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indians logoFresh podcast episode on the way this morning. Huzzah!

  • It was the American League’s turn to crush a team’s 162-game season with a one-game playoff last night, and the Rays did just that, beating the Indians 4-0. It was a battle of young pitchers – Alex Cobb and Danny Salazar – and small market teams. Although the Rays got the best of the Indians, I’d like to think the Indians will view this season, overall, as a success. When they went spend-heavy over the Winter and brought in Terry Francona to manage, very few gave the Indians a reasonable shot at actually making the playoffs just a year removed from finishing 26 games under .500. Looking at the Cubs going into this offseason, I ask you: wouldn’t you be plenty satisfied with the Cubs having an Indians-like season next year?
  • With their win, the Rays face the Red Sox in the ALDS starting on Friday. The Cubs can vicariously ride out the Rays’ playoff run through David DeJesus, who led off and played left field for the Rays last night (he didn’t do much worth noting, except for become the recipient of the most disgusting “beer” shower ever – whoever you are, dude, you should be shamed publicly).
  • The playoffs continue today, with the Pirates visiting the Cardinals in the first game of their NLDS series (4pm CT), and the Dodgers visiting the Braves in the first game of their NLDS series (7:30pm CT).
  • Jesse Rogers looks at the Cubs’ outfield situation this year and in the future.
  • Bruce Miles reviews the Cubs by position in 2013.
  • An uncomfortable story about the Cubs inadvertently throwing out some memorabilia, including a giant card fans signed for the family of Ron Santo in 2011, and then rooftop owner Beth Murphy finding the stuff. (As an aside … what is the socially appropriate length of time you’re supposed to keep commemorative, oversized cards signed by your fans? Unless it’s a really good one, cards I receive usually last about two months tops.)
  • I would like to be friends with Stewart McVicar, who has created the ultimate Cubs man cave at his house. Call me maybe?
  • Some turnover in the Chicago media for those interested: Phil Rogers is leaving the Tribune in favor of MLB.com, and Bruce Levine is leaving ESPN in favor of a yet-unannounced destination. Hopefully Levine lands somewhere that we can still hear/read his work regularly. I like Levine.
  • Clark Addison

    I’ll miss Rogers’ fantasy trades and fake rumors. No idea how he kept his job as long as he did.

    • cms0101

      Wasn’t he already working for the MLB network? Is this news really that he’s leaving the Trib? Where I’m employed, people are often leaving, “to pursue other opportunities.” That usually means they were fired.

      • gutshot5820

        I’d be willing to bet he is getting psid significantly more at espn than he was getting paid by the Trib.

        • cms0101

          He didn’t go to ESPN, he went to MLB network. And really, he had already been working there for them as a correspondent. I would think his regular gig at the Trib probably paid more than a correspondent gig at MLB Network. Unless he’s getting a studio gig, I doubt there’s a significant raise in the cards for Mr. Rogers. Good for him if there is though. I can’t hate on a guy for making money, even if he is a hack.

      • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

        Rogers just completed his stint at the Tribune this week.

        • cms0101

          I understand that part of it, but I believe he was freelancing for the MLB Network already. They seem to bring him on for the trade deadline and other Cubs-related stories often.

    • Boogens

      I think that it’s possible that this could be the result of the same situation that caused Dan Pompei to leave the Trib. I had read that the Trib had instituted some kind of policy for their sports writers that would require them to curtail / eliminate the side work that they do for other sports outlets. It’s possible that, like Pompei, Rogers decided that he didn’t want to be encumbered that much.

  • Jono

    Cubs winning a wild card in 2014?! F yeah!!

    • Kyle

      Step 1: Acquire one serious bat and one useful starting pitcher

      Step 2: Have completely revamped bullpen become very good

      Step 3: Have Castro, Rizzo and Samardzija not only rebound, but take steps forward from previously established levels.

      Step 4: Have Baez come up mid-season and hit 15-20 HRs from somewhere on the infield.

      All of those are feasible and put us right in the middle of the playoff races. Of course, it’s also feasible that none of them happen and we lose 95 games.

      • Norm

        Step 1: Carlos Gonzalez and Tanaka/D.Price
        Step 2: maybe sign 1 veteran to a 1-2 year deal, nothing more
        Step 3: Pray
        Step 4: Even sooner, May?

        • Brian

          What is all the talk about Carlos Gonzalez…I live in Denver and there is no talk or speculation of him being on the block that I have heard. Just Curious, thanks.

          • On The Farm

            I think there was something on another site (Cubs Den?), but I think that has been confirmed as rumor only. It was a trade that involved Arrieta, which if the Cubs could land a talent like CarGo, with Arrieta as the centerpiece, they would have pulled that trigger.

          • Norm

            It was a rumor a couple weeks ago…MLB trade rumors has something, I’m sure.
            Although the rumor for Arrieta is laughable.

      • Jono

        so, you’re telling me there’s a chance?

        • kscubfan

          Hey what was all that one in a million talk?

        • Noah_I

          At the beginning of this year, no one thought that the Indians had a chance. They 2012 Indians were essentially the reverse of the 2013 Cubs: decent offense, terrible pitching. They improved their offense and defense through the additions of Bourn and Swisher (although Bourn at least was fairly disappointing offensively), had a huge year from Jason Kipnis, continued improvement from Carlos Santana, and a big part time year our of Ryan Rayburn. The biggest thing, though, was that their starting pitching went from pretty awful to above average. They also got to play a whole bunch of games against 2 of the 5 worst teams in baseball, which helps in the wild card race (although getting to play the Astros helped the Rangers stay above the AL East contenders as well).

          So yes, it’s doable. The 5 teams I’m seeing as the top contenders in the NL are: Atlanta, St. Louis, Los Angeles, Washington, Pittsburgh. Then there is the next tier of teams that I either think will fall off a bit (Reds), have been good enough recently that I could think they could bounce back (Giants), or could compete with a bit of luck (D-Backs).

          If Castro returns to 2010-2012 form offensively with maintaining his level as a league average or a bit better defensive shortstop, Rizzo can take a step forward, Barney has a BABIP bump to at least not being a black hole in the 8 spot, and the Cubs can get a half year of strong performance from Baez, and add a couple pieces, they could definitely at least joint the second tier of interesting and potentially competing teams.

      • MightyBear

        1. Jacob Ellsbury, Scott Baker and Sweeny.

        2 and 3. Hire a great manager to make 2 and 3 happen. Possibly sign a veteran bullpen guy to help the kids in the pen.

        4. Get Baez some work at 2nd and 3rd in Spring training and AAA. When he’s ready and a Super 2, bring him up.

  • hansman1982

    BUT ITS RON SANTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Interesting that Beth Murphy rummages through the Cubs trash. Must be hard times for the rooftops.

    • ETS

      This made me chuckle.

    • Ron

      That is what I was thinking! The trash part.

    • http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/653cc0c5f0eded621ab13b4f631de7da.png Cizzle

      I was thinking the same thing, Murphy’s been making money and getting publicity off the Cubs’ trash for quite awhile.

    • cas-castro

      Beth is part of the new series on A&E: Trash Wars -Chicago. She goes in people’s trash looking for Cubs treasure that she can sell at auction or on E-bay.

  • Tim

    This means no more Bruce from 9-12 Saturday mornings talking baseball :(

  • Try Hard

    Yes, I bet my girlfriend, now Fiance the cubs would make the playoffs in 2014 three years ago and I love being right.

    The only other bet we we have is a standing $10 every time the Bears play the Giants and she refused to pay up when the bears won a preseason game last year.

    • http://epicfunhub.com Frank

      You cannot have a money bet only with a woman. There’s a possibly your taking away shoe money from them. You have to give them a $10 or “a do” option. That “do” option might be something stupid or whatever the two of you agree to.

      • TWC

        Yay! Sexist blather!

        Clown.

  • Kyle

    You can’t “inadvertently” throw something away, unless you really thought the dumpsters out back were earmarked for your storage unit in Something-dale, Brookfeather, Raintree.

    They threw it away on purpose. They didn’t realize it was going to make people mad.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      Think whatever you want on the merits, but as to the throwing stuff away inadvertently … are you serious? Having just moved, I can say with complete confidence: all kinds of stuff gets thrown away on accident. Add in a whole bunch of employees and the telephone effect? Come on, duders.

    • beerhelps

      Who in their right mind is mad? On the other hand you would think they could auction some of that stuff off and make a few bucks.

      • Kyle

        People who like to get mad at baseball teams. There’s a lot of them, mostly old.

        • Spriggs

          Not that there’s anything wrong with being old…

    • Spriggs

      What happened with the trash was this: The janitorial staff has not yet mastered the English language. They see a sign on a big pile of stuff that says “DO NOT TRASH”. One of the first words this particular janitorial staff mastered was “TRASH”. So, out everything went!

  • mr.mac

    I would not be satified if the Cubs made it to the one game playoff and lost. Would I enjoy the ride? Hell yes! But satisfied by a playoff ouster? No chance.

    • Scotti

      For 2014 a one-and-done would satisfy me, absolutely. After that, no.

  • cubfanincardinalland

    I will make a poster this morning saying “best of luck in the future Dale”, and send it to the Cubs. Is that memorabilia too?
    And of course the old bar maid Beth never misses a chance to try and put the Cubs in a bad light. Talk about biting the hand.
    Oh wait, I forgot, people come to Wrigleyville to go to her dive, and just check out the ballgame as an afterthought. My bad.

  • MJ

    If the Cubs make the Wild Card Game next year by being competitive across the board, against teams with winning records, then bring it on.

    If it means feasting on bad teams (such as going 17-2 against the White Sox like the Indians just did) and being unremarkable against everyone else, then it’s fool’s gold. Keep it.

    • twinkletoez

      If the Cubs go 92-70 I don’t care who they beat or how they get there I will be happy.

      • Ghost of Ron Santo

        Ditto. You are supposed to go 17-2 against theSox.

  • itzscott

    Telander surprisingly penned an interesting piece in the ST this morning, calling out Epstein and Ricketts for the sloth-like pace of the rebuild by comparing how quickly both Boston & Cleveland rebounded and rebuilt from disasterous seasons.

    While I agree with Theo’s “plan”, I also have to agree with Telander’s take on the pace and the results after 2-3 years of this.

    • Norm

      CLE hasn’t been good since 2007?

    • jon

      http://www.suntimes.com/sports/22933200-419/after-two-seasons-of-theo-cubs-are-no-closer-to-winning-world-series.html

      One of the worst piles of crap I have ever read. And since when did Rizzo have a “superstar contract”?

    • ari gold

      Seriously, when Epstein took over we were coming off a 90+ loss season with a bunch of past there prime players and not much to be excited about in the farm system (Baez hadn’t even played above Boise yet).

      Then they capped spending in the draft which made it all the more harder to build a farm system quickly. Payroll got cut at the MLB level also. Lot’s of factors going against Theo. But the organization is in a much better place now. Yes not all of the prospects will turn out. But we have a plan. After 2 seasons I think we’re on the right track.

      Anyone who thought we would be competitive after 2 seasons was dillusional. When the organization top to bottom was as bad as it was in 2011, it was going to take a while.

      With that said, the biggest concern has to be with Castro, Rizzo, and Shark. If they continue to struggle that does set us back some.

    • ssckelley

      Just another writer trying to create his own spin on the situation so people will read his articles.

      • cubfanincardinalland

        Telander loses credibility in the article when he makes statements like “the Cubs screwed up organization”. You can certainly make a case that their should have been more improvement this past season. Probably one of the main reasons Sveum got the ax.
        But to say the Cubs are a screwed up organization is just hack journalism. Anybody in baseball would tell you that their front office is manned by some very talented baseball execs. Their scouting and player development guy Jason McLeod and his staff are considered some of the best talent evaluators in the game. He is coveted by many other teams.
        Hoyer would get a new job in a couple days if he had to. Epstein has nothing but a track record of success. If anything the past two years simply are a testament to how screwed up the Cubs previous organization truly was.

  • OlderStyle

    “When they went spend-heavy over the Winter and brought in Terry Francona to manage, very few gave the Indians a reasonable shot at actually making the playoffs just a year removed from finishing 26 games under .500. Looking at the Cubs going into this offseason, I ask you: wouldn’t you be plenty satisfied with the Cubs having an Indians-like season next year?”
    Is this a prelude to reporting Joe G. is on his way? Certainly you’re not fanning the Girardi-to-Cubs fire?
    Heck yeah I’d take a winning season over crappy (watch the kids develop) seasons. I’ll watch my own kids develop, I want to see winning Cubs baseball.

  • frank

    Does “Indians-like” mean we get to beat the white sox a thousand times?

    • aCubsFan

      Exactly. If it were for all the wins over the White Sox I don’t think the Indians would have been in the wild card.

  • Chris84

    Why is Beth Murphy dumpster diving the Wrigley trash?

  • PKJ

    Sorta disappointed in you for using their racist mascot in this post, Brett.

    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/10/indians-fans-dress-up-in-red-face-for-wild-card-game/

    • jon

      Stop trolling/race bating.

      • PKJ

        Who? Me, or Brett? I’m not the one using the racist image.

        • jon

          You are trolling. It’s team official team logo. How else should he identify the team?

          • PKJ

            Perhaps he’d picture from the game, or the C or cursive I that they use instead.

            Here’s one: http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/53/57/full/k3qoizdk7d3im5qa7aguuds2g.gif

            I’ve been reading and commenting on this blog for years and perhaps I expected better from him.

            • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

              If you’ve been reading and commenting for years, you’d know that for all teams, where possible, I use “classic” logos (right down to the Expos for the Nationals). Indeed, this one is still on the Indians helmet.

              • CubFan Paul

                Since when did a picture of a Native American become “racist”?

                Sounds like PKJ has his own issues that he’s projecting onto others.

              • PKJ

                It’s too bad. I really like your blog, too. Later.

                • Chad

                  Not to get on a rant here, but this is what really bothers me about what some in this country has turned into. You put an Indians logo up and you’re racist. You say you don’t like the president and your racist, not because you think his policies are ridiculous but because of his race. A black player gets benched or gets in trouble and the media cries racism (can’t remember when or who this was). Maybe people should be less sensitive. I can’t truly comment I guess as a caucasian male who has never been discriminated against because of my race (I don’t think) but I just don’t get the over sensitivity to these issues, but again maybe that is just me and now I may be called a racist for my thoughts.

                  • On The Farm

                    If the MLB hasn’t forced the Indians to change their logo (and the NFL hasn’t forced Washington Redskins to change theirs), then it should be a non-issue.

                  • PKJ

                    I didn’t say anything about any of these things. Chief Wahoo is deliberately racist — poking fun at an entire race of people. This has nothing to do with being a PC cop or anything, rather speaking up for people who have little voice to defend themselves.

                    That or maybe I’ve read “Horton Hears a Who” one too many times to my kids.

                    • Scotti

                      So you consider AN ENTIRE RACE to be a people who have “little voice” and need you to come to their defense? Who’s the racist?

                    • King Jeff

                      Sorry, PKJ, my family is full of Native American heritage, and none of my grandparents or their brothers and sisters think that the nicknames “Indians, Redskins, or Braves” are racist terms. They laugh at the politically correct crowd that thinks that this offends them. Try digging somewhere else for something to troll about.

                  • TWC

                    “I can’t truly comment I guess as a caucasian male who has never been discriminated against because of my race … but again maybe that is just me and now I may be called a racist for my thoughts.”

                    Yeah, Chad. It’s hard to be white, huh? Poor guy.

                    • Chad

                      Hmm, that’s not what I said, or meant. I said I shouldn’t be considered an expert on what is racist as I’ve not been discriminated against. I was saying in my opinion that this world has become over sensitive. Everything that happens gets claimed as racism. Like Brett putting the logo on the piece he wrote. Was he doing it because he was racist, no, it’s their logo, but someone is over sensitive and claims racism. I think that happens far too much. That just my opinion though

                • On The Farm

                  If using a team logo is offensive to you, then losing you probably isn’t that big of a deal. Oh well.

                • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

                  I understand that Chief Wahoo is right on that line, but the Indians *still use it.* When something I write is about a non-Cubs team, I use the team’s logo as the picture. That’s what I’ve always done. There is no value-judgment embedded into it. That you would ascribe to me a vile motivation tells me that you don’t know me at all. Which is fine. Sorry to have pissed you off.

                  • cubfanincardinalland

                    Never had a problem with the Indians. But the Redskins has always seemed to cross the line of good taste for me.

                    • On The Farm

                      It probably is a little offensive (I won’t speak for Native Americans), but if it was that big of a deal the owners would vote and would tell Synder that if he would like to remain in the NFL he will change the name.

                    • C. Steadman

                      I’m a little late to the discussion but I dont feel the names are racist….especially after I read this article about it
                      http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-sounds

                    • C. Steadman

                      If you are too lazy to read the article…here is a snipet from it

                      “And I definitely don’t know how I’ll tell the athletes at Wellpinit (Wash.) High School — where the student body is 91.2 percent Native American — that the “Redskins” name they wear proudly across their chests is insulting them. Because they have no idea.

                      “I’ve talked to our students, our parents and our community about this and nobody finds any offense at all in it,” says Tim Ames, the superintendent of Wellpinit schools. “‘Redskins’ is not an insult to our kids. ‘Wagon burners’ is an insult. ‘Prairie n—–s’ is an insult. Those are very upsetting to our kids. But ‘Redskins’ is an honorable name we wear with pride. … In fact, I’d like to see somebody come up here and try to change it.”

                  • miggy80

                    This explains the BN’er shirt. :P

                  • PKJ

                    He’s not on the line, he’s pretty well over it.
                    “Sorry to have pissed you off.” Nah… just be sorry to be a part of the culture that uses a caricature of a red faced cartoon to sell tickets and get clicks on a blog.

                    • Cubbie Blues

                      Do you really think that is what Ace did there? That is just asinine.

                    • jon

                      [img]http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=dsvG6NxeN2daGM&tbnid=tyCd_qQPz8VAFM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fskiffleboom.wordpress.com%2Fcategory%2Fhumor-2%2F&ei=HolNUvGlKajUyQHozoAQ&bvm=bv.53537100,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNEAiH-eAYtMi_zkCvSPpCBs3rpDwQ&ust=1380899475761538[/img]

                    • TWC

                      Your point has been made, kid. If you keep commenting after you said you’re done reading this blog you’re gonna lose some credibility.

                    • jon

                      let’s try that again[img]http://oi39.tinypic.com/2vvv1a0.jpg[/img]

                    • jon

                      I’m sorry Smokey, this isn’t Nam, there are rules here.

                    • King Jeff

                      Oklahoma literally means “red people”, should we shut down the state and everything with that name in it?

                    • ETS

                      “Oklahoma literally means “red people”, should we shut down the state and everything with that name in it?”

                      No, just the chickasaw national recreational area.

                    • Scotti

                      “Oklahoma literally means “red people”, should we shut down the state…”

                      I’m okay with shutting down Oklahoma but not because of what the word means. Too much damn dust…

                  • TWC

                    “When something I write is about a non-Cubs team, I use the team’s logo as the picture.”

                    While you have been consistent with this over the years, I would observe by way of a cross-sport comparison that several media organizations (including the AP, I believe) no longer refer to the Redskins by name in their reporting, but use “Washington” instead.

                    It suggests to me that just because a sports team has used offensive imagery in the past (and in the present) that folks in the media world are by no means required to perpetuate it.

                    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

                      The discussion, then, should have been “should we be using this logo (hell, should the Indians?),” not “I’m disappointed to learn that Brett is a racist.”

                    • hansman1982

                      If you’re racist then I’m equally disappointed that google is a racist too.

                    • TWC

                      Well, certainly. It’s unfortunate that some of the most sensitive subjects provide for some of the biggest knee-jerk responses.

                    • ClevelandCubsFan

                      I don’t think Brett is a racist. And Brett, I do understand your justification. It’s consistent and within the bounds of defensible.

                      However, Chief Wahoo is perhaps the most horrible caricature of an ethnic minority in the world of sports. I think the Indians should ditch him. I would encourage you Brett (consistency be damned) to rethink the usage of the of this mascot on your site.

                      Personally I’d like to start a movement to christen them the Cleveland Spiders (an old NL team). Maybe a la the Nationals you could use that as the team image.

                      That said I think we can all respectfully disagree here. Calling someone a racist is one of the lowest blows a person can strike in our society, and once the label sticks, it is very hard to remove, even if without merit. Causally tossing it around, TWC, doesn’t help heal our deep racial wounds.

                • waittilthisyear

                  later

                • ssckelley

                  Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

            • MightyBear

              This is quite possibly the stupidest thread/comments in the history of BN. If Brett is a racist, then I’m Clark Gable.

          • PKJ

            There are two options here:

            1) People use the logo knowing it offends people or
            2) People use it unaware that it’s just about the same as painting a black person in blackface and putting it on a hat.

            I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and just assume that he doesn’t know that it’s offensive. If that makes me a troll, then cool. I’ve said my peace.

            • CubFan Paul

              So you know what offends Native Americans and Blacks?

            • twinkletoez

              I know feeding the animals is never a good idea, but I honestly I have to ask. When did naming a sports franchise after a group of people / race and using an image of them as a mascot / logo become offensive? I see it more as honoring those people.

              I know if a sport team named them selves after me, and had pictures of me on their uniforms, and a mascot that looked like me, I would find it an honor and pretty awesome not offensive.

            • Eternal pessemist

              Later jack-ass..sorry if i offended you

              • Cubbie Blues

                Wha??? This is your first post on this post. Way to go out there and be a false Martyr.

            • Josh

              I think you meant “piece” not peace, as in “right on man”

    • Jono

      Offensive? Probably. Racist? Not according to its definition, “the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.”

      Again, is it offensive? Probably.

      • PKJ

        It’s both according to this definition.

        • Jono

          no, it’s not. No one is saying that all native americans look or act like that, no one is saying that they’re inferior. Therefore, it’s not racist. Personally, I don’t find it offensive bc I wouldn’t care if there was an italian or jewish mascot. I’d love it. But if a native american found it offensive, I wouldn’t argue with them. We have to stop calling things racist simply b/c we don’t like it. It marginalizes the real racism in this world which causes a lot of harm to people. It’s like the boy who cried wolf.

          • CubFan Paul

            “We have to stop calling things racist simply b/c we don’t like it. It marginalizes the real racism in this world which causes a lot of harm to people”

            This 100%. I thank you as black man.

            ..Nothing worse than a white man (probably PKJ) lecturing on racism.

            • YourResidentJag

              Gotta say, Paul’s gotta a good point here.

            • Southside Cubs Fan

              The problem is racismis an interpretation. If a person feels something is racist to them, then 99.9% of the time, it is racist.

              example A: Random white guy calls a random black guy the N word. This is insulting to the the black guy, so therefor it is racist.

              example B: White guy who is friends with a black guy calls black guy the N word. Black guy and white have the kind of relationship where it is acceptable, because he uses it in a way that is no different then friend, homey, Amigo, or any other word that means friend. This is not racism.

              The point is he can think the logo is racist. I may even agree with him that it is racist. In fact, I do. I dont think a team would ever call themselves the Cleveland African Americans, Cleveland Blacks or the Cleveland British Americans, or the Cleveland Whites. However, to point at Brett for using a logo that is copyrighted to represent that team is taking it to far. Brett is at absolutely no fault.

              • Jono

                Racism has a definition. It’s not simply whatever we want it to be.

                Calling a black guy the N word is racist when done to make the black person inferior.

                “because he uses it in a way that is no different then friend, homey, Amigo, or any other word that means friend. This is not racism.”

                That situation is not racism b/c it’s not used to make the black guy inferior.

                “The point is he can think the logo is racist.”

                That doesn’t mean it is.

                Arguing that it’s offensive is different. Offensive does not equal racist.

                • Southside Cubs Fan

                  So you think it would be cool if they changed their name to the Cleveland African American, and created a black face with an Afro instead of a red face with a feather.

                  • Jono

                    Again, there’s a difference between racist of offensive. I already disclosed that I believed the indians logo is probably offensive. I personally don’t find it offensive b/c I’m not native american, I’m italian, and I love the italian brewers sausage mascot. But I’m sure there are native americans who do find it offensive and I respect that.

                    • Jono

                      “racist *and* offensive”, not “of”

                  • mjhurdle

                    that would be as crazy as a team naming themselves after angry Irish people wanting to fight and having a mascot to match. No way would that ever happen. ever.

              • CubFan Paul

                “example B: White guy who is friends with a black guy calls black guy the N word. Black guy and white have the kind of relationship where it is acceptable…”

                This is not acceptable. Why white people think this is beyond me.

                • Southside Cubs Fan

                  Because the N word, when ending in gga, instead of gger, has a different meaning. If a black person has that relationship with that person, then their is absolutely nothing offensive about it if used in a friendly way. Infact, the gga version has actually spread and is used a lot in the latino community as much if not more then the black community. It is no different then me calling my friend a fool or an idiot. If it’s my friend, it’s ok, but if it’s a complete stranger who I do not have this type of relationship with, then it probably not ok.

                  • CubFan Paul

                    “Infact, the gga version has actually spread and is used a lot in the latino community as much if not more then the black community”

                    more than the Black community?? Wrong (again).

                    “It is no different then me calling my friend a fool or an idiot”

                    Call “you black friend” the gga version in front of other blacks and see how that works out for you.

                    “If it’s my friend, it’s ok”

                    Wrong again. No “N” word from a white person is NEVER OKAY.

                    Smh@white people lecturing on Black culture and racism. Sad, but hilarious.

                    • Southside Cubs Fan

                      Im black buddy.

                    • CubFan Paul

                      “Im black buddy”

                      Then you’re what’s wrong with Black culture and racism.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Well said Paul.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      I really didn’t want to get involved in this conversation but any version of the N word should be avoided by all races. It’s a horrible word from a horrible history and trying to argue that the spelling if the word has a different meaning.

                      I suggest a reading of “The N Word” to fully understand the bile of the word. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005OLB3S8/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_awd_Wwztsb1F41VC7

                    • Southside Cubs Fan

                      Definitely not. The N word is not something I use on a daily basis, I just understand the way it’s used. No different then any other word. I fact, the N word in no way represents the black community by definition, and therefore should not be permissible to only the black community. The N word means ignorant. when used properly, it is in no way offensive to black people, but a representation of a person who lacks knowledge of a subject. The gga term, which is the slang(or street) term has it’s own meaning, and the word more times then not, if not every time is just another way of saying friend, or Homey. There is nothing offensive about calling someone friend. IF a person chooses to use a word for their own meaning, and the person they are using the word towards excepts that meaning, then it is ok 100% of the time. It’s no different then females who call their friend the B word. You may not like it, but it’s not meant in an offensive manner.

                      My friends use the word “Charlie” like most people use the N word. I have no idea where it started, but it’s just what we use. It means the same, friend, homey or whatever is close to it. That may not be the proper way to use the word Charlie, but it means what it means to us and therefor it acceptable.

                    • twinkletoez

                      A few things, first you don’t have to be black to understand history and culture of black people. Just like you don’t have to be an ex baseball player to understand baseball.

                      Though I never use the word, don’t you think it is starting to change in meaning? It is used in many cultures now and song lyrics and in a lot of cases it represents friend or buddy. ( I am not naive and understand it is used in an offensive way much more often then not)

                      Kind of like the word gay. many years ago it had a completely different meaning then it does today, and was common to be heard in general conversation and in movies and TV shows.

                    • Eternal pessemist

                      Um..,whoever said the white man can’t comment (can t understand, etc…) is also being racist. Racism exists in every community. Too often it is claimed to shut down reasonable discussion and opinion.

                    • caryatid62

                      The two scenarios you mention in your post are not analogous.

                      While you don’t need to have played professional baseball to understand the way the sport works, you do have to have played professional baseball player to know what it’s like to be a professional baseball player within the culture of other professional baseball players.

                      The analogous argument would be that you don’t have to be black to understand the sociology of racism in this country, but you DO need to be black to understand the nuances within the culture that exist within that sociological framework.

                  • Scotti

                    The interesting thing about the words Negro and Caucasian is that ONE of those words IS inherently racist.

                    The word Negro is simply Spanish for black. The “N” word is simply a bastardization of the same word by southerners (who actually pronounced Negro with the “igga” ending–it takes effort for a person with a deep southern accent to pronounce anything with an “er” sound to it). Negro–any variation by any ethnicity–is not inherently racist. What the intent is behind the usage determines whether or not the usage is racist.

                    However, the word Caucasian is, in and of itself, racist in its very root. The term was coined because the person coining the phrase (Christoph Meiners) believed that WHITES (not blacks, etc.) were from the Caucus region. He believed this because he mistakenly believed that the Caucus region was where Mount Ararat was (of Noah’s Ark fame). So whites are Caucasians (biblical descendants) and everyone else “evolved” from monkeys. Meiners was not the only believer in polygenism (different races came into being in different ways) but he coined the phrase Caucasian.

                    • Southside Cubs Fan

                      Learned something. Thanks Scotti

                    • Scotti

                      No problem, Southside. I feel all icky inside every time I’m labeled Caucasian and yet, somehow, that word is okay.

                      As a side note, I’ve heard elderly, southern blacks refer to their race as “**ggra” and I’ve understood that they meant no disrespect to themselves, nor to their race. Because of their diction, they just didn’t pronounce it “negro” but that is what they meant.

                      I’ve also heard African blacks called African Americans–that’s just stupid (and my lawyer IS an African American and he is lily white). This whole thing has gotten way more complicated than necessary.

          • On The Farm

            “..I wouldn’t care if there was an italian or jewish mascot…”

            Actually the Brewers have a whole race set up that they do at their home ballpark. The sausage race. No one seems offended by that.

            • Jono

              oh yea. And I love the italian one! The fact that someone STOLE it once fits perfectly for being italian!

              • Scotti

                And Randal Simon “wacked” the Italian and got arrested.

            • Scotti

              I am both Polish and German. I was offended when they added the hotdog.

              • hansman1982

                I’m German and Native American so I am offended at my racism.

    • Cleanup Poster

      As a Native American and can without a doubt say that, that logo is in NO WAY OFFENSIVE to me. People need to stop being so thinned skinned.

      • Scotti

        Correct, there are enough Native Americans, in CLEVELAND, to protest every single game and make a fuss. They don’t. Why? I take it that they don’t really care. Like all ethnic groups, Native Americans have plenty to concern themselves with and this just doesn’t seem very high on the list. Saw this on a Cleveland/Native American site and thought it fit in really well:

        An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life.

        “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.

        “It is a terrible fight, and it is between two wolves.

        One is evil, – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

        The other is good, – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility,kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

        This same fight is going on inside you, – and inside every other person,too.”

        The grandson thought about it for a minute, then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

        The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

        • Jono

          I like that

          • Scotti

            Pretty awesome, isn’t it?

        • Cleanup Poster

          Well put Scotti

  • Southside Cubs Fan

    I feel the Cubs are going to suprise a lot of people this offseason. They will more then likely bring in one of the top FA(Ellsbury, Choo, Cano(less likely)), and I’m feeling pretty certain(don’t know why) that they will win the Tanaka bidding. Add in a good manager(possibly Girardi) and the possibility that Baez makes the team out of ST(Only if he absolutely crushes again) or more then likely as soon as he passes the time for an extra year of control, the Cubs could be right there where the Indians were this year.

    2) Castillo
    3) Rizzo
    4) Baez
    5) Valbeuna/Murphey
    6) Castro
    7) Choo
    8)Lake/Sweeny
    9)Shierholtz/?

    Shark
    Wood
    Tanaka
    Jackson
    ?

    It could get interesting.

    • Eternal pessemist

      Batting Choo 7h? No way!!

      • North Side Irish

        That’s actually playing Choo in LF (where he belongs)…numbers indicate fielding position, not batting order.

      • Southside Cubs Fan

        That’s the position, not the batting order. Lulz

  • Indy57

    Honestly, the bashers are out there. The Sun Times, the “roofies” and Sullivan are the main culprits. After reading his stuff on Twitter, I’m often tempted to tweet back to Sullivan to re-think his career. He seems to think he is actually funny. When did “funny” replace actual reporting? This whole trash bin incident is not news worthy either. Sullivan is implying that the Ricketts, Epstein or Hoyer went out of their way to throw the stuff out. And to have Beth Murphy pick it out of the garbage and gloat about it. There are so many people who are working against the goal of having a championship organization and they have nothing to do with the team except make money off of them without contributing a dime’s worth of talent. I’m sick of it.

  • Internet Random

    “[W]hoever you are, dude, you should be shamed publicly”.

    At a minimum. I’d like to see him face either a battery suit or an ass-kicking.

    • TWC

      Best of both worlds: an ass-kicking by having batteries thrown at him.

      • frank

        While wearing a suit.

  • North Side Irish

    I’d be OK with the Cubs taking this big of a step forward next season and losing in the play-in game, but it would depend on how they did it.

    Sign a couple veterans, hire a new manager, and have some internal options take a step forward, but lose in the first game? Absolutely…fans would be excited about the Cubs again and things would look great heading into 2015 with more young players arriving to supplement a playoff quality roster.

    But if the Cubs trade multiple top prospects for veterans and sign older players to big money deals, then I would be hoping for more than a one game WC appearance. Doing that sets back any real building progress and makes the past two years of suffering pointless.

  • CubFan Paul

    That’s not a man cave, it’s a bar. I have two tvs and two cable feeds in my living room but that man-cave is over the top.

  • cavemencubbie

    I hate being negative but our Cubbies will never when a playoff spot, let alone a WS until the s**t hole that is Wrigley is renovated, torn down or moved. It has to be frustrating for major league ballplayers, either young or old, to have had better facilities in the minors. I was positively envious of the Pirates playground the other night. Wrigley Feld is worn out, decrepit (like me) and no longer even pretty.

    • cubfanincardinalland

      I watched that game and had the thought of how amazing what could be for the Cubs, in new digs.

  • Edward

    Really don’t like the current playoffs. One game playoff after a 162 game regular season? That makes zero sense. Next commissioner’s first task:

    - Balanced (within division), 154 game regular season
    - 12 teams make playoffs
    - Top two seeds get byes – seeding determined by overall record so a wildcard can be seeded higher than a division winner
    - First round best-of-five, remaining rounds best-of-seven

    I’d like 12 teams in the playoffs but

    • Edward

      Ignore that last line – need an edit button

    • BlameHendry

      12 teams in the playoffs is just too much IMO… I personally would rather just get rid of that second wild card honestly.

      with 6 playoff teams in each league, you’ll start out october with 3 matchups. When that’s over, you have 3 winners. How do you handle that? Put a NL team against an AL team before the WS begins? And again you are left with 3 total winners between the two leagues. I don’t know of a good way to coordinate all that while keeping all teams playing and not keeping one or more teams sitting around gathering rust for a week.

      • On The Farm

        I like how the MLB needed to add the second wild card to make it more fair for the team that just misses out on the playoffs. So we gave them a one game playoff, win and you’re in. But even that might not be enough anymore. I hear radio hosts talking saying that maybe they should go to a best of three series. I even heard one guy this morning say that our own Theo Epstein suggested a day/night double header, and if one team doesn’t sweep the double header, they head to the other team’s town to play.

        Just seems silly to me that we added the ‘win you’re in’ round, and a year later its not enough.

        • Edward

          It was dumb last year too. Screws the top wildcard team.

          • Kyle

            Then they should have won their division.

            • On The Farm

              ding ding ding

          • On The Farm

            I think the extra Wild card game is almost leveling the playing field. If the Rays didn’t have to play game 163, Price would have to pitch last night. That means going into the division series the wild card team would be without their ace. I feel like a the team who has the best record (in other words they have been winning consistently all season long, and the Wild Card team has been winning, but just on a more recent basis). It puts the wild card at a disadvantage without their ace and rewards the MLB’s best record because they have a chance to take the first few games without facing the other teams ace.

            I don’t think the WC teams deserve a best of three series.

          • hansman1982

            “Screws the top wildcard team.”

            Good. Back in my day, we didn’t have playoffs. The best teams just duked it out for who was the winner!

        • Norm

          “I like how the MLB needed to add the second wild card to make it more fair for the team that just misses out on the playoffs. So we gave them a one game playoff, win and you’re in.”
          -
          There are still teams that just miss out on the playoffs, so should they add another play in game for them?

          • On The Farm

            If you read the very next sentence, you would be able to determine the intent of the one you quoted. Also, the very last line of my post reads “Just seems silly to me that we added the ‘win you’re in’ round, and a year later its not enough.”.

            • Norm

              I understand your intent, but the purpose of adding a play in game had nothing to do with making it more fair and everything to do with being a money grab.

      • Edward
        • On The Farm

          Some teams don’t want that time off between rounds. Wasn’t it the year the Rockies played Boston in the World Series they said something tp that effect. The Rockies won 21 of 22 games, they won game 163, swept the NLDS and NLCS. Meanwhile the Redsox went 7 games in the ALCS, and the Rockies who were in a rhythm got swept in four games by the Sox. If my team is cruising along in September (because we all know in any sport its all about your momentum at the end of the season), and I have to take a bye week to wait for my next opponent, I am almost at a disadvantage.

          Just my take on it.

          • Edward

            I think I have read that statistically there actually isn’t much there to back that up (not 100% sure), but you do hear people complain about it every time they lose. I think 100% of managers and GM’s would take a bye and rest their starters rather than risk losing in first round.

            In the NL we would have Pirates vs. Nats and Dodgers vs. Reds in the first round with St. Louis and Atlanta getting byes. In the AL we would have Tigers vs. Rangers and Indians vs. Rays with Boston and Oakland getting byes.

            Wouldn’t you rather have that than the current scenario?

            • Chad

              Not in baseball they wouldn’t. That’s why pitchers are kept on a throwing program and you don’t skip guys in your rotation unless you absolutely have to. You don’t just rush guys back from the DL like you might in football. Baseball is a game of rhythm and repetition. Days off don’t bode well for baseball.

              And no I don’t like your format even it was a 1 game series. I really don’t like it if is a 3 or 5 game series for the reasons above. I don’t even like the 1 game play in but it could be much worse I guess.

  • TSB

    RE: the “racist” name Washington Redskins; if you say the name Redskins to a sports fan, they will no doubt think of a football player (though not a very good one) and not an Apache Indian. Same goes for the Cubs; baseball players come to mind, not little baby bears on the North Side…

    • ssckelley

      Same, I never knew these sports teams were racist until someone told me they were.

      • Norm

        That’s because the white man has killed off enough of the population it offends so you don’t hear any one screaming it’s offensive.

  • AV

    Hey, I just met you…

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      And this is crazy.

      • On The Farm

        So here’s my number.

        • MichiganGoat

          So call me maybe?

          ****damn kids forcing me to learn and listen to song****

  • http://www.shadowsofwrigley.com TC

    For me, it would depend on how the Cubs got to that Wild Card Game loss. If they did what the Indians did (sign a couple of big Free Agents, work on building a really strong pen) then yeah, I think it would be great.

    But if they went about it like the Royals tried to (which would mean trading away Baez and other top, close to the majors prospects) to acquire a not-quite-ace, I don’t think I could ever be comfortable with it

  • baseballet

    Regarding tossing the Santo memorabilia in the dumpster, maybe the Cubs were just making room for the Aramis Ramirez memorabilia.

  • Funn Dave

    NLDS series–kind of redundant, don’t ya think?

    -BN Grammar Douche

  • Alex K

    U have to be a real fool to continue this…
    Brett hasn’t committed any crimes; and some people would like to continue reading their sports blog without accusations and such goofiness. Thanks for degrading a perfectly good comment thread! Please comment elsewhere, BN is too good for you, jackass.

    Alex K.

    • Alex K

      This was directed at PKJ, sorry folks.

  • Robert Johnson

    Telander’s article was right on! I lived in Ma during all of Theo’s years. What he didn’t mention was the big trade that was made in the fall of 2006 after Theo had resigned for a short period of time . The Trade was Hanley Ramirez & several prospects which included Anabal Sanchez to the Marlins for Josh Beckett & Mike Lowell. This trade helped the Red Six win the World Series in 2007 but may have hindered them in subsequent years.

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