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ryan braun whoaAccording to Outside the Lines, the ESPN entity that originally reported that MLB planned to suspend players connected with the Miami Biogenesis clinic that had previously distributed performance enhancing drugs, now reports that those suspensions are coming next week after the All-Star break.

After bringing in the man who ran the clinic – Tony Bosch – to provide evidence against his former customers, and after obtaining further documentation about the PED links, MLB apparently believes it has sufficient evidence to suspend the at-issue players. The list of previously-implicated players includes Ryan Braun, Alex Rodriguez, Nelson Cruz, Melky Cabrera, Bartolo Colon and as many as 15 others (some of whom have not yet been identified).

According to OTL, MLB has been meeting with the players, and Ryan Braun – at least – refused to cooperate. He, along with Rodriguez, may be suspended for 100 games as “repeat offenders,” even though they haven’t been suspended before. Other players could be suspended for 100 games because MLB views the drug offense and then lying about it to be two distinct offenses, meriting double punishment. If that sounds odd, it isn’t just you. I imagine MLB has a more detailed and deeper theory, but we just haven’t heard it yet.

The implications of this story are far-reaching, especially as we approach the Trade Deadline … and await the identification of any yet unnamed players. Hopefully the Cubs avoid any entanglement in the story, and we can merely observe as fascinated outsiders. Getting this right is pretty damn important for Major League Baseball, and they will face a big fight after they announce these suspensions, which are not based on positive tests. If they do go this route, hopefully their documentation is extensive. Otherwise, they could be looking at another FedEx-sized embarrassment.

  • Jimmy james

    Good news….

  • jayrig5

    Regardless of guilt, I hate that MLB is circumventing their own collectively bargained due process. Can’t end well for anyone.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      I doubt they would do that. Remember: even the MLBPA has an interest in seeing cheaters rooted out.

      • Cedlandrum

        Now, after the league and the MLBPA got fat on the steroid users backs.

  • Serious Cubs Fan

    I hope they drag Braun name through the mud, because Braun and his people really ruined the guys life who was shipping Braun’s positive PED test. Braun tested positive and only got off on a technicality. By framing Braun and finally proving he Tested positive and is a cheater, I think would do that guy justice.

    • Waxpaperbeercup

      Agreed

    • King Jeff

      Brewers fans are even speculating that Braun is refusing to answer questions so he can’t be accused of lying and won’t face the double suspension that others are facing.

      • Jp3

        He’ll probably go back to the Herp Med defense😝

    • Timmy

      This is exactly right. Unless Kemp was also juicing, which to my knowledge at least he wasn’t, he was majorly screwed by Braun’s cheating. I hate seeing undeserved players rewarded, and I know I’m not alone with other baseball fans. These comments are all contingent on if he is indeed using a banned substance, of course.

  • Ben (BG2383)

    I would think this could potentially make the trade market explode. (depending on how many names are exposed)
    It will be fascinating to the see MLBPA’s response

    • Dumpgobbler

      Sure could. Garza and Soriano to the Rangers makes more sense then ever.

  • ramin

    Nelson Cruz if suspended, could force the Ranger to deal for Soriano/Garza.
    Bortolo Colon could force A’S trade for Garza. They are in 1st place and could replace their ace with another ace.
    If Gio Gonzalez get suspended, they could turn to Garza to replace their ace.
    All in all, these suspensions could be huge implications for the Cubs at the trade deadline.

    • @cubsfantroy

      Gio won’t get suspended, he got legal substances from there and has been honest about it all, from what I’ve read.

      • ramin

        thats all we know so far. They have investigated plenty more since those reports, so you never know what is going to happen.

    • cubbie blue thru n thru

      More than likely Colon won’t get suspended either already was suspended last year for illegal substances and that suspension more than likely came from the drugs acquired from biogenesis

  • waittilthisyear

    love to see Braun get his, provided he is guilty.

  • Caryatid62

    This isn’t about getting anything right. This is an idiotic witchhunt on behalf of major-league baseball, using shady witnesses whose testimonies have been extorted and scraps of paper that wouldn’t hold up in any court in the country.

    Btw-This isn’t a defense of the players and what they may or may not have done, but a critique of what baseball is going by circumventing the law and trying to destroy its own players.

    • Caryatid62

      By the way, nobody is going to serve any suspensions. Especially not this season.

      • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

        I suspect MLB is going to want a speedy appellate process, and I’m not sure the MLBPA is going to have a problem with that.

        • Caryatid62

          I doubt the players association is very happy about the way this entire investigation has been handled. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them fight tooth and nail against this type of investigation.

      • Werner

        Yeah, isn’t it assumed that the players will automatically appeal and it will drag to well past the World Series.

      • Internet Random

        “Especially not this season.”

        So much the better. Might as well kill the Brewers’ 2014 season from the outset.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      I think you could be right about the witch hunt and the lack of solid evidence.

      But, since neither you nor I have actually reviewed the evidence, I think you could be wrong, as well. We simply don’t know. Yet.

    • wvcubsfan

      “This isn’t about getting anything right. This is an idiotic witchhunt on behalf of major-league baseball, using shady witnesses whose testimonies have been extorted and scraps of paper that wouldn’t hold up in any court in the country.”

      Disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I do watch a whole bunch of cop dramas so that must make me an expert.

      I would venture a guess that any person that was testifying before a court after reaching a plea bargain could also be described as an extorted testimony. If I’m not mistaken those happen quite often and are very much admissible. As far as the “scraps of paper” go; I’m pretty sure MLB would have to have much more than was referenced in the original report if they were going to go out on a limb and suspend players.

      I don’t consider this a witch hunt, but I do think they might have been a little over zealous in wanting to try to get to the truth in this matter. If they truly want a “clean” game then this will more than likely happen many more times in the near future.

      • Caryatid62

        The big difference here is that major league baseball is not the federal government and shouldn’t be allowed, just by their financial means, to extort favorable “evidence”. I’m talking about the fact that they frivolously sued this guy simply to get him to talk. They used the civil courts, knowing he couldn’t afford to defend himself, to get him to help them with the investigation, which is an embarrassing misuse of our legal system.

        Using steroids is wrong. What baseball is doing is disgusting.

        • wvcubsfan

          Oh so you don’t like the big guy getting over on the little guy just because they have more money. To be honest I don’t either, but unfortunately that has been business as usual for our country for way too long.

          • Caryatid62

            And it’s why what baseball’s doing right now is much, much worse than what any steroid user has ever done.

    • King Jeff

      I think there is a lot more to it than shady witnesses and scraps of paper. MLB has been working this for months, some reports are saying that there are at least phone records and text messages, and could possibly be financial transactions records. I know we all believe that these guys are smart enough to not by illegal drugs with credit cards or checks, but it has happened in the past. MLB is doing this in a messed up manner, but I’m not convinced that they are jumping into something this big an all-encompassing without having a very good reason to do so.

      • Caryatid62

        Then I don’t think you know just how incompetent MLB ( and especially Selig) is.

    • ScottK

      As Brett said, we can’t really speak well or ill of what MLB is doing because we just don’t know what evidence they have.

      WVCubsfan’s is right: that’s how you get less important people to testify against more important people. Plea bargains are and always have been essentially legal extortion – you use impending charges/investigations/penalties to force a person into throwing a bigger fish under the bus. What MLB did is what any decent legal team would do in order to get important testimony from someone that doesn’t want to testify.

      Anyways, if you think that MLB is “trying to destroy its own players” then I don’t see how anyone can discuss this with you. That’s such an irrational sentiment that it may well disqualify you from any serious debate.

      • caryatid62

        The “plea bargain” analogy is apples to oranges.

        In order to get a plea bargain, a person has to be found guilty of a crime (or likelihood that he committed a crime) and the government uses the legal ramifications of that person’s transgressions as leverage to get favorable testimony. The first party had to committ (and be found guilty or likely guilty) a crime of his own volition. This isn’t anything like that. This is a private company suing a private citizen (based upon no real legal standing) in order to create financial leverage that has nothing to do with his innocence or guilt in the action. The leverage they’ve created has no basis in the actions of the Biogenesis part–they could create the same leverage against you or me to get anything they wanted. And that’s disgusting.

        If you think any legal team would actually sue someone, essentially threatening them with bankruptcy, to coerce evidence or testimony against the employees of their client’s company, then I don’t know what to say. That’s just wrong.

        • DocShock

          “In order to get a plea bargain, a person has to be found guilty of a crime (or likelihood that he committed a crime) and the government uses the legal ramifications of that person’s transgressions as leverage to get favorable testimony. The first party had to committ (and be found guilty or likely guilty) a crime of his own volition”

          That is not true. Plea bargains typically occur well before a trial occurs so how can a person be found guilty of a crime? Usually plea bargains happen because it is a lesser crime, or bottom rung guy, and they want to go after the bigger crime/fish, if they are using the person to testify as a part of the plea bargains. Outside of that plea bargains tend to happen because the prosecution either does not believe the evidence is strong enough to win a trial or they don’t want to expend time and resources prosecuting the crime. By accepting a plea bargain you are essentially pleading guilty, but to say that you have been found guilty to get a plea bargain is false.

          • caryatid62

            “Plea bargain” is probably the incorrect phrase. This is more like turning state’s evidence. And for someone to turn state’s evidence, they have to feel like it’s likely that they will be punished for their own misdeeds.

            Aside from that, I am really uncomfortable with assuming that it’s a fair comparison between a government exercising legal powers and a private entity exercising legal powers. Why does having a lot of money and the ability to sue give MLB the same rights as our government? And why is that okay?

        • ScottK

          caryatid62 – your argument has caused me to read deeper into the case. I see where you’re coming from. As a younger man I would have just pounded at my keyboard in opposition, but I want to learn more about this. Let me see if I have it:
          MLB has a questionable lawsuit (i.e. many legal experts don’t believe they could win it) against Biogenesis. Biogenesis knows that they can probably win the lawsuit, but it would be very costly to do so. MLB dangled dropping the lawsuit in exchange for testimony and information to help it identify and punish players who used PEDs.

          My argument was based on my belief that the MLB case against Biogenesis was legit (which is questionable). Do you, or anyone else for that matter, know details of what the MLB v Biogenesis case is about?

      • caryatid62

        …furthermore, what’s happened to Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, Rodriguez, and Braun is essentially character destruction. Whether it’s deserved or not is debatable, but it’s hard to argue that they haven’t taken massive PR and financial hits due to the investigations. Maybe they deserve it, maybe not.

        But what baseball has done that’s even worse is that, because it is conducting this silly and stupid witch hunt, it just keeps the “OMG STEROIDZ” narrative going. Now, basically any player who suddenly does well (Raul Ibanez, Chris Davis) is immediately assumed by large portions of the country to be on steroids. Baseball is doing everything it can to destroy the credibility of it’s own game. Meanwhile, the 350 lb lineman are running 4.7 40s and bench pressing a half ton in the NFL, and we don’t see weekly “STEROIDZ IS RUINING THE NFL” stories. The NBA had a ref literally betting on the game, and that story is almost totally forgotten two years later. These leagues actually know how to shape the image of their product. They don’t make shady legal moves, which only emphasize a past problem (which is likely relatively minor now) and hurt the image of the league.

        • Rebuilding

          Controversial take. I definitely agree that baseball really has a penchant to make its own game look bad, but the NBA and NFL just sweep their problems under the rug. I agree that the zealousness with which they are going after this is disturbing – I think it’s all about Selig’s legacy. But as far as Sosa, Bonds and Clemens – I think they performed their own character assassination

  • Spencer

    Their basis for the double punishment is just so weird to me. 50 games for being circumstantially implicated, and then another 50 for lying about it. Doesn’t seem right.

  • Eric

    “He, along with Rodriguez, may be suspended for 100 games as repeat offenders, even though they haven’t been suspended before.”

    [img]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m66/brooknamsfinest/9ve1s7.gif[/img]

  • ramin

    heres hoping no cubs’ name is going to get mentioned. As we all know, there are plenty of names that haven’t been revealed.

    • Coach K

      All Cub players pass the eye test. That is to say, none of them are performing like steroid users. If they are using, I’d hate to see their numbers when they’re clean.

      • Carew

        You still gotta have good hand-eye coordination to hit a baseball…so only the power numbers would go up :)

        • bob

          HGH has also been shown to improve vision and focus, which would help the hand-eye.

    • Boogens

      Yeah, I can understand from the perspective that we don’t want cheaters on our team but other than Garza or Soriano (both for trade value) does it really matter if any other Cubs are on the list?

      • Serious Cubs Fan

        Rizzo, Castro, The Shark. If they were on the list it be a huge deal, don’t mean to harsh, but that was an idiotic statement

        • Boogens

          It’s not an idiotic statement at all. To the general Cubs fan it may be a huge deal from an emotional perspective but it still doesn’t really matter in the context of this season.

          I like the three players you mentioned and glad that they’re on my team but chances are likely that at least two of the three won’t be significant parts of the team when they become consistent winners. We’d like to think that they will be but it’s not likely.

          • Drew7

            You think 2 of the 3 will be gone before the team is any good? Yeesh…

            • Boogens

              I’m not predicting or hoping that that will happen. It’s just that it’ll likely be a few more years before they’ll be consistently good so there will be some turnover of personnel.

  • Paul

    I hope they have more evidence than Der Fuhrer Goodell did.

    • TWC

      Well, that was a quicker realization of Godwin’s Law that is typical around here.

      • King Jeff

        Do you find it as funny as I do that Godwin’s Law has expanded to politics as well?

  • Adam

    I’m not sure how these players are going to be able to avoid serving these suspensions.

    If anything I think they’d be suspended and later try to recoup their salary.

  • http://deepcenterfield.blogspot.com Jason Powers

    And just think, the Cubs will benefit quite a bit from this, if said appeals go quickly (before the deadline) and the list includes all the teams competing (OAK, TX, NYY. Could really put a premium on the bids for our FA-bound “clean” players.

  • Patrick W.

    We don’t know yet what is going to happen, but let’s go by what we do know: someone at MLB is leaking info (against the CBA), they are reportedly going to try to get longer suspensions based on a technical reading of the rules and they reportedly hate that Ryan Braun got off on a technicality. If they suspend players who did not test positively because Tony Bosch says he shot them up, I think they are on shaky grounds.

    • Internet Random

      Crap. See below.

  • curt

    Darn there goes my fantasy team , Nelson Cruz , oyyyyyy.

    • Smackafilieyo

      Start trading ASAP….haha

  • Internet Random

    “If they do go this route, hopefully their documentation is extensive.”

    More documentation is always better, but the better of a witness Bosch is for MLB, the less documentation it will take.

  • jj

    Reading the various reports, MLBs case is pretty strong. Accomplice testimony is just part of the case – and this type of testimony is common in criminal cases (bad guys tend to do business with bad guys). The key on accomplice testimony is to corroborate part of the story by other means. Here, there are plenty of contemporaneous documents, both from Biogenesis and others, to lend credence to Bosch. Plus, the MLB players refusal to cooperate can be used as evidence of guilt. I also suspect MLB has some non-accomplice statements. Again, the standard is not that high (less than a criminal case) and a failed test is explicitly not required. MLB arbitrator may rule for the players out of a gut feeling, but I doubt it. And the majority of MLB players, I suspect, will want these 20 suspended. Whether MLBPA cares is another story.

    • Hansman1982

      They’re guilty because they aren’t cooperating? Thank God the Founding Fathers didn’t want people to be held to this standard.

      • jj

        Actually, in civil cases a refusal to cooperate or invoking a right against self-incrimination may be used as evidence of liability. MLB proceedings are not criminal cases (see above).

        • caryatid62

          They’re not being held “liable.” They’re being punished by an organization, and they have legal (ie. CBA) recourse. It will be interesting to see if MLBPA or the players themselves try and sue the league or Selig (as Vilma did).

      • Die hard

        Anti trust exemption has certain benes

  • Blublud

    Good. But I don’t think 100 games is enough. It should be 50 (1st offense) + 100 (2nd offense) = 150. We need to rid the game of these cheaters. I just wish Clemens and Bond were still playing so they could get hit too.

    • caryatid62

      If the public actually cared about steroids, the NFL wouldn’t be the most popular league in the country.

      • Diamond Don

        The rules are the rules. If you don’t follow the rules you must face the consequences. If the NFL allows it is the rules that allow. MLB does not allow juicing and players to get rich by using banned substances. I think if a player is found guilty in MLB they should have all their contracts voided.

        • caryatid62

          The NFL doesn’t allow it. Players get suspended for it.

          My point is that, by and large, the public doesn’t care about steroids as a moral issue. Look at these comments, for example. The majority of them aren’t focused on steroids–they’re focused on how the Cubs could take advantage of the situation. We’re selectively self-righteous about steroids; we’re only outraged when (a) we have nothing else to do, and (b) the offending players aren’t on our favorite team. Look at Giants fans when Bonds was under investigation, or Brewers fans now. And if the Cubs had Ryan Braun, we’d be equivocating and making subtle excuses for him too.

          We don’t really care about steroids, and the claims of outrage are, frankly, silly.

          • BT

            this is absurd. The argument that “people don’t really care about (moral position X) because they will defend it when their own team/player does it” doesn’t even qualify as an argument. It applies to virtually everything short of murder and child endangerment (and I’m not entirely sure about murder). I’m sure Patriots fans were cool with the Pats stealing plays a few super bowls ago, but that doesn’t mean people in general are OK with cheating. I know I was fine with Dennis Rodman when he was on the Bulls, but in general I’m not a fan of the type of players who kick photographers in the balls. People will justify virtually anything when it comes to their team, but that doesn’t mean, morally, they are cool with it in general. It just mean they have a blind spot.

            • caryatid62

              You can make all the “absurd” pronouncements you want, but that doesn’t make anything you say after that more valid.

              It’s not a “blind spot.” It’s selective morality. If it’s only wrong when someone I don’t like does it, that’s not morality.

              • BT

                claiming that the baseball population, in general, doesn’t care about steroids, because fans rally around hometown steroid users is an absurd argument. I don’t know how else to classify it, and I’m sorry if it offends you, but it is what it is. If there is a gentler term you’d prefer I use, lay it on me.

                And you are exactly inversely wrong. It is selective morality but you have it backwards. It’s not only wrong when someone I don’t like does it, it’s only OK when someone on my team does it. That’s far more selective.

                • Rebuilding

                  I think you are right about baseball. It is interesting that no one gives a damn about steroids in football. I guess people just assume those guys are giving up their body for our entertainment so who cares

                • caryatid62

                  It doesn’t offend me, it just demonstrates a weakness in your argument. Or at least a weakness in the confidence you have in your argument.

                  Feel free to continue calling it absurd or delusional. I’ll simply leave it at this: you’re utterly wrong. Completely and utterly wrong.

                  See ya later.

      • BT

        You are delusional. All you are arguing is that the public isn’t consistent about caring about steroids. Tell Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, Sosa, et al that the public doesn’t care about steroids. If guys are even suspected of doing steroids, their fans can turn on them quickly. On the other hand, if they own up to it, and take their punishment, people are fairly forgiving. The fact that people don’t care about it in other sports has nothing to do with anything. They care about it in baseball. A lot.

        • caryatid62

          No, they really don’t. If people don’t like the guy for other reasons, steroids is an easy way to trash him (see Clemens). If he’s hated already (ARod), then even when he admits to it, he’s never accepted (see the reaction to him during the 2012 season, prior to Biogenesis).

          David Ortiz was implicated in the Mitchell report, has never admitted to anything, and is widely beloved by fans.

          McGwire was given a standing ovation when he returned to St. Louis as a coach.

          Bonds was treated as a hero by the Giants fans throughout the entire process.

          Braun is being defended vehemently by Brewers fans.

          Large pockets of Cubs fans would love to see Sammy Sosa back with the Cubs organization.

          If the guy is already considered a jag, steroids are a great excuse to pile on him. If he’s not, we push it to the side. Simple as that.

          • BT

            Those are all examples of people rallying around their own players, which proves nothing (see above). Those players are all (with the exception of Ortiz who is NEVER discussed as a steroids guy, fairly or not) pretty much despised by everyone outside of their hometowns. It’s like saying their parents still like them so that proves that no one cares.

            Clemens was universally loved by the way, as he had his farewell tour, and people lined up to give him gifts as he made his supposed last starts in each city. People gave him standing ovations in every town. Now he’d be spit on in virtually every city in America. Doesn’t really fit the jagbag model. Neither did McGwire.

            • caryatid62

              That’s the point. They are only despised because they’re jags, not because they’re steroid guys. Roger Clemens was a jag before he was a steroid user–pretty much the entire east coast hated him (there was a column literally called “Is Roger Clemens the Antichrist?” written long before steroids).

              Ortiz, Pettitte, Tejada, Sheffield, Pudge Rodriguez, Mike Cameron, Jason Giambi–all solid guys, all still fairly popular.

              • Rebuilding

                I think you partially have it. I think the main reason Bonds, Sosa and Clemens are so hated is because they challenged cherished records or became HofF nominees while on the juice. They messed with the integrity of romanticized records while cheating. The other guys you mentioned didn’t threaten the stats every kid who loved baseball memorized when they were 8

      • http://vdcinc.biz 70′scub

        Screw your “public” I don’t want to see an arms race! I mean “Drug race”

      • Jimmy James

        Footballs individual stats are far less romanticized and that’s the main difference I see

    • Funn Dave

      Good point. The players who have been caught in the past are rightfully receiving 100-game suspensions this time around, but the players whose first and second offenses both came during the Biogenesis scandal should technically receive 150-game suspensions — 50 games for the first penalty, and 100 for the second.

  • Internet Random

    “[S]omeone at MLB is leaking info (against the CBA)”

    How do we know it’s someone at MLB?

    “[T]hey are reportedly going to try to get longer suspensions based on a technical reading of the rules and they reportedly hate that Ryan Braun got off on a technicality.”

    A “technical reading of the rules” is what Ryan Braun used to escape punishment in the first place. I don’t see why there should be a double standard here.

    If they suspend players who did not test positively because Tony Bosch says he shot them up, I think they are on shaky grounds.

    There’s more than one kind of evidence. How shaky do you think the ground would be if Bosch turned over videos of players actually being injected?

    • Internet Random

      “If they suspend players who did not test positively because Tony Bosch says he shot them up, I think they are on shaky grounds.”

      That should have been in quotes, above, too.

      • TWC

        Are you new here?

        • Internet Random

          Yes, and the commenting system is too difficult for me. The site admin really should get an “edit” button for the comments.

          • MichiganGoat

            Totally what a bum

          • DarthHater

            Good luck trying to get through to that guy.

            • Timmy

              “mike greenwell”

        • MichiganGoat

          Rookies ***shakes head***

    • Patrick W.

      Some comments: if ESPN is reporting actions to be taken by MLB without a source inside MLB then the story has zero credibility. My point about technicalities is your point… there shouldn’t be a double standard. MLB repeatedly argued that Braun should not be let off because of a technicality, it’s intellectually dishonest for them to now say “well technically the first offense was going to Bosch and the second offense was lying/not cooperating.” They should hold themselves to the same standards they would hold players. Finally, I sort of explicitly was referring to one scenario where they just went by Bosch’s word, which is all we’ve heard about. I didn’t feel it necessary to run down the possible forms of evidence which run the gambit from “that guy said they did it” through players buying air time on all major networks and shooting themselves up on national tv. That first one isn’t much.

      • Internet Random

        “[I]f ESPN is reporting actions to be taken by MLB without a source inside MLB then the story has zero credibility.”

        There are many parties and people involved, including the players’ union, all of its reps, and all of their staffs. The players have attorneys, and those attorneys have staffs. Bosch has already shown us how good he is at keeping secrets. He has attorneys and they have staffs. There are other potential sources for the leak.

        “My point about technicalities is your point… there shouldn’t be a double standard.”

        Glad you agree. The standard was set when the arbiter decided that technicalities do matter, and let Braun off scot-free. Saying now that technicalities only matter when they benefit a player would be a double standard.

        “MLB repeatedly argued that Braun should not be let off because of a technicality, it’s intellectually dishonest for them to now say ‘well technically the first offense was going to Bosch and the second offense was lying/not cooperating.’”

        It’s not even remotely intellectually dishonest to expect an arbiter to treat both sides of a dispute the same way.

        “Finally, I sort of explicitly was referring to one scenario where they just went by Bosch’s word, which is all we’ve heard about.”

        Oh, you mean the scenario that you made up… the one that pretends that MLB’s case relies solely on Bosch’s unsubstantiated chatter, while ignoring reports that Bosch’s attorneys “have met repeatedly with MLB officials over the past month, turning over numerous documents to substantiate his connection to the players named in company documents” and that Bosch is expected “to provide phone, text, email and other records.”

        “I didn’t feel it necessary to run down the possible forms of evidence which run the gambit from ‘that guy said they did it’ through players buying air time on all major networks and shooting themselves up on national tv.”

        No, you did not. Why should you be bothered with that, when you could just begin and end your analysis with “that guy said they did it”?

        Unsurprisingly, it would appear that MLB has been a little more thorough in its investigation than that.

        (By the way, “gamut” not “gambit”.)

        • Patrick W.

          OK

          • Internet Random

            Now you’ve deprived me of the joy of accusing you of being stubborn and closed-minded.

  • Rebuilding

    Selfishly, this can only help the Cubs as someone might panic or someone might think someone else is going to panic. Instability and flux can be taken advantage of.

    But the whole matter is really sad for baseball

    • YourResidentJag

      Agreed. What’s even sadder is that the Hall of Fame ceremonies are coming up and not a one modern day player is being elected. Regardless of what you think of some players “shady” pasts.

      • Rebuilding

        That’s what really bothers me as a fan. I love the numbers of the game, but now the all-time records don’t really mean anything since you have to decide which ones to ignore

  • YourResidentJag

    Yeah, it’s totally changed the structure and meaning certainly of the Hall.

  • Mr. Gonzo

    The institution of baseball is trying to button up this mess so that the historically pivotal steriod era looks good in their favor. Even though this should have happened a decade ago. Selig drug his feet like a one-legged clown on klonopins. If MLB has the ammo, these cheating cowards will get torn to shreds for every baseball fan to remember forever. If its true, the bastards must pay.

  • Die hard

    They all cheat– these got caught

    • DarthHater

      Hey, Brett, if we can’t have an edit button, can we at least get an automated function that posts a request for factual evidence after each of Die hard’s comments?

      • DarthHater

        T’would be a real time saver.

      • MichiganGoat

        The only treatment is to shun the comments, enjoy them from a distance but don’t feed the beast.

  • Funn Dave

    Drug offenses and lying about them ARE two separate offenses. That doesn’t seem odd to me one bit. Look at all the trials that get publicized in the media–nine times out of ten, there are multiple charges involved for separate parts of the same incident. I don’t see why MLB would be any different. Also, think about it logically: if two players were caught taking PEDs, and one of them lied about it during the investigation, wouldn’t the one who lied receive the harsher penalty?

  • aCubsFan

    For those players that have been doping and are currently injured, their suspension shouldn’t start until they’re off the disabled list.

    I read the other week the reason A-rod was/is attempting to get on a major league field so fast is so he doesn’t loose the 100+ million left on his contract.

  • JoeyCollins

    This entire thing is one big joke, and the MLB is only making things worse for themselves. I’m fine with players getting punished for cheating, but this smells of a witch hunt that has every possibility of getting ugly. The MLB cutting deals with a drug dealer, promising they will put in a good word with the cops, in order to get revenge on Braun and other players they feel have escaped the current system, is ridiculous. Everyone complaining about the players illegally purchasing drugs needs to realize that most all of the drugs in question are actually legal, just banned in the MLB. How Bosch acquired them, and whether or not it was legal for him to sell them, is a police matter and nothing baseball should be interfering with. Another issue I take is with the complaining about the hall and record book. Anyone who believes the records are now tainted because of PED’s is disillusion as to the methods used by players before PED’s. Whether it was greenflies, Mantels corked bat, or shots of who knows what to play through pain, or putting Vaseline on the ball, players have always done whatever they could to get an advantage. Speaking of the ball, baseball inflated their own record books when they juiced the ball, enhancing the performance of everyone who wasn’t a pitcher. Selig is taking this all too personal and is opening himself up to be embarrassed.

    • ScottK

      Baseball is not interested in how Bosch acquired the drugs – they brought suit against him for interfering with the CBA that the league has with its players by providing them with drugs that are banned in the agreement. The case is legitimate enough that a Florida judge denied an attempt to dismiss the case and the U.S. attorney’s office in Miami is investigating Bosch.

      You’re made at MLB for working with Bosch – that’s silly. Anyone over 10 should understand that in certain types of cases, like ones where hard physical evidence is non-existent and testimony is crucial, you have to work with scumbags in order to catch bigger scumbags. Think about all of the losers that WADA had testimony from in order to get Lance. It was a huge list of known liars, dopers, drug dealers, and cheaters. That’s how you have to prove cases like that.

      I don’t like Selig one bit, but it’s not like he rides a black horse, carries a scepter, and is able to just do whatever he wants. MLB has an enormous legal team which I’m quite sure would not allow these suspensions unless they know they have a very strong case against the offending players. Wait and see what evidence they have.

      • caryatid62

        So you’re telling me that the guy who allegedly imported, sold, and administered drugs to potentially hundreds of people is the “scumbag,” but the single user of a drug is the “bigger scumbag?”

        First time I’ve ever read that.

        • ScottK

          In the context of cleaning up baseball, that’s absolutely what I’m saying. I don’t think anyone would argue that taking out the Contis would clean up the game better or faster than taking out the Bonds.

          Also, even though I think you knew what I meant and are just trying to troll me, in this case when I say ‘bigger’ I don’t mean more of a scumbag, I mean more important/powerful. Hence the analogy above.

          • caryatid62

            I know exactly what you meant.

            I actually think A LOT of people would make that argument. And have made that argument. Craig Calcaterra, for one:

            http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/11/why-we-cant-talk-intelligently-about-steroids-in-baseball/

            Once again, the dealer is less powerful/important than the user? Do you really think that suspending Ryan Braun, the guy who has already made hundreds of millions of dollars and will continue to make millions of dollars, is going to do more to “clean up baseball” than going after people who are actually providing drugs to players? Do you think that the abstract concept of “deterrence” and “making an example of someone” based upon suspensions is going to matter more than the fact that these drugs are made available by dealers and doctors and offer the opportunity to make hundreds of millions of dollars? Really? Really?

            • ScottK

              Yes, I do believe that. MLB will clean up steroids when enough big names get caught using that the fans won’t tolerate it anymore. Sacking the dealers will certainly help, but it starts and ends with the players. I bet there are plenty of athletes who saw what happened to Lance and said, “holy crap – being caught can ruin anybody”. I’m a cycling fan and had to look up the doctors who helped Lance dope. But nabbing the doctors is going to have a greater effect on cleaning up the sport?

              Calcaterra doesn’t make that argument in the article at all. He’s just suggesting that we dive deeper into the steroid issue in order to solve it. If you went up to him in 2002 and told him (or anyone else for that matter) that for the sake of cleaning up the game he could nail Conti or Bonds, you think he would choose Conti? That’s absolutely crazy.

              Anyways, if you could read my comment well above I have some questions about the Biogenesis case I was hoping you could answer.

  • Don

    Finally MLB is nailing these guys. I couldn’t be happier about lying Ryan Braun. I have no respect for cheaters who lie especially after being caught with thier pants down! You should not get off on a technicality! Finally Bud is doing the right thing!!!!

    • http://vdcinc.biz 70′scub

      How bout stripping the Hall of fame vote from those phony writers that supported Braun after he tested positive. These voters define what and all that is wrong in sports at the same time they had their lips glued to Braun’s ass they were riding their high almighty horse when it came time for Mac, Bonds, Sosa and Rocket!

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  • Chris Spangler

    And here we sit years long passed since the big red machine… leaving Pete Rose dead in its tracks.. I look at Rose gambling (if and only if it were for his team to win) not that big of a deal compared to steroids.. just my personal opinion.. haven’t seen anyone in the league since him with the heart and dedication.. and this is coming from a pirates fan

    • DarthHater

      “Well, that’s football.”
      – Ray Fosse, after the famous All-Star Game collision with Pete Rose in 1970

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