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The 2012 Winter Meetings are in the books. The Cubs saved their activity for the last 18 hours or so, agreeing to terms with outfielder Nate Schierholtz last night, picking reliever Hector Rondon in the Rule 5 Draft this morning, and then re-signing third baseman Ian Stewart late this afternoon. Nothing glamorous or sexy, but adequate complementary moves, especially given the expectations for 2013. As for the rest of the league …

  • The biggest news of the day was the Phillies picking up their center fielder for 2013 – speedy 24-year-old Ben Revere from the Twins for pitcher Vance Worley and pitching prospect Trevor May. That takes them out of the market for a center fielder (like Michael Bourn, for example), but could leave them with money to spend elsewhere.
  • (And if that sounds like a good haul for Revere, it is. I reckon that, with escalating payroll commitments for aging players, and an urgency to keep trying to win in the next three years, the Phillies put a premium on a big league center fielder whom they could control for a while cheaply. Revere’s numbers don’t knock your socks off, but his defense is excellent and he’s cheap as all get out. Couple that with Worley’s elbow bone spurs surgery, and it’s a little more understandable.)
  • So, about that Bourn piece. As others are speculating, without the Phillies in the bidding, Bourn could soon run short on legitimate options for 2013. I don’t think it’s likely that the Cubs will make a serious play for him, but I certainly don’t think signing Nate Schierholtz would preclude it if the right opportunity came along. If Justin Upton ends up traded to the Rangers, and Josh Hamilton ends up signing with the Mariners, it is fair to start wondering whether Bourn may have to settle for a shorter-term, lower-dollar deal. It’s happened before.
  • And it isn’t just Bourn. With trades happening in the outfield, the options for guys like Nick Swisher and Cody Ross could be diminished as well. Like I said this morning, the Cubs could come out of this smelling like roses in a couple months when they snatch up a guy looking for a job on the cheap. It’s something the A’s have done well for years, and something the Cubs historically rarely did – more often, the Cubs were leading the market, and getting their team set by December, because that was lower risk. Well, with a potentially rough 2013 on the way … why not take a little risk and wait?
  • (A couple cold water bits on Bourn, though: (1) Teams pop up out of nowhere in these situations all the time, so don’t assume he’s just going to fall into the Cubs’ lap, even if there’s a perfect storm of Upton and Hamilton (remember last year when the Tigers entered the bidding for Prince Fielder out of nowhere, and had him inked within a week?); (2) he, alone, doesn’t make the Cubs a winner in 2013. I’m still not crazy about him at five or six years and $80 to $100 million, so it isn’t like I’m pushing for the Cubs to start aggressively bidding. This is only if his market shifts such that it looks like he can be had on a shorter, cheaper deal, and become an undervalued asset.)
  • What about the Alfonso Soriano impact? Well, the Phillies have been connected to the Cubs about Soriano, but does the Revere acquisition take them out of those discussions? I don’t think so. Revere is being acquired as a cheap, leadoff center fielder. If the Phillies aren’t sold on the Ruf/Mayberry/Brown trio, there’s no reason to think they don’t also want to add a right-handed-hitting power guy in the middle of the lineup, and a corner outfielder would be an obvious fit. In other words, I don’t see the Revere trade as having any impact on possible Soriano talks, if there are any.
  • And don’t rule out the Braves for Soriano. Jon Heyman says they, too, were trying for Revere, in the hopes of getting a left fielder who can lead off. Soriano fills half of that equation, at least. And the Cubs would be willing to eat plenty of cash for the right return.
  • There is a bidding war for Jack Hannahan, which should tell you everything you need to know about the third base market. He could choose a team later today, and Cubs have not been connected.
  • [This is not terribly relevant now, in light of the Ian Stewart signing, but I'd already written before he re-signed, so, here it is.] Speaking of that market, Kevin Youkilis, the best option, has a one year, $12 million offer from the Yankees, as well as some two-year offers in the $16 to $18 million range from other teams, according to Ken Rosenthal (one of those offers is believed to be the Indians, as well as, probably, the Mariners). Obviously that would be a fine deal for the Cubs, but I think you’re not going to see them connected, because they aren’t close to winning. Youkilis wants to win, and he wants to win immediately. That should point him toward the Yankees’ offer, though he might be displaced positionally when Alex Rodriguez returns from hip surgery mid-season. So maybe he won’t like that offer after all.
  • The Braves have re-upped with Reed Johnson, whom they really liked after acquiring him from the Cubs mid-season. He’s a quality bench bat and leader in the clubhouse. He got a one-year deal with an option for 2014.
  • That link also notes that Randy Wells, who was a minor league free agent, signed on with the Rangers on a minor league deal. There were rumors a few weeks back that that was happening, so there you go. Best of luck, Randy.
  • Kenster

    The bidding war between the Braves and no one else ended for the services of good ole Blake DeWitt as well

  • RunningCub

    Well folks this is it, remember last year when every Cubs fan was saying “oh, I don’t mind suckling for 3 years anything it takes to get a championship” well the honeymoon is over we suck and it seems like the players we keep hearing about in the minors are light years away. We just have to stay focused and buckle down for probably two more years, and after waiting a 100 years is that so much to ask?

  • DocPeterWimsey

    I really doubt that Revere will be the Phils’ leadoff batter. As far as Rollins has fallen, he still will post a better OBP than Revere, and Rollins has considerably more pop in his bat, which is nice to have at the top of the order. (At least 2 of the Phils starting pitchers will post higher OBPs than Revere probably will, too….)

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Revere become the Phils 4th OFer. He’s basically only a hair better than Campana at the plate. (Revere is a much better fielder than is Campana, however.)

    • Believe in 2015

      I don’t know Doc. Trading Vance Worley and pitching prospect Trevor May shows that the Phillies have a lot of faith in this kid

  • Fastball

    Brett, I agree with you on the Cubs should just sit back and see who ends up desperate later in the winter market. I don’t really like Bourn or Swisher. Swisher is kind of a jerk weed.
    If we can sign a quality starting pitcher like McCarthy and a couple bullpen guys that would be excellent. In the end I think we need a better RF option than Schierholtz. If we had a Swisher or Ross in RF we would improve quite a bit offensively.

  • Believe in 2015

    Would Soriano bring the Cubs someone like Delgado?

  • wingit

    Brett, Does Stewart have to go on the 40 man roster since his deal is not guaranteed?

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      We don’t know yet for sure. I suspect he does, because I don’t think this is a true minor league deal. Just a special, non-guaranteed major league deal like an arbitration contract.

  • wingit

    Thanks Brett. If he does go on, who is your guess to go off…Campana or one of the middle relievers or someone else.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      You’re in the right area. Depends on other moves.

  • daveyrosello

    AZP says Stewart is definitely on the 40-man, and Phil is the expert on these things. Rondon BTW gets added immediately, as in, today. But at this particular time of the year, teams actually get 20 days to get their count down to 40 when they go over, like now for the Cubs. So Theo has til Christmas to DFA someone–and that assumes an existing 40-man player isn’t traded away in the interim.

    Most likely to be cut? Clevenger and Beliveau, maybe Campana. Many of the other obvious names (such as Rusin) can’t be cut at this time of year because of their minor league free agent or Rule 55 status. Weird system that MLB uses, that’s for sure.

  • gutshot5820

    I can’t believe that when the Tribune owned the Cubs, everybody hated them and wanted a new owner because they thought the Trib was cheap. And now we have a profit driven owner that is even cheaper than the Trib with payroll down ever year and ticket prices going up but its cool?

    The only difference is that we now have Theo at the helm over Hendry. Did everyone hate Hendry so much that they are now vehemently defending the lower payroll and higher ticket prices? This is such a joke, the team is getting worse every year and ticket prices are going up and we have a mob defending the low payroll. This may be the FIRST time in HISTORY OF SPORTS that a fan base gets mad at anyone who suggests signing impact players in order to make the team better. You all are MARKETING HYPE SHEEP. The Cubs marketing team own you.

    • Tony S

      Do you seriously think Theo would have left Boston to come to a team that will be incrementally decreasing its spending??? Absolutely no chance.
      Theo and Tom have a plan and it doesnt involve repeating the mistakes of the last 10 years in throwing money at questionable free agents.

  • gutshot5820

    This may be the FIRST time in HISTORY OF SPORTS that a fan base gets mad at anyone who suggests signing impact players in order to make the team better. You all are MARKETING HYPE SHEEP. The Cubs marketing team own you.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      “I’m calmer than you.”

      I don’t know that anyone is mad about your suggestions – they just disagree.

      (Well, TWC kind of blew that up, but technically, he wasn’t angry about the different opinion – he was angry about the implied insult.)

      • MightyBear

        “Just take it easy Walter.”

        The problem with your suggestion of signing impact players is there are no impact players in this FA class. Do you want the Cubs to just spend money so it looks like they’re doing something? That we’ll have something to cheer about? Look at the Red Sox they spent a lot of money at the winter meetings. They overpaid Victorino, Napoli, Gomes and Ross and they’re still going to finish 4th or 5th in their division AND they’re probably going to be a terrible team for several years.

        • cas-castro

          Hallelujah!!! Thank you. Why cant people understand that the free agent class this year does not have any impact players. This may also be a trend in the future as well as teams are locking up their impact players to long term deals before they hit free agency. Please have faith that the FO has a good plan in place and we will see the fruits of this in the next few years with some improvements each year as we graduate players from the farm system and add complementary pieces as we go…our time is going to come. Bleed cubbie blue!!

        • gutshot5820

          You are making a lot of assumptions
          1/ You are assuming there were NO free agent signings available to fill any of the current holes we enjoy now last year and this year.
          2/ Please go tweet Cherington that his whole FO is terrible and they just wasted all that money for a 4th or fifth place team.
          3/ You must have a crystal ball that knows exactly when all our prospects are going to be all stars.
          4/ Please tweet all the other 29 teams that in a few years to not draft players anymore or sign any free agents or develop existing players because Theo is now our GM and we are going to dominate the next decade so its useless to even try to compete with us.
          5/ Please tell all the agents that our prospects are going to be ready in three years so dont sign any long term contracts until then. And oh btw make sure to give us discounts because we don’t like to overpay because it will saddle us with salary burdens at the end and we dont like to do those kinds of things.

          Please, the other 29 teams in MLB are not going to stop drafting and improving just because Theo is now our GM. Sure, he is great compared to Hendry but there is no way in hell that he can guarantee that we will be good for the next decade as if the world stops and revolves around the Cubs plans.

          • Melrosepad

            Dang man, please go root for another frickin’ team. All I’m hearing is bitch, bitch, moan, moan. “Oh poor me, my GM and owner isn’t spending his money like I think they should.” If there was a good free agent that we wanted, we could have gone out and gotten it. Ricketts wants the team to win, and he is trusting Theo and Jed to do it for him. Let the man do his frickin’ job and just go away.

          • cub2014

            ya lets sign free agents and trade away prospects so we can be around 500 every year. make the playoffs once evry four years. no thanks lets try something different

        • FFP

          Saturday is Shabbas. That means I don’t work, I don’t drive a car, I don’t ride in a car, I don’t handle money, I don’t turn on the oven, and I don’t (post).

          We all might need a break. I feel more like Walter every day.

          Go, Cubs.

  • wingit

    Thanks Davey…yes lots of weird rules. I would think they would hold onto Beliveau but you never know anymore.

  • Kenster

    Beliveau is gonna stay no reason to DFA him without giving him much of a chance to pitch. Plus he’s a lefty just has to cut down on the walks

  • gutshot5820

    Name ONE TEAM in Professional Sports where the fan base is against spending money to improve the team if the owner can afford it. Only Cub fans. LMAO. Its almost comical how people are clamoring and defensive when anyone suggests spending money. EVERY free agent is too expensive and we need to save the money. Not ONE free agent is worth it. How can every free agent from last year and this year be not worth it? Everyone wants a bargain and if its not a rehab TJS we shouldnt even look at him because the Yankees or Dodgers are bidding. Lets just drive a dump truck to Ricketts home and just give him money. We are never going to sign a free agent that is any good because they are always going to be overpriced. It is almost a cruel joke.

    • Njriv

      LMFAO!!!!!!11111!!!!!1!111!!

    • bbmoney

      Yes….no one else here is getting defensive. oh wait that’s right all i can say is “bah…bah…bah”.

      wouldn’t life be boring if everyone thought just like you anyways?

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

      I’m confused.

      I’m on record being in favor of offering Bourn a four or five year deal, but not a six year one.

      https://twitter.com/ltblaize/status/276551780022763521

      Does that make me not a Cubs fan since I am in favor of pursuing a major free agent, or not a Cubs fan because I’m not in favor of throwing all the years he wants and all the money available at him?

    • PKJ

      I share your disappointment in having a losing team, but who would you suggest they sign? Beyond Greinke, there aren’t really any primo free agents out there.

  • Roy Hobbs

    I agree gutshot.

    Problem is this site is a clique of sorts and since Brett shook Ricketts hand and got his teenage crush going, we pretty much can expect a site devoid of much critical analysis.

    This is a front office homer site, I’ve stopped commenting because if I ever disagree I’m called a troll.

    Problem is even though I hate the perspective, this site still has the best updates and info.

    Brett does a great job, I just disagree with him on pretty much everything front office related.

    As a fan I do think 100 loss seasons with escalating ticket prices and lower payroll to be an arrogant slap in the face. We’re basically hoping every single prospect pans out at the same time with theos plan, yeah, no flaws in that logic.

    Best to not say anything, and just laugh it off when the mob attacks the next free thinker.

    That poor hapless fool.

    • Kyle

      This is literally the friendliest Cubs site on the web. I genuinely don’t know what you want if you think is a place you can’t dissent.

    • TC

      To everyone mad about rising ticket prices, I would like to start a discussion with you:

      Why is it that you are mad at ownership for responding to an increased demand for tickets by increasing prices? If they weren’t making more money by raising prices, they wouldn’t do it. Be mad at your fellow fan for driving up demand, sure, but what would you do if you were in the ownership’s position, just make less money out of the good of your heart? That’s simply not how businesses are run

      • gutshot5820

        First of all, lets start by Ricketts promise that all income will be reinvested into the team. Secondly, people were upset when they thought the Tribune was cheap, why does Ricketts get a pass? Lastly. I guess people generally fantasize about having an ownership that cares more about winning and going to extreme lengths to please their fan base rather than making profit driven decisions.

        But you are entirely correct that Ricketts can do anything they want.

        • Tommy

          Your comment just shows your ignorance to what has been going on within the organization since the Ricketts bought the team.

          • gutshot5820

            Whatever Tommy you are entitled to your opinion. I’m just saying we should have a normal payroll and try to compete until the kids can play. Whats wrong with that?

            And no please dont ask me who we should sign. I dont have a 20M scouting dept and FO. But if Theo is that good he should be able to figure it out?

            With a 150 mil payroll that should go to the cap in 2014 we should be set if we make smart moves. But hey whatever. I know by this time next year a lot of people will be off the Ricketts bandwagon anyways.

            • Tommy

              I don’t have a problem with you saying we should have a normal payroll, I have a problem with you name calling and being belligerent to folks that don’t agree with you. This is a message board and you’re not going to have everyone agreeing with you, so you should get used to that.

              As for the fact that you don’t have a scouting department and a FO, that is my point exactly – you don’t, so what on earth would make you think your plan is better than theirs? Spending more money is not a guarantee of success (see Florida Marlins 2012 and Philadelphia Phillies 2012), and not spending money is not a guarantee of failure (see any Rays team).

              Spending for the sake of spending is a worse plan than not spending at all. I can guarantee that this FO knows who will be a free agent for the next 5 years, and some of the names that aren’t being signed are because they don’t want to tie up positions that they may be planning to fill in other ways.

              I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I think that those of us that aren’t all worked up over not spending on free agents feel this way because we’ve already lived through that. We went out and bought the best that money could buy and still didn’t win a World Series. Did it get us close? Yes. What did it cost us? Our farm system was decimated and we ended up with a lot of unfavorable contracts that hamstrung our movement when those players got older.

              We have heard the plan that Theo has laid out and we believe that he can make it work. We want a team that is good for decades, not years, and good from Rookie ball to the Majors, not just the Major league club. This type of success that we see with the Cardinals, Yankees, Red Sox, Braves doesn’t come over night. And yes, I am willing to wait a bit for that and I believe we’ll get there. I could be wrong, but that is my explanation to you as to why I don’t agree with your assessment of the Cubs.

        • TC

          Well, Ricketts is getting a pass because he’s (at least now) spending on things that matter, like the draft and the front office, where the tribune company was cheaper than imaginable. The tribune company was *very* cheap for a *very* long time. Ricketts gets the benefit of the doubt because he inherited a broken organization in a severe decline that also needs roughly $500 million in ballpark repairs. He is spending money in places that are hopefully going to reverse the decline (front office, international free agency, and the draft), and there haven’t been the impact FA that would fit into that long term plan available yet.

          If Giancarlo Stanton makes it to FA and isn’t offered upwards of $250 million by this organization, we’ll talk then, but until the team shows any life it just isn’t prudent to spend money recklessly, nor really reasonable to expect the ownership to do so.

          One last thing – I know that everyone thinks of the Cubs being a “big market’ org. like the Yankees, or Boston, or Texas (who can all throw craploads of money around because it doesn’t matter), but it simply is not the case right now. Until new TV rights deals come in and the ballpark is repaired, the Cubs’ revenue is woefully short of “big market” territory. And while they could sign lots of FA now, because they are not yet a revenue powerhouse those contracts could really restrict them 3 years from now, when splurging on FA will (hopefully) put the team over the top.

          • gutshot5820

            Ok, although I agree with you that there has been much improvement in our baseball operations and give credit to both Ricketts and Theo for doing an amazing job towards that end. That being said, we are only catching up to the standards that other clubs have set and because we were run so badly under the Tribune and Hendry, it makes anything they are doing looking like magic.

            Where I am in total disagreement is that i feel we can totally have a payroll up to the cap and break even if the Ricketts wanted. As you said, they are running the business for profit but they never should have said that all money will be reinvested back into the team. I’m just wanting/wishing we could have a full payroll that is representative of our market and ticket prices. There is no reason we could not build the farm and compete at the same time we truly wanted to. again, not in one year but a few pieces last year and this year would be great and not bust our budget. That is all.

            Anyways it doesn’t matter if most of you don’t agree with me or not. I’ve been a Cub fan for a long time as I’m sure we all have. I have seen way too many prospects bust out to believe all of sudden Theo is going to step in and voila all our prospects are not going to get injured or bust anymore.

            I will be following this blog all next year and my prediction is almost everyone on this board will be anti Ricketts by then end of next year.

      • When the Music’s Over

        Consumers typically have a host of comparable replacement products (often almost perfect replacements) in which to choose from when the product they pay for is inferior in terms of either price, quality or some sort of a combination of those two variables. In the case of the Cubs, or sports teams in general, extreme loyalty, long-term “promises” and distance typically don’t allow this relationship to properly play out, or in other words, the market is not perfect.

        You are correct, in that the Cubs know this to be true, and are therefore technically abusing their very advantageous situation. It doesn’t mean that the fans of the Cubs can’t be upset about it, and it certainly doesn’t mean the Cubs have to abuse loyalty. By decreasing ticket prices (on average) by 1% this year, Cubs ownership is more or less saying we in no way do we appreciate your continued loyalty and your extreme patience, even in spite of us saving tons of money by purposely trying to provide you with the worst possible product in MLB, (not saying this part is right or wrong), all while charging the third highest average ticket price in MLB.

        I know this isn’t a great comparison, but trying going to a store sometime and comparing two products. One is awful (product A) and the other, let’s call it average (product B). Let’s be nice here and say the products carry the same exact price, $50 (which is the average ticket price of a Cubs ticket). If product A is discounted 1% vs. product B, saving you 50 cents, are you going to purchase product A? No way, as it’s not enough to compensate for it’s far inferior quality.

        What I’m trying to say here is that Cubs are abusing their fans right now. Even a 5% decrease in ticket prices, which wouldn’t have killed the Cubs financially, would have been a really nice gesture to fans.

    • Njriv

      Then go! Goodbye, so long, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    • Tommy

      …yet here you are stating your opinion and throwing insults at people that don’t agree with you before they don’t agree with you.

      Classy move.

      • Tommy

        That comment was meant for Roy Hobbs.

    • cub2014

      what? of course this is a cubs site and I would assume most reasonable people would at least give new leadership a chance. we certainly are willing to overlook mediocrity and failure on pennsylvania avenue and give that team another chance

  • Jon

    I think most people believe in what Theo is trying to accomplish including me; however, the message in some respect that is being conveyed by the Cubs to their fan base is poor. Yes, Theo said they would like to win every game and compete for the WS every year. Yes, Theo has asked fans to be patient. Yes, Theo has indicated this will not be a short journey; however, the club should be more up front and keep pounding it into people’s heads that the team is going to lack any sort of polish for several more years. First and foremost baseball is still a business and If I went to my boss and explained how I was managing my territory and not committing even the slightest bit on when I feel I was going to be successful there would be several people not happy with me. For the Cubs, luckily the club isn’t a public owned company because the fans / shareholders would be holding the team more accountable for faster results.

    There needs to be measurable results every year and hopefully this team shows some sort of improvement in 2013. For me I would expect to see significant improvement for the 2014 season otherwise I’ll be extremely disappointed in the direction of the team.

  • Roy Hobbs

    And for the record, Kyle is the man.

    I pretty much read this site everyday in anticipation of some sh?! He might stir up.

    I agree with his comments, and only wish we could get more Kyle on here.

    Kyles comments are like cowbell, u can’t have enough.

    As a fan tho, let me just say, I’m hoping to hear you drop the gloves a little more, and let em all have it.

    Making my team Kyle t-shirts immediately. I’m gonna start taping them to babies and old people since they’re slow, and start a movement.

    Our fan page will be

    http://Www.whyskylespimphandsostrong.com

    • http://facebook william

      damn it looks like u have a serious man crush lol

      • Jim L

        Or Kyle has an alias.

  • Don

    Stewart is a great signing! You win games with pitching and defense. Stewart is a good defensive 3rd baseman. If he is healthy finally, his offensive numbers should increase to 25 HR’s, 85 RBI’s and .250 batting average. I’ll take that for $2.5 million. Soriano gets $18 million for those offensive stats and he doesn’t play very good defense.

    • cRAaZYHORSE

      Dude the unicorn is down the street from your house if your quick you can catch one!.

      • TWC

        Hawr.

  • cRAaZYHORSE

    Thank YOU (Brett) for your posts ,as always you work very hard for Cub fans. Its nice to be able to go too One place and read your articles with its links to various topics concerning the Cubs.

  • Kyle

    The only way you sign Bourn I think is if you trade Soriano and go with a DeJesus/Bourn/Schierholtz-Sappelt outfield.

    That is a *sick* defensive team in both the infield and outfield. Not sure how much that really matters in the long run, but it’s not nothing and would be intriguing to see them maxed out like that in one small facet.

    • cRAaZYHORSE

      I say keep Soriano – he is not gonna bring in a haul of prospects and his days of being a productive bat is a whole better then Stewarts. If the Cubs were able to get great prospects then yes trade him but if just to save a few million dollars in a salary dump -why -He is not blocking anyone

      • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

        I’d deal for good, not great, prospects if the Cubs could get a couple of them. For example, if they could get a package from Tampa along the lines of Blake Snell and Felipe Rivero, I’d be pretty happy. No need to hold out for someone like Walker or Hultzen from Seattle (that would never happen anyway).

      • Don

        Before last season I would have traded Soriano for
        two six packs of beer. Now I am sure the Cubs could
        get a full case of beer for him maybe even microbrew!

  • human

    completely agree with gutshot. god bless you man. “every year is sacred…blah,blah,blah”. Loved the Theo move last year. Not so much this year. Not wasting money on Hamilton, fielder, pujols, etc, I totally get. One man will not turn this team around, but whats the point in signing Scherholz (I know that’s an incorrect spelling) ? We should have just held onto LaHair. It just seems we are being sold a bill of goods. I can’t see any reason you can’t build on multiple fronts. When the Theo coup was announced we were told that winning was paramount. The actions, thus far, seem to disprove the above statement that every year is sacred. I am a huge lifelong fan of the cubs. Cried in 84, 89 and especially 03. Nobody wants this team to win more than me but IMO we as fans are being duped. I stopped watching games at the deadline last year and unless they show some initiative towards actually trying this year I can’t see any reason to invest my time.

    • gutshot5820

      Human, be prepared for the don’t post on here anymore goodbye don’t let the door hit you on the way out remarks. And this infamous TWC will definitely be here with a quotation of your comment followed by a snarky remark never to post on here again.

      • Cubbie Blues

        Who has actually asked you to leave? You may be asked to stop the constant bashing (seriously, find something nice to say sometime), but that is a far shot from being asked to leave.

        • gutshot5820

          What did I say that was not nice? I LOVE the Cubs but I hate the small market approach and high ticket prices approach. In fact, I can say you are the one that is bashing me in a condescending way. And yes, there have been many times when I suggested that Theo was not making the best moves in my opinion and i got replies such as yourself and that I was an idiot and asked to leave if I didn’t like it.

          Cubbie Blues, you are a total stranger to me so please if you want to argue on of my points that’s great we can talk but if you just want to complain about my point of views you can fudge off. I can be critical of the FO and still be a Cubs fan, just like i can like or dislike the president and still love my country. Your perception is that anyone that does not agree with the new cheap Cubs Way is not a fan. And that is why I post comments about Cubs Maketing Sheep.

          • bbmoney

            You called everyone who disagrees with you marketing sheep…or something like that….I don’t know I was busy being sheared.

            I didn’t find that particularly nice. I find that condescending. It’s akin to saying someone can’t think for themselves…..which is a pretty douchey comment.

          • Tommy

            Your perception is that anyone that does not agree with the new cheap Cubs Way is not a fan. And that is why I post comments about Cubs Maketing Sheep.

            I don’t see where Cubbie Blues said that.

          • gutshot5820

            It’s pretty funny that everyone on this post is complaining about other people complaining.

            • bbmoney

              Hey I’m not complaining, you can insult people and call them sheep if you want. But when you ask what you said that wasn’t nice….I’ll oblige and tell you.

          • TWC

            Your perception is that anyone that does not agree with the new cheap Cubs Way is not a fan.

            Well, my irony meter is irrevocably shattered.

            Good. Night.

            • gutshot5820

              LOL you are the epitome of a tough guy online that hides behind his keyboard. I was thinking of not posting on this site anymore because of the same four or five guys that bash people all the time and then come back and say Im not bashing im just forming an opinion. LOL. I think I’ll stay for the entertainment value of getting you all riled up in your laptop computer.

              • Cubbie Blues

                And here I thought hippies were the opposite of tough guys.

          • Cubbie Blues

            I was talking about the negativity, not being mean. Although calling me a sheep isn’t too pleasant. I have been on this sight for a long time now. If you don’t know me you haven’t been paying attention. Again it’s not your point of view but the constant negativity not only from you but people of your ilk that many are growing tired of. Never once did i tell you to fudge off or anything close. I was only commenting. By the way thanks for letting me know how I feel about people with differing opinion. I never knew I had those thoughts.

        • Drew7

          If I recall, what he’s referring to happened a couple of months ago. He said he was done with this site (or something of that nature), and TWC advised him to be cautious of certain objects striking his posterior upon his departure.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

      Look at Scheirholtz splits against right handed pitching. That’s the point of signing him. He signed a fourth outfielder / platoon outfielder contract to be a fourth outfielder / platoon outfielder, and that is very much what it looks like he will be.

      Which is good, because that is who he is. And in that role, he’ll do well.

      On the other hand, if the Cubs make him the every day center fielder and expect him to bat cleanup, we’re going to have issues. I don’t expect that will happen, though. Nor does signing Scheirholtz (am I spelling that right?) mean that the Cubs are not going to sign/trade for anyone else. They’ve already said they are still looking for outfield help.

    • Ben

      Uhh…

      2nd half of season:
      Lahair – .202/.269/.303
      Schierholtz – .268/.352/.512 (SF), .279/.319/.379 (Phi)

      I think it’s pretty clear who the better player is. Add in defense, and it’s a clear win.

      Every fan is entitled to his/her opinion. I’m all for signing Bourne, but on our terms. Like Luke said, 4 years, but not 6. I don’t think we need to spend money just to spend money. Our payroll will near 85-90 million as is.

    • Andrew

      LaHair was clearly out of place as an outfielder. He is what he is, a firstbaseman that can’t hit enough against lefties to justify being in such an important offensive position. He would be a bench bat in the United States so the Cubs did the right thing and sent him to Japan where he can become a legend and make millions of dollars. This FO has placed a high priority on defense because it is often an undervalued facet of the game. That’s why I think they seee value in Stewart, Scheirholtz and even Bourn to a lesser extent (since a lot of his value will be from playing excellent CF defense).

  • WilliamGlass

    Hey, does anyone know anything about Shohel Otani?

    • TC

      Probably the most important thing to know about Shohei Otani is that the gun was really, really hot the day he “threw 100″. He was sitting more 94-ish that day according to a few in-person accounts, which is still great and makes him a wonderful prospect, but not the uber-prospect he sounds like.

      Problem is, he’ll break the int’l signing budget to sign, something the Cubs aren’t likely to do because it has severe ramifications for future spending

    • King Jeff

      He was drafted by a pro team in Japan, and they usually have a way of getting their pitchers to stay home. I think if he comes over, it would be when next years international signing budgets go into effect, so he has the most available options. That might also be a bit of wishful thinking on my part.

  • Fastball

    Hey I sling my fair share of crap. I get pissed like some. I don’t like being my favorite team being a loser. I agree if this was a publicly held team the shareholders would be calling a meeting. But it’s not. Until the owner has a bad P&L he will continue down this course of not spending. There are a lot of teams in baseball in large markets mostly that don’t have great farm systems. Actually the smaller market teams are the ones with the stocked farm systems. Okay the Rangers are loaded and Dallas Metroplex is pretty large market wise. For the large market teams its all kinda cyclical except for the Yankees. I don’t think the Cubs really got in the cycle except for once in the mid 2000’s and thats about it. Maybe in the 60’s and early 70’s but that wasn’t for very long and they never won anything. The Cubs are going to have to spend a lot of money sooner or later. The quandry is going to be FA’s that we need won’t exist when we need them. Then we will be SOL. If the plan included buying or trading for the players we are going to need in advance of the predicament stage this situation wouldn’t be quite so dire. We are signing pitchers who won’t be here more than 4 months for the most part. At what point do we sign pitchers that are going to be here for a long time. Is there a half dozen of these guys out there still in Jr. High that Theo and Jed know about that everyone else doesn’t. I know they drafted pretty much all pitchers this last season. Is that the plan again. With 30 some draft picks we need to find about 1/2 pitchers and 1/2 positional players better than the ones we already have in the system. If we are building a farm system that is credible then we need to trade a bunch of the kids in the system now who don’t project into the plans of the future. It really doesn’t do much good to have players who have no chance of making it to the big leagues. Right now in the minor league system we have players who are just filling out rosters. Theo needs to package up a bunch of those players and send them to teams that have shitty farm systems that are trying to add depth. I know that’s a tall task. I think we fall in love with players in this system who really aren’t going to be any good . When we figure this out and cut out the dead wood and have a strong farm system I expect Theo to make blockbuster trades to get what we need. In the meantime the FA market is the only way to improve the major league ball club. Yet that is not being done. We don’t have 3 or 4 players deep in the farm system ready to be moved up. So we need to buy those players until the time comes. We will never be saddled with contracts that can’t be moved. The Marlins proved you can move all those contracts in a hurry if you want to. The Redsox proved it last summer. I won’t buy into the theory that contracts can’t be moved.

  • http://facebook #1cubsfan2013

    alot of ppl on here are glass half empty kinda ppl

  • http://facebook #1cubsfan2013

    if u dont like this site and the ppl on it why r u here just to argue

  • Andrew

    I personally would like to see Bourn signed and trading Dejesus or Soriano. Right now our infield defense will be very strong and an outfield with Schierholtz/Sappelt, bourn and either soriano or dejesus will be very good, getting even better with Jackson coming in sometime in the year. This would also have the side effect of making our pitchers look a lot better than they necesarily are. If I’ve got that kind of range behind me, I would be less afraid to attack the strike zone because chances are the ball is gonna find a mitt. It would of course depend on the kind of contract Bourn signs for but I wouldnt be afraid to commit 4/5 years to him

  • Cubman508

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the civil war of bleacher nation……lol Ive read this site for 3 years and have never seen this kind of arguing. Also uh the Cubs are announcing the signing of Fujikawa tomorrow at Wrigley.

    • King Jeff

      You haven’t been paying very close attention. See, Matt Garza trade, or not trade. Also, see, Who should be the new GM. etc…

      • Cubman508

        Ehh I’d say this tops both, but only because it’s kinda tough to be a Cubs fan right now. I think everyone’s a little bit crabby, but oh we’ll in Theo we Trust!

    • Spencer

      It’s honestly bad and annoying on both sides. Some people like the front office and the direction the team is going; some do not. That’s all fine and dandy. That’s the way it should be.

      But it’s ridiculous when someone posts something and the army of people on the opposing side come up to crush it with all of their might, and lob a couple of insults into the mix to boot.
      If someone praises Theo, there’s an army of people saying why he sucks and why the Cubs are never going to be good again and saying everyone’s a Kool Aid drinker.

      If someone bashes Theo, then there’s the army that rises up and says why that viewpoint is so ridiculously flawed and how we should be patient and says, “if you don’t like it, go root for another team.”

      Does any of that do anyone any good? It’s fine to have differences of opinion, but when it stoops to the level of personal insults and circular debates over and over…you’re doing nothing but bringing down the quality of this website.

      • Spencer

        And six different people jumping on someone for having a difference of opinion does little to encourage thoughtful conversation (slight exaggeration with the number, but not much).

        • When the Music’s Over

          …and if not go Hoosiers

          • Spencer

            Booooooo

      • JK

        Agreed spence!

  • http://facebook #1cubsfan2013

    ”breaking news” cubs trade marmol,soriano,garza,barney for moustakas,myers and Donnie Joseph

    • http://facebook #1cubsfan2013

      how many of u guys actualy checked

    • http://bleachernation.com someday…2015?

      I wish that was true.

  • http://facebook #1cubsfan2013

    me too

  • atfinch

    Way off topic, but what about the Cubs sniffing around for Phil Hughes or Ivan Nova from NY? Not sure what the evil empire would want in return but both seem like they could be solid mid rotation guys in the NL. Thoughts?

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

      There was something about the Cubs checking on Phil Hughes the other day. Haven’t heard anything since then, but that doesn’t mean a whole lot. Most baseball fires produce no smoke.

      • atfinch

        Hughes seems like he’s been around forever but he’s still only 26. Wonder what NY would want in return. Guessing prospects, which the Cubs obviously would rather not give up. I’d be interested in seeing Hughes or Nova here though. Something to build around.

        • TWC

          It seems like I remember his name coming up ~Spring Training time last year, no? I can’t remember if it was in the comments as a “what if…?” or if there was an actual reported rumor on it.

          • atfinch

            I’m still reading around online, there was a quick rumor of a Hughes for Dempster swap. So sounds like Theo and co. may be interested in him.

            • atfinch

              At this past trade deadline, obviously.

  • jacob

    so am I secretly hoping that the rangers get grienke and upton and the mariners get hamilton?

    • http://bleachernation.com someday…2015?

      Well the secrets out now:)

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

      Best case for the Cubs would be Upton going to Texas in the mega-trade, but Greinke signing with Anaheim or LAD. I think that could make Texas more likely to consider dealing for Garza in the spring, and possibly paying a little higher to get him, especially if the Angels were also interested (and they might be, even if they can land Greinke).

      I think. This gets complex in a hurry.

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