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Edwin Jackson didn’t get a lot of help today. He didn’t get help from the defense behind him, which kicked around a ball or two. He didn’t get help from his catcher, who couldn’t seem to stop any of his pitches down in the dirt. He didn’t get help from a relatively tight zone. And he didn’t get help from his manager, who arguably left him in too long in the decisive sixth inning.

But, the thing is, at some point, Jackson’s got to help himself. The underlying metrics continue to support Jackson’s performance this year as better than we might think, but he did give up 12(!) hits today, together with three walks. At some point, the headline numbers start to matter as much as the underlying ones. But Jackson is here to stay, so we’ll keep pulling for him to put together one of those “good” starts at some point.

At least Scott Hairston homered again. He seems to be doing that a fair bit lately. The Cubs also did more damage against Patrick Corbin than pretty much any team before them has.

june 2 box

Full box.

  • Kyle

    Those last two games were a lot less fun. I’d like another 5-game win streak, please.

    • EvenBetterNewsV2.0

      Agreed.

    • Matty Ice

      Well as long as the Cubs play shitty teams they have a shot. 10-22 against teams with a wining record.

      • Kyle

        That’s normal.

        • Matty Ice

          For shitty teams, yes

          • Kyle

            Without looking it up, what do you think the league average win percentage against better than .500 teams is?

            • jt

              If the winning teams all have played the same number of games
              (1 – (the avg winning % of the winning teams)/100) * 100
              *
              As of today The Cards are 13W 8L against winning teams
              The Nats are 13W and 18L against winning teams (with today’s loss vs. a winning team they are a game under 0.500)
              Matty posts The Cubs are 10W 22L
              *
              So, the real good team has beaten good teams
              The middle of the road team wins more from bad team but does OK vs winning teams
              The bad team sucks against good teams.

            • DocPeterWimsey

              heh, that is a good example of a true riddle! (I.e., the answer is in the question.)

              • Bric

                Hey Doc (and anybody else), here’s another one for you.
                A man owns a paper shredding company. He uses a shredder that can shred one truckload of paper in 4 hours.

                Recently he bought a 2nd shredder that can shred a truckload in 2 hours.

                If he uses both shredders at the same time, how long will it take him to shred the one truckload of paper?

                (This is not a trick question and is an example of the new 7th grade common core curriculum standards).

                • Nick

                  3 hours?

                  • Nick

                    I lied but my guess is 90 minutes

                • Coach K

                  80 minutes?

                  • Bric

                    Well done.

                • DocPeterWimsey

                  Does that qualify as a riddle? It seems like elementary algebra to me: assuming that Ollie can use both at once to maximum capacity, then the rate is just 0.75 truckloads per hour (0.5 from the 2-hour shredder, 0.25 from the 4-hour one). So, 1.0 truckload /0.75 truckloads per hour = 4/3 hours = 80 minutes.

                  If the question is phrased so that he’s using only one shredder (or that you cannot disperse truckloads into fractional amounts), then the answer is 2 hours, of course.

                  Do kids start algebra in 7th grade these days? I no longer remember when I started: we still used ochre and limestone back then, I think……

                  • Bric

                    It’s not really a riddle but it was one of the more interesting examples from a seminar I went to recently. In the new common core kids should be introduced to fractions experimentally in K, empirically at 3rd grade, and algebra at around late 4 early 5th.

                • cubchymyst

                  75 minutes

                  • cubchymyst

                    screwed up my math, had 1.33 hours and converted it wrong in my head.

                    • Bric

                      There are a number of different ways to solve it but if you use decimals you have to remember that decimals are based 100 and convert to time, which is based on 60. It’s much cleaner to solve using fractions.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      I could go on for hours about how the Common Core will destroy education by punishing at risk schools and keeping good teachers away from the schools that need us most. But this is a Cubs blog.

                • MichiganGoat

                  Michigan just voted to refuse the common core

                  • Bric

                    That’s cool, hope everything works out for your state. Now back to Cubs talk!

  • Canadian Cubs Fan

    Underlying metrics are bullshit. He is as bad as we my think. Every time the Cubs tried to claw their way back, and even tied it up against a really good pitcher, Jackson would give it back.

    Shame on Dale for leavin him in after that 5th run scored. Bad managing. Again.

    • Dynastyin2017

      But….how are the Cubs doing in the underlying metrics standings?

    • MichiganGoat

      Yup lets just stick to the back of baseball cards – SABERMETRICS ARE FOR CHUMPS

      • Dynastyin2017

        Name of the game is to win games. When Jackson pitches, Cubs don’t win games. What stat does sabermetrics have for that?

        • MichiganGoat

          That you can’t build a team based on a pitchers win/losses that you have to look beyond grandpa’s stat sheet. Yes EJax has been bad but there are metrics beyond the W/L record that shows he not as bad as his record shows. That’s all we are saying we’re not saying he’s pitching to his contract but it’s not as bad as it looks. This is what a FO looks at and it’s what the educated fan should also consider before going all WORST PITCHER EVER on EJax. Just look beyond the box score and you can see so much more.

          • Dynastyin2017

            Thank You. I appreciate being called uneducated. Oh, BTW, being a grandpa has been one of the biggest pleasures of my life.

          • jt

            velocity/movement/command
            If a guy has velocity and movement then some good things are going to happen.
            But even if he has the velocity and movement then some bad things are also going to happen if he lacks command.
            If the catcher is reaching or block pitches he doesn’t call to be in the dirt…. perhaps the guy is lacking command. And if a lot of the results are not as good as hoped for…. well….

        • MichiganGoat

          I guess this just falls in TWTW – EJax has none just TWTL obviously

        • Kyle

          The stat is HMCEC. The value is zero.

    • Jay

      Is it just me or does it seem like Jackson pitches like a guy who’s mind wanders alot? I mean, with the stuff he has he shouldn’t get lit up in critical times like he always manages to do.

      • Hansman1982

        12 hits but only 1 XBH…clearly the Diamondbacks weren’t hitting the ball very hard today.

        3 walks is very disturbing but damn, it’s hard to give up 11 singles in 6 innings of work.

        • Jay

          Plus all the wild pitches. Not all of them were Castillo’s fault.

          • mudge

            Castillo wasn’t catching.

            • Jay

              You are correct. Brain cramp.

              • Jay

                Too bad he wasn’t. Would have helped.

      • Bruce Boryla

        He looks like a guy sweating the last pitch instead of concentrating on the next one.

  • Patrick G

    Svuem needs to light a fire under Rizzo and Castro again. They are drawing some walks, which is obviously good, but what happened to the Castro that hit .300? Surprising they are scoring the amount of runs without them doing anything

    • Dynastyin2017

      The Castro that hit .300. You mean the Castro that was .300/.330 before Theo/Jed/Dale arrived? That Castro?

      • Jay

        A point I’ve been making for a while. All this blah blah blah about seeing X number of pitches in an at bat has neutered Castro’s natural aggressiveness and ability to put the bat on the ball.

        • Jay

          And nobody needs to light a fire under Rizzo’s ass. That guy’s the only one I have any confidence in. He’s a power hitter—they’re streaky.

          • Patrick G

            What happened last time Svuem did? He had like 3 straight 3 hit games and raised his average to the .290s. Rizzo has shown more than being a power hitter and wouldn’t categorize him as that

            • Jay

              I think the world of Rizzo. I didn’t mean to characterize him as nothing but a home run hitter. But, you’re telling me that all that motivates him is Dale making stupid comments in the press about sending guys down to the minors if the don’t perform? I doubt one had anything to do with the other. Whatever’s ailing the Cubs (and the list is long) Rizzo ain’t it. The season is long. I look forward to his final numbers at the end of his FIRST FULL YEAR in the big leagues.

              • Patrick G

                Never said he needs to threaten them again, just saying it worked last time, don’t see anything wrong with trying to motivate him again

                • Jay

                  I’m sure he’s plenty motivated without Dale’s help. What are you seeing that you don’t like? He’s not going to go 3-for-4 every game?

                  • Patrick G

                    Just speaking of box scores and a .250 average. I don’t get Cubs games so don’t get to personally see his at bats

        • Dynastyin2017

          Yep. Plus this regime’s hitting coaches leave something to be desired. Can’t they see Castro’s open stance is slowing down his bat speed? He wasn’t doing that 2 years ago.

          But that’s Theo and ‘The Cubs Way’ It must start out “And then Theo made all in his image”.

          • Jay

            He’s always had an open stance. Doubt that’s the problem.

  • Rcleven

    In post game interview Sveum blames the loss on Borbon.
    Come on Dale there were so many things wrong today.
    Take a look in the mirror.

    • gocatsgo2003

      I have a hard time believing that Dale actually said “that loss is Borbon’s fault.”

      • Bric

        Maybe he meant “bourbon”.

    • Dynastyin2017

      Dale needs to stop using the media to send messages to his players. He needs to stop it NOW. Shows how weak Dale is.

  • mudge

    Sveum first comment on post-game show blames loss on Borbon’s dropped fly ball. Nothing to say about leaving a tiring starter in to face Paul Goldschmidt.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      I missed it, but I look forward to seeing the context on that.

      • Rcleven

        It was more in reference to protect Jackson. Still left Borbon hung out to dry.

        • willis

          The guy is a prick. And should never leave any of his guys hung out like that. Regardless of what happens. You never hang players out like that.

      • Rcleven

        “There were circumstances involved in today’s outing. I think dropping routine fly ball got things set in the wrong direction.”
        “He ended up an out away from having a pretty nice ballgame.”

        • Bric

          Obviously Borbon and Jackson share some of the blame for this one getting away but the life sucker of this team has got to Marmol. Last night, today, the Braves series, nothing sucks the life out of the Cubs hopes in the late innings faster than seeing him out there.

          He has zero trade value and will probably be released after this year. I don’t know why they don’t just DL him until the All Star break. The guy’s clearly useless in any type of meaningful situation and he’s sucking the life out of his team and the fans.

  • mudge

    He stung Borbon twice.

  • willis

    Sveum is way over his head, and basically a jerk off. If any of you didn’t know that by now…jesus I don’t know how you can argue it. Was at the game, Jackson had nothing left. The manager is supposed to make decisions that help his team win. But, this ass hat never does. He’s a nothing piece of crap that couldn’t manage a softball team let alone a major league team.

    One bad decision after another. And unfortunately I’m afraid we are all stuck with him for a long time.

    • Tobias

      Sounds like someone needs a nap.

      • willis

        Yep, that’s right. I need a nap. That has everything to do with the fact that he can’t manage. Good comment.

        • http://Isa Voice of reason

          Sveum has this team overachieving.

  • http://Yes Dude

    No way Cubs take Apple over Gray. They passed on him last year

    • David

      You obviously don’t know much about the new draft rules. They didn’t pick him because they couldn’t afford him with the money they had to spend, just like the Pirates. They have a bigger pool now that they have the number two pick.

      • Bric

        Also, they didn’t want to take the chance that he’d return to school, which he invariably did. No chance of that now but the money/ signability issue still remains but doesn’t look like it will be a stumbling block.

  • SirCub

    Sitting right behind a couple of scouts at the UNC game. Can’t help but wonder if any are from the Astros, scouting Moran…

  • Tyron

    Brett it’s time to let dale go an all these hitting
    Coches go , start fresh after the trade deadline

  • Hansman1982

    Holy shit, the Diamondbacks were 5-21 RISP. Clearly their manager blows.

    • Jay

      I guess good things happen when you clog the bases with all those runners….

    • Dynastyin2017

      Hansmen. What has Dale done right?

      • Kyle

        He’s had a significant hand in the Cubs making fantastic defense strides in his two years here.

        • Blublud

          Aren’t we one of the worse defenses in the league?

          • Kyle

            No, we are one of the best. The Cubs have converted 72.7% of balls in play into outs, No. 2 in MLB.

            • Ron

              Think how much better this would be without the errors! I really like Sveum, my brother is a huge Brewers fan and he is pissed the brewers let him go.

            • http://Isa Voice of reason

              That certainly doesn’t automatically make the cubs a good defensive team.

              • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

                Converting balls in play into outs is kinda the definition of defense in baseball. If the Cubs are the second best in the league at doing so, how are they not a good defensive team?

                • jt

                  not telling you anything you do not already know but..
                  outs on balls in play has a primary function list of
                  a) defensive alignment
                  b) skill
                  c) quality and type of contact batter makes with the ball.
                  There are also other influences such as weather.
                  skill could be of poor quality and the job could still get done if aspects a) and b) are of exceptional quality.
                  In the hot, wind blow out summer more batted balls could find the gaps.
                  Does management have to consider better pitching, better gloves or better weather? Perhaps some combo of the 3?
                  *
                  But measuring outs on batted balls works for me

            • Dustin S

              Cubs are also tied for 2nd most in MLB in errors with 40. Have to be careful to avoid selective stat picking to support a flawed argument. Seems to be happening a lot on here lately.

              • Kyle

                Sveum is well-known for the work he puts into his advanced defensive shifts.

                Since he took over, the Cubs have gone from one of the worst at converting balls in play into outs into one of the best.

                If you want to rip him, focus on his management of the pitching staff. I’ll be right with you there.

                • jt

                  April of 2012 many were saying Shark, Dempster and Wood sucked. Many could not understand why they even signed Maholm.
                  At present, Feldman and Gregg can be added to that list.
                  *
                  I don’t know who but somebody should be getting some credit for something.

                  • Kyle

                    Huuuuge credit to Bosio. And if Sveum is helping working with them, that’s fine.

                    I’m talking about usage, especially wrt when to pull starters and how to use the pen.

                    • Jp3

                      +1 on bullpen usage… Some of it is a bit out of his hands with only 3 reliable arms out there but for gods sake stop running Marmol out in high pressure situations. That guy is an absolute horror show.

              • Kyle

                We absolutely shouldn’t be selective which stats we use.

                But we should use good stats. Defensive efficiency (percentage of balls in play turned into outs) has always been one of the best measures of team defense. It’s far better than errors, which are a very bad statistic in general and tell you very little.

        • Dynastyin2017

          Yep….
          2011: 978 FPCT
          2012: .982
          2013: .980
          HUGE improvement.

          • Kyle

            OK. Now you a stat that means anything.

            • Dynastyin2017

              So you give Dale credit for defensive alignment?
              Or is that just BABIP luck on the Cubs side?

            • Dynastyin2017

              Oh Kyle. I forgot. I’m an uneducated grandpa that doesn’t have the right to question you. I’m sooooo sorry.

              • MichiganGoat

                Wow a defensive grandpa at that I’ll be sure to take my family off your lawn with all these magical numbers. We’re not against you, some of us are merely looking at the types of stats all FO look at (and I’m sure we’ve only brushed the surface) these stats everyone lived by 20-30 years ago are flawed and incomplete- there are better ones than the 8-track stats you still use.

                • Die hard

                  Stats schmats — show me Bellyfire and I will see a winner – Castro does not have it yet and may never– he’s gliding thru the game in a trance — Quade tried to wake him up but was fired over it

                  • Bric

                    Agree somewhat on the Castro assertion but that’s not why Q was fired.

                • Dynastyin2017

                  ” these stats everyone lived by 20-30 years ago are flawed and incomplete- ”
                  As opposed to the stats that are manipulated to fit a narrative?

                  And, assuming you are a family of goats, I would appreciate it if you stayed off my lawn.

                  • DocPeterWimsey

                    Which stats are manipulated to fit a narrative? After all, “stats” are just summaries of data and how different types of outcomes are related to each other. The things that correlate with winning now correlated with winning 25 years ago and 50 years ago: the difference is that people now accurately report what correlates with winning rather than attributing to sports equivalents of phlogiston, fairies and divine spark.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      But these stats don’t come with cardboard gum – SABERMETRICS GOT NO GUM ;)

                  • MichiganGoat

                    You mean stats that more accurately predict and describe what the player is actually in control over? Yeah nothing changes a narrative like facts, science, and truth.

  • Blublud

    Sveum is starting to prove himself as one of the worse managers in baseball. This season will/should be his last. Jackson should have been out of the game after the 5th. Between him and our 3rd base coach, our players are at a disadvantage before the game even start. Hell, fire him and promote Bosio. He seem to be the only coach having any kind of success this year.

    • Jay

      The problem is he’s getting basically a free pass because he doesn’t have the horses, and he’ll have even less of them by the end of July. I gave him a pass last year, but this year he’s proving to be overmatched at most aspects of the game, from the motivational to the tactical. I try not to give the manager too much credit/blame for what the players do, but watching him handle a pitching staff makes my head hurt.

    • Kyle

      He’s got this weird flaw where he has *way* too much loyalty to awful veteran relievers.

      He does everything else pretty well. If he can fix the flaw, he’s a good manager. If not, then he deserves to be gone.

      • DocPeterWimsey

        Loyalty to veterans is one of the #1 flaws of managers in general, even some that have had a lot of success. Sparky Anderson, Dick Williams, Don Zimmer and Dusty Baker all are guys who were/are well-known for preferring veterans. Too many of them believe that veterans are somehow more “consistent” and more “proven” than are young players. I suspect that it simply stems from the fact that most managers are ex-players: and there exists among athletes in general (and baseball players in particular) a sort of social gerontocracy.

  • RoughRiider

    It’s hard to believe that the FO & Sveum care about winning when they keep sending Jackson out there to pitch. I know, the Cubs spent a lot of money on him on a long term contract, but he’s been pretty much a disaster waiting to happen every time he starts. He needs to go to the pen for awhile.

    • Rcleven

      This is the pitcher Jackson is. He has been a little unlucky. He kept the Cubs in the game for five plus innings. He should have been pulled in the sixth when they came out to talk to him.
      Blame the management of pitchers not Jackson.

      • http://Isa Voice of reason

        Jackson is a little bit unlucky?

        Blame the management of pitchers and not Jackson?

        Jackson has been terrible this year. He shouldn’t even be in the rotation, but it’s not about wins and losses this year. It has nothing to do with luck or mismanagement. Jackson has been god awful all year.

        Put down the cub Kool aid

        • Rcleven

          This has nothing to do with kool aid.
          Jackson struggled. He should have been pulled when Sveum came to the mound in the sixth. When a pitcher struggles then gets in more trouble do you leave him in? No. You bring in a reliever.
          With Shark I supported bringing him out for the seventh because he was pitching well. The pen just blew it.
          Sveum needs to learn how to manage his starters (stays too long when starters struggle, Left handed right handed match ups, who his pitcher will be in certain situations). Even the use of ineffective pitchers.
          Sveum does a lot of things well but management of the pitching staff is not one of them.

  • Jay

    They don’t care about winning this year—an argument I keep having on this board. Sending him to the pen isn’t going to help get him straightened out unfortunately. He needs to pitch his way out of this. The only good news is it really doesn’t matter in the long run if he takes the rest of the year to do it.

  • Kyle

    Starlin Castro is down to a .650 OPS with an updated ZIPS projection of 1.8 fWAR. So much puke.

    • Die hard

      And why? Cause as I have been saying he’s a head case who hits 1st

  • Die hard

    Where’s all the irrational exuberation now? MrJackson meet Mr Stewart

  • True(ly) Blue

    I thought that the signing of Jackson was a good signing at a good price but now I’m beginning to realize that I was wrong. He seems to have good stuff (though I wish his fastball had a little more movement). What I see as his big problem is that when he gets into trouble he overthrows and spikes the ball about 5 feet in front of the plate or pulls it about a foot left of the plate. He has no “out” pitch that he can rely on in times of trouble.
    Also Sveum would be a better Mgr if he would either shave or grow a beard. He looks disreputable all the time. Who can look at him w/o laughing?

  • Die hard

    Memo to Theo: put Castro and Jackson on 15 DL and then 15 day rehab in minors so can find their game– Castro has sprained wrist and Jackson tendinitis

  • caryatid62

    I don’t think there’s anything less interesting than a discussion about whether or not a manager should be fired.

    95 percent of the time, the answer is no.

    • MichiganGoat

      It’s becoming this years Campana

      • DocPeterWimsey

        What is going to be 2013′s “Let’s/Don’t let’s see what LaHair can do against lefties” argument?

        • MichiganGoat

          I’m hoping the Sveum rage blame covers them all.

        • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

          I think that one’s still around.

          It’s just evolved to an unintelligible attack on platoons in general.

          • hansman1982

            Ehh, I think it’s the “SVEUM SUX, FIRE DAT BUM!!!!” chant…

    • mudge

      Welcome to the discussion.

  • CrazyHorse

    “””””But, the thing is, at some point, Jackson’s got to help himself.””” ….. That says it all.

    Hats off

  • curt

    Jackson has been awful and I do hope he turns it around soon, I think he’s gotten a pass so far , unlike soriano who was vilified because of that contract hendry gave him, so I’m hoping Jackson does a miraculous turn around and starts to justify his contract.

  • Willie Smith

    Dice-K
    Julio Lugo
    Lackey
    Crawford
    Beckett

    and now EJax……….the hits just keep on coming from Theo/Jed!

    • EvenBetterNewsV2.0

      Funny thing is 2 of those players were key components on a world title team of his. I would take that in a heartbeat. I am not paying them.

  • RY34

    Another great performance by Marmol, how much longer with this joke? I wish i could suck at my job this much and still be asked to come back. Also, maybe it is time to give Castro the week off.

    • EvenBetterNewsV2.0

      Yep. That “Knee Sprain” is giving him trouble.

  • @cubsfantroy

    I see MarmLOL had another great game.

    • Jp3

      Yeah, I think sveum should keep running Marmol out in close games, If he would do this for a month Jed would have no choice but to DL him or release him.

  • baseballet

    EJax’s WHIP is 1.67 and I’m starting to worry. Not as much as I worry about Castro, but I’m worried.

  • Cheryl

    So if we fire Sveum who wants to take over this mess? I agree with some of you that he’s in over his head. In a way he’s like Quade, he sticks with the veterans too long. And, I don’t like it when any manager uses the media in the manner mentioned. Does he get after Castro or Rizzo in the media? No. Talk to them on the quiet, not in the press. This whole thing with the cubs makes me wonder how much freedom Sveum has in making decisions. And, yes an argument could be made that he doesn’t have the horses but a manager, a good manager, gets the best out of what he has.

    • Timmy

      Always go with veterans because they know protocols, how to capitalize on their strengths, and usually have the respect of the opposing team.

      It’s just plain a bad team, deliberately built badly, on a shoe-string budget and at the last second. Theo doesn’t have permission to sign free agents, Hoyer is a yes man, and the Ricketts see $$$ not sportsmanship.

      So blaming Sveum is at best inappropriate at this point. Give the guy 3 years and some players and see what he can do!

  • Die hard

    For next 30 games try Barney at SS and call up Watkins and Castro replace Watkins on rehab after 15 day DL … What’s to lose?

    • Cheryl

      A good idea but can it be done?

      • Die hard

        Anything they want can be done- 15 days on DL followed by 15 AAA games will be just what Dr ordered

  • CJMayne

    Random thought: Garza and Soriano to O’s for Gausman, etc. I donna know.

    • nkniacc13

      O’s aren’t trading Gausman

    • @cubsfantroy

      Yes a soon to be free agent and a 38 year old left fielder who has maybe, just maybe one more year left for a 22 year old stud pitcher. Seems legit.

  • Patrick G

    Atleast Baez had a another good day, 2-4 RBI and no errors!

  • Die hard

    Castro needs this type of tough love now so can mature into best he can be–if Theo can’t see this then Cubs have more issues than Castro

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