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MoneyToday, the San Francisco Giants extended pitcher Tim Lincecum with a staggering two-year, $35 million contract.

It isn’t often than you can call any two year deal “staggering,” let alone one with just $35 million on the line. But, consider this: that $17.5 million annually would have made Lincecum the 10th highest-paid pitcher in baseball last year, and that includes three expiring contracts for guys who won’t make anything close to that next time around (Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, and Barry Zito). That means, come next year, Lincecum is a near lock to be among the 10 highest-paid pitchers in all of baseball. Top ten.

Factor in a reported no-trade clause, and this is a serious commitment by the Giants. What’s incredible is not just the makeup of the contract – it’s the fact that the Giants had to give Lincecum a no-trade clause in order to agree to a “mere” $35 million deal. Further, this is an extension. Lincecum hasn’t even reached free agency yet. That makes you wonder just what kind of deal the Giants were projecting Lincecum could have received on the open market.

That makes me wonder what the contracts are going to look like this offseason.

Although he rebounded somewhat this year from a 2012 season in which he could have justifiably been called the worst starting pitcher in baseball (with more than 175 innings, at least), Lincecum was still worth just 1.6 wins in 2013. His 4.37 ERA was the worst of his career, outside of 2012, and the same is true of his 3.74 FIP and 3.56 xFIP. Worse, his K rate was the lowest of his career (tied with 2012), and his walk rate only improved slightly (9.0% versus 10.9%). His fastball velocity, which had dropped dramatically in 2012 to just 90.4 mph on average, stayed down, at 90.2 mph. Lincecum turns 30 next year, so it’s not like the velocity is likely to come back.

On the heels of his disastrous 2012 season, this is a guy who is worth $17.5 million per year and a no-trade clause? Sure, you can dream on what he once was, and perhaps he’s a marketing vehicle of particularized value to the Giants, but I can’t wrap my head around this contract.

Unless, of course, salaries are going to take another dramatic step forward this offseason. If so, it doesn’t bode well for a Cubs front office that was already expected to take the conservative route.

  • Jim

    Gotta say, I’m floored. If this sets the market standard, this is going to really handcuff a lot of teams, Cubs included..

    • Brains

      It’ll handcuff the team only because the owners are unwilling to invest revenues into the team. They’ll have the money ready at hand.

  • CGruegs45

    Signing Can will allow all of their prospects to ease in without any pressure. Also, Cano speaks Spanish amd can be a good role model for the Latin Prospects. #2015muthafu*****

  • Cerambam

    The cubs will take a conservative approach, yes, but it is always going to have to be a RELATIVELY conservative approach. So, the actual value of these contracts is less important.

    So if rebound 3/4 starters are achieving 17 MM AAV, then the cubs will be conservative and offer similiar players or lesser players like 13 MM (which is higher than it has historically been).

    Does this make sense?

    • CGruegs45

      No not really. #buzzkill

      • Cerambam

        Well it’s essentially aleady true. The cubs have been offering conservative contracts with under 10 M AAV to players over the last several offseasons. These contracts would be monsterous 15 years ago. So, unless you plan on refuting what I said, offer more than a one word answer.

  • Jon

    Last week I said on here the most I would give him was 2 years 8 million, I figured a team or two would be stupid and offer 10 million a year. Never did I think 17. Are some of these GMs high on drugs ?

    • CGruegs45

      Yeah probably. #MLBkush #GimmeSomeO’Dat

    • Blackhawks1963

      The Giants know what they have in Lincecum better than anybody else. And they are a perpetually smart organization who knows pitching and has won 2 World Series of late. Have to trust their judgment, plus they must have thought the bidding would have gone even higher once he hit the open market.

      Somewhere Tanaka and his agent are smiling. Ditto the asshat Garza. Going to be a crazy offseason market for pitchers !

      • Jon

        Well, the problem with your theory is that Lincecum sucks now

        • Blackhawks1963

          That’s your opinion. I trust the astute judgment of Brian Sabean, Bruce Bochy and Dave Righetti thank you very much.

          • mjhurdle

            actually, that is not opinion. Lincecum has not been good the last two years. That is verified by looking at his performances.
            Now, whether he rebounds or not, that is an opinion.

    • Voice of Reason

      Dude I said that we would be lucky to get him for $8 million for one year.

      If lincecum is worth that much then what’s a left handed David price when had arm trouble doing to ask for under his contract extension?
      $100 million for 5 years?

      What is Garza worth? $100 million for 4 years?

      • Blackhawks1963

        If Price checks out medically be will have little problem getting a $140 M plus contract.

        • Voice of Reason

          For seven years

    • BlameHendry

      Tim probably gave the Giant’s GM a little bit of his kush while negotiating the contract. ;)

    • cub2014

      i am probably late but, WOW!! 17m a year
      for Lincecum.

  • YourResidentJag

    Like Rob Neyer said in his tweet(and I’m paraphrasing here): “I thought it was October. I didn’t realize it was April Fools Day.”

  • Dumpgobbler

    Oh my 35 over 2 fore Lincecum? Who is his agent?

  • Westmalle

    If Lincecum’s contract is market setting, this makes EJax contract a bargain, does it not? If he has a good first half, he becomes an eminently flippable asset, right?

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      Sure looks like it. Of course, he’s actually got to pitch well for that to matter.

      And, in any case, I don’t see the Cubs flipping him if he’s pitching well.

      • DarthHater

        Perhaps, but if Lincecum’s contract is market-setting, doesn’t that also mean that Samardzija’s extension demands are going to be outta sight?

    • baldtaxguy

      Thought of the same – one year removed from the Jackson contract is an interesting comparison. It is difficult to even consider Lincecum’s deal a “home team discount” but I would not have been surprised the Giants annonded a deal that would have been half of this amount. Crazy dollars.

      • baldtaxguy

        *if the Giants announced*

  • Cerambam

    I definitely do not think this will happen, nor do I particularly want it to, but let’s examine the benefits of signing cano (compared to the obvious negatives).

    If we sign cano, we can then trade prospects that won’t be as likely to emerge within the next few years (which also coincide with the most valuable of Cano’s years) or won’t likely have an open spot. Moving prospects like Almora, Vogs, alcantara, villanueava will likely bring back at least one high impact talent. Coinciding that return with the Cano signing, the emergence of Bryant, Baez and (very hopefully) Soler, the presence of Rizzo, and the hopeful return to form of Castro and you can see a potential contender start to form.

    Of course, this relies on so many ifs that is unlikely and probably not the front offices plan. My point only is, if the cubs did sign cano, it could open the door to a shorter, but sooner, window of competitiveness through tangential moves

  • MichiganGoat

    Cano has got to be loving this signing.

    • DocPeterWimsey

      Indeed, he’s probably already lighting a cigar with an Action Comics #1….

      • Oswego chris

        Nice Simpson’s reference

  • MichiganGoat

    So does this make EJax’s contract look like a better deal?

    • YourResidentJag

      To a team like the Nationals where he pitched in 2012 and that teamwas expected to contend in 2013. ABSOLUTELY.

    • Voice of Reason

      Depends on how the bum pitches next year.

      If he has a year similar to this year he isn’t worth anything.

      • Timothy Scarbrough

        Edwin Jackson was worth almost half a win more then Tim Lincecum last year, and almost a win and half more the year before that.

        • MichiganGoat

          If this is the direction pitching contracts are headed then EJax is looking like a good deal. It will be interesting to see how the Arroyos are going to get this offseason.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      Great point. Yes – it looks quite good right now, especially given the fact that it was, essentially, front-loaded.

      • MichiganGoat

        EJax 3.79 FIP, Timmy 3.74 FIP – looking really makes either EJax as a decent deal or the Freak’s deal is horrible.

      • caryatid62

        It also makes all the chicken little-ing about the possibility over “overpaying” a free agent like Choo this offseason seem a bit ridiculous, too.

    • BlameHendry

      better? if anything I think EJax’s contract set the tone for The Freak’s contract. $13M per year for Jackson’s performance is pretty much the same ratio as $17.5M per year for Lincecum’s performance. Both were equally overpaid.

      Gotta consider that Lincecum still has a superstar past and baseball romantics simply can’t let that go. They will always hang on to that false hope that a fallen player can return to their previous form on the flip of a dime. Realists will see that Lincecum will never again be who he used to be, but others will continue to believe that if a player was at one time a superstar, there’s a chance he can be one again. The Giant’s GM falls into the latter category.

      • Voice of Reason

        What does that make our g.m. who overpaid for Jackson and is a pitcher who never came close to lincecums past?

        • mjhurdle

          our GM is a pitcher that never came close to Lincecum’s past? i never knew that. :)

        • Timothy Scarbrough

          You don’t pay for what Tim Lincecum did 3 years ago, you pay for what he will do the next two years.

          • Pat

            Please, please, please, stop repeating this line of bullshit. Since you don’t ever know what a player will do in the next few years, you pay them off a forward projection based on what they have done the past few years. Without exception. The only way to avoid that is to never sign a free agent,

            • Tony_S

              Mmmm, I think you’re kinda both saying the same thing, you just used more words (and decided to be a dick about it ;).

              The whole point of scouting, and advanced metrics and computer programs with fancy names and magic 8 balls is figuring out those next years (vice previous performance, which, if a complete/infallible predictor of future performance, then we could ALL tell the future).

              The point in this particular case is, 2/35 for Lincecum defies common logic, based on his age, presumed lack of PED usage, and his performance the last two years. There are only 2 real assumptions one can make: either SF made a colossal mistake here (such as, I don’t know, not watching Lincecum pitch the last two years, or not buying a baseball card with his picture on it… Seems improbable) OR there is something about Lincecum that, in their eyes, justifies the payout, and this is presumably something we don’t see as “average” fans, and they do with their nigh infinitely higher priced 8 balls.

              Another interesting point is that Lincecum has always been a bit of an anomaly, with his small frame and a relatively violent delivery (based on conventional wisdom); there has been much written that, essentially, SF was smart not to tinker with him. Whether that somehow portends a return to glory is unlikely in my mind, but who knows? In theory, they do, and that’s why they (over-?) paid him.

              It will most likely keep the casual fan base happy, and butts in seats.

              The effects on the market remain to be seen, both in free agency and in arbitration; agents will see dollar signs, but this contract is (again) SO ludicrous as to be potentially disregarded out of hand as an outlier, and may have less effect than we may at first suspect. Also, teams can point to Lincecum’s (way) past performance as why they paid him.

              For everybody except you, Pat, I apologize for being so verbose, I would hope most or all of this didn’t need typing. But Pat… You earned it, Buddy.

              • Pat

                We weren’t saying the same thing at all. My only point was that Theo’s “we’re not going to pay for past performance” line that you often see quoted as gospel around here is simply a line of meaningless crap.

                Maybe Lincicum gets as much on the open market, maybe he doesn’t. If I have to give the benefit of the doubt to someone at this point, it will be the guy with a couple of championships in the last few years.

            • Timothy Scarbrough

              Of course you don’t KNOW what he will do over the next couple of years, but you spend millions of dollars of years paying people to predict what he will do over the next couple of years, and pay him accordingly.

        • MichiganGoat

          You could argue that or it could be that the FO predicted a great uptick in mediocre pitcher contracts and got a reliable innings eater for below what the market was heading toward.

          • Turn Two

            I think this is the ejax key. They knew we were heading into a youth movement with young arms that will need to grow into roles. Ejax is no matter what going to throw his innings and he well be decent all year. This will save us in the long run from rushing arms etc like 2012. Her was a fairly expensive, but ultimately fairly economical insurance policy that will be what he will be.

  • Andrew

    Makes no sense to me why they wouldnt just give him the QO, it seems like he probably would have accepted it.

    The fangraphs crowd sourcing contract project was actually not too far off on his contract though. The fangraphs survey had him at about 3 years 40 million.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangraphs-crowd-the-top-47-free-agents/

  • Cubswin

    Soler done in AFL due to “residency issues.” That sucks, he needed the reps more than anyone probably

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      “Done” or out for a few days? Rogers said it was the latter.

      • http://www.rotochamp.com RotoChamp

        It says he’ll be back Thurs or Fri

      • The Show

        I heard the same from Rogers as well. He said he should be back by the end of the week,

    • fortyonenorth

      Unless the AFL is playing in Canada, I don’t understand why there are “residency issues” at this stage of the game. Shouldn’t the Cubs be troubleshooting this stuff?

  • Jono

    Id rather the cubs not get Cano for the reason Epstein and hoyer talked about staying away from those kinds of signings. But if they did, id smile and very excited.

    • Jono

      *and be very excited

  • mjhurdle

    amazing to think that a guy with a cumulative -2.3 WAR in the last 2 years can command this kind of deal. Either the Giants are geniuses for seeing something most don’t, or they just went bonkers.

  • http://www.rotochamp.com RotoChamp

    If I were the Cubs I would be focusing on short-term contracts (max 2 years) and would target the following players, who I think will be good value and flippable):

    Chris Capuano (underrated, solid Feldman-like peripherals)
    Dan Haren (looking pricier after Lincecum deal)
    Josh Johnson (rolling the dice)

    David Murphy (we don’t need LH bats, but they are valuable come the trade deadline)
    Corey Hart

  • Kyle

    There was a rumor today that the Phillies’ new TV deal could be like $250m a year or something starting next year. Count on people flipping out on “overpays” for just about every contract from now on. It’s more like the early 1990s now.

    • jt

      look for jim palmer to make a comeback

      • ssckelley

        Hopefully not doing underwear commercials.

  • Timothy Scarbrough

    This seems to me a lot like the Barry Zito 2007 contract, where a team (The Giants) decided to pay for a Cy Young that had been won several years previously, in hopes that the pitcher would return to such levels.

    • Jon

      I personally think Sabaen is one of the worst GMs in the league. He’s gotten lucky with some great arms coming up and getting them a WS, but he’s made a ton of dumb moves

      • MichiganGoat

        I’ll gladly take two World Series championship for any amount of stupid.

        • Professor Snarks

          YEP….

      • Joey

        The guy traded Zack Wheeler straight up for 44 games of Carlos Beltran

        • Jon

          Exactly. He’s gotten lucky and that’s it. They are going to be bad for a while now cause of his moves

          • MichiganGoat

            All championship require a handful of luck, hell look at the shitbirds they are in the World Series with a handful of “Who the F*** is that” players that have exceeded expectations.

          • caryatid62

            He’s been the GM for 17 years. They’ve been above .500 12 of those years, been to the playoffs 6 of those years, and won 2 World Series. If he’s “one of the worst GMs in the league,” I’d take that.

      • Jono

        Whats better, to be good or lucky?

      • Voice of Reason

        The guy has won two world series. I wish we had a stupid g.m. who would win two of them for us.

      • Blublud

        Wow, if Sabean is one of the worse, then Theo with his 2 world Series “Cups” is right there with him. Who new a bad GM could put together a WS team.

  • Jesse

    Next step for them I to give Barry zito a 4 year 40 mill contract with a player option.

  • http://www.survivingthalia.com Mike Taylor (no relation)

    I bet Lincecum’s jersey is their top-seller. Only thing I could come up with for this.

  • Dustin S

    This tends to happen a lot it seems where a player a team is/was enamored with overpays, even after every sign in the book points to a player who won’t ever match their performance from a few years ago. It’d be a good thing on a list of moves to avoid if there were a college GM 101 class.

    I’m sure with Lincecum there is a big marketing factor, lots of jerseys and maybe some advertising dollars factor into it. But I have to wonder, are the Giants really going to make that difference in his “real” value where his contract should be in marketing? I’m sure an agent could make the math come out like a win for the team, but It feels like a stretch.

  • cubsin

    I think Theo and Jed’s chances of extending Samardzijah just got a lot slimmer.

    • Professor Snarks

      This could be a good thing….

  • Die hard

    Well Tidrows mustache must’ve curled up in three different directions as I’m sure he was the one NO vote meaning he’s probably ready to bolt and would make great asst to Theo- memo to Theo — make the call

    • Andrew

      don’t get us all excited for nothing Diehard

  • Blackhawks1963

    The Giants know more about Lincecum by far versus anybody else. They obviously see enough in Lincecum to make this deal BEFORE he could even hit the open market. Sabean, Bochy and Righetti are outstanding in what they do. And have 2 World Series rings to prove it. I strongly give them the benefit of the doubt on Lincecum’s new deal.

    And now I see where the rumor mill is turning that they will aggressively go after Choo.

    • The Dude

      Even if they see enough to believe Lincecum will provide good value over this contract, they could’ve offered him a qualifying off, no?

    • Andrew

      I don’t know what the Giants payroll situation is like, but they just gave out big contracts to pence and Lincecum. I don’t think I would count on them being big on Choo.

  • Eternal Pessimist

    Interesting that some are talking about trading some young prospects for the high-end talent they cannot afford otherwise…I think this type of ridiculous contract reinforces the fact that the Cubs should hand onto all their young talent as their cost per WAR will be a fraction of the top tier free-agent market, and with their “low” payroll they just won’t be able to compete on price with the big boys.

    • YourResidentJag

      I think that’s something they just may do.

  • cubs2003

    The Lincecum contract reinforces my faith in the current plan. Build the hell out of the farm system however you have to and use your farm as to build from or as bargaining chips rather than paying that kind of money to free agents that aren’t even all that good at this point. The Cubs are still a ways away, but I don’t see a magic fix. It sure sucks to wait. I’m all ears to ideas. I see big time free agents as hurting the process more than helping it for a team in the Cubs position.

    • YourResidentJag

      I wonder if Lincecum is just the Giants mistake as far as a big $$ deal. I think we’ll have to wait and see. What does that mean? It means passing on guys like Ellsbury, Cano, and Choo and seeing how market values play out for them. And striking then to nab a second tier guy. Again, I’ll reinforce the idea that Granderson, coming off a down yr is a second tier FA. If the price is right, the Cubs have to discuss contract with his agent. For everyone saying the Cubs will then be too LH next yr, this team can never be too LH because of all the RH product coming through the system in the coming yrs. The Granderson signing isn’t so much about now but also 2015 and 2016. That’s when you won’t see the likes of at least Schierholtz on the team. And Sweeney’s role will be limited, but then again it probably will be anyway.

      • Professor Snarks

        If you get the pre-2013 Granderson, you get a guy who hit a ton of HR’s into the short porch at Yankee stadium, who has had sub-par avg/OBP the last five years. We need OBP, and yes, better average from our players, including any FA signings.

        • YourResidentJag

          I’ll take avg OBP for the trade off of power. I still think he can hit for power outside of Yankee Stadium. I also think Choo has proven difficencies hitting against LHP and Ellsbury is too much an injury risk. We should also have guys who hit for greater OBP, like Almora, Rizzo, and I think Bryant as well.

  • Jason

    This is just getting crazy. These owners are horrible. Hopefully the Cubs don’t get Cano. He’s going to want 8-10 years for god who knows how much. We need to build this team on pitching and more pitching. They should have enough hitting coming up real soon. The only hitter I would go after would be Ellsbury but for only 3 year contract.

    • TOOT

      No way Cubs try to get Cano. Don’t know who started that rumor. But not happening.

    • Brains

      This is the only posting board where fans actively root against the team getting better. You guys aren’t excited about anyone and you put all of your faith in some 19 year olds, which if history is any indication, largely wont pan out. That leaves us with nothing, and you guys with your fantasy baseball fantasies. Of course we should get Cano, within reason. The owners have the money, we need the bat, and he’d bring much-needed veteran experience to the lineup.

      • Cubbie Blues

        Nobody here has ever said we shouldn’t get Cano “within reason”. The problem is he won’t be “within reason”.

        In addition, *everybody* here wants the Cubs to get better. Just because some of us agree with the way the new FO is going about making them better doesn’t mean we *root* against the team getting better. I don’t even know why I am responding to you since you have admitted, a few times, in the past that you are just trolling.

        • Brains

          You respond because I make persuasively acute points, stated with rhetorical finesse. And I’m not so sure people want to “get better”. What they want is some kind of ideological purity by which the team gets better under some kind of magical terms that saves money and cheats the usual workings of the system. Everything that fits outside of that box is rejected as impossible, impure, or unfit for the rebuild.

          A rebuild means signing veteran players. And you might be right about Cano being too ridiculous. I’ll agree with you every step of the way when he demands 300m even when no one will pay it. But until he has resolutely priced himself out of reason, he should be on the list. Very high on the list.

          • MichiganGoat

            If using hyperbole and baiting is your definition of “persuasively acute points, stated with rhetorical finesse” then either you are really bad at satire or you’ve been poorly educated. I hope it is the former. Regardless your die hard impression has been found lacking, but I’m sure you will keep trying and keep failing.

            ***cue the same goats on cliff response*** because its such a great rhetorical device.

            • Brains

              hah, you’re alright michigan goat. you’re alright.

              • Scott

                If you think Cubs fans don’t want the team to get better.. Well, then I’m just not sure what to tell you. Fans want their favorite team to suck? Ok, guess I’m just not sure where you’re coming from on that one.

                • MichiganGoat

                  Scott he’s trolling and baiting, nothing more needs to be said to him.

                  • YourResidentJag

                    Huh, and yet I get the ideological purity argument. So, if that argument resonates with SOME of us? Is it baiting? Or are you trying to bait by constantly respond to him and telling others how to frame his comments? I’d conclude a lot of both.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Well it takes a village… you should start a commune and blog with him.

                    • DarthHater

                      Now Lou’s re-framing my view of the Goat. Crap. :-P

                    • YourResidentJag

                      So, you’re continuing to bait and draw out by responding….hmmm…interesting.

                    • YourResidentJag

                      @Darth….no you like his comments. C’mon, admit it? ;)

                    • DarthHater

                      Goats are passive-aggressive creatures by nature, Lou. It’s in his (CIA-altered-mutant) genes. ;-)

                  • MattM

                    I would argue that YOU Michigan Goat are the troll. You pile on people and when they don’t take your arguements (which usually aren’t good anyway) then you try to place them in a neat little box with your ridiculous labels.

                    Then on top of that you start talking about beer. Is that your go to defence when a conversation does not go your way. So in the bar you work at or janitor’s floor when you have disagreements on your work do you just automatically go to talking about beer?

                • Kyle

                  I think Cubs fans are enjoying the easiness of rooting for prospects. If your only goal is to see the minor leagues get better, well that’s pretty much always going to happen. There’s no disappointment like there is when you “go for it” and fail.

                  • SH

                    +1…”potential” is always more exciting than actual — in part because we can imagine everyone’s ceiling and how we have four future MVP players blossoming in front of us; in part because we aren’t following the day-in/day-out, which tends to make even quite good players less thrilling.

                    Have to admit, though — it is fun to have a really good farm system! Wish we had an at least watchable pro team to go with it.

                  • jt

                    Sans trades the parent club could see Lake and Vitters as the RHS of OF platoons at season start.
                    By the AS break Bryant, Baez, Alcantara and Hendricks could be on the consideration docket.
                    Add Rizzo, Castro, Castillo, Parker and a couple other BP arms to get a Cubs team vastly populated by young talent in the very near future.
                    That is seems tangible.

                • Brains

                  I think some fans want some kind of trial by fire purity. It’s not worth it unless it’s done the way that was stated during the catharsis of hiring Theo. They put so much emotional investment into this one vision, that isn’t coming close to working thanks to the owners keeping Theo’s vision from working, that they spend all day attacking anyone who wants to see the team win on normal terms. Of course it can’t work if you don’t invest in talent, so the emotional indignation level rises and rises, and soon they start lashing out at anyone who disagrees. Then in response I pick on michigangoat, who I think actually has some degree of irony to him that most don’t pick up on. I think he’s mostly having fun.

          • DarthHater

            “I make acutely pointed persiflage, stated with a thesaurus.”

            FTFY

        • MichiganGoat

          “I don’t even know why I am responding to you since you have admitted, a few times, in the past that you are just trolling.”

          Yeah but sometimes its a good thing to call out the BS he spews, even if it likely feeds him but we can hope that this bad attempt at satire will become as tiresome to Brains as it is to everyone else.

          • Brains

            Just for the record, I make amazing points all day long while you attack people for making amazing points.

            • MichiganGoat

              Ah more bait and hyperbole… still need some more work on the satire.

              • MattM

                It’s not bait it’s truth. You have no life and live on this “forum” with your “forum” “friends.” Then when you or one of your “friends,” comes under scrutiny with what they are saying you pile on and attack people.

                Truthfully, it does get annoying. That’s not to say that sometimes you don’t have good points but lets be honest….what brains is saying isn’t entirely untrue. People really do what some sort of “Moneyball” event to happen to this time so that it would be “pure.”

                Just because he or someone else come in here and disagrees with the “only build from with in” attitude that most of you regulars seem to have they are marked as trolls etc.

                • mjhurdle

                  “Just because he or someone else come in here and disagrees with the “only build from with in” attitude that most of you regulars seem to have they are marked as trolls etc.”

                  or…it could also be due to the fact that he makes stuff up, admits to being a troll, and admits to deliberately making posts to incite people.

                  but don’t let that get in the way of your rant. I really love the part where you attack someone because you feel they attack other people.

                  • Brains

                    I admit to playing the game under the rules that you guys set for it. But I repeatedly make good points framed in a way to get people like goat to respond. In truth I enjoy it, and I think he does too. He calls it baiting because I’m speaking indirectly to him and those similar to him. Y’all just gotta stand your ground and find creative ways to make your argument, which includes hyperbole sometimes.

                    • Brains

                      If repeating certain points over and over again is called trolling by some, btw, I could see it. I call it sticking to the message. It’s the same thing the Theo-lovers do, and its the same thing the FO do. If it irritates optimists because there are cracks in the hull, so be it.

  • jt

    Freak tossed a no hitter on July 13 which took 148 pitches. He then had 9 days off but gave up 8 ER’s in only 3.1 IP on July 22. I’m thinking that Sabean gave Lincecum a mulligan for that start.
    What we do not know? Lincecum had a horrible month of May. Why? Was there something with his health, emotions, delivery? We don’t know!
    What is known is that sans the month of May along with ignoring the mulligan, Lincecum had 25 starts in which he averaged 6.3 IP per with a 3.57 ERA. If Sabean believes this is what his former Cy guy has to offer over the next 2 years then he offers $35M/2yr.
    It seems the Giants are satisfied that what ever was wrong in May has been fixed.
    Well, what about 2012?
    The 2nd half of 2012 Freak had 15 starts with 89.3 IP and an ERA of 3.83. Again, we don’t know what was wrong. Perhaps it was just an adjustment to decreased velo? May something else. But it seems that the Giants GM is satisfied that the problem has been fixed.
    *
    I really don’t think this is that much different than the signing of Peavy by the WS for 2013-14.

    • Blackhawks1963

      Again nobody knows Lincecum better than the Giants. Obviously they think this I a smart investment. They know more than anybody about his arm health, his fading velocity and his potential to reclaim what he was. And they obviously have calculated what they objectively think he can produce in 2014 and 2015 as part of determining their contract offer.

  • Coldneck

    This contract is definitely a head scratcher and will pull the market upwards a bit. However, I don’t think GMs are dumb enough to just pay other mediocre pitchers large sums of money because SF did Lincecum. I don’t think Arroyo will suddenly get a $15M contract because Lincecum is overpaid. This contract will have little effect on the top end of the the market because only a handful of teams are usually involved and Lincecum isn’t a comp for them anyways.

    • Edwin

      Agreed. One contract does not instantly set the market for the rest of baseball.

  • Curt

    Wth is going on if lincecum can get that what can others get is starting pitching so thin that pitchers that are avg or below avg can get this it’s scary bc what does this mean. For an extension for shark he’s been avg at best so what is avg worth these days.

  • Scott

    Either the Giants know something about Lincecum that we don’t, or we all know something about him that the Giants don’t.

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