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hall of fameAfter weeks of debate about steroids, eras, numbers, anecdotes, voting privileges, and any other number of frustrating things, the votes are in for the Hall of Fame … and it’s a goose egg. No one is getting in this time around, and both sides of the aisle are going to scream.

It is just the 8th time that the BBWAA has not voted anyone in, and the first time since 1996. Craig Biggio received the highest vote total, around 68% (75% is needed for election). Sammy Sosa got just 12.5%, which is actually a touch higher than I expected.

Despite the fact that, when you really consider the caliber of players available this year for votes, this is actually a loaded potential class, nobody is getting in. Because I’m still bitter about what happened to Ron Santo during his lifetime, in some ways, I struggle to care about this result.

UPDATE: Here’s the complete voting tally from the BBWAA:

2013 hall vote

  • MichiganGoat

    These BS votes for guys like Sele is really frustrating that writer needs his privileges revoked.

    • Roughrider

      Wait till Koyie Hill is on the ballot.

      • Blublud

        I think he’ll just short at around 74.8 %

        • Blublud

          Fall just short

    • Spencer

      It’s more frustrating that a dozen or so guys that actually deserve to get into the HOF didn’t.

    • calicubsfan007

      @Michigan Goat: Aaron Sele for HOF! Hahaha. Wow, these voters are a joke now. These idiots are all on ESPN trying to justify why they voted in the manner they did. Yet, none of them have a good reason as to why Biggio isnt in. I suggest former players and fan voting, no more media crap. They ruin everything.

      • Lou

        Don’t know if I go as far as you do. There are national media writers who do care and take a lot of time and consideration in applying the privilege to have a vote. You have to remember that not a specific baseball writers have a vote. Apparently, there are writers out of the game who also vote.

        The voters on MLB Network this afternoon were very thoughtful. In fact, many of them touted guys who should have gotten in today–like Biggio and Raines or gotten a higher percentage of votes, like McGriff. One even talked about Bill James in referencing Biggio, speaking about how underrated he was as a player. For example, in one season, he went the entire season without hitting in a DP. It’s something how a degree in journalism gets you such condemnation here.

        • calicubsfan007

          @Lou: You are right, I just get pretty steamed when good players get cheated from baseball’s highest honor.

    • jt

      on the other hand the vote for Sele could have gone to Sosa….thankful for small favors?

  • Beer Baron

    So I guess I’m in the minority but I’m happy with the results. I think the only one of the non-steroid generation that probably should be in is Raines — and that is very borderline. I’d accept Smith, but he was more a product of longevity rather than greatness. But the others aren’t really that great – very good, but not great.

    But the obvious issue is the steroid generation. In my opinion, this isn’t a court of law so they don’t get the benefit of being innocent until proven guilty. And again In my opion, the only way to differentiate between those that did or didn’t is common sense and the use of the eyeball test to decide – if it just seems to good to be true then I believe it probably is. With that, I don’t think any of the newly elligible guys are clean, including Biggio (wife said he used), Bagwell (clearly got bigger), Piazza (just looked like a steroid user and 60th round picks don’t do that), Martinez (OPS kept going up well into his 30s) and Schilling (a power pitcher playing into his 40s in this era smells dirty to me). Some might be innocent, but the unfortunate fact is because their union took the stance to forbid testing for over a decade there will be some innocent men lumped in with the guilty – but that is the choice they collectively made.

    Now finally, I don’t think having used steroids is a necessary disqualifier – it shouldn’t really be a punishment or lifetime ban unless you’re going to start kicking some other guys out. But instead I would try to distill the facts through the prism of ‘how would he have played without using PEDs’? Sure that would make it entirely based off of my opinion, but isn’t that the whole point of having people vote? If you lose opinion, then you might as well just have guys automatically qualify for the hall when they hit a certain milestone. Based on all that, the only one who I put in knowing he was a roid user is Bonds, and I’d still hold off on that one because he is a convicted felon. Clemens probably would get in, but I honestly think without the steroids he is Curt Schilling, who just got 38% of the vote so he’s obviously not a slam dunk (and I suspect he was using during both of his heroic World Series runs).

    So overall I am happy, but I do agree with the sentiment that its time to fix the broken system before the hall makes itself completely irrelevant. Although next year’s vote should be a little easier as I think the top four are all releaviely safe – Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Frank Thomas and of course the great Jacque Jones.

  • Joe

    Fred McGriff deserves it more than any of those guys in my opinion. 493 career home over 19 years, 1550 RBIs, 5-time All Star, 3 Silver Sluggers. And he definitely did not use roids

    • Joe

      8 years with 100 RBIs or more and 9 seasons with 30 or more home runs, and he did it while playing half of his career in the National League and half in the American

      • http://bleachernation Ferris

        Crime dog gets my vote

  • Cooper

    I think the problem is that we are so hung up on statistics. They work as a nice quantification of greatness, but the context varies so much from era to era that they are not an absolute measure.

    I prefer more of an eyeball test. Bonds was by far the most dominant hitter of his era. That says HoFer. Clemens, too.

    But I very much dislike both of them as people. I would have much more respect for them and feel much more forgiveness if they would just admit to what they had done. Their cheapening of the sport and their brazen disrespect to the public (treating us like idiots that will believe anything they say) is what earns them (for me) some demerit.

    So I am fine with them suffering a little before getting in. But ultimately, if we are talking best of the best for the HoF, then they should find their way into Cooperstown.

    • Drew7

      “…but the context varies so much from era to era that they are not an absolute measure.”

      “I prefer more of an eyeball test.”

      There is a middle-ground here: While not perfect, adjusting statistics by era using OPS+ and other statistics that adjust to league average gives you a pretty good idea of how impressive they were.

  • Spoda17

    Ya know… I don’t really care to much about this topic, or at least I didn’t think I did… But I just read Jason Stark’s article, and it got me a little fired up. I am a baseball history kinda guy, and I am a nut about the numbers and records. Stark asks some good questions, and in an effort to not write a book on this topic there was one point that really stood out.

    He talked about history and we cannot just pretend the 90′s didn’t happen. Well, I agree… but the point that I repeatedly see that is totally missed by all of us experts who are opining on this topic is one simple fact… it is the HALL OF FAME… it is not a baseball museum, it is not a baseball tribute building, it is not a collection of memorabilia. Although all of those things are in the HOF, it is not a museum, it is the Hall of Fame.

    If yo have not ever been there, you should go. The town is very nice, and the HOF is awesome. And oh by the way, Pete Rose is in the HOF, and so is Shoeless Joe Jackson and the BlackSox… the history is there. We are talking who is ELECTED into an elite group of professional baseball players as Hall of Famers.

    The problem is that we compare the records from the 30s and 40s and 50s… and so on. So yes the 90s did exist, and we all enjoyed it, but to compare Bonds to Ruth is just not a fair level comparison. To compare Clemens to Palmer is not a fair comparison. So to be fair to the history of the sport, you have to compare on a level playing field. The HOF is just that, the Hall of Fame, it is not a baseball “history” museum.

    • brickhouse

      The baseball Hall of Fame is a museum. It is not associated with major league baseball. It’s job is to display the history of the game. Drugs have been part of the history of the game and as long as baseball couts this era’s records then put in the best of this era.

      • Spoda17

        It is the hall of fame that has historical items in it. You don’t get elected into the Smythsonian. You get elected into the HoF.

      • Scotti

        Brickhouse, times change. Cap Anson (racist) wouldn’t be elected today and rightfully so. Neither, for that matter, would Burleigh Grimes (spitball) and rightfully so. Times change and what was once acceptable may no longer be so. Players used to get beer upon reaching third base. No more. Jose Canseco made these guys rich. They’ve had their adulation. They just wouldn’t have put up anywhere near the numbers they did without steroids (which is completely dissimilar to any other drug previously used in MLB anyway).

        Heck, I’d be banned from Bleacher Nation for espousing some of Anson’s beliefs. Time change in MLB and, in the case of race, spitballs and steroids, all for the better.

  • UAFoo

    I think this is just stupid. I hate cheaters, but you know how hard it is to hit a baseball? Especially 350+ feet with wooden bat. I am not saying PED’s are right, but who is not to say that people in the HOF didn’t take roids as well?They didn’t have the testing back then. It also may not have been against the rules either, but it helped stats too. I am also not sure why Biggio didn’t get in.

  • cubzforlife

    Aside from Lee Smith’s stats he is a class act. My 8 year old had a seizure while in a room with Lee Smith and his wife. He saw me holding her and asked “whats wrong with Rachel?”. Remembered her name. His solution was memorable too. She recovers in a minute and after he saw she was Ok he told his wife to give Rachel her hotdog. Food fixes everything. Just a sweet man.

    • Scotti

      +1

  • VBM4977

    AARON SELE gets a Hall of Fame vote!!

    What card-carrying BBBWA member will step up and provide us with the criteria used to punch this earth-shaking vote.

    This one vote might cause the entire election process to be revised, reformed or at least be made totally transparent.

  • MichiganGoat

    Oh and Jack M

  • MichiganGoat

    Oh and Jack Morris get the #2 votes overall – clearly the writers are idiots.

  • Mike

    I simply can not fathom how could Biggio not get in.

  • Carew

    Im surprised Biggio didnt get in…and why doesnt Lee Smith get more votes??

    • http://bleachernation Ferris

      yes both should get in for sure

  • http://bleachernation Ferris

    If I said a guy had………2,445 hits, 173 hr, 511 2b, 1,146 rbi, 1075 walks,only 643 k,,,a .303 lifetime ba., .383 lifetime obp, .825 lifetime ops, 3 time all star, 4 times 18th or higher in mvp voting,4 gold gloves…..and (never) in 18 seasons struck out more than walked, and had more hits than “anyone” for a whole decade……….would you call him a hof ? I sure would……

    • http://thecubcontrarian.blogspot.com Kyle

      There’s a lot of information missing. What years did he play? What position did he play?

      As stated, probably not. 18th or higher in the MVP voting just four times? Doesn’t sound like a HOFer to me.

      • http://bleachernation Ferris

        more hits in the 90′s than anyne….only reason he didnt et higher on vp is he’s a first baseman..

    • Patrick W.

      You left out WS winning 1st baseman with Arizona.

      • http://bleachernation Ferris

        didnt wanna give it way……glad you new who i was talkin about tho

    • AP

      He’s a prime example of my beef with the way the voters are behaving. As is, I don’t think Grace gets in, but if you compare him strictly to other HoF First Basemen, it’s not as cut and dried as the 4.1% of the vote he got would suggest. But that’s the problem, the voters say Grace doesn’t get in because he was overshadowed by all the home run hitters who stood at first base when they couldn’t be in the batter’s box. Then, they don’t let any of those guys in because they are linked to steroids. So they’re penalizing McGwire for taking steroids and they’re penalizing Grace for not taking steroids. Personally I think that’s exactly what just happened to Biggio. I hate that guy for being an Astro, but he should have gotten in given the positions he played and the offense he produced. If guys like Hernandez, Olerud, Clark, Grace, and Biggio (I know, not a first baseman but most relevant today) can’t get in because they didn’t hit home runs, and the home run hitters can’t get in because they took steroids, with what are we left?

      • Behind enemy lines (south side cub fan)

        Today’s result, unfortunately.

  • Die hard

    Pete Rose b4 juicers cause he played clean

    • Carew

      Rose gambled on his sport, which is illegal, and lied about it for several, several years

      • Lou

        Apparently so did Tris Speaker and Ty Cobb, yet inexplicably there in the HOF.

        • Lou

          Sorry , they’re.

        • Scotti

          Times change. And so so rules: “It was after this case, though, that Landis instituted the rule mandating that any player found guilty of betting on baseball would be suspended for a year and that any player found to have bet on his own team would be barred for life.”

          Thus Rose is banned for life (not from the Hall but MLB) as a result of the rule changes from the Speaker/Cobb ordeal.

          • Scotti

            And so *do* rules…

          • Carew

            I did not know Speaker did, but Cobb doesn’t surprise me…

            Thanks for the rule input, Scotti.

            • calicubsfan007

              Yeah, I didn’t know about Cobb and Speaker. Isn’t Speaker the one who was killed after getting beaned in the head?

              • The Dude Abides

                Ray Chapman died after being hit by a pitch.

                Speaker along with Cobb was supposed to have fixed a game between their teams. Speaker was also rumored to be an active member of the KKK during his career. Great player but had a few warts, different era to say the least.

          • Lou

            Actually, by being banned from conducting MLB activities, Rose is theretofore banned from the Hall. Not sure I like the upholding of the rule though.

            • MichiganGoat

              It’s more complicated than that (I use to think the ban he agreed to cut him from the HOF) Rose agreed to his ban before the BBWAA voted to leave off any banned players. But I see Rose not being in the hall as an easy decision because of what he admitted and agreed to, but most of these “juicers” were never offically caught and punished by MLB- in Bonds and Clemens case they went to court and found not guilty so this is just the BBWAA being their own judge, jury, and executioner – disgusting day for baseball.

              • Lou

                I agree that it’s a disgusting day. But why leave it to arguments decided by a court of law while the owners, MLBPA, and certainly some (NOT ALL) of the writers looked the other way? Should the situation have even gotten to the point where the feds felt the need to step into the issue? Not so sure. While Rose may have agreed to the ban, and that certainly does make a difference in his case, I just think the rule banning him is archaic. Actually, the more egregious error he committed was pretty much unveiling in a documentary that he was an amphetamine user. So, if you’re the BBWAA and you’re going to shun the suspicions of steroids in the 90s and then make an example of these players, Rose should be banned for his suspected drug use not his betting on baseball.

                According to Joe Sheehan, it pretty clear that in the history of MLB cheating (while steroid users have the most inflated numbers), those that used amphetamines in the 80s, also bumped up their numbers. The stats just weren’t as pronounced. They were numbers like increased games played in one’s career, hits, and SBs. But certainly enough that could allow these “suspected players” to slide into the HOF through the increased longevity of their careers. So, I agree that it’s complicated. I just don’t see where this gets Rose, though. Other than the obvious lifetime ban from baseball, regardless of when his agreement was made with MLB or under the circumstances of which the agreement came to be.

      • http://bleachernation Ferris

        I never condone lying, but Rose gambled as a manager, and was punished for that and then some as a player.Pete has more hits than “anyone” ever in mlb history an all star at five different postions, he lied because he feared not being in the hof, he came clean with the agreement w/Bart Giamani believing he’d be let in. Bart passed shortly after an here Pete is still on the outside looking in.21 years past his eligablity,he’s paid his dues,it’s ime for the self righteous vet. committee to open the door to Rose.People often get less for murder.

    • Jimmy James

      Agreed

  • http://bleachernation Ferris

    absolutely

  • calicubsfan007

    I suggest former players and fans vote the guys in. Sure, there will be moments where they screw it up, but I think that they will be better than the writers.

    • DarthHater

      I think we should just turn the HOF over to Kyle and George Will. ;-)

      • Internet Random

        They could hardly do worse than what went on today.

      • calicubsfan007

        @Hater: That would probably be better than what is existing now. (=

        • DarthHater

          Substantively, yes, the decisions would probably be better. But they would be so-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o long to read… ;-)

          • calicubsfan007

            *still reading* (=

    • MichiganGoat

      33% Writers, 33% Current HOF members, 33% fans, 1% Goats – problem fixed

      • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

        Careful what you wish for. That formula would probably put every “hustle”, “heart”, “scrappy”, and “effort” guy on the ballot permanently.

      • DarthHater

        I strongly suspect that goats that can talk and vote must be using performance enhancing substances and therefore have a significant conflict of interest regarding the HOF.

  • Lou

    “Because I’m still bitter about what happened to Ron Santo during his lifetime, in some ways, I struggle to care about this result.” You should care that Raines and Biggio didn’t get in, along with Minnie Minoso.

  • Carew

    I believe the HOF should forget about steroids holding everything up. For pitchers I can understand the reasoning, but the hitters still have to swing a bat and hit a moving object, which doesn’t require any steroids. I think they should vote in the best player(s) that are on the ballot and just put an asterisk next to their name, explaining that they were steroid users. Years from now nobody will care.

  • http://Isa Voice of reason

    Bonds is the best home run hitter ever and should have been a first ballot hall of famer.

    There is no question that all those home runs went over the fence. There is also no question that he didn’t break any baseball rules when he hit them.

    The same for Clemens and Sosa and McGwire and piazza. Put them in.

    You base the hall of fame on stats and each of those men belong in the hall of fame, period. They are elected in because of the stats and because they broke no rules. Then you let the public decide if they think those people deserve to be in, just like you can debate Ron santo or any other player.

    If you want to blame someone, blame selig and baseball for not stepping in when they knew they were using steroids. They should have changed the rules and made steroids illegal, but they didn’t. The records were broken withoutmany rules being broken so now it’s too late. So, bonds is no different than anyone who popped speed in the 60′s to help gain an advantage.

    • DarthHater

      Bonds hit more home runs than any other player and, for that reason alone, he merits admission to the HOF. But if you think Bonds “is the best home run hitter ever,” then you’re voice is that of delusion, not reason.

      • http://Isa Voice of reason

        He hit more home runs than any other person in major league history. That makes him the best home run hitter ever, period.

        That’s not delusional, that’s factual.

        • DarthHater

          Hitting the most home runs ever is an objective fact. Being the best home run hitter ever is a subjective value judgment, not a factual judgment. Insisting that one’s subjective value judgments are facts is form of delusion/stupidity that it all-too-common among internet bloviators who give themselves names like “Voice of reason.”

          • DarthHater

            *is a form of delusion/stupidity that is all-too-common . . .

          • http://Isa Voice of reason

            A man or woman with the username darth hater is questiong the user name of another?

            A psychologist once told me that weak minded people attack others as they don’t know how else to act when put in such situations. Name calling is not a strong personality trait. In fact, it’s very childish and speaks of your character.

            I’ll take the high road with you, darth hater, and I will never respond to another post of yours.

            I’d prefer you return the favor.

            • Carew

              He’s just the site jokester, and is obviously a Star Wars fan.

              • DarthHater

                “He’s just the site jokester”

                Hey, no name-calling! ;-)

                P.S. This was a response to Carew, not to VOR. :-P

        • Pat

          Did Bonds ever out homer entire teams? Ruth did on more than one occasion. Adjusted for era, there isn’t even an argument.

          • http://Isa Voice of reason

            Share your adjusting era formula!

            • Pat

              I did. I compared the players home run output to that of their average peer. When Bonds hit 70 you had multiple other guys hitting 50 plus. Ruth had years where no one was even close, where he hit more homers than entire teams. Did Bonds ever do that? Did Bonds even come remotely close to doing that?

            • Pat

              In fact, in 1920 and 1927, Ruth out homered EVERY team in the league.

        • http://bleachernation Ferris

          I wouldnt say delusional,we are all entitled to our opinion, that being said Babe Ruth was out homering complete teams during the dead ball era, I say he set the mark, Bonds was a great player who was a HOF before he decided to cheat out of shear jealousy of mcgwire an sosa getting all that attention,to bad his ego couldnt handle just being one of the top ten ever,he cheated and bloated his stats period…..Ruth did not….

    • Gcheezpuff

      I don’t think you can blame Selig. Drug testing and punishment have to be agreed upon by the players union, which at the time was a no go. I do think it would be cool to see some GMs stand up against PED use by righting into contracts that they can void a players contract if they test positive for a banned substance. I also think the MLB suspension should be longer and that any d offense should be an immediate ban for life and any records removed from the books. Not a whole lot can be done about the past, but I would like to raise my son following a sport that doesn’t reward players millions for cheating. Most of these guys would do it again knowing they wouldn’t make the Hall but would still make the $$, but if their contract was voided for cheating and they didn’t get paid, I think you could really clean up the sport.

  • Adventurecizin’ Justin

    The Hall of Fame hasn’t meant much to me for a long time. Today, it officially means nothing.

  • ActionJackson

    who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!! Players who used Steroids are already in the HOF. more than just 104 players (who supposedly tested positive in 2003) used. Not all players were tested in 2003 by the way…… just a handful of players. Steroids have been widely used in all sports since the early 60′s. To say only players from 1998 – 2005 used steroids is very niave and ignorant. Not all steroids make you huge and muscle bound. So honestly no one here or in the media or anywhere can be 100% certain that anyone for the last 50 years never used steroids or other performance enhancers. Since John Ziegler invented Dianabol and (Ciba) made it available in 1958 in the USA it has been widely used throughout sports.

    Once there was better testing available for the Olympics the Olympic drug testing committee in the early 90′s took old test vials from the 84 olympics just to see what they missed 10 years earlier and after testing the first 50 or so vials and having over 90% test positive for a substance they discontinued testing. Just shows you that people have no idea who uses and who doesn’t or who has used and who hasn’t.

    I personally have alot of experience with steroids and know alot of people who have used and trust me when i tell you there are alot of steroids out there that improve performance and strength and recovery that won’t make you muscle bound. So to sit here and say this person belongs and this person doesn’t is very niave and ignorant. By that logic, If you aren’t going to let one person in because of possible steroid use then there shouldn’t be one person in the HOF that has played in the last 50 years and maybe even add in players like Joe Dimaggio and Willie Mays and Babe Ruth and the countless others since the 1900′s that used amphetamines.

    Honestly if they are HOF worthy then they should be in the HOF. Not all steroid users put up HOF numbers!

    • Carew

      BOOM. However, that was very long-winded. I feel like the last sentence would have sufficed :)

      • ActionJackson

        HAHAHA….sorry. Steroid talk in baseball gets the blood pumping. :)

      • Jimmy James

        Ozzie Canseco?

  • Dan

    WOW I know this is a basbeall webesite that i read daily but i just found out some football news that for atleast me personally is a big kick in the groin on 2 levels 1 i am a huge notre dame football fan and if losing monday night wasnt bad enough i just heard we are on the verge of possibly losing the coach that returned us to glory could it get worse? yes it can im a huge cowboys fan and not only might i lose a great coach for my college team i would lose him to a HUGE rival of my nfl team can it get much worse PLEASE STAY AT ND BRIAN PLEASE

  • Carne Harris

    Good. Glad they kept the bar high. Glad they kept the cheaters out. No sport’s numbers are more hallowed by its fans than baseball. Saying we should let known cheaters in because you suspect unknown cheaters are already in the Hall anyway, or because different era’s are hard to compare number-wise, is like saying you’re not gonna wash the car because the tires are just gonna keep getting dirty. You fight the good fight and you do what you can, which is quite a bit as evidenced by this vote.

    • calicubsfan007

      @Carne: What about Biggio? I don’t care about the actual steroid users, I agree that they should not get in. There have been no accusations or proof that Biggio did any enhancing. That is what pisses me off.

      • Carne Harris

        My gut is that Biggio will get in if not next year than the year after. I think him not getting in this year has more to do with voters treating 1st-ballot HOF’s as a cream-of-the-crop prestige thing.

  • MichiganGoat

    BBWAA get a hoof to the taint as far as I’m concerned

  • fromthemitten

    ok yeah Bagwell’s merits are debatable but WTF CRAIG BIGGIO AND MIKE PIAZZA ARE FIRST BALLOT PLAYERS (Biggio declined late but he always played defensively valuable positions and moved to CF so they could sign Jeff Kent) I am so pissed off at the baseball writers. Never juiced in my life and I get backne sometimes

    • MichiganGoat

      3000 hits should be an automatic as should 600 HR

  • arta

    I’ve always felt that after the 5 year wait, if a guy is a HOF’er he should be in on first and only vote. if he’s not, take him of the ballet. if 10 get in, fine. if none get it, fine. JMO. it shouldn’t take 20 years of silly voting to get in…..

  • DCF

    The ridicilous results of this year’s vote are just the pinnacle of baseball’s inaptitude in dealing with the “roid area” as a whole. What effect do steroids really have? When did it start? What reason is there to believe it ever ended? Are testing programs established since then really working?
    The whole sportswriting world failed miserably in tackling any of the these questions. MLB of course wants to sweep shit under the rug as best as they can to avoid distracting the fans from spending money on their traditionally clean, safe, family-friendly pastime.

    So as long as “baseball” (as an imaginary unit of MLB, sports writers and fans) has no consensus on what to think of the steriod users or alleged users or players who might have known someone who used, well what’s the hall to do?
    I personally think they just vote them in, but I can understand why many people ( and obviously the majority of HOF voters) might feel otherwise.

  • FFP

    Beer Baron is not alone.
    my paraphrase: ‘If there ever was a stage/ballot on which to make a statement about what we didn’t do as players to get PED’s out of the game, then this is it.” “You either did PED’s or you didn’t do anything to stop it.’–Curt Schilling
    He feels as a player rep. he (and every member of the association) should have done more to get PED’s out of the game. He doesn’t seem put off by no guys getting in this year. (Except maybe that Biggio (he feels was a first rounder) got ‘caught up in this muck’
    Schilling just takes it as a message to all baseball (owners and fans,too). Honored to even be mentioned.
    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8829076&categoryid=2378529

    A guy who has been there has a perspective to take into consideration.

  • Die hard

    On the other hand Bonds Sosa et al performed and excelled against juicer pitchers- so if there’s a way to calculate homers against juicer pitchers so its apples to apples then vote may deserve another try

    • BluBlud

      Actually, I would think juiced up pitchers + juiced up hitter would = more homeruns. If the Pitcher is throwing harder and the hitter are swinging harder, the ball will react and carry further.

  • Die hard

    And that’s why there were so many

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