joe girardi managerAs expected, New York Yankees GM Brian Cashman met with Joe Girardi’s agent today to discuss the free agent’s return to the Yankees next year. And, not so unexpectedly, the Yankees made Girardi an offer, according to Jon Heyman.

The interesting part? Girardi’s camp reportedly laid out the parameters of a counteroffer.

The two sides plan to meet again tomorrow, and, if things are playing out as I’d speculated (i.e., Yankees say, “we want you back, here’s our offer, and we’re not granting permission to talk to any other teams until you tell us flat out ‘no’,” and now deeper negotiations with the Yankees, and only the Yankees, will continue). Unfortunately for the Cubs, if they’re pinning their hopes on Girardi, the Yankees do not have to allow Girardi to speak to other teams until his contract is up at the end of this month.

All of Heyman’s sources seem to indicate that Girardi will be returning to the Yankees for any number of reasons (storied franchise, good relationship with front office, family is happy in the area, etc.), and it would be an upset if he seriously entertained other offers. Keep that in mind if Girardi winds up returning to the Yankees. The Cubs can want him with all their hearts – but it doesn’t matter if Girardi is happy in New York.

Thing is: if Girardi were dead set on at least listening to the Cubs’ sales pitch, he doesn’t make a counteroffer to the Yankees today. For those who hope the Cubs have a shot at Girardi, you’ve got to hope that what transpired today wasn’t a true counteroffer. And whatever happens tomorrow doesn’t result in a deal.

  • Blackhawks1963

    Honestly, I’m OK if Girardi stays in NY. The Cubs will be just fine identifying a solid pool of managerial candidates. We don’t need to hire another “big name.” Remember the Dusty debacle? Or Sweet Lou nightmare? Girardi is a great manager, but I like some of the other names floating about…AJ Hinch, Torey Lovullo, Eric Wedge, maybe Bud Black, maybe Mike Maddux. And it’s ridiculous to insist that Theo needs to hire a proven successful manager. Lots of great managers had multiple and failed stops before they transitioned into becoming a great manager.

  • Die hard

    Next Cubs mgr will be SF mgr

    • Chad

      That would be fine by me. But doubt it happens.

  • oswego chris

    just saw a co-worker that said “we are getting Girardi!”…and I said…hate to be Captain Bringdown, but I just don’t see it happening…and if you read deeply into things over the last week you saw that the likelihood of this happeninig was a long shot…

    don’t pin your hopes on this Cubs’ fans…and if it doesn’t happen it is not Theo and Jed’s fault

    • MichiganGoat

      Oh but it is RICKETTS fault, he’s too cheap, but Theo promised Girardi… I’M DEMANDING A INVESTIGATION WE HAVE BEEN LIED TOO WE ARE SUPPOSE TO HAVE GIRARDI !

      Impressive how quickly this has become such as passionate topic, especially when there is no evidence that the Cubs and Girardi have ever talked.


      • frank

        Let me preface this by saying that I don’t know how valid any of this is, but I heard on the radio this morning that the Cubs are set to make Girardi one of the two highest paid managers in baseball, should he come here, and that there is at least some interest on Girardi’s part, which they discerned through indirect means. No sources–nothing, so the whole thing could be suspect.

        • Ian Afterbirth

          I’m afraid, my dear Frank, that it’s the media’s job to make you think it’s a highly viable possibility so that you stay tuned.

          That’s why I bypass them completely and come here directly for my info. I am (truly, because I would love to see Girardi come here) sorry to tell you that, according to what Brett wrote up there, it looks like he’s staying in NYC.

          I know that came off as condescending, which wasn’t my intention – it’s just the way it comes out when I try to be gentle….

    • CubsFaninMS

      I fear that Joe Girardi will be the new Ryne Sandberg now. I guess some fans will not be happy until the ashes of Mordecai “Three Finger” Brown are sitting in the manager’s seat!

      • ssckelley

        I was thinking the same thing. Unbelievable that some Cub fans fail to recognize that Girardi is still under contract with the Yankees and it is all up to Girardi if he wants to entertain an offer to manage the Cubs. The Cubs FO is almost powerless when it comes to Girardi until November 1st, assuming Girardi has not signed an extension with the Yankees.

  • Gutshot5820

    Theo really painted himself in a corner this time. I mean whether we get Girardi or not really should not mean that much in the whole scheme of things. As long as the new manager is a good communicator, saber friendly and good with kids. But Theo basically started checking off a long list of requirements for the new manager that just happened to fit Girardi to a T. Now because of the reasons he fired Sveum for and the qualities he mentioned that he wanted in the new manger described Girardi so well, anything less is going to be looked upon as at least a disappointment.

    • caryatid62

      Who cares what it’s “looked at” like? Stupid fans and media will be stupid. Smart fans and media will be smart. And neither of their opinions mean anything at all.

      Clearly the team believes it made a mistake by hiring Sveum, and judging by the results, they’re probably right. They should get the best manager they can for the job, and how it’s “looked at” should mean less than nothing.

  • Voice of Reason

    My cubs manager list is short. Its short because I need experience, a man who has proven he can win. I don’t want to take a chance on Dave Martinez becoming the next sveum. We can’t have that happen. We need a manager on the field that we can say “manage and win just like you have proven you can do in the past” instead of “let’s see what he can do”

    That said, my wish list is three deep: girardi, brenly and scioscia. Get one of those three

    Hinch? Ausmus? Alomar? No thanks, let them prove they can win in some smaller town like Seattle or Kansas city. We don’t have the time right now to hopefully find a good manager. We need one right now.

    • gutshot5820

      You lost me at “Brenly.”

      • ETS

        Brenly has won a WS since 1908

        • ETS

          Jus Sayin

        • CubbieBubba

          I guess there’s a last time for everything.

    • josh ruiter

      Please no on Scioscia!! Girardi is an obvious desire (but we don’t even know if he will be an option). Brenly is fun to talk about, he does know the organization, but he went to AZ for eventual retirement purposes, why now would that have changed for him to revamp his managerial career in a different place?
      They gotta find a younger guy, or less experienced guy that they can teach the Cub Way to, but a guy who already has the base characteristics they want to see. Brenly and Scioscia won’t change, neither would JG, but that would be difficult to pair with this FO.
      I am still saying Dave Martinez, Jim Hickey, Jose Oquendo, and Sandy Alomar Jr. One of those three have the make up, experience and success (albeit not managerial) in one of the areas Theo mentioned to fit the bill. And I am still real high on Pudge or Ausmus as a bench coach.

      • Voice of Reason

        to josh ruiter…

        Teach young players the “Cub Way”? To most everyone the “Cub Way” is LOSING, PERIOD. We’re the lovable losers, the team that hasn’t won a World Series in over 100 years. That’s not what we want to teach our young players.

        Sveum would still be here if Girardi’s contract wasn’t up. Not because Sveum did a great job, but because for most reasons the Cub manager doesn’t matter. And, this is where you say that our young players didn’t progress, Castro and Rizzo! Castro didn’t have a stellar year, but Rizzo progressed! He didn’t hit for average, but that is so overrated and he did progress in many categories. Then what about how Travis Wood developed? Lake looked solid in his short time here. Castillo progressed.

        This Cubs franchise is like a pot of chili right now. It’s simmering and getting better. Not only at the major league level, but in the minors.

        I don’t think Sveum should have been allowed to lead this team when it was ready to compete, but we could have done worse. I know it’s not about wins and losses, but he did get more wins out of this team which by the way was absolutely pathetic!

        Our next manager needs to be able to deliver. Josh, you said your three candidates have the make up, experience and success, BUT NOT AS A MANAGER! We can’t afford to take a chance on those guys. Now that we’ve let our manager go, our next manager needs the EXPERIENCE AND PROVEN TRACK RECORD OF WINNING!

        That’s why once Girardi tells us no, then we need to look hard at Brenly and Scioscia or any other manager with a proven track record of being able to develop a winner who might want to throw his name in the hat

        • CubsFaninMS

          “Sveum would still be here if Girardi’s contract wasn’t up.”

          I would certainly think our front office is not so foolish as to totally hinge their hopes on one managerial candidate.

          I agree with your “experience” argument, though. We don’t need a “rooke of the year” manager. We need an established veteran manager who has a track record of developing young talent. This selection process is significantly more important than the process that brought Sveum into the organization.

          • Napercal

            Agree. However, there must have been some back channel discussions with Girardi reps. Whatever problems Sveum had as manager were not evident from the team’s performance. It’s quite possible that Rizzo is nothing more than a .240 hitter with 20 homer power. But he’s Theo and Jed’s guy so they have to defend him. It’s hard to tell if Sveum was ordered to change Castro’s approach at the plate. While a laudable goal, most hitters have developed their hitting approach by the time they reach the major league level. Some develop more power as their bodies mature, but pitch selectivity is really hard to teach to a player who basicaly breezes through the minors on talent alone.

            Theo has done a poor job explaining why Sveum was let go. The door is wide open to criticize him going forward. Other than Girardi, any other hire would be as big a crap shoot as hiring Sveum was two years ago. There simply isn’t enough talent at the major league level to determine if a guy can manage. And the guys, other than Girardi, mentioned as candidates have not proven that they can manage. Maybe they can and maybe they can’t. That’s extremely unnerving. If Theo hires one of them, he’s basically saying trust me. Well we trusted him once with Sveum and, by Theo’s own admission, we were wrong to do so. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

            • Cubbie Blues

              Huh, I thought it was quite clear why they fires Sveum.

              • Napercal

                “we now have one of the top farm systems in baseball, some of the very best prospects in the game, and a clear path forward. In order for us to win with this group — and win consistently — we must have the best possible environment for young players to learn, develop and thrive at the major league level. We must have clear and cohesive communication with our players about the most important parts of the game. And — even while the organization takes a patient, long view – we must somehow establish and maintain a galvanized, winning culture around the major league club.”

                That’s Theo’s statement on what the new manager must do … which assumes that Sveum did not do these things. How do you establish a “galvanized, winning culture” when there is crap all over the field. And why should we think theat Hinch or nay of the other no-names being mentioned can mold that same crap into a “Galvanized, winning culture”?

                • Cubbie Blues

                  There was much more said during a radio interview. It’s been fairly well documented.
                  “”There has to be a clear, unified message, and they can’t be getting different signals from different directions and collectively”

                  “When we all started to have concerns in the front office and discussed them toward the end of the first half, it was clear we were all thinking the same thing and the first step was ‘Hey, we need to sit down and have a brutally honest talk with Dale and get his take on this and hear from him, and then look for ways to allow him to adjust in the second half.’ That’s what we did.”

                  “It has nothing to do with one player or one small group of players,” said Epstein, who said last week that Sveum would be evaluated on the progress of young players, in-game moves, use of his 25-man roster and fostering an atmosphere of hard work and preparation and trust with his players.”

                  • Napercal

                    Sorry, but that’s still management B.S. and tells me nothing about why another unproven buddy of Theo would be better than the unproven buddy of Theo that they just fired.

  • Abe Froman

    Counter offer could include that he wants to hear Cubs out before he accepts?

    • Boogens

      Nice call, Abe. That’s exactly what was reported on the SCORE this morning. Girardi’s counter included an opportunity to talk with the Cubs.

    • D-Rock

      Man, I hope this is true.

  • Smackafilieyo

    I don’t think the new manager is gonna matter if players still hit below the Mendoza Line, obp is under .300, and our lineup looks worst than an over 50 years old softball team. We can’t hit. Period. Pitching was good this year…I like girardi but won’t cry over not getting him.

    • Funn Dave

      Who among our everyday starters was hitting below the Mendoza line?

  • Justin

    It’s interesting that none of Heyman’s sources had a true outlook on the Yankees in the coming years that include; garbage roster, inflated contracts, old/crusty players, unfair expecations from a spoiled fan base, toughest division in baseball, shit farm system, and ARod. Good luck with that Joe..

    • Kyle

      If I were a manager and the shape of the team mattered to me, I’d choose neither.

      • Boogens

        Laughing my ass off on that one. You’re absolutely right.

      • Justin

        Well 2014 isn’t going to be pretty. But after that, it looks pretty bright IMO. Hell, whoever takes over in the coming years is going to look like the best coach ever after the shit the Cubs have put on the field in recent years.

        • http://It'searly Mike F

          You contradict yourself. Sveum may have over-achieved with this team. The assumption is from Theo’s comments something special is about to happen. People naturally now how the expectation next year’s line -up won’t be one of the worst in modern Cub history. They also don’t expect another 100 loss season. And frankly most of the names other than JG don’t have the credibility to overcome the poetry of promise of Theo of the end of the 100 year losing seasons. There is are clear indications that Cub ownership is nervous with the perception of unending losing and fan base dissatisfaction. A neophyte or manager who has lost a lot will not get another 100 losing game season, people are wrong on that.

  • Jono

    Im gonna pretend that I didn’t read this. Girardi’s already on a plane heading to chicago.

    • macpete22

      Where did you read that?

      • Jono

        it’s what I’m telling myself to ignore the likelyhood that girardi’s not coming to the cubs

  • Eric

    I don’t know. My heart pines for Girardi but deep down I feel like there would be a power struggle between him and the FO.

  • Jake from da Burbs

    I certainly think that Girardi would be an excellent hire but let me ask, is it necessary for the Cubs to hire the manager that will take them to the World Series now? I think the FO were ideally thinking that Sveum would be their point A to point B guy. Seems to me that Sveum didn’t really get to Point B.

    The next two years is all about player development at the ML level. What if you hire a manager to get you over this hump with a special focus on player development – to take you to Point B and maybe a little bit beyond. I think an experienced manager like Manny Acta, who understands development and the analytics of the game would be good hire on a 3 year deal that allows us to get to 2016-2017 and then reassess. I dont know much about A.J. Hinch but he’s appealing just for the fact that there are synergies with the front office. Another route might be trying to trade for a manager – say maybe Bud Black of the Padres who has managing, player development experience and was a former pitching coach so he knows how to handle a pitching staff.

    While I’d be ecstatic over Girardi, I dont think I would be disappointed if the Cubs hired someonewho has a strong ability to teach and develop players at the ML level and be able to handle a staff.

    • http://It'searly Mike F

      It would be a huge disappointment and gross miscalculation. I don’t argue that they may not contend, no one does, but they can’t put that line-up out there, show no progress and lose 90 to 100 games. A major market won’t substitute rhetoric for winning. The Cubs standard isn’t high, it’s probably 75 games for the next year or two and if Theo isn’t up to that or willing to take the 75-60 game plunge he should move on. I think he is, and hope he is, but he needs to put winning out front now.

  • Spriggs

    I somehow get the feeling that the Yankees are just feeling challenged by the Cubs, and that otherwise, Girardi would be gone. So, yes — this will play out as sort of a Cub thing and we’ll mostly be somewhat disappointed in the new manager (Ausmus).

    • hansman1982

      I think Cashman is feeling challenged by Epstein.

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  • Andrew

    On the radio here in Nashville this morning (104.5) they did their weekly segment with Seth Everett… For what it’s worth – he thinks Girardi will end up with the Cubs, partially because he thinks the pressure on Girardi would be different in Chicago (winning a World Series is just what’s expected in NY, you’ll be a hero in Chicago) and because he thinks that the Cubs actually have a better long-term outlook as a result of the minor league system compared to the Yankees.

    • Southside Cubs Fan

      What part of Nashville you live in?

      • Andrew

        I’m kind of all over the southeast side of Nashville. Live in Nolensville with 2 jobs in Murfreesboro and Brentwood.

    • ssckelley

      The Yankees are old and have already made moves that suggest they are trying to get under the luxury tax threshold in order to reset the penalties, which limits what they do in free agency considerably. You do not want to be the manager of the Yankees while they are rebuilding, it could end up being your last job as a MLB manager. Even Stan Kasten has been quoted to to say they have a “significant rebuilding project in front of us”. The Cubs, on the other hand, have already went through this rebuilding process, they have shed most of the bad contracts, and are in position to start building the MLB team and start winning. Get Castro and Rizzo back on track, add a right handed bat for the outfield, perhaps another free agent starters, and the Cubs could be a playoff contender next year. Does Girardi want to be a goat in New York or a hero in Chicago? Tough choice!

      • YourResidentJag

        Or an analyst for MLBNetwork whose headquarters are in NY?

  • Brian Peters

    It was already reported (yesterday) that Ausmus is not on the list. Google him, and you’ll see that, while he is thought to be a potentially-great manager, he doesn’t have enough experience.

  • Aaron

    Back to Girardi, if the Cubs were serious about securing his services, they could put “feelers” out there to his people to let him know that if he were available in less than 30 days, that they would like to meet with him on the first day he’s able to talk and that they see him as the Cubs next manager. If the Cubs FO is playing things cool and the Yankees are being aggressive in re-signing him, and Girardi doesn’t really know how much the Cubs may really want his services, then he may very well re-sign with the Yankees. Bottom line, if we lose the “opportunity” to have Girardi as the Cubs next manager, and Girardi is quoted after the fact that he didn’t think the Cubs were serious about hiring him and that he would have been open to the job, I believe many fans would be up in arms.

    • Rich

      I think Girardi and his people know very well that the Cubs are interested.
      If Girardi in fact asked the Yankees to be able to talk to the Cubs, then that is a good sign for the Girardi lovers.

    • Southside Cubs Fan

      I doubt Girardi will ever say that if he goes back to the Yankees. That would make him look horrible in the Big Apple.

  • Aaron

    This one goes out to Southside Cubs Fan…

    “The only confident thing I can tell you is when the last name is Steinbrenner,” Cashman said, “the effort’s going to be there in terms of making a full push for having the best team on the field you can possibly have.”

    If the Cubs are aggressive in their pursuit of Girardi, which includes paying him well, then they will get him. Everyone on planet Cubs knows he’s not a free agent until November 1st. However, does that mean a team should remain passive? Given the Cubs’ need for a proven manager that can help take this franchise to the next level, now if the time to be smart and aggressive.

  • Aaron

    Buster Olney of ESPN reports Cubs ownership is “making a strong internal argument” to hire Girardi, adding they plan to make him a significant contract offer if given the chance. Girardi’s contract expires on Oct. 31 and the Yankees are hesitant to give him permission to negotiate with other clubs in the meantime.

    Looks like Ricketts may not be sitting and waiting for Joe to officially be a free agent. I’m not sure who’s Buster’s source is but I like this media approach. If you want something, you have to go get it. The best teams in sports know how to do this.

    • Voice of Reason

      And, the best agents know how to use other teams to get their clients more money!

      The Cubs are being used as a pawn. Girardi’s agent certainly doesn’t want to sit back and take what the Yankees offer. They want to get a bigger offer from the Cubs then force the Yankees to match the Cubs final offer, which the Yankees will do!

      Girardi will not leave the Yankees.

      • Southside Cubs Fan

        I think Girardi’s cap with the Yanks will be similar to his Cap with the Cubs. I don’t think money will decide this. I think, at heart, he wants to be a Cub, but he wants to know what the are willing to do to make the team better, quicker. If they can answer all his questions, there is no doubt he will be a Cubs.

        The Yanks are going to pay him, he doesn’t need the Cubs for that.

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