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Torey LovulloJust when I’d let the last of the Red-Sox-related angst wash away from my soul, they might be pulling another steaming move …

Ken Rosenthal reported this weekend that the Chicago Cubs would soon interview Boston Red Sox bench coach Torey Lovullo for their open managerial gig. Rosenthal was on something of an island with that one, for, although it made complete sense, Boston sources insisted that the Cubs hadn’t even yet requested or received permission to interview Lovullo.

So what’s the deal? Rosenthal explains, and I suggest you take your blood pressure medication before reading. At the crux of the issue is the post-2011 agreement between the Cubs and Red Sox that the former would not raid the latter for employees in exchange for allowing the Cubs to hire Theo Epstein (to a promotion, damnit! A promotion!). It was a relatively reasonable agreement, and the Cubs’ subsequent raiding of the Padres could show you why.

But Rosenthal says the Red Sox are taking the position that Lovullo – who wasn’t even brought back into the Red Sox’s organization until 2012 – falls under the agreement. That, despite the fact that Lovullo has a legit shot at a managerial job, something that doesn’t exactly come along every day. Class move, gentlemen.

How will this play out? Well, the Red Sox, as is their wont, could ask for some kind of compensation if the Cubs talk to Lovullo and want to hire him. It would be pretty unprecedented for a team to receive compensation to let a coach be hired on as a manager with another club – but, after the Theo Epstein Compensation Saga, I don’t rule out anything unprecedented when it comes to Boston’s ownership/management group.

I suspect the Cubs will have an opportunity to speak to Lovullo before making a managerial decision, but I’d think the timing of this – the Cubs necessarily had to wait until after the World Series – could make things a little uncomfortable timing-wise. The Cubs want to have a manager in place by next Monday for the start of the GM Meetings.

  • EQ76

    That’s BS.. we shouldn’t have had to pay compensation for Epstein to begin with since his move was a promotion .. same with this situation.. no way on earth is Lovullo worth any compensation.. stay classy Boston.

  • Fishin Phil

    I would give them Ian Stewart, Rodrigo Lopez and three hairs from Dick Tidrow’s moustache.

    • D.G.Lang

      Maybe three of Dick Tidrow’s pubic hairs.

  • mdavis

    MLB needs to step in here. This is ridiculous.

    • MichiganGoat

      Don’t you remember how the MLB was going to step in for the Theo compensation issue then say there and did nothing.

    • YourResidentJag

      Agreed. Complete nonsense.

  • MightyBear

    The Cardinals did this with Oquendo. Shows no class in an organization when an employee can’t interview for a promotion with another organization. Hell the Cubs let McKay go and that was a lateral move.

    • DarthHater

      McKay was not under contract with the Cubs when he took the new job.

    • MichiganGoat

      Um McKay wasn’t under contract I believe and I thought MLB had a policy that teams can’t block coaches from interviewing for a promotion. Is this just speculation or is there press behind the Cardinals blocking their coaches from interviewing.

      • Kyle

        There’s no MLB policy. Just an informal tradition.

        • On The Farm

          Ah, the unwritten rules of baseball

          • DarthHater

            Re-sign Henry Rodriguez to fire one into the Sawx dugout…

      • Funn Dave

        But isn’t that because the Cubs chose to let their coaches pursue other gigs when Dale left?

        • MightyBear

          Yes that was my point.

          • Funn Dave

            I was responding to MichiganGoat, not to you.

            • MichiganGoat

              Yes they did but that’s what you do after firing your coach you don’t keep everyone in limbo while you search for the next manager who will likely want to bring in their own staff.

      • MightyBear
        • MichiganGoat

          Thanks MB now I hate the Cardinals even more.

  • Curt

    The redsox are a classless bunch of douschenozzles you would really hold back someone’s chance at a promotion just to prove a point real classy move .

    • YourResidentJag

      You should have seen the attitude the took towards Theo after the WS win..totally classless.

  • SH

    At least we don’t self-identify as “best fans.”

  • http://www.survivingthalia.com Mike Taylor (no relation)

    They’re still mad at (our) Chris Carpenter for getting injured.

  • mdavis

    too me though, it kind of makes me feel like this is the Cubs guy. if not, if it was more of an “exploratory” type deal, why wouldnt they tell boston to get bent, and hire Renteria?

  • DarthDieHard

    The chips are now all falling into place for an Ozzie hiring…

    • Fishin Phil

      I see what you did there.

    • Brian Peters

      Ozzie supporters are smoking crack.

  • Ivy Walls

    More revealing about the angst the BoSox feel towards the Cubs. If I were the Cubs I would fully isolate the BoSox to the rest of the league, meaning the under the ownership world of colleagues, which in turn would make everyone think twice working for them.

    In part everyone who works in MLB basically works for the league, not the franchises in that they are franchises to the league, so it is like working for McDonalds, but a bad franchise owner gets exposed.

  • Ballgame

    I can fully understand compensation for Theo, but c’mon Red Sox. This reeks of bitterness and it’s especially peculiar being that they won the WS a week ago. What a way to reward one of your coaches guys! Dude, is just trying to advance his career and take a job viewed as an enormous opportunity by most and all the Red Sox can think about is themselves. The impact is so much greater for the Cubs to have to wait to hire a manager than it would be for the Red Sox to go through a waiting period to receive a minimal prospect in return. I mean jeez, this is exactly how the Red Sox got Farrell from the Jays.. jokers!

  • roz

    I’m having a hard time thinking of the Red Sox as a “classless bunch of douchnozzles” if the Cubs and the Red Sox did in fact agree not to poach each other’s personnel for three years. I think a fair reading of that agreement would include people who were not under contract at the time the agreement was made. Then again, this could have just been an informal understanding rather than an actual signed legal document, so who knows.

    • mdavis

      to me thats dumb. this guy wasnt even in the organization at the time of that agreement. he was with the jays. and they are blocking a guy from a potential promotion. its petty and classless by the red sox. plain and simple.

      • Kyle

        I’m not sure why the “he wasn’t in the organization then” argument matters at all, unless there’s something in the wording of the agreement.

        • Funn Dave

          Because the point of the agreement was to keep Theo from poaching the people he knew from the Red Sox staff. If Lovullo wasn’t on the Red Sox staff at the time, he wouldn’t have that connection to Theo. Theo doesn’t have any special inside knowledge or sway to convince Lovullo to sign on or deduce whether he’d be a good hire based on past interpersonal exchanges in Boston, and vice versa.

          • Kyle

            Luvollo worked under Epstein extensively. He just didn’t happen to be in the organization at that exact moment.

            • davidalanu

              Does that really matter, though? The Red Sox are going to stand in the way of one of their coaches from getting a manager’s gig? How will that look to their other coaches, scouts, front office guys? “Yeah, you can go so far here, but we won’t let you better yourself with another organization?”

              Take away the Cubs vs. Boston thing and look at it from a Red Sox personnel standpoint and tell me they’re not being “douchenozzles”.

        • mdavis

          scroll down. MLB is Fine has a good response. It’s not like he’s poaching an up and comer that he new about when he was there. Its petty and ridiculous, bottom line.

      • roz

        Eh, I can’t say I necessarily disagree with the view the Red Sox are taking. It seems like a loophole to argue that Lovullo wasn’t under contract when the agreement was made and therefore the agreement doesn’t apply to Lovullo. Like I said though, all of this hinges on the actual language of the agreement and how the agreement was actually made, neither of which I’m that confident in my knowledge of.

        • davidalanu

          Tell that to Torey Lovullo, who would probably prefer a chance to interview.

    • MichiganGoat

      Um Theo compensation proved just how Douchey they really are… Larry Lou is behind this MARK IT DOWN!

      • Pat

        So basically it works like this:

        Cubs sign an agreement
        Team later finds agreement inconvenient
        Other party is douchy for requiring the team to honor the agreement

    • MLB is Fine

      A fair reading would not include new employees, because the entire reason for that agreement was for Boston to prevent Theo from hiring known star employees from them.

      • roz

        “the entire reason for that agreement was for Boston to prevent Theo from hiring known star employees from them.”

        That’s a damn good point, especially if the wording of the agreement is ambiguous.

      • Kyle

        If the Cubs thought that was the point, they probably should have written it in. Maybe they did.

        • roz

          “Maybe they did.”

          Does anybody actually know what was actually agreed to? If not, this is just a giant speculative circlejerk about how douchey the Red Sox are.

        • hansman

          I really hope they just said “Front Office Personnel”. Then this comes down to a debate if the coaching staff is considered FO.

    • hansman

      Unfortunately, this.

      If the agreement is that for 3-years the Cubs can’t hire any Red Sox employee, they’ll make us pay through the nose (rightly so) to get Luvollo.

      I have a feeling this is going to get ugly, quick.

      • DarthHater

        Signing that agreement is just further proof of how incredibly inept our FO is… :-P

        • hansman

          WHY DIDN’T THEY KNOW THAT WHEN THEY DECIDED TO FIRE PLACEHOLDER MANAGER SVEUM THAT LUVOLLO WOULD SIGN WITH THE RED SOX AND THEN THEY WOULD WANT TO INTERVIEW HIM FOR THE JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          BURN ALL THE FO!

          • DarthHater

            Stop shouting! You’re hurting my ears!

            • hansman

              But I had an excess amount of exclamation points to use by the end of the day…

              • Fishin Phil

                That’s true, use them or lose them!!!

                I’m saving one for later.

                • MichiganGoat

                  I’ve got the same philosophy with beer, which reminds me I have a Double Daisy Cutter in the fridge. Later.

                  • MightyBear

                    I highly doubt you have ever lost a beer. At least not for lack of use. Pure speculation on my part.

                    • 400feet2home

                      Idk,

                      Does he have a teenager kid?

                      Even if he does, I once stole 3 Buds from my father as a teenager (18 out of 24 left). And damn if he didn’t know it 3-4 days later when he went to the garage to get one.

              • DarthHater

                Bad move, dude. Void of Reason would have paid good money for those exclamation points.

                • hansman

                  Eh, he was only offering a used “My Pretty Pony” shirt as compensation. I already have three.

    • Nate Dawg

      The Red Sox ownership/mgmt group may very well be a classless bunch of douchenozzles, but if the two teams agreed to this, I can’t really see a legitimate reason to fault them either. The only way the Cubs would have a case here is if the agreement only included *current* Red Sox employees at the time it was signed. IMO

  • Blackhawks1963

    Lets stop dicking around and hire Rick Renteria.

    • On The Farm

      Hey, is there any chance that you think Rick Renteria is going to be hired?

      • Blackhawks1963

        Says the jackwagon who outposts me 20 to 1. I could give a flying fuck what you think.

        • MichiganGoat

          Ah what a fabulous response

        • YourResidentJag

          The truth of a Blackhawks fan revealed in the impeccable use of language. ;)

          • D.G.Lang

            It was only because the Hawks lost last night.

        • jh03

          Mature.

          • MichiganGoat

            Didn’t you hear Renteria will be the next manager

            • jh03

              I didn’t. But if a commenter predicted this weeks ago he should probably be considered a genius.

        • On The Farm

          Tell me how you really feel about me?

          Also, at least when I post, I try not to be repetitive. I know that no one wants to read me post the same thing over and over and over again. But hey it seems like you are making a ton of friends by continually posting “Hire Renteria!”. Keep on posting it. If anything it will make people skip over what you are saying because they can chalk it up to “Oh its Blackhawks’ 3rd daily post on how the Cubs should hire Renteria. How original!!”

          Stay golden pony boy.

        • hansman

          “Says the jackwagon who outposts me 20 to 1.”

          I always love these comments. You spend enough time doing something to notice that someone else spends a lot of time doing that same thing that you are doing, yet they are the lesser person.

          • DarthHater

            Haven’t you got anything better to do, hansman? Get a life! :-P

            • MichiganGoat

              Duh Hamburgers

              • hansman

                Well then, I’m just going to take my Hamburger-mobile and go home.

                • DarthHater

                  [img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3359/3208820119_4ae366203b_m.jpg[/img]

                  • hansman

                    Pfft, mine is cooler. I have spoke rims with baseball cards in the spokes. Some guy by the name of Baby Ruth.

    • mdavis

      like i said up there, it makes me think Lovullo is their guy. otherwise if they thought Renteria was it, just flip the bird to boston and hire the guy already. but who knows what else is goin on.

    • MichiganGoat

      Wow again I’ve never heard you say this before…

      • Blackhawks1963

        See above.

        • MichiganGoat

          Ah thanks buddy keep it classy

  • YourResidentJag

    Well, back to the drawing board. Another month of interviewing candidates. ;)

  • DarthHater

    I have a solution: Cubs send Crane Kenney to the Red Sox as compensation.

    • MichiganGoat

      MARK IT DOWN

    • YourResidentJag

      Or Randy Bush….and then hire Hinch as assistant GM and watch everyone freak out.

  • John Facenda

    Well…Bobby Valentine is still lookin’ for work I guess. This is really becoming quite the debacle.

    • MightyBear

      No disrespect but I don’t see how this is a debacle. Plenty of time to get a manager. Hopefully the right manager.

  • YourResidentJag

    They could interview Dave Miley. He’s at least has a better overall managerial record that Acta or Hinch, if that does it for you.

  • JulioZuleta

    Daniel Bard was still an employee of the Red Sox when the Cubs raided him.

    • YourResidentJag

      Wasn’t Michael Bowden as well?

    • http://odu Greenroom

      well played. indeed. I was once so happy for the Sox, after winning after all those years. I still don’t hate on the players, but I have never seen such petty BS in my life. The Red Sox FO lost tons of respect with this move. I honestly didn’t think it could get any lower after the Theo fiasco. Lets give them “die hard” and call it even.

  • Christopher D

    Granted this is BS and I hate Boston almost as much as the Yankees, but really why is the manager gig left up to Lovullo anyways? The candidates we’ve interviewed thus far are less than impressive so what makes this guy the one. The cubs sat back and watched Ausmus get hired let Ryno go and settled for Dale two years ago. Lets call Larussa let’s call Bobby Cox someone with experience for the young guys!

  • When the Music’s Over

    This saga has slowly turned from really boring to me, to awesome. It now feels like a soap opera, which is sadly sorta becoming the modus operandi for this front office / ownership.

    • YourResidentJag

      As the Theo turns….

      • When the Music’s Over

        Days of Theo’s Life

    • Kyle

      I always envied Boston and New York’s ability to get caught up in crazy hijinks. I’d enjoy our current dramas a lot more if they were attached to a decent MLB team.

    • Funn Dave

      I’ve got just about the opposite reaction. I found it more interesting to discuss the candidates’ strengths and weaknesses than to discuss their availability.

  • Joycedaddy

    I hate Boston sports teams, and the fans that come with them.

  • Joycedaddy

    Are we expecting compensation from the D-Backs for taking Bob Brenly and Dave McKay??

    • YourResidentJag

      The quick answer: yes and yes. ;)

      • YourResidentJag

        And since we need SP, I vote for Archie Bradley.

  • Brian Peters

    Ben Cherington is a female part!

    • Jon

      He’s a cunt too.

      • Carew

        Pow! right to it

  • JulioZuleta

    I feel like this will make Theo want to hire Lovullo even more.

  • Blackhawks1963

    If the choice is between a bunch of us idiot fans twisting in the wind for a few more weeks over who is the next manager or actually HIRING the best next manager, then I’ll opt for the later.

    There’s no rush. Last time I checked Spring Training doesn’t start until mid-February. And its not like Theo and Jed are going to let a new manager infuence their personnel moves. Seriously. Francona had very little say on things in Boston, and I hardly think Joe New Guy in Chicago is going to have any more weight in matters.

    • TWC

      Yeah, but who do *you* think will be the next manager?

    • Funn Dave

      I completely agree. If the interviewees they liked aren’t available, they should scrap the deadline and look into some more candidates.

    • http://odu Greenroom

      I have been hearing a lot lately about this Renteria guy, anyone ever heard of him?

  • Indy57

    Move on with Renteria. Let Sawx have an unhappy bench coach next year. Serves them right.

  • http://mccarronlegal.com jmc

    oh cheer up Cubs fans.there’s a Bears game tonight. Second thought nevermind

  • Mike F

    Sorry, while I agree it takes what it takes time wise, the last part of your comment is as wrong headed as can be. You can’t expect a Manager to be a lackey in terms of personnel. No one can rightly expect GM’s to let managers make the decisions, but by the same token if there are excluded from the decision making and subservient to it, then it always breaks down. Please visit Dale.

    If you are correct, then it is a hell of lot easier to fix this. Just put a uni on Hoyer and let them take responsibility for micro-managing.

  • Senor Cub

    Why doesn’t Epstein and co. just go back to Boston, they seem to be so enamored with them. I am sure we are one BoSox bench coach from greatness! C’mon everyone, get serious here! BoSox only care about beating the NYY, they could care less about whatssahappenin in Cubs world.

  • Patrick G

    From buster olney

    “@Buster_ESPN: There is an expectation that the Jeff Samardzija/Arizona trade talks will continue. Cubs reaching point where they need a decision on him.”

    • Tony_S

      I didn’t know there WERE any AZ/Shark trade talks…

      Rumors on who we’d be getting?

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