Quantcast

respect wrigleySome good news coming out of the Cubs/rooftops section of the Wrigley renovation saga – perhaps the first good news on that front since the process began back in January. The Cubs met with the rooftops this week, and apparently it was a very positive, productive meeting.

Beth Murphy, one of the more visible rooftop owners, spoke to Paul Sullivan and said she left a meeting this week convinced the Cubs aren’t trying to put any rooftops out of business with their outfield signage.

“I think we’re at a point in the process where we’re just going to have to work out the details [of the plan],” Murphy said, according to Sullivan. “I no longer believe the Cubs want to block us. I wasn’t sure before, but I no longer believe that. I truly am optimistic they want to work this out.”

Sullivan’s piece goes on to discuss plans between the Cubs and the rooftops, including the Cubs mocking up signs in the outfield so the owners can see how their views might be impacted. The overall tenure of the piece, including additional thoughts from Murphy, is positive. Although it is just one owner, Murphy often speaks in such a way that you get the sense that her words are the collective words of the rooftop owners. It’s worth a read to finally feel a little good about this process.

For the first time in quite a while, I’m cautiously optimistic that the Cubs and the rooftops will be able to come to an amicable resolution that allows both sides to proceed under the current revenue-sharing agreement, which lasts until 2024, and will allow the Cubs to get the outfield signage they need.

Of course, there are still a variety of community issues and processes to with which to deal over the next month, but the rooftop issue always figure to be the thorniest.

Disclosure: Some of the rooftops advertise on Bleacher Nation, but that has not impacted the way I’ve covered this ongoing story.

  • Bigg J

    There was also a rumor that an agreement was going to be made, but that really hasn’t happened yet. I say the Cubs find out how much it would be to break their contract with rooftop and do what they want. They are going to make more money from advertisement with their board then they will with 17% of rooftop payouts. This has turned into a headache because not all the rooftop owners are happy, well 17% payout to the Cubs is a steal for them because before they started charging it was a free game for fans to watch and the Cubs could have taken a lot more then 17%.

  • DarthHater

    Begin countdown to next story about something going wrong, press releases threatening litigation, etc. . . .

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      Certainly not impossible.

  • George Altman

    It is beyond me how professional journalists for major newspapers (e.g. Telander, Haugh) don’t get this. The landmark, planning committee, city council/mayor is a fait accompli. The formal plans/drawing is what Ricketts submitted this week. Beth Murphy and her pud-whack partners can posture all they want but they won’t get an injunction and if they want to sue for damages then Ricketts’ lawyers will keep them swimming in legal briefs until they run out of money.

    And why wouldn’t Ricketts respond about ‘moving’ in response to the hypothetical question about signage/jumbotron. A guy wants to spend his own money to fix his own house to make more money, and he has to deal with the Beth Murray’s of the world? Oh, hell no.

    If anyone has been to the dump that is currently Wrigley Field in the last couple of years, then you know how badly the place needs to be renovated – or build a new stadium (Rosemont, Schaumburg, Naperville – don’t care where). If I was the ‘Wrigleyville Community’ I would STFU and thank God, Ricketts, and Emanuel (not necessarily in that order) that the Cubs WANT to renovate the museum and stay in that neighborhood. Enjoy making your yearly income in a 6 1/2 month baseball season and current property values.

    Seriously, the rest of Chicagoland, Cubs fans, baseball fans, and businessmen the world over get what’s going on here.

  • MJ

    They don’t have a leg to stand on and never did. If they do take it to court, they’d better name Rahm Emanel and the City of Chicago in the lawsuit, too. He stood there yesterday and, for all intents and purposes, told everyone how it’s going to be. “They will get a jumbotron in left. They will have a sign in right.” Can’t get much clearer than that. Do they have the wherewithal for a long court battle and continue to upkeep their businesses? I doubt it.

    Also, I’m sure Beth Murphy is full of…..happy feelings. If you look closely at the rendering, nothing is blocking Murhphy’s Bleachers. Who is she going to sue? How much is she willing to stand and fight for whomever is partially blocked now?

  • Jim

    I can appreciate the nostalgia of Wrigley Field and I have a lot of great memories of seeing games there, but I think it is time to consider other avenues of bringing this franchise up to par with the rest of the league. It has been almost 100 years in this park with zero World Series wins! I am all for relocating with a retractable roof and exceeded league standards for the fans and players facilities. It is not like you couldn’t build in Wrigley like features into the new stadium. The rooftop owners can still get nice views of Jimmy Buffet concerts and Monster truck rallies …

    • gocatsgo2003

      Let’s just face facts — at this point, Wrigley is one of the better selling points for the team (nostalgia, ease of access, etc.). If this team were to be picked up and dropped in a modern stadium in, say, Rosemont, I think they would be hard-pressed to replicate today’s attendance figures.

  • Rebuilding

    There are so many on here that reflexively defend every thing to do with the Cubs. It’s really incredible. Bringing in Camp in that situation is a horrible decision. Terrible. Removing a dominant starting pitcher at 96 pitches when he had pitched himself out of an inning except for a wind blown pop up is stupid. What the hell is the deal with you guys? Are you Cubs fans or Epstein and Sveum fans?

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      Best way to start a productive conversation and to engender respect: call everyone sheep and insult their intelligence.

      • Rebuilding

        I wish I would have. Where did you see that? But Sveum is “pushing all of the right buttons” right?

        • MichiganGoat

          The second best way – insult the creator of the site.

          • Rebuilding

            Have you ever made a positive contribution? Sorry, I haven’t seen it

            • http://www.bleachernation.com Thompsonville, Il_Cubs

              I tend to enjoy Brett and Michigan goats views and insights on cubs topics, so to answer your question yes both make positive contributions everyday!

              • MichiganGoat

                Thanks I just don’t always agree with some people and that makes some people very angry.

                • BluBlud

                  MG, it makes me angry just to see you post here. I’m tired of all the beer drinking, instigating, disagreeing folks on this. You are definitely the ring leader.

                  Trouble Maker ;)

              • http://www.bleachernation.com Thompsonville, Il_Cubs

                your welcome goat, that is what this site is for. We share our views and opinions and its all in fun.

        • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

          I love that you have now raised that at least twice, and both times out of context. Ignore that I caveated that statement, ignore the context in which it appeared, and ignore that it was the predicate to me criticizing a Sveum decision.

          http://www.bleachernation.com/2013/04/29/giancarlo-stanton-and-the-looming-specter-of-greg-dobbs-and-other-bullets/

          • Rebuilding

            No, you’re being defensive. I love your site and insight, Brett. You are the best reporter covering the Cubs. But when you say that Sveum during his tenure has pushed most of the right buttons I just don’t know what you mean. Obviously, I think Sveum is horrible in game. You use that caveat to defend the decision to pitch to Stanton (which was bad) but you didn’t caveat the fact you said that he pushed all of the right buttons on a 101 loss team or a team that has starting pitching near the top of the NL but keeps losing tight games. Serious question – do you think Dale Sveum is a good manager? And why?

            • MichiganGoat

              See your final question is a good one that could have resulted in meaningful discussion. Now many will disagree with you and you can retort with your logical points, BUT when you start you post by insulting any fan that disagrees with you the conversation will always go in the direction it has tonight.

              Now to answer your question:
              1-he’s done a good job not allowing pitchers to go much past 100 pitches and if they show signs of losing control (as TWood did tonight as Kyle pointed out) he’s quick to pull them. Compare this to Dusty who would have kept TWood in even if he got to 120 pitches – this protects and elongates starters as the season progresses.
              2-he’s tried to give the bullpen chances to redeem themselves but as we say with Marmol his patience is not eternal.
              3-he’s playing platoons correctly and using stats to justify decisions, sometimes it doesn’t work out but it’s still the right decision.

              Now WHY is he such a horrible manager?

            • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

              I think he understands and does well the things a manager can control: he makes out a good lineup. He uses great defensive positioning. He utilizes platoons, even when they are unpopular or small-sample-size-drive ineffective. He doesn’t refuse to pull a starting pitcher who is visibly gassed or whose repertoire and experience indicate he can fall off quickly during the third and fourth time through the order. He uses the bullpen adequately, considering what he’s been given.

              That the Cubs lost 101 games last year, to me, remains both completely understandable as part of “The Plan,” and not even remotely a reflection on Sveum’s ability as a manager.

              We simply disagree on what our respective eyes have told us. I was miserable during the Baker/Piniella/Quade years as I watched managerial decisions. I haven’t felt that way in the least during Sveum’s tenure.

              • Rebuilding

                I’m not sure why you guys think I’m not about rational discussion. I was attacked for 6 straight months for mentioning the Cubs cut payroll to pay debt. I think that Brett can verify that. Fine, I won’t mention it again.

                I’m the biggest fan of pitch counts in the world. As someone who was Mark Prior’s biggest fan, what Dusty did to him breaks my heart. Bartman, Gonzalez, etc…Prior died on the mound in Game 6 2003. Dusty did that. With that said – pulling a guy at 96 pitches when he gives up a grounder up the middle and a 3-2 walk is not the same. No one had hit the ball hard and he wasn’t wild.

                I think has pulled every wrong button with the crappy bullpen we have this year. He has pulled starters too early, put people in the wrong situation, and been strangely disengious about Marmol’s role.

                Sorry if that pisses people off

                • DarthHater

                  Dude, it’s not your views about the Cubs or about Sveum that piss some people off. It’s the attitude behind: “There are so many on here that reflexively defend every thing to do with the Cubs.” You didn’t display that attitude when Kyle disagreed with you about Sveum. Take that feeling and run with it…

                  • DarthHater

                    Except for Goat, of course. He’s just cantankerous. :-P

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Yeah there is that , but everything you said above is exactly the point.

                  • Rebuilding

                    I’m running with it. Do you really think that there aren’t people in here that will defend Ricketts/Epstein/Sveum no matter what they do? You’re smarter than that

                    • DarthHater

                      I think there are a few people like that, but not that many. Their existence does not offend me.

                      And you’re not running with it when you say that everybody thinks Sveum is great even though a majority of people who posted about today’s game agreed with you about Sveum.

                • MichiganGoat

                  Okay so if the bullpen didn’t meltdown so frequently would you still be mad at Sveum? I’d suggest our more upset with crappy play from the bullpen vs. being mad at Sveum. Is there anything else beside the pulling pitchers & bullpen play that upsets you about his managerial skills.

                  • Rebuilding

                    Goat, the whole point is that he is pulling really good starters too early. He’s pulled Wood and Villanueava both twice under 100 pitches with a crappy bullpen

                    • MichiganGoat

                      And if the bullpen didn’t fall apart he would have saved arms and used the bullpen effectively. My premise is that you are frustrated by the losing and blame dale for the poor play of the bullpen.

                    • White flag

                      I’d rather see him pull them under a hundred than have him pull a Dusty Baker.

                  • northsiders6

                    I agree with the decision to pull Wood, but I think what he is saying is that knowing the bullpen has had issues, he should have kept Wood in the game. If the bullpen had been more reliable, RB would be more accepting when wood was pulled. The frustration stems from trusting a bullpen that is not performing well right now. Still, I back pulling Wood.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      See a response like that would result in a productive discussion, because I think that Dale is doing the right things by pulling pitchers when they get close to 100 and show signs of struggle regardless of the faith you have in your pen. You have to keep putting your relievers in high stress situation- thats their job and Dale is giving them the opportunity to rise to the occasion… you know embrace the belly fire within… based on statistical matchups and scouting reports. In the course of the season its a good idea not start pushing your pitchers and ignoring yo

                    • MichiganGoat

                      your bullpen

      • Rebuilding

        And not everyone, Brett. But if you don’t think there is a bias of belief here than you’re naive. Its lije a religious cult. Sveum’s in game decisions have been horrible. People that try to bring reality to the conversation are often shouted down here. Sveum or Epstein could sacrifice a goat on the mound during the seventh inning stretch and if I criticized it there are some who would be out immediately to tell me (1) they could have sacrificed a pig so this was better, (2) Sveum had no better options or (3) we suck so it doesn’t matter.

        • MichiganGoat

          Third way – insult a goat

          • DarthHater

            Not necessary. Just being a goat is insult enough. ;-)

        • TWC

          Wouldn’t it be much easier to see this place as a site at which folks can agree, disagree, argue, comment, think, reconsider, propose, review, and so forth, without looking it as a “me/them” thing? Are you so damned insecure that you see folks who don’t agree with you as part of a “religious cult” who’s out to get you? I mean, really, grow up, man! If you have the balls to comment on a public site, you should have the balls to accept that some people might disagree.

          • DarthHater

            Don’t listen to TWC, man! He’s trying to sneakily recruit you into one of them California cults!

        • DarthHater

          So, what you are saying is that, because there will always be some people who disagree with you, the world is a fundamentally puzzling and screwed up place.

        • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

          You have a problem with characterizing opinion as “reality,” and you fail to see how that insults every reasonable, intelligent person with whom you disagree on substantive issues. It’s a shame, because you otherwise appear to be a bright enough guy. It’s not all black and white – and sometimes the conversation, the back and forth, is the entire point.

          I disagree with you about some things. I am not an idiot. Accept that dichotomy, and we can have some great discussions in spite of our disagreements. Hope that helps us in the future.

      • Rebuilding

        And I will say – I told you 6 months ago that we were slashing payroll to make debt payments. You’re not more of a Cubs fan than me. I just see it more realistically because that’s not how I make my living

        • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

          I’ll ignore this one in the spirit of my previous comment. Practicing what I preach, as it were.

        • Boogens

          Why is it such a bad thing for the Cubs to use their revenue to pay down debt? When one company takes over another many times the target’s own cash reserves are used to fund the takeover. If a business owner starts up his own business he/she may need a loan and will use the revenue generated by the business to pay off the debt. Yes, the Ricketts must have the ability to pay for it out of their own pockets but that doesn’t make it a logical or sustainable business model.

          That being said, I agree with the points that Kyle and others have made for a long time about it being possible to improve on parallel fronts. That gets us back to the same old question that we’ve discussed many times in Brett’s forum – the opportunity cost of how the revenue is spent. What free agents did we miss out on that we should have pursued but didn’t (possibly because we instead paid down debt)?

          • bbmoney

            The only reason I have a problem with it (and I think many others feel the same) is because of Rickett’s line saying every dollar of baseball revenues was getting put back into the team. Most people interpret that to mean, the on the field product and the system, which wouldn’t included debt payments.

            Otherwise I would have no issue with it at all.

          • Kyle

            The argument I’d make is that cutting payroll to pay down the debt is foolish because of the damage is does to your revenue stream. It’s just a self-cannibalizing move.

            We’re on pace to draw less than 2.6 million fans, down 300k from last year and 750k from the 2009 peak. And that’s the announced attendance. You can see every day at Wrigley that the real attendance is barely a fraction of that.

            • Boogens

              Your point assumes that any additional money allocated to payroll is well spent (i.e. it leads to improved play on the field thus generating fan interest / increased attendance). What we’ve directly seen in Chicago and throughout baseball is that that’s not usually the case. We’ve wasted a lot of money on players over the years.

              In your example it appears that the issue isn’t that the Cubs are using their revenues to pay down the debt as much as the team is cutting back on payroll expense which leads to poor on-field performance and diminished attendance. I would argue that both (paying down the debt and not cutting payroll) can be done (similar to the parallel lines theory). If the payroll wasn’t cut and the money was spent efficiently then the attendance may not drop as much or at all. There still could be room to use revenue to pay down the debt. I don’t see it as an either / or problem.

              I think the real heart of the poor on-field performance is that the FO is intentionally putting a poor product on the field so that we can attain a higher draft position to build from within. I realize that Theo’s recent comments about the baseball budget can be construed as contradictory to that statement yet I believe it is more of a management choice than need to supress the payroll, especially in light of the recent Forbes profitability analysis.

    • TWC

      I’m a fan of watching commenters on this Cubs blog lose their shit over every little thing they perceive to be a “horrible decision” by the manager, front office, or owner.

      I’m a fan of watching the meltdowns by the whiny-victim “You’re just Theo Kool-Aid drinkers!” crew who feel so horribly put out that not everyone agrees with their pessimism.

      I’m also a fan of the Cubs. As are you. I happen to think that pulling Wood at the time was a fine decision that most managers would have made at that point. You disagree. Fine. But you might notice that neither I nor anyone else is questioning whether or not you’re actually a Cubs fan because you disagree.

      • Rebuilding

        No, you’re a fan of trying to make pithy comments that you only find funny and then patting yourself on the back. Well done, TWC

        • TWC

          My comment remains: “But you might notice that neither I nor anyone else is questioning whether or not you’re actually a Cubs fan because you disagree.”

          • Rebuilding

            Disagree with what? Do you think Sveum is a good to great manager? Do you think he should be handling a bullpen/bench in 2016?

            • TWC

              “I happen to think that pulling Wood at the time was a fine decision that most managers would have made at that point. You disagree. Fine. But you might notice that neither I nor anyone else is questioning whether or not you’re actually a Cubs fan because you disagree.”

              • Rebuilding

                I just don’t think most “great” managers would have pulled him. Is it everyone else’s opinion here that Sceum is a great manager? I was very supportive of his hire but I think he’s been terrible in-game and frankly his attacks on Castro seem strange to me

                • TWC

                  “But you might notice that neither I nor anyone else is questioning whether or not you’re actually a Cubs fan because you disagree.”

                  • Rebuilding

                    I’m glad you understand the use of the quote button. What’s your point?

                    • MichiganGoat

                      You keep ignoring the original comment and his question to you.

                    • baldtaxguy

                      I enjoyed this.

            • MichiganGoat

              If the moon was made of cheese would you eat it? It’s a simple question.

              • Rebuilding

                Thanks Will Farrell. I wish you were funny

            • Kyle

              Actually, yeah, I agree on all of it.

              I wasn’t thrilled that it was Camp over Marmol or any of the other righties in the pen, but I understood the logic. And pulling Wood then was definitely the right call.

              Wood was definitely losing it at that point. His last nine batters faced had resulted in 8 BIP and one walk. He wasn’t missing bats at all.

              • Rebuilding

                When your other option is Camp you might want to rethink that. Also 5 of those balls in play were pop-ups.. Some we caught, some we didnt

              • MichiganGoat

                Nope we lost therefore Sveum is a horrible manager.

                • Rebuilding

                  Grow up and have an honest discussion. Do you think Sveum has been good this year? Do you think he should be our manager of the future? My opinion – I think tactically he’s been horrible

                  • Kyle

                    I think he’s an excellent manager. I think he’s been better tactically than any Cubs manager I can remember since Riggleman. I love his defensive shifts. He’s done about as good a job as anyone could with the media baiting him during terrible seasons.

                    I can think of a few things he’s done that bugged me, including lobbying the front office for some roster decisions that shouldn’t have happened, but otherwise we cool.

                    • DarthHater

                      You kool-aid swilling sheep!

                    • Rebuilding

                      Wow, Kyle. Usually agree with you. Couldn’t disagree more. I think his bullpen decisions have just been horrible. Not who he picks, but the fact he goes there at all in some situations. I love keeping guys under 115 pitches, but he is quick with the trigger

                    • MichiganGoat

                      No reason to push a young arm much past 100 pitches this early in a season. I’m guess you loved Dusty when he kept Prior out there way too long game after game.

                  • White flag

                    Is there anything your happy with RB? Seems like the sun never shines for you when it comes to the Cubs.

                    • Rebuilding

                      Oh stop. I love the Cubs. I check the Daytona and Kane County websites every night. Just because I don’t agree with Sveum’s decisions or our payroll doesn’t mean I don’t sit and watch every pitch. I love the Cubs and I hope to buy you all a round when we finally win the WS. I was standing on my couch in Santa Barbara in 2003 telling my gf how amazing it was. Just don’t be blind

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Oh now your playing I’m a better fan than you card? I follow the minor leagues, I remember 2003, I remember 84, I have more jerseys- seriously that a horrible justification.

                    • DarthHater

                      Now, that’s not fair, Goat. He was responding to the suggestion that he’s always negative about the Cubs by giving counter-examples. Perfectly reasonable.

                    • Rebuilding

                      I’ve said over and over not to keep anyone on the mound beyond 110 pitches. I think Sveum pulls the trigger too quick – given our bullpen and the bad defensive plays that have proceeded the moves. Sorry for that opinion

        • MichiganGoat

          Yup and you just love to scream and throw fits after anything you mastery of baseball management would do better. If TWood stayed and gave up the lead you’d be on hear screaming for Dale’s head because he didn’t pull him. Easy to complain in hindsight and play revisionist fandom.

          • Rebuilding

            Wrong. I said it it before and during the decision. If Sveum leaves a dominant starter in at 96 pitches I will NEVER criticize him. Especially with our bullpen. Never

            • MichiganGoat

              Sure you would you like to complain – its okay I like beer.

          • Rebuilding

            Yeah, keep telling yourself that you’ve got it. We won 61 games last year. Haha. We shouldn’t ever question the ownership/front office/manager. Do you really think this has all been done right? Chest bump… Ricketts has handled the renovations correctly. Chest bump… Theo/Hoyer have constructed a bullpen and bench correctly. Chest bump… Sveum brings in a 37 year old, washed up reliever in leverage situations. Ok

        • AB

          It’s just a game you frickin’ meathead.

          Quit embarrassing yourself.

          • Rebuilding

            Thanks

      • MichiganGoat

        MOAR we lost ANYONE not waiting to FIRE everybody and throw TANTRUMS are NOT cUbEs FAN. LOUD NOISES smh & facePALM

        • Rebuilding

          Thanks for the contribution

        • beyond enemy lines (south side cubs fan)

          a classic GOAT SMACKDOWN

          chest BUMP

    • DarthHater

      I reviewed the posts under the box score article and, by my count, there were eleven people making negative comments about Sveum and/or his decision-making and five people defending Sveum or at least challenging the logic of the negative comments. That hardly constitutes a groundswell of sheeplike conformity in favor of “everything to do with the Cubs.”

      • MichiganGoat

        BAHHHH

      • Kyle

        That avatar is amazing.

        • DarthHater

          It’s my tribute to my hero. :-D

  • Rebuilding

    Ok, so Dale Sveum is Earl Weaver and Theo is Branch Rickey. Who would ever criticize. Goodness

    • MichiganGoat

      Admit your unhappy with the loss but to try and be all high and mighty about a decision that didn’t work out is just counter productive and quite whinny.

      • DarthHater

        Whinny? Are you a goat, a sheep, or a horse? Dammit, make up your mind!

        • MichiganGoat

          Just want to represent the entire barn.

    • DarthHater

      Yea, if anybody suggests that some of the criticisms of Sveum are based too much on 20-20 hindsight, that’s exactly the same as equating him with Earl Weaver and insisting that he can never be criticized. No exaggeration there at all.

    • Craig

      I agree with you Rebuilding. You make some good points. I also enjoy this sight. I like that people can give different opinions. I don’t like when people gang up on certain people who post like they are doing to you tonight. Everyone has a right to an opinion.

      • MichiganGoat

        It’s not the opinion it’s they calling everyone else out a lesser fan because we don’t agree

      • DarthHater

        Yea, I prefer sites where nobody is offended when you remark on how amazing it is that so many of the people who post there are brainless sheep.

      • mjhurdle

        I have been reading this site and the comments for awhile now. I have never seen anyone “gang up” on someone simply because that person had a different opinion.
        Now, when you start your posting with statements like
        “What the hell is the deal with you guys?”
        continue with posts such as
        “No, you’re a fan of trying to make pithy comments that you only find funny and then patting yourself on the back. Well done”
        then I would say that you are in fact looking for the very type of attention that those type of comments will naturally create.
        There is a big difference between stating
        “hey, I don’t like Sveum. here is points A,B, and C to show what i don’t like about him” and saying “Sveum is the worst ever and anyone that still defends him is some blind Theo/Jed/Rickett lemming!”
        Each statement is designed to command a different, very distinct, response.

        • DarthHater

          Well said. And you did it without the insulting insinuations that I would not have been able to resist throwing in. :-P

        • whiteflag

          Exactly. Not to keep bringing Kyle into these comments, but he often has a very different opinion than everyone else. However, his delivery and reasoning is usually very insightful. Hence, they are generally received much better.

          • DarthHater

            I dunno. Kyle has gotten pretty overbearing since he unveiled his new secret identity as the Crushing Fist of Logic.

            • Kyle

              It’s like sex appeal. I can turn it on and off again like a faucet.

              • Boogens

                That is damn funny!

            • whiteflag

              You have to go back to the original avatar. I keep getting you two confused.

              • DarthHater

                Anything for you, but it will take 15 minutes. ;-)

                • whiteflag

                  Thanks, you are so kind. :)

              • DarthHater

                Sorry, can’t seem to connect to gravatar. The Crushing Fist of Hate will have to remain for a while.

        • MichiganGoat

          Great points – now there is some ribbing that happens out of pure fun that some people view as personal attacks but rolling with it only increases ones “street cred” on here. It’s really about not taking anything personally or making personal attacks to start your discussion.

          • DarthHater

            Douchebag. :-P

          • mjhurdle

            Now that i think about it, i am very tempted to begin every post i make on here with Rebuilding’s “What the hell is the deal with you guys?!” quote. It is really starting to grow on me.

            What the hell is the deal with you guys?!
            its good to see that maybe finalizing the renovation plan won’t be as brutal as i am sure we all are expecting it to be.

            yep, that could work.

  • MichiganGoat

    Ah facts and logic it always creates silence

  • DarthHater

    Is anybody else having trouble connecting to fangraphs.com the last couple days?

  • Rebuilding

    Ok, so everyone thinks that Dale Sveum is great I guess. I’ve been chastised and learned my lesson. So, do you think that Dale Sveum is a better manger than Joe Maddon? Do think he will be manager of the Cubs in 2016? Just throwing those questions out there because his handling of pitching changes is beyond question

    • DarthHater

      And you don’t understand why people think you’re not about rational discussion? smh

      • MichiganGoat

        If the Cubs trade for Stanton, Price, and Headley how many games would they win?

    • MichiganGoat

      When Dale has a team like Maddon has had I’d say yes, but these kind of question are just like trade rumor speculation… It’s why before I made the comment about the moon and cheese.

      • Rcleven

        What kind of cheese?
        Now I am hungry.

        • MichiganGoat

          It’s a simple question, would you eat the moon if it was made out of cheese.

          • DarthHater

            Do goats eat goat cheese?

            • MichiganGoat

              Of course and drink goat milk stout

      • Rebuilding

        You really say the dumbest things on this board. It’s funny – goat – haha I get it. But you really think that’s what I’m talking about? If Sveum can get 77 wins out of this roster that is his job. If Maddon has more talent is really not the point. Hey, make another dumb, not funny statement to that

  • John (the other one)

    RB, here is a helpful link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole.

    As a rhetorical device, it gets really old really fast.

    • MichiganGoat

      It also really difficult to use on an Internet forum

  • willy

    wrigleyville goodbye . hello Rosemont .bring the old scoreboard to the new stadium and lets start a new tradition WINNING!!! The parasites in Wrtiglryville have feasted long enuff. They care not about the cubs;onlytheir own pockct books .the Ricketts have bent over backwards and every other way to please them with nothing but resistance .I love Wrigley but would love a world championship more.

  • Die hard

    Here’s something I am sure Cubs put into agreement 9 yrs ago that its null and void if they move– that is they can’t be enjoined from leaving— and no damages either — otherwise what’s leverage?

  • jt

    Wonder if Wood will be stealing 2nd again before he heads out to the mound for the 8th?
    “A man’s got’ta know his limitations.”
    Perhaps Wood was taken to school for an expensive but needed lesson?

    • mudge

      To not have your defense butcher a pop-up?

      • jt

        Some less than average players were controlling the plate vs Wood in that 8th inning. That was not happening during the first 7.

  • Rebuilding

    Would really love to ask Brett, Hansman, Goat, TWC and all of the other “reflexive” Cubs fans who is at fault? Since you obviously can’t criticize anyone currently in charge for last year or this year. Is it Hendry, Zell, the Tribune Co? Who are we allowed to criticize here after our last place finish this year? Just trying to get the board rules

    • Oswego chris

      1. If the Cubs finish in last this year, I think u can blame Theo and Jed, keeping in mind that they have publicly stated that to them(perhaps not all Cubs fans) there is no difference between winning 75 and 65, and that the higher draft pick supersedes the 5 to 10 extra wins…I certainly understand fans frustration, but they have a plan and they are sticking to it…they spent money on the bullpen…its just he and his translator are on the DL

      2. Zell is primarily to blame for the mess they inherited, with Hendry deserving a bit as well…according to stuff I researched/read, Zell handcuffed Hendry and his staff in the 2010 draft by basically telling them to slash the amount spent on draft…which lead to Hayden Simpson

      3. Why the f#%k am I up?

      Goodnight…

    • Hot Dog

      I tend to agree with you RB — on both allocation of blame/proper way to succeed/perhaps unsavory reasons we’re not taking these approaches, as well as what I see as a somewhat misguided groupthink in the comments section (which groupthink encourages me to keep a low profile lest I bring out the hoards).

      That said, we’re all Cubs fans in it together! We can disagree with civility even in the face of implied (and I think rather accidental) ostracization. Bummer we lost tonight but soon enough the W flag will fly again!

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      You’re allowed to criticize anyone you want. No one has said otherwise. You can criticize, and others can disagree with you.

      • MichiganGoat

        Yes disagreement is great but stomping your feet and name calling is the exact opposite of intelligent discourse. Oh and people can disagree with you if your opinions do not match theirs? uh I never made the connection.

    • Cubbie Blues

      I must be doing something wrong since I was left out of this list.

      By the way Rebuilding, if you would have started off with an intelligent comment\criticism this thread would have turned out completely different. But, when you start out by calling others that disagree with you sheep, yeah, it’s going to get ugly.

      • MichiganGoat

        Haha Mr. Blue you aren’t on the VIP list

  • Rebuilding

    You do realize we are the vastly superior market in this division right? I got shouted down for months by the same people who try to shout me down now that no way the Cubs were reducing payroll to pay debt. They were just “waiting” to be competitive. So now everyone is right that Sveum is Svengali and makes no bullpen mistakes. Ok.

    • MichiganGoat

      Sigh, you just don’t listen do you? There is a difference between fact and opinion. You think Sveum is a horrible manager many of us think he’s doing the right things it’s just that the players (specifically the bullpen) keep crapping their pants. This is what a manager is suppose to do- play the person who matches up best based on advanced scouting and stats, but again not everyone agreed on what the best option might be. Last year Camp was one of our best relievers and I’m sure the matchups favored him and I agree it was the wrong decision in hindsight but if we won then its not a bad decision. You keep proving my points 1-you are a revisionist fan- WE LOST BLAME SVEUM. What you don’t understand is how to have successful and productive discourse, you seem to think that The Bayless Model of “Debate” is a sound and productive model. But the most frustrating part of this discussion is how you can’t handle people who don’t praise, agree, and pat your back. Get over it learn how to discuss without calling people sheep or dumb- that’s trollish or middle school behavior. Just grow up buddy. You might feel more comfortable over at Cubs.com where you’d fit right in.

  • http://www.viewfromthebleachers.com Norm

    Camp was just fine last year…seems like a lot of people calling for him to be replaced already. It’s been 11 innings.

Bleacher Nation Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. Bleacher Nation is a private media site, and it is not affiliated in any way with Major League Baseball or the Chicago Cubs. Neither MLB nor the Chicago Cubs have endorsed, supported, directed, or participated in the creation of the content at this site, or in the creation of the site itself. It's just a media site that happens to cover the Chicago Cubs.

Bleacher Nation is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

Google+