #2 team, this is a classless act. No Doubt about it.
Dempster, “Nothing to official to report. You will be the 1st to know.Thnx to all my fans for the support.” (2hrs ago). There is still hope.
I would put my money on him being a Brave by the end of the day today!
I hope you are putting too much money on it…
We’ll see
for the life of me why is this being played out in the media, I don’t think the leaks would be from the cubs fo they don’t say much if anything, I do hope it works out fr all involved dempsters a good guy , but get this done already
You Rock Ryan Dempster. You will always be #1 in my book. We don’t know the whole story.
Dempster needs to man up and take the trade.
Or we need to man up and accept that he will choose what is best for ALL parties.
What if he changed his mind? Is a guy allowed to do that? I went to lunch today intent on a hamburger, but when I saw the hot dogs, I changed my mind. This does happen in life. Luckily a bunch of buffoons weren’t standing there complaining because I “said” I was going to do what’s best for the hamburgers.
Is it “better” for a hamburger to be eaten or not to be eaten? I guess it depends on whether you’re an Aristotelian or a Darwinian?
Great analogy. You eating lunch and a major league baseball trade.
What I eat for lunch will actually have an affect on my life. The Cubs failure/success won’t.
True. Might I suggest a salad over the hamburger or hotdog though? Just looking out for your colon.
Touche ! I wish more people and posters would remember that.
Why spend the time that you’ve been given discussing a team you don’t care about?
Of course he’s allowed to change his mind. And I’m allowed to be annoyed by said mind change. No?
Or are only Ryan Dempster’s feelings valid here?
Yours and his are equally valid to me, neither matter. I want him to accept the trade, but if he doesn’t, it doesn’t annoy me. Guess I’m weird.
Really weird
My stance: everyone’s feelings matter.
Yours: no one’s feelings matter.
I’m fine disagreeing on that.
I went to the park today intent on catching my daughter when she jumped out of a tree. My friend said that he would catch her, but I told him and my daughter that I would definitely do it. My friend went home. About the time my daughter jumped, I decided that I wanted one of those hot dogs too. My daughter has three broken ribs and a fractured skull, but I was entitled to change my mind. This does happen in life.
Some decisions affect more than one person.
terrible analogy quintz. How about this. You spend all afternoon telling everyone in the office you are going to buy THEM hamburgers. You let them spend the whole day telling you what a great guy you are, and how much they love you. Then when you get to the counter, you decide you’ve changed your mind. THAT is why people are upset. Of course Dempster can change his mind, and of course he should do what’s best for his family, but it seems to me he let us believe that he was going to let the Cubs trade him wherever they felt was best because he wanted the team to improve themselves. And he seemed happy to take all of the congrats that came his way because of that supposed attitude.
Again, we don’t know that he has changed his mind, but if he has, that’s why I will be upset.
+1
What, you want ANOTHER hamburger? Greedy bastard.
Another hot dog. Please pay attention.
(I’m going to be shocked if anyone gets that reference, but they’ll dig it if they do.)
Damn. The server left out my angle-bracketed /Mark Knopfler tag.
The prank calls? Holy crap, it’s been YEARS since I remembered those..
That’s it… I thought for sure I’d be the only one who knew what I was talking about. …listened to on 18th generation dubbed cassette.
… dubbed from a friend of a friend of a friend….
Ugh.
Who knows what at this point.
I’m confident if Dempster is playing games, he won’t be welcome back by the FO or fans after this year. Which doesn’t sound like everything else he’s reportedly said about the organization.
Here’s to hoping it’s not true and he’ll be a brave before his next start.
Everyone needs to take a DEEP breath, step off the ledge, and just chill. Dempster has every right to veto every trade that Theo/Jed push his way, and my best guess is that it is the 24hr moratorium holding things up. The Jayson Stark and Dempster tweets which were referred to on here give me hope.
Honestly, I wish they would make some deals with the Nationals.
If I step off the ledge, I don’t think I’ll be chilling. I’ll be screaming.
I think that depends upon which direction you step.
It bothers me that Demp is using his Dempster Foundation Twitter Account as a “platform” to announce his updates on this situation, almost like his own version of “The Decision”. Bush league isn’t it?
No. LeBron went on national television to make an announcement everyone already knew. He was bashed and has been since then. Kevin Durant made his contract known on twitter. No one said anything about Durant. Dempster is doing nothing wrong using twitter to make announcements. Better then having him go on CTL and saying he is taking his talents to LA.
Absolutely!
That’s his twitter, and it’s the quickest and easiest way to communicate directly with fans without playing telephone through the media. How is that bush league?
Lebron wanted to leave Cleveland…
Dempster wants to stay in Chicago…
Lebron made “The Decision”
Dempster is “The Indecision”
They are not the same…
hmm, I don’t know. Sounds like the Cubs are doing what Demp asked so far. Tried to trade once to LA, didn’t work for us. Now, after we tried to trade to his #2 team, he’s a little fussy. The street works both ways Demp, but please, by all means—let us know how happy you are when you announce to the world that you’ve agreed to join the Dodgers
but yes, in hast, this is not The Decision, nor Bush League I suppose
So, are we positive that the trade to the Braves would involve Delgado? I may be a day late and a dollar short…
Pretty much certain, yes.
Maybe he’ll hold a press conference and announce that he’s taking his talents to Venice Beach.
here we go
Wait, did Vancouver move? Last I checked, it was over 1200 miles from LA. Its actually further from LA than Atlanta is from Chicago. Like 500 miles further. Either Dempster is geographically challenged, or that part of the story is BS, too (although it was Phil Rogers who wrote that, so maybe he just assumes the Pacific Ocean is like Lake Michigan and going from LA to Vancouver is just like heading up to Milwaukee).
As the crow flies, its 2242 miles from Atlanta to Vancouver BC…….and 1080 miles from LA to Vancouver.
How many times does Dempster plan flying home during the next 2 1/2 months? I guess baseball players have a lot more spare time than i thought during the summer…
It’s revenge for the same thing that happened with Atlanta and Fred McGriff.
UPDATE 5: Remember Kevin Goldstein’s comment yesterday that a source told him there is a 24-hour moratorium on 10/5 players approving these trades. So, if the trade was agreed to around this time yesterday, we might be hearing VERY soon.
f5.f5.f5.f5.f5.f5.f5…
i think alot of people hendry for his moves but atthe time he made them we was all squelin at signin big names he did look wat he brought at deadline in 03 its nt his fault sori n others didnt live up to expectations now on our farm system………….. ill be the first to wee loudly at his decisions
Wot wuz tht?
Anybody else think Brett set this whole thing up to increase the hits on his site?
*twists mustache*
Don’t let on heh heh heh…It’s working !
^ uh huh
I’m not upset at Demp, even if he nixes the deal. I just got my hopes up …after it was announced by almost every credible source out there…and I’ve gotten my hopes up since I was 10….Im 43 now.
Geeez, you’d think i was still 10 the way I obsess about every little tidbit of info I get about a dang baseball team.
Alas, it is MY baseball team…my Cubs…and I’ll be right here obsessing till I die.. I guess
Ha.. Same boat here, I totally hear ya. My wife thinks I’m crazy
Demp better not screw the cubs. What happened to making sure the cubs got the best return Demp?