Quantcast

dale sveum cubsChicago Cubs President of Baseball Operations Theo Epstein confirmed yesterday that staffing/coaching decisions are coming, and will be announced on Monday. Those decisions will include at least some changes, though the degree and extent of those changes will probably remain a mystery until Monday.

Dave Kaplan, among others, expects that the change will include the dismissal of Dale Sveum, who has one year remaining on his contract. It wasn’t a week ago that I thought a managerial change was extremely unlikely. I no longer feel that way. That’s not to say that Sveum – and/or some of his coaches – might not survive this evaluation period, nor is it to say that he’s not the right man for the job in 2014. I simply no longer think it isn’t a possibility that the Cubs will make a change. That feeling is based on a variety of things – some public, some not – and it leaves me a bit surprised. But the fact is, the gentlemen in charge have far more visibility to the needs of the organization and the successes or failures of the coaching staff than I do. If they believe a change is in order, then they’ll make it, however close to the last decision it might be.

On Sveum, specifically, Dan Bernstein says that the Cubs and Joe Girardi’s camp are in a “very real” courtship process (subject to the rules), and both sides are interested. At least one source tells Patrick Mooney that a Girardi/Epstein marriage could come with a power struggle, though others tell Mooney that isn’t the case. It remains to be seen how things would play out if the Yankees desperately wanted to keep Girardi, and the Cubs desperately wanted to land him. It may never come to that, of course.

Mooney’s piece also has a bit on yesterday’s vogue candidate – again, for a job that may never be open – Brad Ausmus. He may not be as serious of a candidate as Peter Gammons obliquely suggested.

We’ll see if anything new emerges between now and Monday. It would seem that the Cubs are weighing an important and difficult decision here. It would be ideal if they knew they definitely preferred Sveum over any other hypothetical candidate, OR knew that the hypothetical candidate that they prefer is available and immediately willing to sign up. Absent perfect knowledge of one of those two things, the front office will have to choose: stick with Sveum as of Monday, knowing that it may have been possible to land someone else preferable; or let Sveum go, knowing that they may whiff on a better candidate, and end up regretting moving on from Sveum.

Nothing’s easy.

  • Die hard

    If Girardi comes does he bring over former Cub pitching coach who ruined Prior with towel drills?

    • Cub Style

      You keep thinking that’s what was wrong with Prior. You’d be wrong, but go ahead.

    • CGruegs45

      He gon bring that #pimp Rothschild. #BringBackLarry #LarrySwag

    • macpete22

      No, Mariano Rivera as bullpen coach and Andy Pettitte for pitching coach

      • X The Cubs Fan

        When Jeter retires he could be our hitting coach.

      • CGruegs45

        #MoTheBullpenCoach #MoProblems #IfuHereSayUThere

    • Eric

      You know that’s not what happened.

  • http://www.twitter.com/jslip1 JSlip1

    It’ll be interesting to see how the whole thing plays out. Nothing is easy or guaranteed at this stage. I think we might find ourselves at a critical juncture in this process where the next steps could exacerbate current problems or serve as a catalyst for improvement.

  • MichiganGoat

    Is it a contractual thing or a deadline the Cubs created with Monday? It really doesn’t give them much time to explore options.

    • http://www.twitter.com/jslip1 JSlip1

      I think it’s the wrap-up of their official end-of-season reviews. I like to think they keep their fingers on the pulse of the managerial landscape throughout the year in light of our 5 game improvement over last year.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      It’s just wanting to do things promptly when the season ends – best for everyone involved, even if it is tricky.

      • Tom A.

        Agree ! That is just being profesional. By the way, they already know what will be done.

      • CGruegs45

        #BrettPost #MyIdol #GiveBrettTheHotSauce #HeLoveBoobies #AintBoutThatLife #AyYoWatchItGoItsTimeForTheRomeoShow #LetTheCrowdGetLive #PutOnYoAGame #Elementary #WhyTheyAllResentMe #ItAintMyFault

        • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

          Done sparingly and cleverly, I could grow to love this schtick.

          • Arrieta’sUncle

            You are tougher than me.

          • Rich H

            He has already went way past the clever cute stage but it is now a hashtag world so you might as well own it.

        • MichiganGoat

          Oh if we only had an ignore button

          • CGruegs45

            Then id ‘gnore all ya’ll. #Truth #AllICareBoutIsBrett #AllTheGirlsDontKnowHowToAct #2016 #WriteItDownToday #TheTurnUpIsReal

            • CubsFan4Life

              I completely ignore everything that CGruegs45 writes.

              The only other choice would be to stop reading all of the comments, but I enjoy reading everyone else because they know how to express their opinions in an intellectual manner. They actually write sentences.

              I’m pretty sure CGruegs45 has no idea what I am talking about.

              • CGruegs45

                U know u talkin to a Harvard grad bro. #ClassOf04

                • MichiganGoat

                  Trolling at its finest

                  • CGruegs45

                    Ay stop drumming a dead beat bro #AintNoLie #InDisClubAyyyy

                    • Soda Popinski

                      This guy again? CGruegs, I don’t think we have anything in common. Why are you here, again?

                    • Hansman1982

                      Drugs are bad. Mkay

          • @cubsfantroy

            Now I remember why I stopped coming here.

            • Rizzovoir Dog

              The articles are still great. Community has gone to shit.

              • chrisfchi

                Sadly, this is true. I still drop in every day for the writing. Lately I just ignore the comments.

  • Cub Style

    I haven’t had a problem with Bosio and, obviously, Dave McKay has been a wonder to have. Other than them, I could do without Dale’s staff, especially Rowson.

  • CubsFanSaxMan

    Let’s be real. The manager for next year will make very little, if any difference. I still think that if the FO wants a pawn for a manager then Theo/Jed might as well suit up and manage the team.

    • cubes

      the manager may not make a huge difference in terms of wins/losses… but he does make a huge difference in terms of expectations.

      If Dale stays I can see the FO having a similar approach to the offseason as last year. which may lead to a sell off mid season next year again and an another punted for prospects season.

      If Dale is fired for Joe, Media/Fan expectations will be much higher, and the FO will have to bring in players that are better than flappable tommy-john recovering assets.

      If 2015 really is the year to be competitive then 2014 is the year we need establish a winning culture and stop weeding through the trash heap for players

      • THEOlogical

        I love it Cubes! Exactly right, if their viewing the window to win is in 2015, then 2014 most definitely has to be a season of players that will help benefit this team in the long run or near term. Maybe trade away 1 or 2 players IF we are out of it, but we can’t go into the season like we have these last two.

    • Eternal Pessimist

      I know there has been the suggestion by many on this blog that the manager might only swing 2-3 wins one way or another (significant still), but I think that drastically underestimates the effect he may have on individual player performance.

      This will be impossible to really measure since each team will not have identical assets, same conditions, etc…being managed by different managers, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Tony was responsible for 5 -10 extra wins a year for St Louis…players just performed for him and I have no doubt he led in a way that got the best from his players.

      • arta

        is that why they miss him? joking. IMO the 5-10 u mention is not real.

      • ClevelandCubsFan

        10 wins? You honestly think he could take a .500 skill team and make it a 91 win division winner?

        No way.

      • DocPeterWimsey

        People have looked at this. There is evidence that veteran managers (which Girardi is not: the effect turns up after a decade or more) do tend to get better performance from players than expected from ZIPs projections. However, it would be good for a couple of wins a year, tops.

      • Rich H

        Ask A’s fans what they think of LaRussa! He had more HOF’ers on those Oakland teams than should have been legal and GOD had to give him a hand to get his one WS ring there (1989).

    • Dustin S

      It comes down to how much influence a manager has on the performance of the young guys like Castro/Rizzo/Samardzija, which is always a debate. It’s also not out of the question that a top manager could have won another 5+ games this season with better lineup/bullpen management. There were 2 or 3 games I could even tab on bad send calls. In Dale’s defense he knew going in that he’d have to be aggressive to have any chance with this roster.

      I will say that I watched a whole lot of Cubs minor league ball this season, even more than I watched the big league team. It was fun and different. Even made it to a couple Kane County games. Plus Fifth Third Bank has some decent local brews to help things along. It’s a nice alternative to help avoid rebuild burnout.

      • DocPeterWimsey

        You cannot blame a loss on a bad “send” call for several reasons. Some are truistic: if that run had scored, then at best the Cubs score as many runs as the opponent. The rest are probabilistic: given how weak the Cubs lineup was for many stretches of batters? There is a good chance that the run does not score anyway. If it does score, then gGiven how bad the Cubs relievers were and how poor the offense was, that probably delays the loss.

        The broader issue is, how many more runs did the Cubs score by sending runners than they lost by sending them? Fans count the guys out at the plate as lost runs (even though they are only fractions of lost runs!) but they don’t count the guys who were safe as “extra” runs ((of which, again, they are fractions).

        • ClevelandCubsFan

          Right on.

          • Eternal pessemist

            Yes you can debate what constitutes a bad send call, but to blanketly dismiss this is shortsighted. He may as well just send everyone from 3rd since their bats are so anemic, right?

            It may not have gad a huge overall effect (the cubs are terrible at bringing them home from 3rd anyway) but may have cost them a game or possibly two. A bad pitching decision here or there? It can add up.

    • Scotti

      “The manager for next year will make very little, if any difference.”

      Wrong. 100% wrong. The manager next year will have his grubby little developmental hands on several key young MLB and next year we should *start* to see the Baez’s, Bryant’s, etc. The manager for next year is HUGE for the development of this team going out ten years!

      • Larry Horse

        I think he was speak more along the lines of the team record, not the development of young players.

  • http://Bleachernation.com Frank

    Just because they might announce possible dismissals Monday doesn’t mean they have to name replacements right then. So the imagined time crunch may not be that great. I like McKay and Bosio. Rawson needs to go. The people that say managers don’t mater haven’t been paying attention to Cleveland and Tampa among other places.

    • ClevelandCubsFan

      Uhhh I also paid attention to Nick Swisher and Jason Bourn and Giambi and…

  • cubfanincardinalland

    How can fans of a team that had Mike Quade as a manager think that a manager doesn’t make much difference?

    • http://pipitographer.tumblr.com Nick Pipitone

      Nailed it. if Girardi is available and willing to come to the Cubs, which he surely would be being from Chicago, this is a no-brainer. I like McKay and Rowson. But get rid of the rest of the Brew Crew coaching staff — Bosio, Sveum, and Deer. The development of our young players absolutely depends on this move.

      • cubbiesOHcubbies

        What EXACTLY has Rowson done to earn your seal of approval? Or is he your uncle???

      • DocPeterWimsey

        There is zero reason to think that it will affect the development of young players. Really, by the time players get to MLB it is too late: the true “development” is in signing guys with tools and then in the minors.

        • Professor Snarks

          Doc, you better call Theo and Jed and let them know, because a lot of people out there think Dale is gone because of how he is handling his young players. I have no idea. I don’t have a clue who is working with which player.

        • Scotti

          Development in the minors is important. Development in the majors–especially the first couple of years–is also very, very important. There are things that occur in the majors that playing in the minors just can’t prepare a player for: Life in the Big City, adoration of tens of thousands of fans, massive media exposure (both overly positive and overly critical), a sense of having arrived (with the peril of plateauing/regressing), having to figure out how to excel in a game where most other players are equally as talented as you, how to cope with your first extended slump, how to cope with massive demands on your time, how to cope with massive amounts of money involved in the game (players’, owner’s, fan’s, league’s), etc.

          This is ALL especially true when a team is looking to have a huge influx of minor league talent that it expects to make a difference on the field for the next decade. A couple of rookies can fit into an established, veteran clubhouse. The Cubs will be bringing up numerous rookies a year for the next several years. They NEED a great developmental manager.

          • davidalanu

            Yeah, but since there are no stats for the things you mention, they cant possibly exists.

            • Kyle

              There are all kinds of stats that could be used to measure those things, *and* we can see their possible results in ordinary stats.

              • jt

                “Most statistical procedures involve well described formal computations that can be carried out an ANY (emphasis by author) set of data satisfying certain formal STRUCTURAL (emphasis by author). …data consisting of two columns of numbers, x and y, such that to each x there corresponds a certain y, and vice-versa, can always be subjected to calculations known as linear regression, giving rise to as least two distinct straight lines, to correlation analysis and to various tests of significance. Inferences drawn from the data by these methods may be no only incorrect but even thoroughly misleading, despite their mathematically precise nature. This can happen either because the assumptions underlying the statistical procedures are not fulfilled or because the problems connected with the data were of completely different type from those for which the particular statistical methods provide useful information. In Other cases the inferences may be pertinent and valid , so far as they go, but they may fail to call attention to basic insufficiency of the experiment.”
                verbatim from
                “The Statistical Analysis of Experimental Data”. page 15
                by John Mandel (National Bureau of Standards Washington D.C.)
                published by Dover Publications, Inc NY, NY
                1964
                *
                experimental design is really tough stuff. you can not just throw data against the barn siding and see what sticks. You have to be incredibly careful to limit the environment and that subject to the test.
                That you can not see spores with the naked eye does not mean that spontaneous generation is a common occurrence.

          • DocPeterWimsey

            If there was any correlation between these factors and how young players performed, then it would stand out like a sore thumb. It doesn’t. If there were correlations between managers getting young players to perform better (or worse) than projected, then the statheads would have found it quickly.

            Indeed, a trait of many “great” managers is that they preferred veterans to rookies: the myth that veterans were more “consistent” (whatever the heck people think that means) than young players is (or at least was) well ingrained into baseball people.

            • Scotti

              “If there was any correlation between these factors and how young players performed, then it would stand out like a sore thumb.”

              That’s silly. Of course it stands out like a sore thumb to anyone who has every been even remotely around the game.

              “If there were correlations between managers getting young players to perform better (or worse) than projected, then the statheads would have found it quickly.”

              That’s even sillier. “Statheads” are busy finding that things don’t exist–a need for a closer, say–and then discovering that, once they are in charge of a ballclub, TADA! Damn straight the need for a closer exists (the experience of one Theo Epstein). It’s ludicrous–no, well beyond ludicrous–to imagine that there is any way possible for statheads–who have no inside information–to find any correlations between how a player is coping with life in the majors and performance. How the hell is someone living in his parent’s basement supposed to know what Javy Baez or Kris Bryant is going through emotionally once they are brought up? That’s just a weak argument. Even the “professional statheads” who don’t live in their respective parents’ basements aren’t going to know what’s in a player’s head because they aren’t on the field or in the clubhouse. It took our professional statheads over a year to realize they needed to back off a guy who was a .307 hitter before they started messing with him.

              “Indeed, a trait of many “great” managers is that they preferred veterans to rookies: the myth that veterans were more “consistent” (whatever the heck people think that means) than young players is (or at least was) well ingrained into baseball people.”

              Baseball people got that one right. Ain’t no “myth” that a rookie is a crap shoot. Even the #1 prospect in all of baseball can pull a Profar. A veteran who has been around the league a couple seasons is a much safer bet–any stathead will tell you that.

              • MichiganGoat

                Silly is the perfect word for your response. So are you saying that you can see when a manager gives a player the “emotional” care you believe a great manager provides. How do you measure success… I’m guessing players stats?

                • Scotti

                  Look, I’m not the guy that said the above “emotional” issues would be measurable by some guy living in his parent’s basement. That was your weak argument. Defend it.

                  As to what I consider to be success for a great manager, well, that depends on the scenario. But first, “great manager” is your term. MY term was great DEVELOPMENTAL manager. Obviously I wouldn’t hold wins against a manager in the Cub’s situation but the development of key players is paramount (among many other things).

                  Development not simply “player’s stats.” That would be rather simplistic. It would include many of the things Girardi did in Miami. Setting accountable standards, teaching players to do things the “right way (Cubs way).” That simply doesn’t appear in the stats. Neither does communicating well, and individually, with each player. These things (and many, many others) lead to long careers and that is what Girardi has had from his young core players (MIA/NYC).

                  This doesn’t mean that any manager who had players with long carers was a developmental manager. A given manager could simply have been lucky. But knowing what Girardi was about prior too his stints in MIA/NYC, one makes the easy deduction that Girardi didn’t get simply get “lucky” and that it was his hard work and dedication paying off.

                  • Scotti

                    Correction, that was doc’s weak argument.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Yeah always important to know who you are directing your bile before spewing it.

                    • Scotti

                      Someone needs a dictionary…

                  • MichiganGoat

                    I never said anything about people in basements evaluating how a manager is a “developmental” manager. But strawman away and you still haven’t answered the question of how you would evaluate a managers “developmental” skills. Just continuing to redirect and move those goal posts while you get angry that anybody would question your flawless logic. If I agree with you will you be happy because I’m worried about your emotional development.

                    Are you going to take that joke or get angry?

                    • EvenBetterNewsV2.0

                      Is this the 3rd page or the 3rd paragraph of Scotti’s dissertation? Just kidding Scotti. Sure you are a smart dude, but I didn’t type http://www.scotti‘sthoughts.com. That said, I feel better for you after that. I am sure that was quite the load off after a long season. Now Goat, you can ask if Scotti is going to take a joke or get angry.

                    • Scotti

                      “Yeah always important to know who you are directing…”

                      It was just a little odd when you started with, “Silly is the perfect word for your response” as if I was responding to you or vise versa.

                      “I never said anything about people in basements evaluating how a manager is a “developmental” manager.”

                      No, that was the discussion that you joined.

                      “But strawman away and you still haven’t answered the question of how you would evaluate a managers “developmental” skills.”

                      Where’s the strawman? And I did answer. I answered in a comment section format that fits online and with my availability. Again, in crib notes format, just looking at a player’s stats doesn’t do the issue justice. A team needs to look at each of the individual young players that a given manager is working with and determine his development over the duration with the manager. Is the player more mature, more professional, more disciplined, more reliable, more accountable, more team oriented, a better communicator, a player who does “the little things right (Cubs way),” etc. Those players, all things equal, have lasting careers (the opposite things tend to shorten careers).

                      “Just continuing to redirect and move those goal posts while you get angry that anybody would question your flawless logic.”

                      A) I’m not angry in the least. I’m rather befuddled as to where you’d get that. B) What goal posts have I moved? You joined a conversation that was already underway. C) Where have you questioned my “flawless logic?” You asked a question and I answered.

                    • Scotti

                      “Sure you are a smart dude, but I didn’t type http://www.scotti‘sthoughts.com.”

                      No, you decided to read the comment section of in Internet blog. FYI, these are replete with individuals’ thoughts and opinions. If you don’t like, I suggest discovering the scroll button…

                      And, yes, I can say all of that without getting angry or emotional. I had some really good developmental coaches. Go figure.

            • jt

              So Stengel and Anderson don’t get kudos for their use of the BP.
              Weaver doesn’t get credit for not giving away outs etc.
              Alston seeing the value of the SB
              LaRussa and his use of stats
              What has made the 2014 Indians a 91 W team?
              How ’bout the 2014 Bucs and the use of defensive positioning and getting the pitchers to buy into it?
              Jim Fry talked Sandberg into pulling the inside pitch with power and showed him how to do it.
              Francona under Theo set up an environment where new comer Julio Lugo worked long and hard after hours with Dustin Pedroia to establish a the keystone thing. Lugo developed arm problems but Pedroia went on to win Gold Gloves.
              *
              Post steriods, players are reaching The Show at an earlier age. They are cheaper and older players are having more trouble with workouts and travel. There are not that many 27 y/o rookie middle infielders any more. So yeah, it is important to keep younger players from getting into trouble such that Starlin found himself a couple of years back.

              • MichiganGoat

                Use of bullpen, defensive shifts, using the SB, and lineup optimization have always been part of a successful manager. The debate here is about developing young players and what doc is arguing is that there isn’t evidence that supports the impact the a MLB manager has on that. We cannot simply say that if a rookie struggles or succeed it’s because of the MLB manager’s influence. A manager should not be in charge (nor does he have the time) to babysit, be the emotional therapist, or teach them how to be an adult. Maybe the overall organizational support has a direct impact on these issues, but to place it all on a manager is quite silly.

                • Patrick W.

                  Spot on. The most important part is the complete change of topic.

                • jt

                  A.J. Burnett was in open rebellion as to the defensive shifts. It was a managerial decision that had to be implemented by the players. Quite simply, the pitchers had the burden of pitching to the defense. That is the importance of being able to “manage” a vet.
                  I think it was Fred Haney who Spahn told that he would come out of a game when he (Spahn) said he would come out of the game. Stengel, on the other hand, limited the IP by Ford. He wanted Whitey to pitch not the most innings but the most important innings. He wanted to save his young pitchers arm. That is the importance of managing a young asset.
                  In the 50’s the SB king would generally be around 20 steals. Mays and Aparicio extended that but it Alston who took full advantage of what his young players had to offer. It was Alston who molded his young infield in 1973.
                  LaRussa was not just about lineup ops. He was about placing players in a position in which they could succeed. No one else would give The Ek a chance. Oakland being miles away from a viable night life was a place he would have a chance. That is not belly fire stuff. That is actually understanding the potential value of player and handling the situation correctly.
                  Boston has a program in which they bring prospects to Boston winters to work out. They could bring them to Az. or Fl. but that is the chance many have to acclimate to the environment rather than have everything thrust upon them at once. That is managing the situation.
                  Just how does Billy “MoneyBall” do it?

                  • MichiganGoat

                    Oh jt you are saying exactly what I just said. Yes managers have a huge impact on many things which you laid out but the question is how much of an impact a manager has on “rookie” development and I stated that the organization not the manager is responsible for the development and personal (ie emotional, how to be an adult, etc) and you supported that claim with the Red Sox facility.

                    So I’m not sure what you are trying to do here, get the last word?

                    Manager are responsible for maximizing the talents they have by making decisions that will create the most wins. They are not responsible for treating players psyche or teaching them how to play. The organization should being doing that in the minors and coaches should be helping players tweek their approach, but if they need development then they should still be in the minors.

                    • Scotti

                      So, 21-24 year-olds should all be “grown up” by the time they reach the majors? Especially fast track guys like Baez? So managers don’t have responsibility for developing accountability in their clubhouse? They don’t develop a framework within the ballclub where continued development takes place? They don’t develop an environment where a player shows up to work hard/right or he sits? The FO somehow knows what is going on in the clubhouse on a day-to-day basis but the manager doesn’t have the time? Uh, no. That’s simply not what happens in baseball.

                    • Pat

                      If that is the managers job, and some are more skilled at it than others, then I’m sure you can find managers that get young players to outperform their projections at a much higher rate than their peers.

                    • jt

                      ok, the horse is dead…I’ll stop beating it.

                    • jt

                      one last flog.
                      My belief is that one size doesn’t fit all. It is a case by case thing that is driven by need.

              • MichiganGoat

                If the MLB manager is the reason why a player is successful then Mike Scioscia should be considered the greatest coach ever because he’s Mike Trout’s manager and he has had the greatest first two years we’ve seen in a long time.

                • jt

                  there you go again…
                  anecdotal ….
                  nobody has claimed the MLB manager is the reason why “a” player is successful. What is being claimed is that MLB managers have a role (not the only role) in the development of some players. It is also being claimed that managers can put many players in situations in which they can succeed… or not.

                  • Hansman1982

                    The cardinals organization blows the manager theoy out of the water. Despite losing a really good manager, they continue to pump out good rookies.

                    • jt

                      and when Houk replaced Stengel he had the benefit of what Stengel left. Houk’s 2nd term was not quite as good.
                      and when Lasorda replaced Alston he had the veteran club that Alston left. After ’88 look at Tommy’s results
                      and when Antobelli replaced Weaver… well, look at the ages of those playing for the ’83 O’s. Look at the O’s record after a couple of years.
                      Hey, a craftsman and a sow’s ear…. meh
                      a nail banger and mahogany… meh.
                      a craftsman with the right tools, material and time….

                    • MichiganGoat

                      JT you are again missing the point. So by your definition Matheny is a craftsman and the Cardinals are the mahogany? Or is it the organization that is the craftsman and the players and coaches the mahogany?

                  • YourResidentJag

                    Hey, don’t worry about it. He just like to see his own responses on here. ;)

                    • jt

                      doin’ something right if I’m being attacked as the poster rather that contained in the posts.
                      thanks

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Glad you two found each other, enjoy your day.

                    • YourResidentJag

                      Actually, the response was for Goat, who properly obliged by doing what he always does—responding to seek attention.

                  • MichiganGoat

                    Or I was being sarcastic and you didn’t catch it?

                    • jt

                      who besides Shelby Miller is significantly new to the 2013 Cards?
                      This is still LaRussa’s team.
                      My argument is not black and white. Dick Williams could not have brought The ’67 Red Sox to the pennant without Yaz and Lonborg. I get that. But there were a lot pieces brought together that just seemed to work. Luck? Sure! But the odds had to make it plausible. And yeah, he had some good players in Oakland. But he did bring a lot of pieces together in a way in which the odds made it plausible and the players could work together.
                      My argument is not with Sabermetrics. My argument is with the care in which they are sometimes used. James himself states that he is not a baseball person and submits his analysis without attempt to influence policy outside of that analysis.
                      Lot’s of stuff goin’ on. Some of it is being measured by secret methods. Some of it is still beyond scrutiny. Some of it has to be integrated with the trained eye. Never does a single number do justice.

    • Pat

      What negative difference did Quade really make? He had just as much of a shitty roster as Sveum, and actually did a little better with it. Not saying he was a good manager, but he didn’t make the team bad, the front office did.

  • cubzfan23

    No doubt in my mind Dale is gone Monday. Even though the wins and losses are not factored, the regression of two certain players will be a factor. Dale and rowson are gone and bosio may be also. I think that depends on who’s hired. I really do believe this is because they want Giradi.

  • arta

    get Mike and Greg come as pitching coach.

  • Mush

    Brett I really don’t understand how you can defend this guy. He has not made any player better. He is a terrible in game manager. He doesn’t know how to manufacture runs. I say don’t let the door hit you on way out. The only guy I would retain is McKay.

  • YourResidentJag

    Bruce Levine retiring?

    • Mush

      Sounds like it.

      • YourResidentJag

        If not, he certainly seems emotional about something. So, yeah, guess so.

  • Mike

    The Cubs have already decided if they are letting Sveum go or not, they are not still debating it. It just hasn’t gone public yet.

    • Hansman1982

      It could also be that one of the top 2 in the front office wants him gone while thronged wants him to stay. Since they may not be able to agree, they may have set a meeting on Monday to discuss things with Dale and then with each other.

  • cubbiehawkeye

    I get that Bosio and Sveum have that brewer connection but I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want Bosio back. I feel like he has turned himself into one of the best pitching coaches in the majors. I like McKay and I hope he returns in 2014 but give me Bosio before anyone else.

    • YourResidentJag

      Agreed.

  • ssckelley

    At this point I don’t know how the FO bring Sveum back. If they were going to bring him back you would think they would have given him a vote of confidence instead of allowing all this speculation. At this point I would be shocked if the announcement was anything but Sveum being fired.

    • Professor Snarks

      Yep. If they let Dale keep his job at this point, the FO will look really stupid. They did not play this well.

      • davidalanu

        What else were they supposed to do? Managers, especially those who are short on contract years left, are often evaluated right after the season. Heck, Mike Scocia doesn’t know for sure that he’ll be back next year (at least last I read), and he’s the longest tenured manager in the game.

        Plus, if they are bringing Sveum back and said as much, then they’d immediately be asked about the coaches. Same thing, maybe they’re going to make a change somewhere, but finish the season out first.

  • 5412

    Hi,

    The real issue here is identical to high priced free agents. Is Sveum a guy we can win with in 2015 and beyond? He has been a good caretaker. Contrast that with Girardi in Miami. Didn’t he have them over achieve?

    If they feel Sveum is gone in a year or so anyway, then he is gone now.

    • ClevelandCubsFan

      Might be something to that.

      • Eternal pessemist

        Some say he just had a bunch if all-star or future all-star players. That might be true, or he might be the one that turned them into all-star players with the right organizational coaching.

        In any event, his Florida team was thought to overachieve. He may be the one who developed the approach that these players have taken with them ever since.

  • Frank

    Hey, Mike Quade is still available.

  • Fastball

    I will be early for mass tomorrow morning praying this coaching staff gets fired, some brilliant trades are made, some unexpected promotions are made and that we sign Abreu out of Cuba. I no longer have a favorite position player so anybody could be traded. The big 2 wont be, but if I got good offers I would trade them. I can see a rip and replace going down. I hate Sveum and if he goes they all go. New manager will hire his own crew.

  • Die hard

    Don’t give me this malarkey Sveum was a place holder — this team finishes.500 and he gets 3 yr contract on Monday

  • Leroy Kleimola

    As long as it’s not Ausmus. I just don’t trust Ausmus. I would take Gardenhire or Giradi though.

  • Leroy Kleimola

    I also think Epstein kinda wasn’t aware that the remarks he made about Sveum put the nails in the coffin. He was kind of perturbed about all the media questions over Sveum. It caught him off guard i think.

  • Pingback: dCubs Notes: Castro, Renovation Issues, Offseason Plans and your aily Sveum | Cubs Den

  • ClevelandCubsFan

    Top 10 complaints on Bleacher Nation after Joe Girardi becomes manager:

    10. Does this guy know the first thing about lineup construction?
    9. Why the hell does he keep putting Strop back out there night after night?
    8. I understand why he puts Schierholtz in right and Vitters in left, but why does he keep sitting Lake over Choo???!!
    7. Darwin Barney is at best a .270 hitter. Girardi is a fool for not realizing we’d could have so much more production with Junior Lake at second.
    6. OK, I know he once was a stud, but seriously? You’re going to start Olt at third over Junior Lake??
    5. Has this guy ever even heard of lefty, righty matchups?
    4. I don’t care what the “advanced metrics” say. The eye test tells me Giardi is washed up and has no idea what he’s doing.
    3. Go figure this front office found away to screw with the only decent manager we’ve had in 25 years.
    2. OMG, did he really send Rizzo there? Fire him now.
    1. At least when we had Sveum, we knew we weren’t going anywhere.

    • Eternal Pessimist

      Nice.

  • http://mccarronlegal.com jmc

    uh, Boyz n Girlz until thsy spend money on a established major league players they will lose. enjoy your choco malts

  • http://vdcinc.biz 70’scub

    Who wants to be “Miami” North? Firing the field manager after systematically trading off MLB league pitching assets is a bad reflection on the entire organization. One could wonder who else are these people are willing to use make their goals. The manager should get at the bare minimum one year with an organization that is trying to win. I think Epstein, Hoyer will keep Dale he has done exactly as asked and it is the right thing to do.

  • TSB

    Quade: little managerial experience, played the veterans no matter what, bonehead mistakes
    Sveum: little managerial experience, played the veterans no matter what, bonehead mistakes
    Ausmus: little managerial experience, etc.
    Time for a veteran manager? Isn’t on the job training over?

  • John

    Anyone else wondering if they’ll go barking up the Maddux (not Greg) tree again? Everyone is talking Girardi and Ausmus, but it seems like Mike was a serious candidate until he pulled himself out of the running. Maybe he is more ready to move now than he was a couple years ago…

    • Rich H

      If Texas makes a change that would be MM’s best shot. But you never know if Wasington is still the man in Ranger country then Maddox may want a challenge.

  • CubsFaninMS

    Joe’s Predictions:

    Rowson/Deer = gone or demoted
    Sveum most likely gone
    Bosio and McKay remain

  • http://google FLACKO

    Theo is another Jim Henry look at the deal with Ian Stewart paying him $2 million and the rest of the bad deals he made time for him to go

    • willis

      Meh, the big difference is that Hendry had the slack to do whatever the hell he wanted. Theo is having to make risky handcuffed moves, buying low on high risk players. It’s the only game he can play with no money. So, in that case of course he’s going to lose on some. Stewart, Baker, Lim and perhaps Fuji are bad. But he also did the same with Feldman, Schierholtz, Navarro, Hairston (who sucked but got the org Pineyro). With how restricted he is, hitting 50% on the type of signings he can make I probably about par.

      • http://www.facebook.com/anotherspacesong Bret Epic

        If Theo was Hendry, we would be spending three times as much on free agents. Instead, Theo and Jed are looking to buy low and sell high on almost every signing.

        • Gutshot5820

          Hendry was a lot better than anyone on here is giving him credit for. He made a few questionable signings such as Bradley, Fukudome and Soriano. Bradley was a but and Fukudome was only half bad, Without Soriano we never make the playoffs.

          He traded for Derrick Lee and Aramis who are both BETTER than anyone on our roster and possibly better than anyone coming up from the farm. We had Soriano, Sosa, Aramis, Derrick Lee, Derosa, Mosies Alou, Nomar, Todd Walker, (all of them better than any of the expected players coming through our system) etc all playing for the Cubs during his regime. If Prior and Wood never got hurt, we would have been in the playoff/World Series hunt almost every year, Especially now with the 2 Wild Card teams, we would have been contenders for a decade. Would the Red Sox win a World Series without Beckett? Arizona without Randy Johnson?

          Compare that with the Ricketts regime, 5 years now with every year the payroll going down, even with a few ticket price raises, new signs, additional 25M from MLB,revenue sources that Hendry never had. Where did all the money go? We went from a large market team to a mid market team in a span of five years during the Ricketts regime Five years of total suckitude while Ricketts reap the profits under the guise that building the farm is the only way to a true winner. Gimme back the Hendry days. I lost five years of my life as a Cubs fan so the frugal Ricketts can make a billion dollars and build the club like a small market team.

          If Prior and Wood were healthy, we would have been a powerhouse. Unfortunately, Hendry lacked the ability and foresight to draft and develop so when Prior and Wood got hurt there was not enough talent to replace them.

          • http://It'searly Mike F

            I don’t agree on Ricketts it is popular and gross stereo type, but the rest is very true. Especially in regard to Prior and Wood, you are on it. Both, all non-sense aside, were can’t miss and rare prospects. They were an overwhelming and dominating duo of players. Here we are talking about the rare type of HOF players that come along every so often. Wood threw too much as an 18 year old in Texas and Prior probably was misused as well as enhancement issues. but in terms of arms and dominance, those were two incredibly rare players.

          • Patrick W.

            I’m not comfortable with the notion that Todd Walker was a better player than Javy Baez or Kris Bryant or Jorge Soler will be.

            • Rizzovoir Dog

              Yeah, bring back the glory of those Hendry days. I want to build on that 9 game playoff losing streak.

              • Professor Snarks

                You’d rather have 100 loss seasons?

                Getting to the playoffs is what matters. Once you get there, it’s a crapshoot.

  • http://It'searly Mike F

    If Sveum goes the whole staff goes with him. Bosio and McKay are loyal to Sveum.

    • Assman22

      McKay is not loyal to Sveum…

  • Aaron

    Watching the Cubs getting beat again by the Cardinals, it is clear that this year’s team is terrible as a whole. While there are some nice pieces here and there, it was not put together very well by ownership and the front office. It has been patchwork at best.

    I don’t see how next year is going to be much different than this season, no matter who is manager. I almost feel sorry for whoever manages and coaches next year’s team. As a fan, it has been disappointing to say the least.

    I sure hope the ownership and front office know what they are doing and that their 5 year plan will produce the results we all want. I believe the challenge may have been more than they thought it would be. This off-season will be an important one for sure.

Bleacher Nation Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. Bleacher Nation is a private media site, and it is not affiliated in any way with Major League Baseball or the Chicago Cubs. Neither MLB nor the Chicago Cubs have endorsed, supported, directed, or participated in the creation of the content at this site, or in the creation of the site itself. It's just a media site that happens to cover the Chicago Cubs.

Bleacher Nation is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

Google+