Quantcast

get a brain moransI am mighty tired this morning. Dear Cubs, Please don’t trade Matt Garza in the next eight or so hours.

  • I don’t know who Mike Bailey is, but he writes for a CBS affiliate in St. Louis, and he wrote this:

St. Louis Cardinal fans are acknowledged throughout baseball as knowledgeable, sophisticated and baseball-savvy. It is a reputation well-deserved and appreciated by ballplayers and managers who covet the weekend series in St. Louis where sell-out crowds enthusiastically cheer good plays by both teams.

But if St. Louis is the Mensa Society of the baseball university, then Cub fans are still using coloring books. They enthusiastically boo an intentional walk in a game situation, cheer for fans to throw an opposing team’s home run ball back onto the field and delight in mocking their team’s efforts when they lose and exaggerate the significance when they win.

  • This was not written ironically. I’m guessing Mike Bailey has not seen Baseball’s Best Fans on Twitter. If that’s sophisticated and baseball-savvy, I’ll gladly take the crayons employed by FacebookCubs.
  • Dale Sveum on Starlin Castro’s pre-swing approach, which is apparently improving. “He has the leg lift,” Sveum said, per Cubs.com, “but now he’s using it for the purpose it’s meant to be. He’s getting on his backside and the knee is getting over his back foot and he’s not front forward. It gives you the ability to use your hands and get to a fastball when you do that.”
  • Credit to Carlos Villanueva: in just his second start since returning to the rotation, he went six innings and allowed just six base runners yesterday. However you slice the outcome, that’s a great outing.
  • The Cubs’ top pick this year, Kris Bryant, officially signed yesterday and did the show-him-off-at-Wrigley thing, together with his family. His dad, joking about the pre-Draft process, per CSN: “They totally vetted him. He was vetted more than the President. They talked to his high school math teacher, his English teacher, all his coaches in high school, all his coaches at San Diego, his teachers at San Diego, athletic administrators, sports information directors. They knew what they were doing. They definitely did their job. I’m really proud of that.” I dig that.
  • Theo Epstein on the state of the farm system, in light of the Bryant signing (per CSN): “I feel really good about [where we're at]. It’s obvious what direction we’re going and how important a robust farm system is for us. It’s one thing to talk about it. It’s another to start to feel like you’re making some headway. I like the people we have in player development. I like a lot of the talent we have. Hopefully one thing that will separate us as a farm system are the numerous potential impact guys that we have. We’ve had some depth for a while. Now, there are a handful of guys that we can look at and think ‘if we do a nice job of helping their ceiling, they can be potential impact guys in the big leagues.’ You need those guys to get where you want to go. It’s nice to look at the progress we’ve made, but we’ve got an awful long way to go still.”
  • Oswego Chris

    I really don’t like to delve into petty rivalry stuff, but Cardinal fans(at least the ones I know) do act like they are more knowledgeable…believe it or not, when I used to coach…the Cardinal fan fathers gave me the most grief, and I truly believe part of it was because they knew I was a Cubs’ fan…hence they felt they knew more than I did…

    I would argue that there are just more Cubs’ fans, therefore our knowledgeable fan to meathead ratio is not what the Cardinals is…

    I doubt there is a Cardinal’s blog out there like BN, where I am continually amazed at how much our fans know about our farm system…and other teams

    • http://deepcenterfield.blogspot.com Jason Powers

      Its their whole Branch Rickey, Stan Musial, Lou Brock, Bob Gibson, Whitey Herzog, Ozzie Smith, Tony LaRussa winning ways that makes them think its their right to talk down to the Cubs faithful. Almost forgetting we did not pick our players, our coaches, or the front offices of those most depressing times.

      Easy to be smug while winning. Harder and more honorable to back a team that has not quite put it all together. Leadership was at the heart of those matters.

      BUT it’s gonna be better!

    • Kyle

      Yes, there are Cardinals fans blogs with as much depth as Bleacher Nation, and then some (and BN, while very good, is not the most knowledgeable Cubs site in terms of community. In the top third, easily, but not the top).

      There are hyperknowledgeable Rays fan sites, Royals fan sites, any other team you could think to list that has a tiny relative fanbase. We are not unique and special snowflakes :)

      • EricR

        But my mom said I was a special snowflake!

  • Oswego Chris

    That’s a great Pic by the way, apparently that fella doesn’t like Erin Moran(Joanie on Happy Days) and her family…

    • Stinky Pete

      Holy crap. Chachi has really let himself go.

  • Montana Hipster

    Mike Bailey is quite the clown. I went back and read some of his previous “work” for channel 4 in St. Louis. Let’s just say he is not exactly a threat to those hoping for a Pulitzer. He writes with all the philosophical insight of Ozzie Guillen or Hawk Harrelson complaining about Wrigley and Cub fans.

    • baldtaxguy

      TWTW is not philosophical? Mursay!!

  • Cubbie in NC

    Didn’t Cardinal fan just complain because the grounds crew in St Louis were drawing a tribute to Musial on the back of the mound because a cross was involved in it??

  • Justin

    I would love to know what the offers for Garza are that the Cubs don’t feel are worthy. Starting him again is just risky as hell for many reasons. I guess I will just hold my breath again when he is on the mound….

    • Mat B

      Agreed. I’m afraid it’s going to be just like last year.

      • Satch Dobrey

        Double agree. And, if you think the redbird fans are more knowledgeable, try going to a game in St. Louis. The only thing they know is the Cubs haven’t won it all since 1908. Without the hate they have for Chicago they are super ignorant.

        • http://bleachernation.com someday…2015?

          Last time I went to St. Louis was the year they opened up their new park. They had some redneck working their walking around the bleachers with a empty beer can on a stick, screaming “BEER ON A STICK, WHO WANTS A BEER ON A STICK!” I guess that’s their Ronnie woo woo.

    • Mick

      He’s only had 10 starts so far this season. If you were the Red Sox, Rangers, A’s, Indians, etc. wouldn’t you want to make sure Garza can hold up for the long haul before offering your best prospects? If we want a top-100 prospect, we’re going to have to take this thing to the deadline.

      • Justin

        I wouldn’t wait any longer if I really wanted him. If I was a team considering trading for him I would do it asap. He’s only a rental anyway and to get the most out of him teams need to obviously get him asap.

      • Chad

        That is counter-intuitive. 2 or 3 more starts aren’t going to prove his durability. If the cubs trade him now, that team gets a bonus 2 or 3 starts for their team making the prospect they trade more valuable. If he starts 2 or 3 more times for the cubs, gets traded and then breaks down what did that show?

        • DocPeterWimsey

          No, but those 2-3 starts might demonstrate Garza’s non-durability! It is probable that some team (possibly the Rangers) nearly ended up with major egg on their face last summer, after all.

          • Chad

            This is true, but he could just as easily stay with the cubs for 3 more starts then get injured after they make the trade. Nobody is saying there is no risk to this, but saying that seeing 2 or 3 more starts for the cubs is a definition of his durability is silly. If you are going to trade a top prospect you want to get as much return value as you can. If you get 2 or 3 more starts you are doing that. Yes you can save yourself a prospect if Garza gets hurt, but you also leave the door open to another team taking him. When you are in a playoff race and have a legit shot you have to take it (Nats last year for example). Those chances don’t come every year.

            • Mick

              2 or 3 more Matt Garza starts would be 20-30% more Matt Garza appearances. It appears to me teams are being cautious about what they give up to acquire a player whose been elbow injured for the last year and only has 10 starts to demonstrate his health and effectiveness. I’m sure the Cubs have mediocre offers on the table which reflect that team’s uneasiness with his durability status. From this point each healthy and effective start Garza makes, that uneasiness dissipates thus increasing his stock value. As a Cubs fan, I’d much rather increase our return to acquire an impact talent as opposed to a couple wild cards that scouts aren’t thrilled about.

  • Frank

    I hait too admit its, but I tink tha witer has apoint. I just never new redturd fans were dat sofistkated an smart. Tank you.

  • Jimmy James

    Wow way to paint a fandom with a broad brush…I guess when I went to Busch and the group of twenty something’s behind me were arguing whether Adam Kennedy was a pitcher or infielder than their entire stadium must have been filled with idiots…..

  • Zachary

    I wouldn’t say they are more knowledgeable. They might have a higher percentage but only because they have less fans. They are just on their high horse lately cause they haven’t been bad in a while.

  • Awakeape

    There is a difference between real cubs fans and the idiots who could care less about the game at wrigley and are just obnoxious who give us a bad wrap.

    • themillhah

      was that a ceasar wrap?

  • Kevin

    As a Cubbie fan living in STL nothing that a St. Louis “journalist” says or writes concerning te Cubs surprises me anymore. They all spout how smart the “best fans in baseball are” and write everything with a bias twist that favors the Cardinals (I never see that in the Trib).

  • Bra Arthur’s husband

    I’m a good mood today. I went down to Busch (old) back in the summers of 03 and 04 and the Cards fans were actually some of the nicest folks as at an opposing stadium.

    I don’t the like CArds, but the fans were ok. Until a friend said something about the Rams that night in a bar–that got heated.

    Giants fans are nasty of course they could have laughed at my 2010 Colvin Shirsey. Who knows.

    I lived in Philly for many years and wore a Dunston jersey and it got bad. No fights.

    Cubs staff will tell that Tigers and Yankee fans are among the worst they have had.

    That is photo is great Brett.

    To be fair, Andy over at desipio.com has used it for his avatar and on his blog for a long time.
    He might not be for everyone (sort of the “anti-Brett”). But it has lived there a long time. No one is poaching. Just wanted to put it out there.

    Cards fans aren’t great but at least they aren’t bandwagon fans like we see in so many other sports.

    • DarthHater

      So, what’s it like being married to Bra Arthur? More entertaining than being married to Bea, I’ll warrant.

      • themillhah

        It’s the husband of brother Arthur…

    • AbrahAM Lincoln

      Yeah Brah.

  • Clark Addison

    They work in St. Loo and wish they were in Chicago.

  • CubFanBob

    Born and raised in central Illinois I was a cardinal fan at the age if four for less than half a year. Thank The Lord my daddy watched wgn and brought me up north to games.

  • DarthHater

    Cardinal fans are the Menses Society of baseball.

  • Kyle

    Cardinals fans do seem to get the basics, such as “it’s good when our team wins a lot, and bad when they don’t.”

    If Cubs fans could get that down, I’d be a lot happier.

    • DarthHater

      So, Cubs fans who prefer a more patient approach to rebuilding than you like are lacking in basic understanding of baseball. You know, that’s really an obnoxious view to be proclaiming at 8:30 in the morning.

      • Kyle

        I’m at my most obnoxious in the mornings.

        But yeah, Cubs fans who “prefer a more patient approach to rebuilding” are missing the forest of basic baseball knowledge for the trees of farm system errata.

        • DarthHater

          I think it’s more accurate to say that many of them have loads of baseball knowledge – basic and otherwise – but misplaced priorities.

          In other circumstances, I wouldn’t give a rat’s backside about this degree of nuance, but it’s sensitive territory when you start placing Cards fans above knowledgeable and dedicated Cubs fans – even those with whom you disagree about how to be a GM.

          • Kyle

            Well, Cubs fans make up for it by not being uncultured hicks in all other facets of life.

        • Mick

          Blah, blah, blah.

        • Eternal Pessimist

          But your “forest” is missing an r…

          • Eternal Pessimist

            Strike that!

      • Blublud

        IDK, I agree with Kyle. We(this includes myself) actually cheer for our team to lose so we can build a better system, yet the Cards win and still have a strong system.

        • DarthHater

          I think cheering for one’s team to lose is wrong. I also think that GMs, owners, and managers, who try to deliberately make a professional team lose are ethically on a level with the Black Sox. But that doesn’t mean that they lack basic baseball knowledge. that’s all i’m saying.

          • mudge

            Thanks for this.

        • mjhurdle

          I think there is a huge difference with taking solace in the fact that a loss could help the Cubs eventually, and actively rooting for a Cubs loss.

          Im sure there are some out there, but i personally have not witnessed any Cub fans rooting for the Cubs to lose a game.
          Most of what i have seen is the ‘Crap, we lost. Well, at least that will help the draft position next year.”
          Nothing wrong with finding a silver lining imo.

          • DarthHater

            Agreed.

            • MichiganGoat

              Wrong, disagree get a brian moran ;)

              • DarthHater

                Dang. I recently threw away my “Get a Moran, Brains!” picture, thinking there would not be another occasion to use it. Sigh.

  • Timmy

    I’d frame things a bit different. Cubs fans have become so cynical that we don’t root for the team anymore, and we boo decisions for fun for humor. For all the praise of business logic on this board, one thing one almost never sees is praise of good honest on the field baseball. The article seems to identify that as evidence of baseball ‘wisdom’. How often do you think the Cards sued its fans, fought with the city, and planned a sophisticated offensive against the federal government?

    • Timmy

      Except for Brett’s expertly written pieces, of course…

      • DarthHater

        [img]http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/e20/fb4/327/resized/abes-meme-generator-keep-brown-nosing-youll-never-get-promoted-5c5a4b.jpg?1336874036.jpg[/img]

        • DarthHater

          Oh, and good morning, Timmy. :-D

  • TSB

    Judging by the economy in St. Louis, their fans have a lot of time on their hands to study Cardinal baseball…

    • Timmy

      boom!

  • bobo justis

    It is the true sign of a “moran” to judge your intelligence by what you know about baseball. Baseball is a fascinating triviality – the wallpaper of summer – but if they care any smart kid can figure out the entirety of the game with a week’s effort. Let Cardinal fans be Cardinal fans. They can’t help it any more than I can help being a Cub fan.

  • Brian Peters

    I get a kick out of seeing that pic, too….mostly because my mom’s maiden name was Moran.

  • AnonAuth

    [img]http://i.imgur.com/8yKbTr9.jpg[/img]

    url: http://calamitiesofnature.com/archive/?c=215

    • DarthHater

      Need to devote some brain power to making your image fit the page, dude. ;-)

  • beerhelps

    The old argument over “who has the best / smartest fans” is ridiculous. There are cool people and a-holes in every city you go. I’m not quite sure why it comforts people to think, well, at least “we” are better then “them” That said, screw Mike Bailey.

  • DarthHater

    In any event, it seems quite clear that Brett posted this Cardinal fans story in a cynical effort to sidetrack us into arguing about trivialities and distract us from baseball news while he loafs in bed. :-P

  • Mak

    Obvioisly Bailey’s article is a fallacy, but I want to share my favorite cards fan memory. I believe it was the last year in old Busch, my dad and I were driving through St Louis on our annual road trip home from picking me up from college Texas. My dad had snagged sky box seats from a client, that was filled with cards fans.

    We were friendly and kept to ourselves for the most part, but I was wearing a Cubs hat (they weren’t playing the cards — in some cases I agree that can be inflammatory, but trust me, our demeanor was very friendly).

    Some cards fan started heckling me and said, and I quote “ugh, you’re a cubs fan? I’d rather watch gay porn than the cubs.”

    I just shook my head, in front of all of that guys friend and said “I don’t doubt that.” They left us alone the rest of the night. I don’t think my dads ever been so proud.

  • Tommy

    In response to Mr. Bailey’s article:
    Way to stereotype an entire fan base. Just for the record – not all Cub fans do the things you say in this ridiculous article, just like all Cardinal fans do not behave in a mature fashion at their games. I wonder if you’ve ever actually sat in the stands at a game in your life when I read this garbarge.

    Finding and quoting something left on a comment board as evidence is not exactly Mensa material, Mr. Bailey. If you’d like, I’d be happy to find a plethora of spiteful and idiotic statements made by Cardinal fans.

    By far, one of the worst articles ever written. You should be ashamed to call yourself a writer.

  • DocPeterWimsey

    My thought is that you can tell a lot about a fanbase by the broadcasters. They both influence how the fans look at the game and respond to what fans ask. To that end, I can think of one broadcasting team that routinely tosses out OBP and even OPS without explaining what they are (it’s assumed that you’ll know), and who caveats all of the “clutch” stats with “it’s a tiny sample size.”

    Now, they do broadcast for a team with Red as the primary color: but they don’t work in St. Louis.

  • Rebuilding

    That article is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. Mike Bailey being a Cardinal fan refutes his whole premise.

    • Timmy

      i agree of course. the guys here care a lot about the team and think a lot about how baseball works. they’re wrong about everything because they’re taking cues from the new owners, who hate baseball, but a lot of brain power clearly goes into posts here.

      • DarthHater

        “they’re wrong about everything because the voice in my tin foil hat told me so…”

        FTFY :-P

      • mudge

        So you are not included with “the guys here” in your assessment?

    • another JP

      Mike Bailey is the stereotypical Cardinal fan… if you want to know how great they are, they’ll always be happy to tell you. And this kind of article always seems to pop up in St. Louis papers when they’re playing the Cubs in order to bolster their sorry circulation numbers. Not the first time it’s happened after the Cubs have beaten them either.

      If you want to have some fun at the next Cubs/Cards game, look at a normal Card fan after they score some runs or win a ballgame. They’ll stand up and cheer with their chest stuck out and this self-satisfied look on their face as they look around them. It’s really hilarious.

      • Timmy

        no doubt that fan is deserving of jeers……forever

  • jt

    Gregg took over the closer’s role on April 23. Cubs record since that date is 35W/36L.
    Perhaps the shallow depth will become even less deep after the trade deadline and the proximity to being a 0.500 team will slip further away. But there is something there and we should soon expect a winning team. IMO, 2014 is none too soon.

  • http://Bleachernation Lou Brock

    Having played for both cities in my HOF career I’d just like to say ” can’t we all just get along”.

  • Ballgame

    When I went to Busch Stadium a while ago I was there for Jeff Weaver’s first start as a Cardinal (vs. Cubs). After about 4+ IP, 5 ER fans gave him a standing ovation when he was leaving the mound. A few Cards fans were gettin into it because a few knew how ridiculous it was to cheer that sort of outing. I know they were welcoming him to town, but let’s be serious…

    A few good friends of mine live in StL and they adamantly say that they’d give up ALL World Series wins for one Stanley Cup win. Apparently they’re a hockey town according to them and one thing is still certain. Even tho Albert is gone, Cards fans still take it in the Pujols!!!

  • http://deepcenterfield.blogspot.com Jason Powers

    Well, one thing for all the talented folks that post here. IF you are committed enough, and have the talent and expertise and devotion to creating a champion, there is a position or two to do that from: http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/mlb/help/jobs.jsp?c_id=chc

    The FO might even listen to your ideas, as a director position states:
    “Contribute to baseball decisions and proactively generate ideas for player acquisition and player usage.
    •Other projects as directed the Baseball Operations leadership team. ”

    So if you want to beat those Cards with your vast array of baseball knowledge, insight, scouting tools, and good old fashion horse sense, then they are taking applications.

    Good Luck!

    • Kyle

      Darn my non-quantitative degree. I was *this* close.

    • DarthHater

      If only it said “psychoactively generate ideas for player acquisition and player usage,” Die hard would be a shoo-in. Pity.

      • http://deepcenterfield.blogspot.com Jason Powers

        Does not hurt to apply. They do allow you to upload various works that could be influential in their selection, aside from your “non-quant” resume. So if you have logical ideas, and actually put them to paper, well shucky darn, that can over come a lot. Even Die Hard with a Revenge can create a DOC or PDF file of “interest.”

Bleacher Nation Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. Bleacher Nation is a private media site, and it is not affiliated in any way with Major League Baseball or the Chicago Cubs. Neither MLB nor the Chicago Cubs have endorsed, supported, directed, or participated in the creation of the content at this site, or in the creation of the site itself. It's just a media site that happens to cover the Chicago Cubs.

Bleacher Nation is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

Google+