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Only in this feckless Cubs season could they have a benches clearing incident that amounted to little more than a war of words between their bench coach and the Nationals’ third base coach (seriously, that happened – the two started arguing, and the benches and bullpens cleared), where their coach was ejected and the other team’s wasn’t.

Of course, that was before the real brawl broke out after Lendy Castillo threw at Bryce Harper for some reason. The details of it will be fully explored tomorrow (it didn’t appear like there were any *serious* fights, but lots of shoving and maybe some swings), but the short of it for tonight is: when you’re getting pounded by the other team, and a fight breaks out, it looks like your fault. And you look petty. That’s not “showing fight” or “showing heart.” It’s OK to be frustrated that you’re losing so badly, but that’s not the way to handle it. Take your lumps, and hit the batting cages extra early the next day.

Did I mention the Cubs got stomped in the process yet again, completing a four-game sweep for the Nationals? I tend not to get too down about the Cubs this time of year, but it was hard not to tonight.

  • Flashfire

    I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say Germano’s 40-man slot is about to open up.

    • RY34

      thank god!

  • Rich

    Just saw the highlights on MLB app
    Embarrassed
    What a joke of a team
    Throw at Harper
    Disgrace
    I’m out
    Total lack of class by the Cubs
    You suck so hurt their guys
    What a joke

    • EvenBetterNewsV2.0

      Peace out

    • Carew

      Were you trying to write a poem?

      • ferrets_bueller

        Whether intentional or not, he succeeded. Bravo, good sir.

  • Dr Rich

    Gracias
    U guys are funny

  • EvenBetterNewsV2.0

    I know it happens all of the time, but the only thing that upset is the throw inside to Harper came from the bench. When your catcher sets up but doesn’t even go after the ball as it is being thrown, that is the most disappointing to me. I am not saying do them any favors, but that is the worst part about this to me that this is the message you send your team when you are this bad.

    • Njriv

      I know its good to still show some emotion considering this season and all, but this whole thing looks different if the Cubs weren’t getting their asses kicked the whole series.

  • Njriv

    That last base running gaffe by Jackson to end the game pretty much symbolized the whole series.

  • http://Bleachernation.com Ramy16

    I cant stand weak ass Bryce Harper… Ever since he blew a kiss to the pitcher after hitting a home run in a miner league game.. If that was Nolan Ryan or Goose Gossage on the mound and talking shit he would be in a world of hurt!

    • fortyonenorth

      I hadn’t heard that story, but I agree, Harper’s a tool. He’s incredibly talented, and obviously driven–that’s all good–but the way he presents himself rubs me the wrong way. He reminds me of Pete Rose in that respect. Never did like Pete.

      • Flashfire

        Before we get too excited: the Cubs have a guy with the exact same rep. His last name is Baez. And we do NOT want Strasburg having target practice with his kidneys.

      • Drew7

        Sorry, but I just don’t understand this.

        All I read about is how Soriano loafs around the field, doesnt play hard, yada yada. Well, Bryce Harper certainly plays hard, not to mention the kid is an absolute stud.

        I know this kid has a chip on his shoulder, but why wouldn’t he? I saw him bust his ass for a triple AND tip his cap to Jackson for robbing him of like, his 10th hit of the series.

        And FF is right: Baez is the same way, and I hope he “rubs other teams the wrong way” because that means other teams arent getting him out.

        • Carne Harris

          Agreed. I remember a job I got one time where after a couple of days one of the lazy ass employees came up to me and asked me to stop doing some of the things I was doing because he was worried the boss was going to make him start doing them too. Time may prove Harper to be a douche, but so far I see him the same way – as a guy some players resent because he makes them look bad by doing what they should be doing but aren’t – busting their ass to win.

        • fortyonenorth

          I don’t begrudge him his talent or chip, I just don’t care for him. There are plenty of guys who give 100% on every play that I like a whole lot. Maybe he’ll grow on me.

    • TC

      From everything I’ve ever read about the kiss Harper blew, it sounds like he only blew the kiss after the opposing pitcher had jawed at him throughout the entire at bat and his trip around the bases. Rather than yell back as he trotted around the bases, he simply blew the guy a kiss before he crossed home. I actually really like a guy doing something like that

  • Dr Rich

    Cubs get asses handed to them
    Throw at Harper
    Brett feeds daughter cookies
    Awesome
    All clear

  • CityCub

    I still really don’t understand why their 3rd base coach wasn’t ejected if Quirk got the boot…..I mean if you just look at the situation, Quirk never left the dugout but the 3rd base coach was basically standing in the cubs dug out? I don’t really promote fighting, but I just have to say WTG for Samardzija for getting in the middle of all that in the 6th….219 always haha

    • Flashfire

      Personally, I think the Cubs should have forfeit the game for that stunt. I’m a Sveum supporter, but he needs to be suspended.

      • CityCub

        Suspend who? Dale wasn’t even involved in both things. And Samardzija didn’t do anything that warrants a suspension over, yeah he wound up in the middle of the scuffle but so what teammates are like family(even if they can’t score you any runs in your starts) defending them don’t require a suspension.

        • Flashfire

          Throwing at Harper because you’re getting your butt kicked is indefensible. Sveum is the manager, and that behavior is on him.

          • CityCub

            For one, yeah throwing at him is kinda stupid, but we all know the control troubles of Castillo. And even tho he’s the manager, why suspend him for what happen? Castillo is his own person who makes his own decisions. If that’s the case, then why didn’t the MLB suspend Charlie Manuel instead of Cole Hamels when he intentionally hit Harper earlier in the year?

            • Flashfire

              Cole Hamels is Cole Hamels.

              Do you really think a rule 5 guy who has no business in the majors, and has to know it, is throwing at Bryce-stinking-Harper without being told to?

              • Njriv

                You can assume all you want, be we will never know.

              • CityCub

                And Lendy Castillo is Lendy Castillo. How do you know he was told to do it? What if he got a stick up his ass on his own and decided to just say ahh what the hell I’ll stick this one inside. Just because he’s a “Rule 5 guy” don’t make a difference at all.

                • Flashfire

                  (1) Clevenger would have moved his glove to try to catch it if he hadn’t relayed the order to Castillo.

                  (2) There is just no way. Castillo is risking his career if he hurts Bryce Harper on his own. Let’s say that fastball broke Harper’s wrist. How quickly would Bud Selig have suspended him for a season if it came out he made the decision?

                  • CityCub

                    Risking his career? Lol that’s a little drastic, I don’t care who it is at the plate Harper, Trout, Pujols hell even if the Babe would arise from his grave, No ones going to get suspended for a season for intentionally hitting a player and they end up getting hurt. And that’s to say it comes out he intentionally did it.

                    • bails17

                      ANYTIME you throw at someone you are risking his career. Plain and simple. If your going to throw at someone, it better be for a good reason. And this was not…even the comments by Clevenger after the game were just stupid. “Up 7-2 and you swing 3-0, you just don’t do that.” I am not sure it that is exactly what he said, but it is close. First off, being up 7-2 in the fifth is NOT a comfortable lead. This just shows lack of real baseball knowledge on the Cubs part. I hope that the call didn’t come from Sveum. He should know better than that. Some of you are saying that this HAD to come from Sveum. That is not the case. It could have come from one of the verterans or even Clevenger. Either way…we will never know.

          • http://It'searly Mike F

            This whole conversation is stupid.

            Good for Sveum, Quirk and Clevenger. Real Cub fans applaud you…..

            • Drew7

              My eyes just rolled so much I almost fell backwards.

              Good for Quirk? Jawing at someone from 60 ft away, whining because the other team has spent the last 4 days beating the dog sh** out of you?

              Sveum? Ordering the plunking of a 19 yr old because your bench coach cant keep his mouth shut?

              Clevenger? The guy who thought he’d be cool and not even try to catch the attempted plunking, basically hanging his pitcher out to dry when/if suspensions come?

              Oh yeah – great job guys.

              • EvenBetterNewsV2.0

                I agree. That was the most idiotic thing I have read throughout this. Hope he figures out he part of like .2% of the fanbase on this. Yeah, that shows you have fight and you are a bunch of badasses when you order your pitcher to throw at a 19 yr old because you got your feelings hurt. I have never wanted to see a Cub get his ass whooped in a brawl, but I wouldn’t have minded it last night. That was rediculous all of the way around. Here is a concept that could change that next year, play better, and you don’t have to worry about a guy swinging at a 3-0 pitch only up 7-2. That was about as idiotic to be pissed about that.

                • ETS

                  I thought clevenger did a good job stopping harper, reducing the tension. Pretty sure Harper would have been throwing punches had he made it to the mound. Imagine the scene had that happened.

                  Actually, I never saw in a replay what clevenger did to get tossed. He must have pushed someone or something.

                  • EvenBetterNewsV2.0

                    Yeah, he shoved Morse, who is like twice his size. I am glad for Clevenger the Nats wouldn’t let him go. He wanted to and probably would have killed Clevenger. I personally don’t think Harper did anything wrong. Watch Clevenger after he sets up. He doesn’t reach for the pitch. He knew exactly where it was going, and what was going to be the result of that. I am glad punches weren’t thrown. I wouldn’t want to play a hand in a playoff chase like that.

              • OlderStyle

                Quirk was whining? Maybe he was pissed that Werth was swinging at 3-0 and expressed it to Porter. Porter defended the action? That’s classless, if he’s going to go over to the bench and point fingers. I’ve had to reign in players in games because they were showing up the other team. It’s a coaches job to handle it before it gets out of control.

                Sveum may or may not have ordered it but really, you’re going to phrase it like Harper’s a child in harms way? He’s a major league baseball player. Period. They should’ve have thrown inside to Werth, though.

                Clevenger left his pitcher out to dry. That was lame.

                Even if you’re getting pummeled, you should still maintain your respect.

                • bails17

                  Mayber Porter was telling Quirk what baseball is all about. Swinging at 3-0 up 5 in the fifth is NOT bad baseball. Quirk lost it. Bottom line. Porter did nothing wrong. The Cubs are 100% in the wrong here. If you don’t want to get your butts kicked inside out, get better. If it were the 9th inning, I could see if there were an issue. But never in the 5th up only 5. Hell, even this brutal Cubs lineup scored 9 runs in one inning at least once this year. Know the game, shut up and play. Just real bad baseball by the Cubs.

                  • King Jeff

                    So why did Javy Baez get plunked for doing the same thing in a minor league game earlier this year? There were people on here call Baez a punk and saying he needed to play the game the right way. I agree Bails, the Cubs should have plunked Werth and let it go instead of yelling and pointing. Eventually this young team is going to grow a pair and start fighting back, even if they are losing games.

                    • bails17

                      When Baez did it…they were up 13 runs!! That is the difference. The situation. Rizzo’s HR in the first was off a 3-0 pitch. No one said anything about it..it’s the situation. A five run lead is not enough in this league, period. Know the game. These young guys showed how stupid they are, not how much fight they have.

                    • bails17

                      NO ONE should have been thrown at by the way. Don’t go down 3-0 with the bases loaded…that’s what the Cubs can do. Get a ground ball…make a play..start getting better between the lines!

                • Drew7

                  If Quirk had a problem with it, why scream from a distance like a drunk frat-boy? Just plunk Worth with the next pitch and end it. You dont have to pretend to be a tough guy about it.

                  Wording it like Harper’s a kid wasn’t my intention, but the point holds true – Sveum ordering the plunking of Harper is idiotic.

                  I’m a baseball coach as well, and frankly, some coaches take these unwritten rules WAY too seriously. You’ve had to reign-in players for swinging 3-0 with a 5 run lead? If I had a pitcher throwing ball after ball out of the zone in a blowout, what’s it telling my kids if I get pissed at the other team? Blame others when you suck? Displace your anger from ypurself to an opposing coach? Sorry, but Id rather just take steps to ensure my team doeant get their asses kicked again.

                  I’m not saying you shouldnt ever call of the dogs, or that players shouldnt be taught to play with some dignity and respect. I think some teams/coaches are just a little too oversensensitive once they start getting their asses kicked.

  • fortyonenorth

    Len’s theory was that Quirk was jawing about the Nats rubbing the Cubbies face in the dirt by swinging at 3-0 pitches and stealing bases when it was painfully obvious that they had us beat (to death).

    In any event, as I posted elsewhere, I’ve never seen a coach come at the dugout like Porter did. Seems odd that Quirk was the one to get tossed. Based on that, I don’t think Castillo’s brush-back was so out of line. IMO, it doesn’t amount to pettiness. This isn’t Little League.

    • CityCub

      Yeah I’ve never seen anyone do that either, Quirk gets tossed, Slap on the wrist and a “you can’t leave the coaches box.” for Porter. I personally don’t think the pitch-in was all that bad either, even if Clevenger didn’t attempt to catch it….we all know Castillo has control issues haha

      • art

        if he wanted to hit harper he would have, brush back is how i see it. or wild as you say.

        • Drew7

          “If he wanted to hit Harper he would have”

          Yeah, cause everyone knows all about Castillo’s pinpoint control…

    • Drew7

      I guess I missed them stealing bases at that point, but you know how you keep guys from swinging at a 3-0 pitch? You don’t fall behind 3-0…

  • The Dude Abides

    One walk &11 k’s for the Cubs – seven walks and six k’s for the Nationals. Our coaching staff needs to make sure the team undersatnds this working the count thing.

    • Flashfire

      Not entirely fair: Nationals pitchers do this wild thing called “throw strikes.”

  • Njriv

    If I were the Cubs I would have just left the stadium right after the game, uniform and all and make an arrangement to have their equipment and all other belongings shipped to Pittsburgh, anything to get out of Washington as fast as they can.

  • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

    If you’re down on the Cubs, give a listen to the Boise Hawks. Nothing inoculates against major league frustration quite so well as listening to a minor league affiliate playing for a Championship.

    http://boise.hawks.milb.com/index.jsp?sid=t480

    • CityCub

      I can’t believe Boise just gave up the lead…..and now they’re down 3

  • Josh Z

    At least Rizzo and Castro did good. That’s all that really matters at this point. We need to go out and sign 3 pitchers this offseason. Like real pitchers, not the garbage that we are going to wind up grabbing.

  • scorardpaul

    most baseball fans in the world know the Cubs need pitchers, but posting in your post that we need to sign 3 “like real pitchers” really doesn’t do much. The 3 real pitchers that you are talking about are not available this year!!!!!!!!!

  • http://bleachernation.com RicoSanto

    It is hard for our young players to be Motivated when your pitchers get ROCKED every game. These starters would not be .500 in AA Ball.

  • Fakko

    If I remember correctly, didn’t Baez swing at a 3-0 pitch earlier this year during a blow out then get beaned and people were all in a tizzy over how he needs to mature? Double standards?

    • TC

      Not only did he get thrown at, but he was benched the next day by the Chiefs’ manager. You just don’t go against hard-wired unwritten rules like swinging 3-0 in a blowout (7-2 in the 5th tonight is pretty close to one, and Baez swung 3-0 in a 13 run game). (Also, I usually hate things that are backed up by only “it’s tradition”, but not showing up opposing players (especially in blowouts) is one that I’m okay with)

      • Flashfire

        Wasn’t even unwritten — he was given a take sign, thus the benching. I’m very glad the manager felt comfortable doing that.

        • TC

          hah, jeez, if he swung through a take sign too, thats really bad. Also, I’d be happy if he’d gotten benched for swinging 3-0 in a blowout anyway, cause shit like that is going to get fastballs thrown at your head when you get to higher levels of the game

    • bbmoney

      I know all about the unwritten rules and all that. But this is the major leauges. As far as I’m concerned swing away….it might be different in the mniors but in the Bigs, if you don’t like getting your butt kicked…do something about it, and if you can’t well…you might not be in the bigs much longer. You don’t want a guy swinging on you 3-0 with a big league two suggestions: 1. Don’t give up so many runs early in games. 2. Throw a strike with one of your first three pitches. If you can’t do either of those things…..you should be mad at yourself and not that guy that just crushed your 3-0 meatball.

      The Cubs stink this year, no two ways about it. The good news is we’ve got that #2 pick just about locked up.

    • Drew7

      If I remember correctly, I said the same thing then as I am now: quit bitching and tell your pither to throw a strike.

      However, it came out afterwards that Baez swung through a take sign – a move that warranted the “time-out” he received.

  • Madprizamwoo

    Harper talks alot of smack that we don’t see. Throwing at him was called for by the dugout and I’m sure it was merited. We haven’t seen Dale over use this card this season so I’d lay off of ripping him as well. Additionally, he may be trying to force some fight into this lifeless team. I’m good with it.

  • cubmig

    Everything about this team is in the hands of Theo&Jed. What we’ve seen of this Cubs team has been misery personified. I have no expectation next year will be too different–unless there’s a bump from a year’s experience that translates into better play and more win results. I won’t have my hopes up…..It’s going to be tough watching our team if nothing changes.

    • Eric

      They are going with the total rebuild. A year or 2 of this should not surprise. I think they’ve done a great job so far, they’ve added 5 guys in less than a year that slot into our top 10. Almora, Soler, Johnson, Vizciano, and Villunueva. You could even possibly argue Blackburn. And they’ve added some guys who could very well shoot up next year in Toreyyes and Underwood and I’m sure even more I am missing. Also, if the trade deadline wasn’t screwed up we would have replaced Vizciano with Delgado, and likely gotten a picthing prospect for Garza who would slot in our top 3 and probably 2 others in our top 10. I am feeling pretty good they can work some more magic this offseason.

  • Hee Seop Chode

    [img]http://www.slantmagazine.com/images/film/majorleague.jpg[/img]

  • Diesel

    I was at the game and a nationals fan sitting next to me said that the cubs should have thrown at werth during his next at bat in that situation but didn’t. We had a discussion and we came to the same conclusion. The cubs should have hit werth in the thigh then when either Castro or Rizzo came to bat you drill them in the thigh. The issue would have been over after that. Now we have to wait until next season to watch one of our best players get drilled. I expect it to happen.

  • Spencer

    I mean…Lendy is pretty bad. Maybe it slipped.

  • Master Dan

    WOW, the Cubs are something else these days…

  • art

    wasn’t there a rule where any player from Pen/Bench who came on the field as a result of a brawl would be ejected? it was supposedly put in to stop big brawls.

  • Nomar’s Left Glove

    I wonder if Clevenger told him to hit the bull.

  • Big Joe

    Harper talks a lot of smack that we don’t hear??? Then HOW do you know he does it? And, if you’re correct…how does it go? Oh. It ain’t bragging if you can back it up.

    • Leroy

      If a tree falls in the woods….

      • fortyonenorth

        If Bryce Harper hits a home run and there are no fans in the Nationals’s stadium, does it count toward his statistics?

  • Curt

    damn the cubs are making Adam laroche look like a hall of famer and a really classless act throwing at Harper , I hope management has something to say to the team like get better and don’t let teams embarrass u like this and grow up .

  • fromthemitten

    clown pitch bro

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      That took way too long. Nicely done.

  • die hard

    this collection of wannabes cant even brawl the major league way….pathetic….starts at the top and is trickle down just like the Republican Ricketts truly is….you need a kick ass at the top like Dallas Green or today Nolan Ryan…not some white collar wall street guy…shows in the way the team lacks the fight to win

    • Cubbie Blues

      Dick Tidrow is offended he didn’t get a mention. You wouldn’t like Dick when he’s angry.

  • Spoda17

    I think the “inside” pitch had nothing to do with Harper, her was just the next guy up…

  • http://www.viewfromthebleachers.com Norm

    Give me a break….we’re ok with calling the game in the fifth inning down 7-2? That’s f’n absurd. That game is not over and most definitely not a blowout.
    Baez swung at a 3-0 count when they were up 15-2 in the NINTH inning.

    Pretty comparable scenarios, huh?

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