Cardinals Lost 8-1 Last Night? Red Sox Were Probably Cheating

Jon Lester pitched very well last night, which isn’t entirely surprising, given that he’s a good pitcher. But was he a little too good last night?

Do you see anything suspicious in this video? Some folks do:

Hardball Talk has a write-up on the whispers, which includes a couple of pictures that may or may not show some odd substance inside Lester’s glove.

Here’s what I’ll say: I don’t know why Lester goes to the upper part of his glove so strangely in the video, and I don’t know what the substance is (or isn’t) in the pictures. But, in today’s age of high definition television, social media, and sports obsession, I can’t fathom that someone would be so stupid as to so obviously cheat in the World freaking Series. Sure, the upside is an enhanced performance on the highest stage, but the downside is infamy forever. And the chances of being caught are relatively high.

What are we left with? Probably a scuff mark on Lester’s glove, coupled with some hand motion that happens to hit the scuff mark (maybe that’s why it’s scuffed in the first place). And we’re also left with a Cardinals fan base that now has something to gripe about.

So at least there’s that.

Brett Taylor is the editor and lead writer at Bleacher Nation, and can also be found as Bleacher Nation on Twitter and on Facebook.

147 responses to “Cardinals Lost 8-1 Last Night? Red Sox Were Probably Cheating”

  1. Brains

    I hope the Cardinals lose forever.

    1. Rob

      Awe Brains, don’t be a hater. Just because your team doesn’t have 1/2 the history of the Cards. In fact your statement is bogus up front. They don’t lose forever and continue to get to the Series quite a bit. Go ahead and wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one comes up!

      1. King Jeff

        They come crawling out of the cracks every year. We need some kind of pest control around here.

        1. Duderino

          You could try using whatever has kept the Cubs out for 105 years.

      2. DarthHater

        “Awe Brains…”

        I agree to this extent: Brains is awe-inspiring :-P

  2. Rich

    Cards pitcher will not get out of the 5th tonight..
    My humble prediction.

    1. mjhurdle

      Wacha is a good pitcher, but I am with you on this. At some point he has to be human. A rookie with basically no minor league experience going on the run he has is just amazing, but has to end at some point.

      1. On The Farm

        Could you imagine if Wacha doesn’t get the job done tonight? Will everyone start questioning their first round picks if Kozma has a bad game one, and Wacha game two? It would at least go a long way in making them appear human.

  3. Fishin Phil

    All this whine, and no cheese to be found. :(

  4. Jake

    Or maybe he just hit his glove when taking his hand out of it…

  5. hansman

    It’s interesting that the vine video looks like a scuff mark while the photo posted looks like he has half of his glove covered in radioactive goo.

    Sounds like the Cards Way is being trained with great effectiveness in the minors.

  6. Cubbie Blues
    1. mjhurdle

      awesome article

      1. Rachel

        Did you see when this article came out? I’m a Cardinal fan and not promoting things that were said back then. However, let’s stick to the subject and hand and stop trying to deflect it on to the other team. Just sayin.

        1. King Jeff

          The subject of that article is the same as the subject we are talking about. In that article there are several Cardinals pitchers who are advocating using a foreign substance on the baseball. Cardinals fans and media are now trying to accuse Jon Lester of using a foreign substance last night. I don’t see this as a deflection by anyone other than the team that lost last night and their fans that think it’s okay for their guys to doctor baseballs, but damn it if anyone else does it.

        2. Cubbie Blues

          What’s good for the goose and all. If they didn’t have a problem with it back then, what would make it different now? I’m not even saying there *was* anything in his mit besides a scuff mark.

        3. mjhurdle

          not too mention the fact that the article contained quotes from the Cardinal pitcher who started last night.

          It isn’t like we went and dug up decade old Bob Gibson quotes.

    2. D-Rock

      This is great! Great ammunition to use toward our idiot cardinal friends.

    3. Cubbie Blues

      It looks like we crashed their site.

    4. Cubbie Blues

      The site is back up:
      “And then There’s Adam Wainwright’s interesting comment regarding the use of pine tar on the mound:

      “There’s a difference in pine tar from oil and grease””

      Kyle Lohse: “If you’re doing something to find a better grip, I don’t have an issue with that. I don’t think hitters would, either.”

    5. cubmig

      What? The deadbirds cheat? ….and the deadbirds trolls don’t know? Do they even know THEIR team’s history on that score? They must be too busy taking solace in bashing ours. They point one finger at us while four are pointing back at them.

      Ahhhhh……I LOVE the author’s last line: “No only do they look like cheaters, but hypocrites as well.” THAT line sums it all up.

  7. MichiganGoat

    Ah the Cardinal Way … cry, moan, complain, and slide with spikes up. Now the question is did Lester’s fingers cause those errors, bruise Beltran’s ribs, leave the bases loaded, and look completely outplayed? According to the Cardinal Way- HELL YEAH MORANS, GET A BRAIN!

    1. farmerjon

      They can have our “Brains” ; )

  8. tom

    Lester is forever labeled a cheater in my book. What a disgrace to the game. That’s right there with juicing. I’m not even a Cards fan but I would hope something is done about this moron.

    1. MichiganGoat

      That is so interesting, thank you for the insight.

    2. hansman

      Ummm…your beloved pitching staff doesn’t think that is cheating. Especially considering he was being so discreet about it.

  9. chrisfchi

    All I see are excuses for poor play last night. But its the cardinals, cry me a river.

  10. cubfanbob

    julian taverez ?

  11. tom

    Typical Cubs fans jumping on forums in October. Your team is beyond horrible. Pick a new sport. There are plenty of hobbies out there. It’s obvious Cubs fans never graduated past adolescence. lmao

    1. hansman


    2. MichiganGoat

      Tom is this you
      thanks for stopping by

      1. TWC

        Isn’t this the same “tom” that does occasional drive-by trolling about there not being enough (white) Americans playing baseball anymore?

    3. CubsFaninMS

      My favorite part of your comment is the irony of “Cubs fans never graduated past adolescence. lmao” Are you sure you are not ROTFLYAO?

    4. DarthHater

      “Typical Cubs fans jumping on forums in October.”

      And yet you come to a Cubs blog to post a comment about a Red Sox pitcher.

      1. Myles

        Was wondering this myself.

      2. cubmig

        Even Jesus agrees, but you gotta’ find Him in the crowded field…..


  12. Ken
  13. Blackhawks1963

    As a diehard Cub fan for decades, I have always found it bizarre that some Cub fans can mock the Cardinals. An organization that has won 11 World Series…an organization that does literally everything right…a team that has been to the World Series in 2004, 2006, 2011 and now 2013.

    For the love of God lets stop embarassing ourselves when it comes to “opinions” of the Cardinals. You can dislike them as a rival, but at the end of the day you have to respect what they accomplish and give them their props.

    1. King Jeff

      No, I don’t, and neither does anyone else. When you have arrogant players, arrogant managers, and extremely arrogant and condescending fans, I don’t care what you have done on the field, I’m not going to give props for being a dick while winning and whining while losing.(every freaking time they lose they have something to say or someone else to blame it on)

      1. Jono

        is that different than respecting the way the consistently put winners on the field? B/c I feel the same way about individual coaches/players/fans. I can’t stand them. But I do respect the organization as a whole for putting together teams that always compete

        1. King Jeff

          Yes, I respect the way the front office and coaching staff has developed their players and the way they play as a team, but that’s about it. I don’t have to give props, I don’t have to sing their praise, and I can have whatever opinon about them that I want. I also see no reason why I shouldn’t cheer against them, wherever they play and whoever they play against. I absolutely despise the “SEC” fanbases that have popped up all over sports. They are rivals, we hate them, they hate us. Right or wrong, I’m never going to cheer for them, I’m never going to give them an “attaboy”, and I’m never going to apologize for it, even if there are some sensitive types who are “embarrassed” by my loyalty to the Cubs and hate for the Cardinals.

          1. Jono

            I agree with every word of that.

          2. ssckelley

            I second this! I respect the organization but I do not give a damn about their fans and I hope they lose.

          3. Diamondrock

            Thirded. My feelings precisely.

          4. fraze

            “Yes, I respect the way the front office and coaching staff has developed their players and the way they play as a team, but that’s about it. I don’t have to give props…”

            Looks like you just gave them props in your first sentence.

          5. Cubbie Tim

            Go Arkansas Razorbacks

          6. scorecardpaul

            King Jeff, I agree. I especially don’t see the need for all of the playful humor about how the Cardinals are so great, on a site that is supposed to be about the Cubs. i guess I still haven’t figured out what it means to have one’s tongue in one’s cheek. To me it should be obvious that as a Cub fan, the cardinals in another world series should be enough pain for us to endure this week.

            1. pauliescorecard

              boo hoo

      2. mjhurdle

        exactly. I respect the Cardinal’s Front Office and some of the moves they make. But i don’t have to respect a manager that refuses to credit any other team, players that cry and whine about other teams while doing the exact same thing they are crying about, and especially the arrogant fans that act like somehow, because an organization they have no influence in does well, they are somehow better fans than everyone else.

    2. Jono

      The vast majority of Cubs fans do respect the cardinals organization and their ability to put winners together.

      1. Cubbie Blues

        Who have you been talking to? I suggest you find someone else to converse with if that is the crowd you hang around. Next thing you know you’ll start sporting a mullet.

        1. Jono

          You just scared me straight

          But seriously, I hate the cardinals as much as anyone. But I respect success.

    3. war

      Taking the point you made and let’s flip it I live in so illinois 60 miles from St. Louis everyday of the baseball season I have to listen to 100 plus years without winning a World Series. I see the ridiculous shirts like got ring? Or c in the cubs logo with entury next to it. Or how about the billboards on the interstate from Hardee’s to car dealerships mocking cubs and cubs fans. I think anyone with a bad oppinion of cards fans has a legitimate reason and in most cases is deserved. To have a discussion about the two teams is pointless it ends with who has more championships. My reply is what does that matter they can not play each other for anything other then the ncls but records wise against each other cubs hold edge in more wins. Last point I make is name me 5 players from the 82, 85, or 87 cards World Series teams not including Ozzie smith, Vince Coleman, or Willie McGee. So far only two have managed to be able to do it

      1. ssckelley

        Tommy Herr, Keith Hernandez, Jack Clark, John Tudor, and Andy Van Slyke are my five off the top of my head.

        Thanks, now I have to shower.

        1. war

          Lol don’t forget Daryl porter Bruce sitter terry penelton Todd worrell weird cubs fans know more about cards fans history

          1. ssckelley

            I did not forget, you said to name 5. I grew up in the 80s, I collected damn near every baseball card that existed during that time (an entire collection worth about a buck). I know these names not because I am obsessed with the Cardinals but because I am familiar with a lot of players from this time, on a lot of teams. Even though I am a life long Cubs fan the 1982 Brewers, who lost to the Cardinals, were one of my favorite teams. I can probably name more players on the 82 Brewers team than I can the 82 Cubs.

      2. Jim L

        I find it amusing that a fan base that has witnessed far more NL pennants and World Series champions get their panties in a bunch over the perennial big city losers. They have an inferiority complex far bigger than the south siders.

    4. cubmig

      sorry……..I am not in YOUR camp.

    5. Big Joe


  14. Jono

    I’m thinking about going out and getting a Red Sox hat. If they offer me a second time seeing the cardinals lose in the world series (maybe they beat the cards in a world series before 2004, I just didn’t see it), i’ll proudly consider them my second team.

  15. Curt

    F*** the cardinals wht a bunch of whiners heaven forbid they just got beat and they hve their biggest supporter announcing the games.

  16. King Jeff

    Wasn’t it Bronson Arroyo that they accused of cheating a few years ago? Yeah, there’s a pattern forming here.

  17. Internet Random

    The Cardinals Way: We win or something unfair is going on.

  18. mjhurdle

    Update on the STL media take on this:

    If the national media does not make a big story about this, it is because they are jealous they didn’t get the story first, and so they are going to “poo-poo” this as no big deal.

    1. Fishin Phil

      Even their media is a bunch of whiny crybabies.

  19. Jamie

    And David Ortiz took/takes/is taking injections in the arse. What else is hidden in all of those beards? Birds nests? Robin eggs?

  20. Bartman

    Hey, is it OK to come out of hiding now? I am sure I have been forgiven by now. Come on, I know those death threats were just you guys kidding around. Can we let bygones be bygones…. So what if the last time the Cubs were a “dynasty” was when we heard the double play combo of Tinkers to Evers to Chance.

  21. TC


    rabble rabble rabble rabble budweiser rabble rabble we miss you albert! rabble rabble rabble

  22. BigStick

    I will give you guys the benefit of the doubt that not all Cubs fans are as butthurt as you guys are (other than Blackhawks1963 who actually seems like a knowledgeable fan of the game). I won’t make excuses for the Cardinals piss poor performance last night, they played an awful game of baseball. But does that negate the fact that there is obviously something fishy about this? It is a foreign substance obviously, he is obviously putting it on his throwing fingers, and obviously trying to hide it. If this situation was flipped around Boston fans would be just as outraged, so would Cub fans if they were in this situation. I seem to recall a certain city threatening a fan and running him out of a city over a missed foul ball.

    Truth is that maybe this doesn’t change anything but maybe it does. Fact of the matter is that what he was doing looks blatantly illegal and he has now been caught. I am not expecting them to replay game 1 because of this, but I do want investigation by the MLB and if evidence is found that he was cheating then I want to see disciplinary action.

    Just my thoughts, so back to your guys butthurt Cardinal envy.

    1. TC

      I think a lot of us just understand that a bit of pine tar is a pretty common thing for a pitcher to use, especially on a cold night. prevents blistering and allows a pitcher to grip the ball.

      Btw, Waino and Matheny have both said it’s not a problem, Waino specifically saying that lots of pitchers use this stuff. If my ace pitcher said that, I’d shut up

      1. King Jeff

        That was a very composed response to a post that didn’t deserve one. Nicely done TC.

      2. BigStick

        Oh I forgot that Wainwright and Matheny are the commissioners of baseball. Other than the rule book says NO foreign substance may be put on ball or hand of a pitcher, a pitcher cannot even bring his hand to his mouth (Section 8.02 of the official MLB rulebook). Pine tar is illegal and using it on a cold night to help grip the ball is illegal, you play with the conditions you are in.

        I will never understand the stance on juicers being hung because they are cheating. But then have the outlook, oh this happens all the time so it’s not a big deal. Well then steroids weren’t a big deal either because oh it happens all the time.

        1. mjhurdle

          Rule 8.02 of The Official Rules of Baseball:
          ” The pitcher shall not —
          (a) (1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber. EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand.

          Why is it not surprising to me that you choose only the part of the rule that supported your argument, and not the exception? #BestFansInBaseball

    2. Bartman

      Amen to you BigStick, so true. I have had some great times at a Cubs/Cards game at Wrigley and was at the game where Ryno hit those 2 homeruns off of Sutter. Why he is not the Cubs Manager is a damn shame…. And another shame, how do the Cubs “accindentally” throw out Ron Santo’s stuff? Thank God it was found before it ended at the dump. I believe that is a reflection of who is running things there….

      By the way, So is it OK if I come back? The winters here are great, but I do miss my Cubs.

  23. cub1

    This stuff happens all the time. Why should we be surprised by it in the world series? If anything, players have more of an incentive to doctor the ball in big games like this. Plus, if they are caught they are not held in such a negative light as the juicers. In fact, I think a lot of people like it because it reminds them of an older generation. Baseball players have been cheating since the beginning, only the methods have changed. For whatever reason, this seems to be a relatively more acceptable way to gain an unfair advantage.

  24. fraze

    To me, the Cardinals are the Patriots of MLB:

    -Whiny head coach (with Larussa, not as much with Matheny.)
    -The ability to plug in young talent and not miss a beat (Cassel for Brady, pitchers and middle infielders.)
    -Righteous fans that feel that their team is “doing it the right way.”
    -Taking advantage of every opportunity to win, but complaining when other teams do the same (Larussa’s and Baker’s argument over stealing signs, Spygate.)

    But, saying all that, I am still jealous of their ability to win with young talent. They only have 7 players on this team that were on the Championship team in 2011. Amazing.

  25. Noah_I

    And why would Lester start going to a substance in the 7th inning, when he hadn’t allowed a base runner since the 5th and his team was winning by a near unsurmountable lead? It’s Cardinal fans looking for an excuse instead of just saying “hey, our team played a shit game and the Red Sox played a pretty good game. Odds are we don’t have a game where we play that terribly for the rest of the Series.”

  26. cubfanincardinalland

    If anybody had Vaseline on his glove last night, I would say it was Pete Kozma.

    1. mjhurdle

      lol, well played sir

  27. Baller18

    I think it’s funny that the fans of the cubs and Red Sox (two of the worse baseball teams in history) are the ones on here running their mouth!! Everyone in America knows the only reason Boston is even in the World Series is because of big money buying them games! And the cubs shouldn’t even be allowed on the same field with the Cardinals or be allowed to call themselves a major league team. The cubs are a DISGRACE to the game of baseball!!

    1. Cubbie Blues

      Well, it is a Cubs blog.

    2. King Jeff

      I was under the impression that the Cards fans were the ones all over the place running their mouths(on sites of other teams fans) bitching and moaning about something that their own pitcher admittedly do.

      1. DarthHater

        Why, whatever could have given you that impression?

    3. On The Farm

      Big money buying them games? Like their second round pick who tossed 7+ scoreless innings last night. Or David Ortiz who has been on the team since 2003? Or how one of the best players on their team, Dustin Pedroia, was also a second round pick? How about their leadoff hitter who was a first round pick who seems to be doing the most damage of getting on base throughout the playoffs.Sure they sign their share of free agents, but the key players of the last two WS berths have been home grown.

      If only the Red Sox could be like the Cardinals and draft and develop their best Post season hitter and pitcher. Wait a minute, Wainwright was a Braves 1st round pick and Beltran was a free agent signing. Come to think of it, that Matt Holiday guy who scored a run last night for the Cards wasn’t a home grown player either. How quickly people forget that the Cards have two hitters that aren’t homegrown, but are very integral to their offense.

    4. DarthHater

      I think it’s funny that you exist.

    5. Fishin Phil

      ” (two of the worse baseball teams in history)”

      You are a disgrace to English teachers everywhere. Go run a comb through your mullet.

    6. hansman

      Well said good sir! I say, Lincoln and Douglas would be proud!

      [slow clap gif]

      1. DarthHater


  28. Mike

    I like the score, I just wish it was wrought upon the Card by a more likable team.

  29. Blackhawks1963

    I used to travel to St. Louis on business very heavily for 3 years. And I was invited and attended multiple games at the old and new Busch Stadium. While EVERY team has its share of asshats, I must say Cardinal fans always treated Cub fans I saw in attendance with respect. And I will also say this….there is no bigger baseball city in this country than St. Louis. You come across people of all ages, genders, etc. in St. Louis who know their friggin baseball. In the office I used to visit in St. Louis all the time there were Cardinal fans who would come talk baseball with me every day. The secretary for our group was a 60 year old lady who had been a season ticket holder for 30 years. She knew more about the Cardinals AND the Cubs then 95% of the people I’ve ever encountered.

    Baseball is a passion and a way of life in St. Louis. I hate them as a rival, but I’m always going to be envious of what they have down there. Fact is I have encountered very, very few St. Louis fans who are asshats. And believe me, we have MORE than our share of asshat Cub fans. Ever see the drunken frat boy idiots at Wrigley or who make the trek up to Miller Park in Milwaukee to embarass the piss out of Cub fans globally?

    1. mjhurdle

      i respect the fact that you have had good experiences at Busch. I dont think anyone is saying that St Louis has no good fans.
      However, living here in STL i have met plenty of ‘asshat’ Cardinal fans that couldn’t name 3 players on their team, but still brag about being the best fans in baseball.
      I have had good times at Busch, and i have also had drunk idiots throw beers at my car driving past after a Cubs game, and a very drunk man dump beer on my 9 year old son because he was wearing a Mark Grace jersey.
      The point is that every fanbase has good fans, and idiots. The only thing that makes it annoying is when one fanbase tries to act like it doesn’t.

      1. college_of_coaches

        “The point is that every fanbase has good fans, and idiots. The only thing that makes it annoying is when one fanbase tries to act like it doesn’t.”


    2. cubfanincardinalland

      I live in the St. Louis area. It is a myth that St. Louis is a great baseball town. What they are is a great Cardinal baseball town, and this is when the team is good. Most Cardinals fans though know little about the rest of baseball, and really don’t even follow the AL. I had to ask them to put the games on in bars during the playoffs the last few weeks. Nobody watches unless it is the Cardinals.
      As far as being respectful to Cub fans, so so. They will be less snarky when the Cubs are not any good. But I can tell you, in 07 and 08, it was down right ugly being a Cubs fan in the area. Very hostile. They are sports biggest crybabies when they lose, the team and fans.

      1. Dawn

        I’ve been a Cub fan in St Louis for 15 years now. And I agree with you 100%.

  30. Patrick W.

    Developing an app that hides all comments with the word/phrase butthurt or butt hurt.

    Anybody interested?

    1. DarthHater

      Wow, Patrick, what got you so butthurt about “butthurt?” :-P

      1. Patrick W.

        Hay it works! All I see is:

        October 24, 2013 at 12:21 pm | Permalink | Reply


        1. DarthHater


          1. Patrick W.

            Or did you use some combination of Jed Hoyer and Theo Epstein as one word?

        2. On The Farm

          Did you get it to say hidden if I say butt hurt?

        3. DarthHater

          Tell me, does the app apply only to the comments? Because Brett often includes a description of his medical complaints in his articles, and I wouldn’t want any of those to be hidden. :-P

          1. Patrick W.

            Oooh great point.

        4. DarthHater

          So, now we can all say lots of nasty, insulting things about you and, as long as each comment includes “you-know-what,” you’ll have no clue!

          1. mjhurdle

            stop being so buthurt about his app :)

            1. DarthHater

              spelling evasion? how childish. :-P

              1. mjhurdle

                heh, i have lots of practice from the old ESPN boards on avoiding banned words :)

                ESPN’s web developers got pretty darn good at detecting the spelling evasions before they switched it to Facebook only comments.

                1. DarthHater

                  Yea, near the end, I was posting in Sanskrit. :-P

          2. Patrick W.

            What would be the point of saying nasty things about me if I can’t see them?

            1. DarthHater

              Yea, just keep telling yourself that. ;-)

          3. On The Farm

            Darth is now going to have to post pictures instead of “the word” now. Thanks a lot Patrick! :)

            1. Cubbie Blues


            2. DarthHater


            3. DarthHater

              FYI, OTF, I actually do not use that word, except when the word itself is the subject of conversation. ;-)

              1. On The Farm

                I just wanted you to post some of those annoying pictures that you always seem to catch crap about.

                1. DarthHater

                  I actually already had the emperor one saved in my image reservoir, but CB had to go and post it first.

                  1. Cubbie Blues

                    excellent …

              2. Cubbie Blues

                Same here. I do like my pic better though.

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