The Morning Meeting and Other Managerial and Coaching Bullets

dale sveum cubsDale Sveum could be learning his fate right now in a meeting with President of Baseball Operations Theo Epstein. While I leave open the possibility that Sveum will return for 2014, the final year of his contract with the Cubs (and, indeed, I’d still be fine with that), I’ll concede that this has all played out a little strangely if the guy is going to return. I credit Epstein for his honesty with the media in refusing to commit to (or not to) Sveum until their annual evaluation process was complete. That wraps up this morning, and we should learn what’s going to happen later today.

In the meantime …

  • Sveum admitted yesterday to being nervous about today’s meeting, even as he apparently chuckled. I’d love to know whether Sveum already had a sense of what was going to happen – either way – or if he’s truly as in the dark as everyone else. Whether he’s the manager of the Cubs or the manager of a restaurant, he’s still a guy who might be losing his job today. If he does, he’ll find another (even if not as a manager), though I’m sure it still sucks. With so few managerial jobs available, however, you’ve got to be really, really good to keep yours. We’ll see today if Sveum met that standard.
  • Sveum’s players are, as you’d expect, rallying to offer support and hope that Sveum is kept on board.
  • I wrote about some of Joe Girardi’s comments yesterday about his impending decision, and others who were in attendance for his comments have concluded that Girardi was strongly hinting that he’s choosing between returning to the Yankees or not managing at all next year. The quotes don’t make that clear, but if that’s the sense that folks were getting, then it’s worth noting. Joel Sherman also got that sense from Girardi’s comments, though he notes that the Cubs could look to make Girardi their big splash signing this year as the rebuild continues and attendance fades.
  • David Lennon of Newsday writes that Joe Girardi would be crazy to leave the Yankees now, and – apparently on that basis, alone – Lennon concludes that Girardi will not leave.
  • If Girardi does return to the Yankees, however, Buster Olney reports that it’s going to take a “significant” raise over the $3 million he was making. Something to keep in mind when discussing Girardi: he’d be very expensive. Of course, manager “expensive” is relative.
  • On Girardi, the primary non-speculative connection between Girardi and the Cubs has come from Dan Bernstein. And even that, you’ll remember, was only that there is mutual interest in talking. Patrick Mooney has also said that Girardi/Cubs isn’t just about dot-connecting (implying there’s something there). Beyond that, though, there isn’t much explicitly going on. I suppose I’m preaching caution to those of you who are all “Girardi or bust.” Even if that’s the right way to be – seems like it’s way too early to think that way, but to each his own – it might not work out, because there might not be much there.
  • Jon Heyman wonders, as Peter Gammons did, whether Brad Ausmus might be a good fit for the Cubs, given a variety of connections to the front office. We’ve heard from other sources, however, that Ausmus is not a top candidate right now (which is an odd thing to even say, given that – as of this moment – Dale Sveum still has the job).
  • In addition to Sveum’s fate, we may also hear about a variety of coaching decisions today. Not all of the coaches are under contract for next year, so some may simply be informed that they will not be brought back. Others may become the subject of negotiations, while others still may simply be retained as already under contract. Pitching coach Chris Bosio and outfield/first base coach Dave McKay are good bets to be retained.

Brett Taylor is the editor and lead writer at Bleacher Nation, and can also be found as Bleacher Nation on Twitter and on Facebook.

123 responses to “The Morning Meeting and Other Managerial and Coaching Bullets”

  1. Jamie

    How about bringing back Whitey Lockman or Herman Franks?

    1. RoughRider

      Lockman & Franks both passed away in 2009. So yes, they might be able to supply what the Cubs need most. Devine intervention.

      1. Good Captain

        Truly some inspired choices.

    2. chris bradley

      they arent alive anymore

  2. RIch

    My opinion is I hope he stays. If we gave Dale the Cardinals or Pirates, is he really going to manage that poorly and causing those teams not to make the playoffs?

    I dont know of course, but I think he has to manage a bit differently under the players he was given.

    I guess if Girardi is the upgrade, then you make that move. But, Dusty was here. Lou was here. Countless others have been replaced. Did Dale really manage that poorly that he should be dismissed at this time ?

  3. ab

    What I don’t understand on Ausmus speculation is whether Theo/Jed have dropped their requirements for management experience at the pro level? Seems like that was conveniently mentioned to discount Sandberg, so it would be a bit of a double standard to drop that now

  4. cubfanincardinalland

    Dave McKay should be in a coaches hall of fame, for the improvement he got out of Soriano in left field. Amazing.

    1. CubFan Paul

      I’ll nominate him for the HOF if he can do the same for Lake

  5. CubFan Paul

    Which coach is in charge of baserunning? Bell?

  6. Chad

    All this Girardi talk just sounds like smoke to me, or a way to get more $ out of the Yanks. If he were to take a year off then the cubs should certainly retain Sveum and evaluate after next year in which his contract would be non-existent. However, you can’t hold out hope that in 1 year you can get Girardi. He may still not want to come back or come to the Cubs so then you wasted a year. Just some thoughts as I type this morning.

  7. The Dude Abides

    Not sure how this turns out but one thing he has in his corner is Rickett$ not eating the salary for 2014, my bet if he is out as manager he is offered something else in another capacity.

  8. Chef Brian

    I refuse to commit to anything, until I have more info. Daddy needs the info….

  9. AA Correspondent

    How effective is a lame duck manager? I don’t know how this ends positively. If he is retained for 2014, I think he is toast after next season anyway unless the Cubs finsh above .500 (which after all; was part fo the 3 year plan towards being competitive again). It would suck for Dale to show improvement each year (record wise) then get the axe just as the Cubs were going to be relevant (~2015). I think he has done a pretty good job considering the talent level that he has been given.

    From where I sit; Dale either is or is not who you want to manage the club. If he is not…..then let him go today and get who you want. If he is……then say it with authority and be done with it.

    Organizationally, the plan is working (in my opinion). The minor league shelves have been re-stocked. There are stud prospects that are legitimately on schedule. The “Cubs Way” has permeated down into the minor leagues, and we are ridding ourselves of albatros contracts.

    I like where the Cubs are headed.

    1. Voice of Reason

      How effective is a lame duck manager?

      Answer: On a team that is playing for the future as the Cubs will be next year, being a lame duck manager is irrelevant! The rookies and youngsters must play hard and give it all they have so they can earn a spot and make millions and become overpriced, egotistical bums like Aramis Ramirez, ARod, etc.

      If Sveum was coaching a team that is expected to win and is full of high priced players then it’s a different story if you’re a lame duck manager!

  10. Jono

    I’d think Girardi would be crazy not to seek the holy grail of sports. Yankees, sure, it’s a nice job. But how do you compare that to being the manager of the Cubs team that finally wins it all?

    1. On The Farm

      Haven’t they been saying that for years though?

      1. Jono

        not sure what your point is. Epstein has only been there for 2 years. His rebuilding plan seems to have improved the health of the organization pretty well and people in the industry seem to think the club is on the rise.

        1. On The Farm

          You don’t know what my point is? They have been saying who wouldn’t want to be the Cubs manager when they win the title forever. I understand that it is a little different since Girardi has Chicago ties, but Dusty had a pretty good team in 2003, Lou had a really good team in 2008. So its not like we haven’t had good teams. Girardi picking the Cubs for the ‘Holy Grail’ aspect has to be lower on the list of reasons to take the job. Especially if you already have a gig with the Yankees.

          Don’t get me wrong, I love the direction of the FO, and I can’t say for certain, but part of me believes Girardi would be a great upgrade for this team going forward. However, the FO has been back and forth to the media whether they will spend money this offseason (I realize they will be more straightforward with people who they are going to hire than they will be with the media). The fact is Girardi could be leaving a franchise that is known for winning, and even though they are cutting back on spending, you know the Yankees will still spend. Contrast that with going to a team who’s renovation is in flux, because of that could delay income that was supposed to be applied to future FA signings, Ownership making debt service payments, on a team that has blown it twice (2003 and 2008). I just thing the holy grail aspect isn’t as important as it is to us Cubs fans. Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t think I am.

          1. Jono

            But the reasons you state are the reasons why it makes the job so great. Their losing history is what would make the eventual Cubs world series championship team so desirable. The yankees already have 27 rings. Girardi already has one of those. To win one with the Cubs would be so much better than winning another with the yankees

          2. Jono

            “They have been saying who wouldn’t want to be the Cubs manager when they win the title forever. I understand that it is a little different since Girardi has Chicago ties, but Dusty had a pretty good team in 2003, Lou had a really good team in 2008. So its not like we haven’t had good teams.”

            But that’s why I would choose the Cubs over the Yankees if I were Girardi. Their losing history is the entire point

            “Girardi picking the Cubs for the ‘Holy Grail’ aspect has to be lower on the list of reasons to take the job.”

            I diagree 100%. He already won there. With the yankees, he’s just another guy. With the cubs, if he wins it, he’d be a legend here forever

            1. On The Farm

              With the Yankees he is doing great, ownership is content with him. If Girardi comes in and doesn’t win a ring right away, it won’t be long before people are calling for his head. I still think you are over blowing how important the Cubs drought is to others, to some it could be a turn off because if they don’t win they are just another person on a list of failures. Being on the team that is the most internationally recognized team in baseball is a pretty good deal. I mean its not like Mark Zuckerburg built the powerhouse Facebook and then decided he is going to bring MySpace back to glory. If you are already in a good position, some people are content.

              1. Jono

                “how important the Cubs drought is to others”

                Not others. To chicago. If he were the Cubs manager, he’d be part of the Cubs organization and therefore not “others”. Plus he has been a part of the organization in the past, so he gets it. He knows how great it would be.

                And maybe he does believe that it’s an impossible job that no one can succeed at. Maybe he doesn’t want to join the list of failures. Those are possibilities.

                1. On The Farm

                  ” If he were the Cubs manager, he’d be part of the Cubs organization and therefore not “others”. ”

                  My point about others was people outside the organization. This is what Girardi is. Right now he is a Yankee, so he is an ‘other’. He was a Cub in 2002, its been a long time since he was considered a Cub. The drought to him is something different.

                  1. Jono

                    I’m not following. Of course he’s not a part of the cubs organization now. I’m just not following your point. Yes, a Cubs world series would mean much more (or only mean anything) to the cubs world. And as the potential cubs manager, he’d be a part of that. The point about him being a cub in the past is that he understands what that means. He didn’t forget about that b/c it was a long time

                    1. On The Farm

                      No, but my point is Joe is an “other” in the sense that to us ending the drought means everything. To Joe, it may look like a high reward, but potentially high risk. He already will have a sub-par team for 2014. He could really ruin his career of getting another big market job (only because there are so many of them) to take on a task no one has accomplished in 100+ years.

                    2. Jono

                      I don’t think you understand the angle I’m taking. I’m not looking at it from a fan’s perspective, I’m looking at it from his perspective

                    3. On The Farm

                      But you are only looking at the positives of taking the job from his perspective. You aren’t factoring in he already has a top 3 job in baseball, if not the top one. (Dodgers, Yanks, Cubs). So he is giving up a top 3 job, for another, when he has so much more at his current job, and has to start all over at his new one.

                    4. Jono

                      I’m not only looking at the positives. I’ve talked about the negatives.

                      I am factoring the fact that he already has a top 3 job in baseball. I already talked about that, too

                    5. On The Farm

                      I have seen you call the Yankees a “nice job” when it is already one of the best. And I really haven’t seen your negatives on taking the job. Yeah it would be a really cool story, but looking at Ownership and renovation problems, how strong the Reds, Pirates, and Cards look. It is a very tall task. So why leave a top three job, for another that is a lot harder to please the fan base. You are brushing off the negatives (like the renovations) saying you think it will get done, but at this point we really don’t know until when. We don’t know how that affects ownership’s thought process with FA which is a huge risk for a manager to take when he already has a nice cozy job.

                  2. Jono

                    I’m not saying/writing that he feels loyalty to the Cubs, if that’s what you mean

              2. Scotti

                “With the Yankees he is doing great, ownership is content with him.”

                That sums it up, right there. With the Yankees, he is doing great and they are content with him. I think you are 100% correct. They are merely “content” with him despite the WS, three divisional wins, four years in five of playoffs and keeping the team competitive this season despite the aging players and the ARod circus.

                If he wins a WS with the Cubs, he will have more than “content” ownership. After he retires, he will be manager emeritus. He will open up a steakhouse chain and Girardi’s will put Ditka’s out of business.

                Re. the Yankees… He did a great job keeping them in contention this year but they are losing their closer (Mariano Rivera) and one of their best starters (Andy Pettite) to retirement. They very well may lose their best player (Robinson Cano) to free agency. The team is set on getting below the tax threshold for one season (to reset it and forget it) and that would be tough to do it while keeping Cano. ARod, a shell of his former self, but still one of their better performers, may or may not play. They are injured and aging everywhere. Things are not looking up for the Yankees.

                The content Yankees will be looking for a scapegoat soon. Time for Joltin’ Joe to pack up. Maybe he goes back to YES and maybe he says Yes to the Cubs. Should be a fun couple of weeks. I suggest we all take turns covering the local Starbucks.

            2. On The Farm

              And keep in mind I am not saying its not a reason. I just think as Cub fans we can tend to think it is one of the most important reasons. But with the renovation issues, and debt service payments, and it seems to be a widely accepted thought that they won’t spend as much as they used to. That can be a turn off. The drought thing is a factor, but its more of complimentary thing in my opinion.

              (note: I don’t like to try and speak for all Cubs fans as I just did, but I do tend to think Cubs fans tend to over blow the drought)

              1. Jono

                I think the spending restriction thing won’t last forever. And girardi will probably get a long leash. I imagen them giving girardi more time than it will take to get those revenues

                1. On The Farm

                  What makes you think he will get a long leash? First off it could be three years before they get it all done. How many years will Girardi’s contract be? Probably three years? roughly the same amount of time Theo has on his contract? If he doesn’t get it done in three years fans will get restless no matter what. When was the last time we were relevant and had a good team? Some people (on this site) are already conceding next season. So all Cubs fans will give him a past next season, but we are so restless for a title and have been so teased by Theo, Girardi would have to be looking for a title 2015. The expectations are already high for the future with Theo, if we add Girardi, fans expectations are going to increase even more.

                  1. Jono

                    I think he’d get a long leash b/c he’s proven that he’s a good manager. I just don’t see the front office getting rid of him b/c of a subpar year or two

      2. Jono

        And that’s kind of the entire point. Their long term championship drought is what would make it so awesome when they finally do win it.

    2. X The Cubs Fan

      I don’t think anything in sports can compare to that.

    3. Hee Seop Chode

      This is coolaid thinking. Nationally and moreso internationally, the Yankees are the name brand.

      1. Jono

        they’re the name brand, but a Cubs world series team will become such a bigger legend than any Yankees teams. they’d be bigger and more loved than the ’85 bears. Plus, the Cubs are one of the biggest name brand baseball teams, anyways. It’s not like they’re the Astros. The mind set that coaching for the Yankees must be the best gig just b/c they’re the yankees is coolaid thinking.

        1. Kyle

          Some people will care about that. I suspect most won’t.

          1. Jono

            care about what, name brand? being a legend?

            1. Kyle

              The legend thing.

              If you aren’t from Chicago or born a Cubs fan, you *probably* don’t care. A few will, but most won’t.

              You get to be a legend winning the World Series just about anywhere.

              1. Jono

                Maybe Girardi doesn’t care. That’s a decent argument.

                But the manager that eventually wins it with the Cubs will be way more of a legend in chicago than any manager who has and ever will win it with the yankees. Way more. Not even close. Do you really think yankees fan love him from his WS title as much as Cubs fans would if he won it here? Of course not

                1. On The Farm

                  I guess this is where I stand. I just don’t think marquee managers (who have already made a name for themselves) care about being a Cubs legend.

                  1. Jono

                    I do believe some people would care about being an enormous sports legend in one of the biggest cities in the country. Maybe giardi’s one of those people, maybe not. But certainly there are some people who would care about things like that

                2. Kyle

                  That would be equally true winning the World Series in Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Washington.

                  1. Jono

                    Winning a Cubs world series would be equal to a pirates or indians world series? I disagree 100%. The eventual Cubs world series winning manager would be such a bigger legend than the guy for those other teams (and of course not just for chicago, for those other cities, too)

                    1. Voice of Reason

                      That’s because your a Cub fan!

                    2. Jono

                      no, it’s not

                  2. mjhurdle

                    For the city i would agree. a winning manager in Pittsburgh or Cleveland would also be revered.
                    But i think nationally, the manager/team that finally ends the Cubs World Series drought will receive much more recognition for a much longer time than someone that wins somewhere else. Mostly because the Cubs drought has received so much more media attention than any other city.

                  3. Kyle

                    He’s right. The Cubs fan in you is clouding your perspective on this.

                    1. Jono

                      I disagree. A cubs world series championship would be bigger than a pirates championship or indians championship. I don’t believe that b/c I’m a cubs fan. I believe that bc of two things. The huge national fan base of the cubs and the long drought. The Cubs drought is known by everyone, it’s part of pop culter.

                    2. Jono


                    3. Kyle

                      It’d be a bigger news story for about two days, and then no one outside of Chicago would care.

                    4. mjhurdle

                      Kyle, I understand what you are saying.
                      But if a fan trying to catch a foul ball can receive media attention and documentaries years after the event, I don’t see how you can make a legitimate argument that the Cubs winning the World Series would be forgotten outside of Chicago in a couple days.
                      People still talk about the Red Sox “reversing the curse”, and i think the Cubs might even garner more attention than that.

                    5. Jono

                      maybe, maybe not. Even if that’s true, he’d be such a legend in chicago that the national scene wouldn’t even matter. But it’s not true, anyway, because of the huge national cubs fan base

                3. EvenBetterNewsV2.0

                  Pump the brakes. I am a huge Cubs fan, but bigger legend than anyone who has been with the Yankees? Lol. You serious? Miller Huggins?!?! Joe McCarthy?!?! Casey Stengel?!?! Joe Torre?!?! I am honestly speechless. Either you have knowledge of 0 history of MLB or your history goes back like 10 years. These are the legends of our game. I would say 2 of those guys are probably on a shortlist of greatest managers of all time. Good luck with your argument Jono.

                  1. Jono

                    yes. yes. And yes.

                    1. EvenBetterNewsV2.0

                      Wow. I hope you are 20 years old. The coach for the Cubs that wins it will be put on a pedestal no doubt. But, look at Francona. He isn’t even viewed as the man in MLB after doing it for the Red Sox. Dude, the guys I discussed did it year after year. They managed some of the greatest teams of all time. We will just agree to disagree on this.

                    2. Jono

                      none of those guys broke the longest championship drought in America. look at how chicago made the 85 bears into legends. They’ll do the same with the cubs team that wins it

                    3. Voice of Reason

                      Yes, the ’85 Bears are LEGENDS IN CHICAGO!! Not nationally, but in Chicago. The biggest reason for that is the Bears haven’t won a freaking Super Bowl since then!! lmao

                      The White Sox won the World Series a couple of years ago and they hadn’t won one in yeeeaaarrrs! Ask the average Joe in Pittsburgh or San Diego who the manager of the White Sox was the year they won it.

                    4. mjhurdle

                      The 85 Bears are legends across America. I grew up moving between California, Illinois, Nebraska, and North Carolina. Every place i lived everyone knew the 85 Bears, and Ditka, and Da Bears.
                      You can argue whether they were legends because of the personalities, the Super Bowl win, or a combination of associated things; but to say that they are not legends outside of Chicago is a bit far-fetched.

                    5. Jono

                      My point has always focused around chicago, not premiums he nation. National legend would be nice, but that’s beyond my point

                    6. Jono

                      My point has always focused around chicago, not the nation. National legend would be nice, but that’s beyond my point

                  2. DocShock8

                    Just for purposes of this discussion overall managerial records for those mentioned above plus a couple of others.

                    Joe Torre
                    4329 games 2326-1997 .538%

                    Casey Stengel
                    3766 games 1905-1842 .508

                    Joe McCarthy
                    3487 games 2125-1333 .615%

                    Miller Huggins
                    2570 games 1413-1134 .555%

                    Joe Girardi
                    1134 games 642-492 .566%

                    Jim Leyland
                    3499 games 1769-1728 .506%

                    Tony LaRussa
                    5097 games 2728-2365 .536%

                    Tommy Lasorda
                    3040 games 1599-1439 .526%

                    1. Jono

                      When ranking the droughts ended, the potential future cubs manager would be first on that list

          2. Jono

            If I got to choose between being the manager of the biggest name brand team (vs only the second or third name brand team) and possibly becoming one of the biggest sports legends in chicago, it’s no contest

            1. Voice of Reason

              That’s because you’re a Cub fan!

              Any other manager just wants to make as much money as possible and have ownership that spends money on free agents so they can win.

              It has nothing to do with being the first manager to win a World Series as Cub manager in over 100 years.

              If I’m Joe Girardi I’m staying put. That Yankee job isn’t for everyone because they are constantly under a microscope. But, Girardi is equal to the task! He has a big job ahead to help retool the Yanks and get them in position to win more World Series!

            2. Napercal

              The all -time two most popular figures in Chicago sports history: 1. The next Cubs manager; and 2. the next Bears’ quarterback. Never been truer than today.

        2. mjhurdle

          I think the Cubs team that wins the World Series will go down in a special part of history, not just in Chicago but nationwide.
          The manager of the Cubs World Series team will be revered and remembered by fans everywhere.
          However, im not sure that it plays much into the decision making for a manager to come here, because i think most managers realize that winning the World Series is way more dependent on things outside their control.
          I don’t think anyone looks at it like “i am going to go to the Cubs and make them win the World Series”. I think it is more of a hoping you are the guy in the job when the roster and other things line up perfectly for a WS run.

          1. Jono

            I agree 100%. the key factor is that he’s not going for his first ring. He already has one, so maybe he’d be more willing to take the chance

    4. Voice of Reason

      Jono typed: “I’d think Girardi would be crazy not to seek the holy grail of sports. Yankees, sure, it’s a nice job. But how do you compare that to being the manager of the Cubs team that finally wins it all?”

      When comparing the Yankees and the Cubs you are going to say that the Cubs is the Holy Grail of jobs? It’s obviously the other way around!

      Please put down the Cubbie Kool Aid!

      Let me remind you that the Cubs are the equivalent of the NBA’s L.A. Clippers. Notoriously known to lose and choke. When you think of the Clippers you think of a bad team that is full of bad players, etc. Ok, the Clippers are TRYING to turn it around, just like the Cubs. BUT, both teams continue to disappoint, choke and play bad!

      And, I’m a lifelong Cub fan. You just have to be honest! I believe the Cubs are headed in the right direction. We all just have to be patient. We’ll lose another 85-90 plus games again next year, but there is light at the end of the tunnel!

    5. Dave

      How many managers thought they would be the one and it never happened

      Regardless of the improvements made in the minor leagues this team is a long way from thinking WS.

      1. On The Farm

        Exactly, there is a lot that goes into choosing a job, for instance for Girardi it could be: Salary 40%, Major league roster 20%, Minor league depth 20%, Ownership 15%, legacy 5%. Just saying something are more important then your legacy, like the ability to provide for your family, job security, etc.

        1. Jono

          of course all those things are factors. I’m just saying what I think might be his deal breaking factor. I can’t imagen the yankees offering him double the money than the cubs. I’m sure his job security will be fine with the cubs, especially since he wouldn’t be expected to win for the first couple years.

          1. On The Farm

            Really? See this is where it is different for me because I have put up with a lousy teams for the last few years now and I am sick of it. But, like all good Cub fans I take it in the chin and keep on going. But, if Theo can’t put a contender on the field by 2015, we are going to have a problem. I am a huge Theo fan. Been following since he won it in Boston and had the dream he would give it up to do the same for us. I started reading his biographies and when he joined the Cubs it was a dream come true for me. The next manager will be given a free pass in 2014, but if you can honestly say that you would give the manager a pass in 2015 you are nuts. This team needs to get back to relevancy, and if three years of cellar dwelling isn’t enough, then I guess Theo wasn’t the right man for the job. If Girardi takes this job the pressure is on Opening Day 2015.

            1. Jono

              I don’t believe we’ll have a contender in 2015. That could depend on the definition of contender, though. But I don’t believe they win 90 games in or before 2015

              1. On The Farm

                By 2015 Baez, Bryant, and Soler should be MLB ready at some point as well as our top SP prospects. Between them (as trade pieces or as roster members) coupled with FA signings, we should have a team that can make the playoffs. I am assuming that 2014 will be a step forward year (so attendance should go up). If attendance is going up, so should revenue so their should be no FA excuses (plus they should have a new TV deal). If we aren’t playing into October in 2015, I will be severely disappointed. Three years is plenty of time for a rebuild for a team like Chicago.

                1. Kyle

                  Soler is iffy on being ready by 2015, Edwards probably won’t be. If we’re counting on prospects for our starting pitching, it’s going to look pretty iffy.

                  We’ll have a shot in 2015, hopefully, but it’ll hardly be a guarantee. There’s plenty of other young, talented teams in the division. And we’ll still probably be worse than the Cardinals.

                  1. On The Farm

                    I wasn’t thinking of them being SP options as much as I was thinking they would be a midseason bullpen arm for Edwards and Johnson. I am not saying they are ready by opening day, more as boost to the team by midseason. The Core + FA signings + minor league impact, should equal some sort of results. There are OF signings to be had: Domit, Willingham, Span, Rasmus. Their are SP : Peavy, Scherzer, Masterson, Homer Bailey. The players could be there and if money isn’t spent, I can only imagine fans will get very short leashed with anyone, including our golden boy.

                2. Jono

                  I don’t expect prospects to be really productive their first year up. Some are, for sure. Maybe they hit the ground running, but its not something I expect. And the free agent thing will help the team, but probably not enough for them to be contenders if the young core doesn’t hit the ground running. Winning in the 80s? Definitely. But I dont consider that contending. Again, defining a contender is subjective, anywah

                  1. On The Farm

                    I don’t expect prospects to be productive, but I expect the super ones to hold their own. Baez is a top ten, by the next season Bryant could be one too. I am not expecting Alcantara to be the next Jimmy Rollins starting with his first MLB at bat. But guys like Baez and Bryant should be more than just ‘hit the ground runners’ in my eyes. Wil Myers, Buster Posey, Matt Wieters, all of these guys were top of the top prospects, and contributed very well.

                    1. Jono

                      You’re not expecting the prospects to be productive in 2015the but you expect the team to contend? I don’t think they contend until they’re productive

                    2. On The Farm

                      No I am not expecting the prospects (guys like Alcantara, Vogelbach, Candelario) those guy are not the ones I expect to be productive day one. But the ones who are ‘super’ prospects (or in other words best in baseball) I do expect them to be productive out of the gate. I poorly phrased my argument, but the meat of it is, I realize not all prospects produce right away, but Baez and Bryant aren’t your every day prospects, they are held to a higher standard.

                    3. Jono

                      those are the guys are was referring to. Baez, bryant. I don’t expect to get contending-like production out of them their first year up, which is why I don’t think they win 90 in 2015. Hopefully im wrong. Hopefully they, and a few free agents, kill it and they win the wor…sorry, I can’t finish that sentence. I got too excited. Trying to curb my enthusiasm

                    4. On The Farm

                      I guess I think that they can play 2 WAR ball, which is pretty good for a 3B, and decent for a 2B. Assuming the new manager can help our core developing further, Castro would be a 4 year vet, Rizzo with 2.5 years, Wellington with 2.5 years, I would think these guys have been up long enough to be the guys you lean on and the prospects need to be right around league average. A better bullpen and this team already could have been a 70+ win team. We really shouldn’t be that far from 80 wins.

                    5. On The Farm

                      I will say this though, I feel like I have been talking so much about this that I feel like I am not making sense anymore and am losing site of the original argument. I enjoyed our discussion, and respect your opinion on why you think Girardi would choose this job. After the pathetic play of the Bears and my fantasy football team this weekend, I needed a good discussion.

                    6. Jono

                      Yea, we’re just giving our opinions about what someone else might be thinking. There’s no right or wrong here. I appreciate that you’re one of the easier people here to have a discussion with in disagreement. That’s why I kept trying to hedge myself by acknowledging that I could be wrong. Didn’t want to sound like “im right and you’re wrong”

      2. Jono

        that’s the point. the history of losing makes my point. And yeah, they’re not going to win next year. It might take a few years to become world series caliber, but so what?

        1. On The Farm

          Remember when Magic and Co. bought the Dodgers and hired thee Donnie baseball (not to be confused with our Donnie baseball)? Imagine if Puig would have had Soler’s luck and broke his leg, and without Puig, the team never rallies and they end up firing Mattingly. If you set expectations high and something flukey happens, Girardi can end up like the rest of them. You can say it can take a few years, but how do we know it will work out for us? The Royals have had prospects for years and haven’t won in a long time. The Rays have had really good success developing their prospects, and still haven’t won a title. The Nationals were one of the best teams in the league last year, and didn’t even make the playoffs, there are no sure things. Being a Yankee legend is pretty good in its own right.

          1. Jono

            “how do we know”

            nobody knows the future. That’s why I’m dealing in opinion and not future telling

          2. DocShock8

            2 issues:

            Mattingly was already manager when Magic and Co. bought Dodgers.

            Nationals did make playoffs last year, lost to Cards who lost to Giants, who went to WS.

            1. On The Farm

              Right, my point on 1. was that Magic was brought in and the FO philosophy changed and fans got excited (similar to our situation when Theo was brought. Not identical, but similar). Donnie was considered to be a manager for the job (winning a title), but when things weren’t looking good at the beginning of the season, they were calling for Donnie’s head.

              2. My point with the Nationals was they had one of the best teams, and they shut down Strasburg because they said, well we will try and win without him, if not we will get them next year. But they didn’t. There are no guarantees in baseball. Just because you have a good farm system (like we do) doesn’t mean you will make the playoffs. Just because you made the playoffs (Nats) doesn’t make you a sure thing for the next season. All of this leads to my earlier point. Why leave a top 3 job for another, with more question marks?

  11. Doug

    I hope they keep Dale. The only way I’d let him go is if Girardi is totally committed to and interested in the job rather than it being a negotiation ploy. To fire Svuem and not bring in that guy to them to the top could set the front office back and judging by this year Cub fans are no longer being patient. You might as well have kept Quade and made your play for the best available manager this coming off season.

  12. Jeff Marden

    Two thoughts…

    1) There are only a handfull of jobs in pro sports that you just don’t leave voluntarily. The Yankees are one of them. Girardi stays if he’s wanted.

    2) Cubs brass has not deviated from their plan to build the team from the ground up. I just don’t see them doing it now with the manager’s position. One caveat to that would be that they have proven to make moves if they feel the move betters the team.

    I think Sveum stays

  13. Cubbie in NC

    I do not think that the timing of this is a smart move by the Cubs. Why make the decision today? I would prefer that they either had someone in line to take the job through back channels, or know their possible options. (I guess we will find out later if that is the case) In my mind if Scioscia is available that changes things.

    I would like to see Dale get a shot with a marginal roster to work with. The rotation and bullpen should be much more set than they have been for the last two years. The lineup is still feeble, but trying to win games, and figure out what you have makes it hard in my mind to question game decisions when the Cubs are more concerned with development than winning on the field.

    If things are not happening in 2014 then get rid of him in the middle of the year. But I would like to see him get a shot, unless they have someone who is proven already lined up.

  14. macpete22
  15. Justin

    I like Sveum, but I really think he’s gone. I really have no idea how much of Castro and Rizzo’s struggles were Sveum’s fault, but it was on his watch. And lets be honests those two guys development and Samardzija were really the most important part of his job. So I think he’s gone.
    Who knows how interested the Cubs are in Girardi, but I don’t see why people think it’s such a great job for the coming years. They are going to have an enormous payroll fully of guys who shouldn’t be making close to the salaries they are, and are so old. Plus their farm system is relatively weak, and with the new era of teams locking players up I don’t see them doing well at all in the near future.
    And like what was mentioned above, winning with the Cubs would be worth so much more than winning with the Yanks.

    1. macpete22

      A top 5 farm system is weak?

      1. Justin

        No I was talking about the Yankees, my bad. I was trying to say that managing the Cubs is a MUCH better job than the Yanks over the next 5 years.

      2. MightyBear

        The Yankees don’t have a top 5 system.

    2. Justin

      *people think the Yankees is such a great job.

  16. cubsin

    Managing the 2014 Yankees doesn’t sound like a fun job to me. Rivera and Pettitte are retiring, ARod is facing a long suspension. Teixeira and Youkilis are injured and may never play again. Ichiro and Jeter will be 40 years old next year. Kuroda will be 39. Soriano will be 38. Sabathia is in obvious decline. Cano and Hughes are free agents. Payroll supposedly is being slashed. The farm system is empty.

    1. macpete22

      Kuroda is also a free agent

    2. Hee Seop Chode

      These are all good points. Short of a Dodger like commitment of resources, I don’t see a quick fix. The Yankees may stink for the next 5 years.

      1. Noah_I

        And considering the Yankees are desperate to get under the payroll tax next year, the odds of them doing a huge commitment quick fix is minimal.

      2. Bill

        Agreed. I’m not sure why so many people think the Yankee job looks so much better than the Cubs job over the next few years. Sure the Yanks will have a bigger payroll to work with but in the past the Yankees could go out and land the biggest FA available. Now, teams are locking up their young players, so the FA’s on the market are reaching the end or past their prime. So, you pay premium dollars for a guy that may help you for a couple years, but gets awful expensive near the end of his contract.

        The old Yankee model doesn’t work anymore because of the new CBA and young prospects signing long term extensions with their current team. The Yanks don’t have the farm system to replace all these aging vets, they certainly don’t have the farm system the Cubs have right now. If the salaries were equal I’d rather have the Cubs job because I think their upside looks more promising over the next 5 years.

  17. EQ76

    Hard to blame/fire Sveum with the crap roster he was handed, but I’m not sure we can pass on Girardi. What happens if Girardi goes back to NY and we fire Sveum? Who then?

  18. hansman1982

    What is interesting is you will find that Yankees fans have a highly similar breakdown in their opinions of Girardi. A segment wants him gone immediately and a segment thinks he has done a pretty good job outside of X and Y.

  19. mjhurdle

    Personally, i don’t think that Sveum has done enough wrong to lose the manager’s job. However, like it is often mentioned in regards to free agents, you have to get guys when they are available.
    So while Sveum might not have been a bad manager, it is possible that he didn’t show enough to convince the Front Office that he is the long term answer. And if that is the case, and another candidate is available now, then i could see them letting Sveum go to get their guy.
    Im not sold on Girardi being that guy they want though. I don’t see the Cubs paying him what he is going to want, and not sure that i want them to pay that much for a manager.

  20. MightyBear

    The Cubs did secure the 4th overall pick and 4th pick draft money. That will be 6,2 and 4th picks for Epstein and Co. during their tenure. The Mets got the 10th pick, so if they go after Choo, that pick is protected. It should be another strong draft for the Cubs. I’m glad they got swept by the hated Cardinals now cause the Twins got swept by the Indians. Those losses gained the Cubs an extra 750K for the draft.

  21. jh03

    Brett, has something changed with the site in the past week or so? It keeps locking up and giving me a notification bar saying something about Adobe not responding. This very well could be my work computer messing up, but I’ve never had problems with this site before so I was wondering if there was something I could do to make it stop?

    1. EvenBetterNewsV2.0

      Ha, that is your work saying get back to work.

      1. jh03

        I work for the government.. There’s a really good chance that I get a paper tomorrow telling me not to come back for awhile… I don’t think that’s the impression they’re trying to give! lol.

  22. RoughRider

    I have no feelings about Sveum staying or going. I don’t think he’s done anything to get fired for. Especially considering the players he’s had. However, Girardi seemed to do a pretty good job with the Florida Marlins with the young players they had there in 2006. I though the Cubs should have hired him instead of Pinella. If the Cubs do release Sveum, Girardi would be a good hire. Assuming he is available and willing.

  23. macpete22

    Svuem arrived at Wrigley not to long ago

  24. macpete22

    Gardenhire going back to Minnesota

  25. North Side Irish

    Carrie Muskat ‏@CarrieMuskat 54s
    Ricketts went into #Cubs clubhouse. Coaches Bell, Quirk are here

    Sounds like the decisions should be coming soon.

  26. North Side Irish

    Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 25s
    Source: #Cubs fire Sveum.

  27. JM

    A quote by Theo, sounded a bit like giving Sveum a pass on the fact that they keep turning 40 % of the roster over.

  28. josh ruiter

    IMO, they should either bring in Girardi now, or convince Girardi to take a booth spot for a year and then slide into the job next year after Dale’s contract is up. If we just let Girardi re-up with the Yankees he will not be with the Cubs for awhile.

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