Quantcast

rick renteria padresIt should be unsurprising that the reactions to the unsurprising Rick Renteria hiring are unsurprisingly unsurprised. The best bits are going to come from Renteria, himself, and the Cubs’ front office. That’s all yet to come. Still, it’s interesting to peruse the early reactions …

  • Multiple reports have Renteria getting a three-year deal from the Cubs (fairly standard), plus two club option years at the end. No word on the money, though I wouldn’t necessarily expect him to be a top-paid manager given that he’s not a “name,” and he did not get competing offers.
  • Carrie Muskat offers a take and got some quotes from long-time Padres catcher Nick Hundley, who is sad to lose Renteria, and says the Cubs are getting a good one.
  • Word out of San Diego is that Renteria’s departure is indeed felt as a loss, which tends to be the best compliment.
  • Bruce Miles writes about the length of the managerial search, and why it only seems like it was a long process. The search was exhaustive, and there was no reason not to take as much time as reasonably possible to get it right.
  • CSN’s Tony Andracki collects bits and background on Renteria.
  • Phil Rogers pegs turning Starlin Castro around as Renteria’s biggest task.
  • Jon Greenberg offers a sardonic take on the hiring, almost chiding the Cubs for grabbing another placeholder manager. Indeed, the article is less about the hiring than it is about rehashing the travails of the immediate past and future. That said, Greenberg compliments the rebuilding process, calling it a wise “sausage-making” endeavor.
  • And Keith Law won the joking contest with a sublime crack:

  • Bea Arthur Jr.

    BEtween Bosio’s fake knees and Renteria’s hip, we might need golf carts out to the mound.

    • demz

      lol

  • Wilson

    If I remember right, all these experts made the same comments about Madden from the Tampa Rays, you just never know who is going to be successful at getting the troops to respond to they’re method of leading, and the stupid comments about his only qualification being he was bilingual is so tipical of the ignorant noneducated mopes that
    frequantly make stupid, teetering on bigotry comments….get a life!!!!!!!!!!!111

    • Napercal

      Totally true. While Renteria is not an “exciting” pick, there is no reason at this point to be critical of his skills. Earl Weaver, Sparky Anderson, Tony LaRussa … none of those guys were big names at the start of their managerial careers. Renteria deserves the benefit of the doubt.

      • MightyBear

        I know the headline in the Green Bay paper in 1959 was “Vince Who?”

  • Tommy

    I usually like Greenberg, just not that horrible profile pic of him (le creepe’). That article was pretty horribad, though. I would be lying if I said I was excited about the Renteria hiring, but I certainly wouldn’t pass judgment on it before he’s had a chance to manage even one game. I certainly don’t think I have a keener insight into who would make a good MLB manager than the Cub’s front office.

  • papabear

    Sveum – I think did a pretty good job. How many guys did the cubs take off the scrap wire and make them starters.

    If we combined the Cardinals and the Cubs teams how many Cubs make the 25 man roster. Maybe 6 and very few are starters. This was a good 3A team full of players other teams didn’t want.

    • Tommy

      Yeah, I didn’t think Sveum did such a terrible job with what he was given to work with. It’s hard to win games when you trade away half of your starting rotation every year.

      I do agree with some of the comments and articles here that pointed out that Rizzo and Castro both seemed to regress, though. I’ve been convinced here that that was the leading contributor to Sveum’s firing. Still think he’s a smart guy that will probably learn from this experience and hopefully for him, get another opportunity.

  • Cecil

    why is that Law tweet a joke? I don’t follow.

  • Die hard

    If Renteria is the good cop they will need a bad cop- any ideas? Brenly? Ozzie?

    • Brian Peters

      BRENLY HAS SHOWN NO–AND I DO MEAN no–INTEREST IN DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT HE IS DOING. STOP MENTIONING HIM, FOR THE LOVE OF ORANGES!!!!!!

      • ssckelley

        Bob Brenly for radio!!!

      • Tony_S

        Bob Brenly likes Bob Brenly.
        Brenly Brenly…

      • Tony_S

        (this is what ALL CAPS gets you…)

      • Voice of Reason

        Has anyone mentioned Brenly’s name?

  • http://goodfoodgoodwinegooddog.com Valerae

    Was someone having a little fun at the expense of Cub fans with the Renteria pic on the Wiki page? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Renteria

    [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/2013_09_11_106_Padres_Rick_Renteria_edit.jpg[/img]

    • Tony_S

      Damn, now that’s funny

  • papabear

    in hind sight – Do you think the Cubs fire Sveum if they would have known they don’t get their first 3 choices of manager. Then settle for Renteria. I don’t think this team is one win better for the move. Castro carries a lot of mental baggage and Rizzo needs to crouch in the batters box and change his approach. I’ve been told these two do not take direction well.

    I also liked Sveums coaching staff. I wonder what Renteria brings to the table.

    • mjhurdle

      “I’ve been told these two do not take direction well.”

      well, if you were told this, then it must be true.

    • TWC

      Who said they didn’t get their first three choices? Who said Renteria was “settling”?

      • Fishin Phil

        papabear

        • TWC

          Ah. Thanks for the clarification, puppet.

          • mjhurdle

            papabear has crazy inside sources apparently. he KNOWS things.

            • DarthHater

              I’ve been told he just makes shit up.

  • Cardfan

    Congrats on the hire and being able to move forward from here. What little press I have seen on him in San Diego has been positive. All indications are that he is a well-respected man and the players respond to his style.

    You need to find a different pic of him for these columns, though. He just looks like he is ready for a big hug and some tickling – kind of freaky. Find the one with the stache or use the one from the San Diego UT site…
    [img]http://media.utsandiego.com/img/photos/2013/11/06/Cubs%20Renteria%20Baseball_r620x412.JPEG?6e881386ed36a28fa68b1435e00a6cd4385ac23a[/img]

    • ssckelley

      I agree, the pic Brett uses looks like he is sticking his tongue out at us.

  • Patrick W.

    Rick (then Rich) Renteria absolutely OWNED Tom Browning, the pitcher against whom he got his most major league at bats.

    That’s all I need to know, right?

  • Rebuilding

    Is Renteria the right choice? None of here will know that for a couple of years. The only thing I really don’t like is all of the reports that the Cubs “were INTENT on hiring a Hispanic manager.” Replace Hispanic with white and see the outrage. I don’t know why you would limit yourself to 15% of the population. There have been successful managers from all backgrounds – to me speaking Spanish does not trump knowing how to use a bullpen

    • mjhurdle

      where did you see the Cubs say they were “intent on hiring a Hispanic manager?”

      • TWC

        He just read Kelley’s comments from last night.

        Otherwise he’s just making shit up.

        • Rebuilding

          Ahhhh…I miss a month or so but I see TWC is still being an ass. See the link below and I’ll wait for your apology

          • YourResidentJag

            A month without being an asshole. He’s KING OF THE ASSHOLES since the day he was born. Why has this taken you so long to figure this out?

        • DarthHater

          Jesse Rogers’ article about the Renteria hiring at espn.com says:

          “Sources familiar with the process say the team was intent on hiring a Latin American manager and/or coaches, something lacking on the previous coaching staff.”

          It does not say they were intent on hiring a hispanic manager. It says they were intent on having some hispanic representation in the coaching staff, which is quite a reasonable position.

          But why read what was actually said and acknowledge the reasonableness of the team’s position, when it’s so much more gratifying to churn up phony outrage?

          • Jon

            “It does not say they were intent on hiring a hispanic manager. ”

            umm, it kinda does.

            • DarthHater

              Only if you ignore the rest of the sentence..

          • Rebuilding

            Riiiiiiigggght. First of all I don’t think there was any “outrage”. I said I didn’t like it. I generally don’t like it when people are hired/fired for any reason other than their ability do the job. Guess you can read that quote that way if you wish or you can look at the fact the final two candidates were both of Latin American descent and draw your own conclusions

            • DarthHater

              The job includes communicating as effectively as possible with a number of young Latin American players who are not native speakers of English.

            • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

              “the final two candidates were both of Latin American descent”

              Final two candidates? I’m not sure there were two finalists. Further, I don’t believe any of Brad Ausmus, Eric Wedge, A.J. Hinch or Torey Lovullo are of Latin American descent, and there was genuine interest there.

              • DarthHater

                Boy are you gonna owe a big apology when the source for that one gets produced. :-P

                • Rebuilding

                  I get the rogues gallery of board monitors today: TWC and Darth, now if Goat and Hansman join in I’ll know I’ve made it. Look around the Internet, I’ve already posted what 4 articles intimating the Cubs wanted a Latin American manager. I can post more if you want. Because of that it was Renteria and Martinez. But pit blinders on if you want

                  • bbmoney

                    Nothing you’ve posted has said they would only hire a Hispanic Manager, which is what your original post said.

                    Did they want someone on the coaching staff who could relate with a lot of their younger HIspanic players? Yes. That’s what your quotes are saying.

                    You’re, incorrectly in my opinion, interpreting those quotes to say they would ONLY hire a manger who was Hispanic.

                    • Rebuilding

                      Lord, connect the dots. And lets just say for the sake of argument that it was just coaches, do you think selecting them based on ethnicity is appropriate there as well?

                    • bbmoney

                      The problem with connecting dots instead of just reading what was actually said is that people often connect the dots incorrectly. You of course may interpret the comments any way you like, doesn’t mean I have to agree with your interpretation or that I can’t tell you I think you’re wrong.

                      To answer your question, I have no problem with the Cubs preferring to have a Hispanic coach on the staff given the composition of the roster and the expected future roster.

                    • C. Steadman

                      i think it’d be good to have a coach from Latin heritage on the staff. the Latin players can identify with them better…i know if i was playing baseball in Mexico itd be helpful to have a coach that spoke English and had ties to the U.S

                  • hansman

                    “…intimating the Cubs wanted a Latin American manager.”

                    and/or coach.

                    No big deal, I’m just glad I could join in as member three of your list.

                    What is odd, is that Dave Martinez got the boot from consideration pretty quickly. Oh, that’s right, the FO was worried about offending someone in the FO due to the whole Sandberg mess.

                    • DarthHater

                      Actually, Goat was number three. You were fourth. :-P

                    • DarthHater

                      The Four Goatmen of the Apocalypse:
                      [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8258/8662341180_98ae03c309_m.jpg[/img]

                    • hansman

                      I was the third to chime in.

                      Although, that does hurt a bit that I was listed last. First I don’t get hired on as the Mythical FO staff and now I’m last?

                      I hear what you all are saying.

                    • Cubbie Blues

                      At least you were mentioned. I must be doing the internet wrong.

                    • Rebuilding

                      Who said Martinez got the boot early? “Renteria was chosen over former major league managers A.J. Hinch, Eric Wedge and Manny Acta as well as Rays coach Dave Martinez.”

                  • MichiganGoat

                    So tired of this bullshit, blah blah blah I made something up MOAR MOAR MOAR somebody called out my bullshit now my feeling are hurt!

                    • ssckelley

                      C’mon Goat, bring it. I wore my big boy pants today. :p

            • hansman

              Who were the final two candidates.

      • Rebuilding

        Jesse Rogers, ESPNChicago.com:

        “Renteria is known as a hands-on teacher and a strong communicator. His ability to speak Spanish is believed to be a plus for the Cubs. Sources familiar with the process say the team was intent on hiring a Latin American manager and/or coaches, something lacking on the previous coaching staff.”

        • Jon

          The “prove it, give me a source” lemmings here owe you a big apology, rebuilding.

          • DarthHater

            No, they don’t. He still mis-represented what the article said. See my comment above.

            • Jon

              No, Rebulding made a comment, that was reasonable, based on a quote from Jessie Rodgers, and y’all jump his ass like usual on this site, but when he provided a quote/source that pretty much supported as usual, you are all arguing semantics as usual.

              • DarthHater

                If “arguing semantics” = reading something for what it actually means, rather than what you think it “kinda” or “pretty much” means, then guilty as charged.

                • Rebuilding

                  From Gammons “…saying that those types of skills will be critical for the Cubs as they looked for a manager who could mentor the bumper crop of Latin American players like Javier Baez and Jorge Soler that are working their way through the minor league system.”

                  • Rebuilding

                    “ability to speak Spanish and his ethnicity were believed to be a plus for the Cubs, who have several key players of Latin-American descent such as Starlin Castro, Junior Lake and Javier Baez.”

                    • TWC

                      Yet somehow “believed to be a plus” becomes “the primary reason he got the job” in some of your minds. It’s just weird.

                    • DarthHater

                      None of these sources are inconsistent with what I am saying. Ability to mentor the young Latino players is A factor that was considered in the hiring process. I think that’s fine. You apparently disagree. So be it.

                      But I think it’s inaccurate to suggest that Renteria was hired solely because of that factor or that it somehow led to his being preferred over other candidates who were more qualified based on other factors unrelated to ethnicity.

                    • Rebuilding

                      When did I ever say he was hired solely because of that. They obviously thought he was the most qualified Latin American manager to be, but if you don’t think his heritage was a big factor then your blind. And that to me is wrong

                    • Chicagoan

                      “I generally don’t like it when people are hired/fired for any reason other than their ability do the job. ” – right, so, if the FO determined that the ability to speak Spanish and relate to the many young Latin American players in the Cubs system WOULD, in fact, enhance RR’s ability to do the job, it’s a totally appropriate consideration, right? You just sound like a mad, privileged white guy who thinks that affirmative action will “take our jobs!” I guarantee you that the Cubs hired who they thought was best for the job and – sorry – his heritage was a legitimate factor.

                    • Rebuilding

                      Ummmm…what? A white, privileged white guy scared Hispanics are going to take our jobs? Lol. What I’m arguing is just the opposite – given the demographics of Major League Baseball by all rights there should be MORE Hispanic managers. But the very same thinking that’s going on in this thread is the reason it’s been slow to happen. Before many organizations have courtesy interviews to Hispanics but were always going to hire a white guy. Here it is my belief it was the opposite. In both cases I think it is wrong.

                    • Rebuilding

                      “and – sorry – his heritage was a legitimate factor.” Yes, that’s my exact point. In all other walks of life you do realize that’s illegal right?

                    • Patrick W.

                      It’s not actually illegal in all other walks of life. The Civil Rights Act exempts things like religions (think Catholic School), Native American Tribes, and non-profit groups (think KKK). But I’m nitpicking.

                      Also it’s illegal to NOT hire somebody based on their ethnicity, but it not illegal TO hire somebody based on their ethnicity.

                    • Patrick W.

                      That is to say, you can’t discriminate AGAINST a person based on things like ethnicity, religion, skin color, gender (and hopefully soon gender identification and sexual orientation) but there’s nothing in the law preventing you from discriminating FOR somebody based on those things. To be illegal you have to prove that this preference resulted in others being discriminated AGAINST and you have to have an injured party. You thinking AJ Hinch?

                    • Rebuilding

                      Your first point has nothing to do with the case at hand. Your second point is basically wrong because its two sides of the same coin. If you hire someone because they are white you are naturally not hiring someone who isn’t white based on racial preference assuming more than 1 applicant

                    • Rebuilding

                      I understood what you meant. Law school wasn’t a total waste. What I’m saying is that while technically true, in modern Civil Rights law it is a distinction without a difference. If you discriminate in favor of an applicant based on an ethnic characteristic and there were other applicants not having that ethnic characteristic it assumed you have an injured party. Those parts of cases aren’t litigated anymore – it’s a presumption

                    • Patrick W.

                      I admitted my first point as being nit picky so, “you got me” on that one by reminding me.

                      You might think that I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lots of people think affirmative action was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, but in fact, only certain practices were. Using race as a small plus factor when considering students, for example is perfectly legal. There’s never been a challenge of institutional affirmative action outside of education that has reached the Supreme Court for ruling, so it’s not easy to say if, say an Eric Wedge were to sue the Cubs because he wasn’t considered because he’s not Hispanic, what the outcome would be.

                    • Patrick W.

                      Actually, I’m wrong, now that I think about it. Ricci v. DeStefano probably is close enough.

                      So, if the Cubs actually only were going to hire an Hispanic applicant, that would probably be illegal.

              • wilbur

                anyone using jesse rogers as a source for anything is citing an imbecile. He once asked ‘Al Fonseca’ if he’d always had six fingers in an interview. Espn needs new cubs reporters.

          • Eric

            You are incorrect. Furthermore, you’re also being an ass for not admitting you are incorrect.

        • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

          I’m not getting involved in this pissing match, but I will point something out:

          “Sources familiar with the process say the team was intent on hiring a Latin American manager and/or coaches.”

          • DarthHater

            Geez, Brett. You owe rebuilding a big apology for reading what the article actually said. The nerve.

        • TWC

          Awesome. One anonymous report. Not “all” the reports, and not solely for the manager role as you wrote, but one anonymous report claiming that the Cubs wanted a Latino on the staff. Okay.

          Enjoy stroking your vindication boner, kid.

          • Jon

            When it can be used as a source in a blog story = Jessie Rogers-Good Source

            When it doesn’t support the lemmings agenda = Jessie Rodgers-Bad Source.

            • On The Farm

              I think this is one of Jon’s most underrated posts ever. It seems like when Rodgers can be used to your advantage he is good, when he can’t he is a hack. I don’t mind the guy, at some point you have to realize not all writers are perfect, but Rodgers does a pretty good job overall.

          • Rebuilding

            I’ll take that as an apology or as close to one as I would get from you. Said it smmonths ago – I’ve never seen you contribute positively to this board whatsoever.

            • YourResidentJag

              BTW, he also likes to dehumanize his opponent by frequently referring to them as “kid”….even though to most of us…he’s really one himself.

              • Cubbie Blues

                When he uses kid, I highly doubt he is referring to adolescent goats. dehumanize then would be the wrong term. Now, if you had said condescending you would be correct and most of the time he is as well when using it.

                • DarthHater

                  Let’s start a new message board thread: “Things About TWC That Are Annoying” :-P

                  • TWC

                    Oooh, I’ve got a long list.

                    • DarthHater

                      It’ll even have its own acronym: TATWCTAA

                  • YourResidentJag

                    Well, we could supplement that list with “Things we find annoying about his most adamant defender, Darth Hater.” But I digress. :)

                    • DarthHater

                      I was fishing for this compliment, but I never expected you to be the one who would bite. :-P

                    • YourResidentJag

                      Problem No 1: he feels the incessant need to always get it the last word….wait for it….wait…

                    • DarthHater

                      And there it is.

                    • mjhurdle

                      “he feels the incessant need to always get it the last word….wait for it….wait…”

                      is this your strange way of trying to make sure you get the last word in?

                    • YourResidentJag

                      @mjhurdle Well, since you’ve responded shouldn’t that question really apply to you as well?

                    • mjhurdle

                      not really.
                      You can tell because I asked a question. So that implies i am waiting for a response. Then when you responded, it would be pretty hard for my post to be the last word, would it not?
                      (please note the question mark again, because it seemed to confuse you last time, and feel free to respond with the last word)

                    • YourResidentJag

                      Why, it’s rhetorical trap @mjhurdle?

                    • C. Steadman

                      last word…

                • YourResidentJag

                  And how really could anyone know that? Nice play on words. Points for that.

                  • Cubbie Blues

                    Well, that would be the 3 years that I have known him. For the second part, thanks.

                    • YourResidentJag

                      So, that’s why all of you defend each other and one hops on the other’s attacks….it’s like high school all over again for you. ;)

                    • Cubbie Blues

                      Nope, I always take the side of fact or most probable. Everything I have seen on the subject supposes Latin speaking was a factor, but never mentioned it was a mandate. With the number of Latin players in the game today of course it will be a factor and you should have a few Latin speaking coaches on your team. Now, that is not saying the Manager has to be one of those, but it would be a plus. In the job description it would not be under required, but under desired.

                    • hansman

                      “So, that’s why all of you defend each other and one hops on the other’s attacks….it’s like high school all over again for you.”

                      HEY, STOP PICKING ON TIM.

        • ssckelley

          I really hope this is not true. Hire the best guy for the job regardless of race or languages he speaks.

          • TWC

            The fact that you and others insist that Renteria *wasn’t* hired because they felt he was the best person for the job, but that his ability to speak Spanish somehow trumped all else is baffling.

            • Rebuilding

              Nowhere did I say that. He may well turn out to be a great manager. I just don’t like when factors of race or descent factor into it at all. You do not have to be Latin American to talk to and garner the respect of Latin American players. That thought is racist in itself

              • YourResidentJag

                The non-nativist twat being thought of through a racist lens. Interesting….

              • hansman

                Ok, show me the quote where the front office said “Latin American”

                • Rebuilding

                  I linked several reports earlier that said being Latin American and his ethnicity were a big “plus”. Do you think the front office would be dumb enough to say they would only hire a Latin American? Read between the lines though and it’s pretty obvious unless you just choose to be contrary

                • mjhurdle

                  Ya, you have to not read what they wrote and instead make up your own interpretations of what they are saying!
                  Duh Hansman!

              • TWC

                “You do not have to be Latin American to talk to and garner the respect of Latin American players. That thought is racist in itself”

                Yeah, I agree. Who made that claim?

                • Rebuilding

                  Then why do multiple reports say the Cubs saw his ethnicity as a plus? Isn’t that the subtext here – he’s Latin American and can therefore relate better to the LA players. You really don’t see that?

              • wilbur

                Ozzie speaking spanish went over so well with the hispanic cuban population didn’t it? This has to be one of the lamest cubs media themes ever. You think Castro is going to suddenly raise his ops because his manager told him to in spanish? This is not the issue.

                • TWC

                  “This is not the issue.”

                  The spanishman is not the issue here, dude. I’m talking about drawing a line in the sand, dude. Across this line, you DO NOT… Also, dude, spanishman is not the preferred nomenclature. HIspanic-American, please.

            • ssckelley

              Show me where I have insisted this. I spent a good portion of my rant last night saying the exact opposite. I refuse to believe that Renteria being Hispanic or bilingual was a big reason he was hired.

              You are acting like an idiot again and attacking this guy like you attacked me last night, for no good reason!

              • mjhurdle

                you can refuse to believe it, but many successful, even HoF managers say that it is a very important tool in managing.
                I think that communication with players may be the most important qualification of a manager, and if being bilingual strengthens that, then of course it would be an important consideration.

                • ssckelley

                  Don’t start on me again, my learn Spanish CDs were purchased last night. But I am having second thoughts on learning Japanese, sorry.

                  • mjhurdle

                    Charlie Manual would be disappointed.

                    • ssckelley

                      Well I do not have any Japanese kids coming up in little league. But I can see potential in learning Spanish.

                • Playoffs!

                  I totally agree. The mere fact that RR can communicate and relate to players on a totally different level than Dale ever could is huge. Communication and confidence is key.

        • Voice of Reason

          I think you’re quoting the same Jesse Rogers who asked Antonio Alfonseca in an interview if he was born with six fingers?

          Quote someone else, ANYONE else! What does the guy at the end of the bar think about the hire?

    • Spider

      This comment is confusing, and possibly disturbing, unless I’m reading it wrong.

  • We hired who?

    So we hire a career coach from the San Diego Padres to take over the Cubs. A guy who is 51 going on 71 if his picture and hip surgery are any indicator. A guy that has a blank open mouth stare in every picture I’ve come across. He really does look like he just stepped off the short bus. But alas, one of the high points to his resume is that he speaks Spanish. So when Starlin Castro starts day dreaming and picking his nose at shortstop at least we now have a manager who can yell at him from the dugout to “HEY, STOP DOING THAT AND PAY ATTENTION” in Spanish !

    So Renteria is coming to Chicago (eventually, because he’s recovering from hip surgery and loading up on Geritol in sunny California right now) to be thrown under the bus within a month on the job. He’s going to be expected to get better results than sleepy Dale with the wondrous roster options of Bogusevic, Sweeney, Barney, Valbuena and the other half dozen or so players on this roster who suck and shouldn’t be here in the first place. Well good luck with that Rick…or is it Rich according to some who suggest that’s his nickname?!?

    A total clusterfuck. I don’t blame Epstein. He inherited a trainwreck and is sobering up to the reality that he is working for a Ricketts family that has no clue what they are doing or the financial resources and smarts to figure things out. Fast forward to a year from now and Tom Ricketts will still be taking it up the shorts by the rooftop owners and Tom Tunney, with the Wrigley renovation still but a pipedream.

    I’d be laughing if I weren’t crying. I wonder if we are approaching the point where Theo says fuck it and quits, ala Dallas Green in 1987. Then we’ll be left with Rich or Rick Renteria, a $60 million payroll and a joke of a big league roster.

    • Eric

      Feel better now? Your attitude is awful. Lighten up, Francis.

      • We hired who?

        This is Preston Gomez all over again. Funny thing is, I don’t blame Rick / Rich / Ricardo Renteria one bit. Anybody in his shoes would take a big league manager job too if offered. Trouble is he’s stepping into a total nightmare of a situation.

        The Ricketts are making the McCaskeys look like the greatest owners in professional sports. Tom Ricketts is the family figurehead loser that Michael McCaskey was until Virginia intervened and named another one of her sons to take over. The Ricketts don’t know what they got into. They severely overpaid for this franchise, financed the deal with a huge amount of debt and have been stunned into the point of paralysis on the magnitude of leadership required of them. They can’t even get a fucking Wrigley renovation project going even though they bent over and agreed to pay for the whole project by themselves !!! Think about this for a minute. They are apparently saddled with so much debt to finance that they can’t open up the payroll right now, and in fact continue to keep shrinking it. Now these idiots need to see about securing a new TV contract. What are the odds they fuck that up too?!?

        Two things. If we were to ask Joe Ricketts in a moment of honesty if he regrets buying the Cubs, then the old man would say YES ! If we asked Theo if he regrets taking this job, then he’d SCREAM YES !

    • C. Steadman

      i didnt know Greenberg posted on BN…

  • Rebuilding

    From Gammons: “saying that those types of skills will be critical for the Cubs as they looked for a manager who could mentor the bumper crop of Latin American players like Javier Baez and Jorge Soler that are working their way through the minor league system.”

    • DarthHater

      Right. The ability to effectively communicate with and mentor those guys is an important skill to have on the coaching staff. I just don’t see the big deal with that.

      • On The Farm

        I am a white American, if I can speak Spanish, why does it matter what country my family is from? It seems the FO was intent on “hiring a Latin American manager and/or coaches”. Why not just say they are intent on hiring someone who can communicate effectively with Latin American players? Why did they have to be intent on hiring an actual Latin American coach?

        I would just argue that it seems like the only people that would be able to communicate effectively with Latin American players is a Latin American player, but that isn’t necessarily true.

        • hansman

          We don’t have an actual quote from the FO saying:

          “We wanted a Latin American manager and/or coach”

          Do we? Otherwise, the reporter may have heard just that but then just typed “Latin American…blah blah blah”

          • On The Farm

            Unfortunately I can only make my opinions off what gets reported. So if Jesse Rodgers and Peter Gammons report that the FO wants a Latin coach (no matter what position) or that his ethnicity being used as an asset, it seems to me like they are hiring someone for the sole purpose of what their decent is. Again, I can only go off the reports we see, so no we don’t have a quote from the FO.

            I am not arguing Renteria WAS hired because of his heritage, but these writers had to get this information from somewhere. I am just saying that if they had two equal candidates, but one was of Latin American decent and the other wasn’t, that shouldn’t be the tie breaker. If it was there is nothing I can change about it, but I don’t have to like it.

          • Jon

            We have a quote from Jessie Rodgers, who I thought, (despite in terms of baseball acumen) was a pretty reliable beat reporter.

            • hansman

              This quote?

              “His ability to speak Spanish is believed to be a plus for the Cubs. ”

              Or this quote?

              “Sources familiar with the process say the team was intent on hiring a Latin American manager and/or coaches, something lacking on the previous coaching staff.”

              FYI, both of those are quotes from Rogers, not anyone in the FO.

              Much ado is being made about third hand information that doesn’t really say what you want it to say.

              • Rebuilding

                Oh please. So Rogers and Gammons and ten other articles just made that up? Anyone with an ounce of deductive skills can read between the lines here. Would the Cubs FO ever say they were only going to hire a Latin American? Of course not

                • hansman

                  Ohhh, so the Cubs FO just wanted a Latino and didn’t care about anything else?

                  Why did Martinez get the boot so quickly? Why was Lovullo, apparently, a target of theirs?

                  • Rebuilding

                    All reports are that the Cubs never contacted the Red Sox about Lovullo. Do you have some info to the contrary? And why do you keep saying Martinez got the boot early? I keep reading he was a finalist and have heard he was #2

        • ssckelley

          Could you imagine the outrage if rumors surfaced a team hired someone because they wanted a white American?

  • Eric

    Bottom line is that this FO has never once stated that they “were intent on hiring a Latin American manager and/or coach.”

  • LER

    ““Renteria is known as a hands-on teacher and a strong communicator. His ability to speak Spanish is believed to be a plus for the Cubs.” There’s the part of the Rogers quote that was skipped over. “Hands-on teacher: and “strong communicator” are key words.

    Then there’s the all-important matter of what Renteria apparently looks like: how old, how fat, how hobbled,” etc. Is there a data bases somewhere that can equate looks with successful managerial behavior?

    And then there’s the business of equating Renteria with Preston Gomez, most famous for having lifted Don Wilson twice from non-hitters and then wondering why Wilson went after him. If he is like Gomez, then cite chapter and verse from his managerial career.

  • Corey
    • bbmoney

      Yes. Brett linked it in the article above.

      Ridiculous.

  • LER

    Greenberg has finally learned to deliver consistently the ESPN approach: stir up a fight over what’s at hand and confuse snark with wit..

  • Cardfan

    FOOD FIGHT!!!!
    [img]http://1to10reviews.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/anim09.jpg[/img]

    • Fishin Phil

      Well played, sir.

    • YourResidentJag

      Good one. :)

    • ssckelley

      Dude, you gotta stop this. This is the 3rd post of yours that I have liked.

      • Fishin Phil

        Painful, isn’t it?

  • chrisfchi

    I’m glad the search is over. Can we now get back to debates over FA and stop this crap about his looks/heritage it would be much appreciated.

  • Rebuilding

    I’ll just end with Occam’s Razor. Multiple reports say the Cubs wanted to hire a Latin American manager and/or manager. Multiple reports after the hiring say his ethnicity was a big plus and then go on to list Cubs LA prospects. No, I won’t ever find a quote from Epstein saying only Latin Americans need apply. He’s not that dumb. But it’s pretty obvious to anyone who doesn’t have an agenda

    • Rebuilding

      Meant and/or coaches

    • Eric

      What’s obvious is your agenda. The burden of proof falls on your shoulders and you have nothing but circumstantial evidence. You lose.

      • Rebuilding

        What is my agenda? I just want the Cubs to hire the best person to be manager of the Cubs. Is it Renteria? Hell if any of us know. But even if they were just going to hire coaches based on ethnicity I find that wrong. That’s my agenda

        • Eric

          When a person stops looking for facts and starts looking for opinions and conjecture that support their predisposed view, they have an agenda. You meet the criteria perfectly.

          • Rebuilding

            Thanks for the primer on agendas, Eric. No, I think I just looked at the facts based on numerous articles and sources and came to a reasonable conclusion

            • Eric

              None of what you have cited would be considered factual to any reasonable person. You’ve merely co-opted unverified opinion.

    • bbmoney

      This comment is of course quite different from your original comment above that inspired so much debate.

      The “and/or coaches” thing is pretty key and is why I at least disagreed with your characterization of only 15% of the population being seriously considered managerial search process and specifically that they were “intent on hiring a Hispanic” manager. I’m not at all surprised, or offended, that the FO thinks it’s important, given the roster (and frankly the make up of the MLB) to have a Hispanic / Latin American influence somewhere on the coaching staff.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      I’d love your thoughts on why a majority of the guys who actually interviewed for the position weren’t Latin American.

      • Rebuilding

        I think Girardi was the #1 choice. Once Girardi said no I think you had a bunch of meh. At that point I think they made it a priority to get a Latin American manager. In sports you give all kinds of courtesy interviews. I don’t think Eric Wedge was ever a serious candidate – do you?

        • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

          So three (Wedge, Ausmus, Hinch) out of six (Acta, Renteria, Martinez) reported interviews were courtesy interviews? Cubs sure do like to waste everyone’s time.

          • MichiganGoat

            Not to mention Girardi was their top choice… so obviously being Latin American was the number one priority. Like duh?

            • hansman

              Exactly, and Luvollo was never a real choice for them. Just throwing people off the scent.

              • Rebuilding

                I’m not sure why you revel in recasting nuanced arguments into simple ones you can then try to pick apart. Girardi was choice #1 because he was a big name and a former Northwestern/Cub guy. He was a splash type hire. Once he was off the board there wasn’t an obvious choice. That’s when we started seeing articles that the Cubs would sure like a guy to “relate” to Castro and the young LA players coming up. Now did the FO come out and say that was a big criteria? Of course not. I’m sure if Hinch or Ausmus would have just blown them away then they would have bypassed that preference. But given the cluster of mediocre candidates they seemed to have they picked someone with their preferred ethnicity

                • MichiganGoat

                  I’m out this bullshit logic is beyond a response anymore. The site is all your buddy enjoy the irrationality of the comments.

                  • Rebuilding

                    Typical response. If that was over your head that’s fine

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Me a dumb goat you too smart you is special me not worthy

                      Fucking dipshits

                • Rebuilding

                  I really don’t know what else there is to say about it. It’s really no different than when you guys argued with me that the Ricketts were counting debt as “baseball operations”. We went round and round until it became obvious to even Hansman. Then Brett wrote an article about it and it went down the rabbit hole. If you guys don’t want to believe it was a big factor then ok

                  • MichiganGoat

                    Okay buddy YOU ARE RIGHT! YOUR LOGIC IS FLAWLESS! I WORSHIP THE WORDS YOU SPEAK! CONGRATS YOU WIN THE INTERNET!
                    There hope you feel better.

                    FUCKING BULLSHIT LOGIC IS SUPREME!

                • Myles

                  I read a piece by Jesse Rogers that stated Girardi has some Latin American blood in him. Did you read that one too Rebuilding?

          • hansman

            It fits the narrative. The Cubs spend a majority of their time actively working to finish 2nd in all of these free agent chases or sending out “leaks” they tried really hard to do a certain thing.

            Now if only they worked that hard to field a competitive team NOW.

            • Kyle

              They do seem to take a perverse joy in making very large intellectual efforts for very small to non-existent gains. I’ll take interviewing every manager in sight and put it next to “spending three days deciding which foot runners should hit the bag with” or whatever it was.

          • Rebuilding

            Did you see how many people Emery gave interviews to before he hired Trestman? Courtesy interviews are done all of the time

        • Myles

          So your argument, if I’m understanding you correctly, is that the Cubs wanted Girardi. They didn’t get him so they fell back on the notion that they needed/wanted a Latin American manager and ONLY a Latin American manager. To find this ideal candidate, they only picked 3 out of the 6 candidates to be Latin American. The other 3 were simply there as a courtesy. Even into 2nd round interviews, still a courtesy. Once they did their good deed, they moved onto the more serious and better Latin American managers and made their decision.

          Correct me if I’m wrong.

          • MichiganGoat

            Exactly, flawless idiotic logic

          • Spider

            I don’t see a problem in signing a coach who might be able to communicate with a majority of the players not only in language but cultural experience. In fact I think it’s an excellent managerial decision and a compassionate one for the young men we’re trying to build a franchise with. What of it if they “deliberately” tried to hire a Latin American manager? Maybe that manager’s personal experience is exactly what our youngsters need to get motivated?

          • Rebuilding

            See my reply above. And yes, you are pretty much on it based on what we’ve heard. Although I think it’s possible that if Ausmus or Hinch just blew them away they might have gotten the job

            • Myles

              It doesn’t surprise me that people believe this. What surprises me is the conviction in which you defend this without having an inside view of the OF inner workings.

              • Myles

                FO*

              • MichiganGoat

                Dipshit logic is flawless

            • bbmoney

              haha. Awesome.

            • Spider

              What, if we hire yet-undiscovered Latin American players we’re geniuses, but if we hire a non-white coach there’s a conspiracy? Those who would think that way need to check themselves before they wreck themselves. I’m assuming that most here are happy about the hire though.

              • On The Farm

                “but if we hire a non-white coach there’s a conspiracy? Those who would think that way need to check themselves before they wreck themselves”

                Its not really a conspiracy based on nothing. Rebuilding is going off two well respected writers, Rodgers and Gammons. You at least have to give him some credit that he is not completely making it up. A lot of writers and even commenter have agreed that his ability to speak Spanish should be beneficial.

                • Spider

                  I’m not disagreeing with him at all, I’m just talking about how some people are receiving this as a potential negative. Let’s say it is true. What if it’s a positive instead of a negative? In fact I would argue that hiring a bi-lingual coach with a pluralistic background might be exactly what we need.

                  • On The Farm

                    I don’t think anyone on BN would argue that point. Being able to speak Spanish and have the same background as some of the players may in fact help in a managing situation. The argument being made is was it the most important factor, or was it the tipping point between two candidates, and the reason one was picked was based solely because of the LA influence. If the FO thinks he was ‘thee’ guy than I am fine with that. I really don’t have a problem with the Renteria hire.

                    • Spider

                      I’m not saying that he was a great hire because of his background – he was a great hire because of his experience and reputation.

                      But diversity and accessibility are UPSIDES in baseball. Looking for these characteristics is a virtue, not a conspiracy. It’s perfectly good to consider things like can the coach or boss speak in Spanish, when over half of the team and prospects are Spanish speakers. It’s called good sports and good business.

                    • TWC

                      “I don’t think anyone on BN would argue that point.”

                      I’m not sure you’ve read the comments recently…

                    • On The Farm

                      I don’t think Rebuilding ever said that RR’s ability to communicate with the LA player’s native language wouldn’t be helpful. He just said it isn’t the most important factor (I believe he said it’s not as important as bullpen management).

                    • TWC

                      I wasn’t referring to him. There have been others who have done so.

                      But I will reiterate that *no one* has made the claim that Renteria’s linguistic ability or cultural affinity is the most important factor. That claim only exists in the minds of those for whom such a premise is anathema.

                      To which, like, duh.

              • MichiganGoat

                Yes very happy and disgusted that his ethnicity has been this discussed this much. Going to be a long winter.

  • LER

    So how does a supposed Latino agenda square with Theo’s obvious strong interest in Girardi?

    • 1060Ivy

      Was it Theo’s interest in Girardi the driving factor or Rickett’s interest in Girardi?

      • DocPeterWimsey

        Was the interest even there or simply media supposition?

  • Patrick W.

    I find this discussion about Rick Renteria’s ethnicity to be ridiculous.

    I think it’s pretty clear that this FO wanted to add somebody to the field staff who speaks Spanish and might have a history that suggests he has experience communicating with Hispanic players. That’s a far cry from “They hired Rick Renteria because he’s Hispanic and they didn’t consider anybody who wasn’t”

    We know that’s not true by the interviewed candidates. If you have an organizational need for a guy who speaks Spanish and has a history or background that suggests he might communicate well with Hispanic players, what is wrong with considering that as a plus? Each step up the coaching ladder you get, the greater the influence on the player, therefor the greater influence any skill lacking in the organization might have on the hiring.

    The Cubs (nor any organization I can think of) has an organizational weakness of English speaking coaches. I don’t know if Dale Sveum, Chris Bosio, Rob Deer, James Rowson, David Bell, Jamie Quirk, Dave McCay or Lester Strode are Spanish speaking or not, but I doubt if they weren’t that was considered a mark against them. You can say lacking a skill is not a point in the negative column while it would be a point in the positive column when it comes to hiring somebody. I’ve done a LOT of hiring in my time, and at various times I’ve had organizations that lack a certain skill. If the candidates I was interviewing didn’t have that skill, well neither did anybody else in my organization, so how could I hold it against them? If they had it though, how could I not consider it a plus?

    • Rebuilding

      So at a major law firm let’s say where 99% of lawyers are white and from Ivy League or equivalent schools you would consider it a plus if a candidate could relate by being white and from an Ivy League school? That’s illegal

      • Rebuilding

        For instance – why is Mike Singletary still given interviews for HC positions? He was a disaster and crazy to boot. It’s out of respect and the Rooney rule

        • Rebuilding

          Whoops. That was @Brett above

      • Patrick W.

        No, I wouldn’t, but I don’t think you are capable of understanding the difference between considering a candidate based on his ethnicity and considering a candidate based on his skill set which, may or may not be influenced by his ethnicity.

        I think, based on your comments so I could be wrong, that you think the Cubs were looking for a Latin American Manager and that it was wrong to base their decision on his ethnicity.

        I think the Cubs were looking for the best manager available. They identified an ability to speak the native language of a portion of their players as an organizational need. When they identified several candidates and interviewed several candidates they decided on who was best for the job, and they considered at a plus that he helped fill an organizational need.

        Those two thoughts are very different, but I honestly think you consider ethnicity as a major identifier of people, and I think it confuses you when people don’t.

        • Rebuilding

          Way to confuse my point. Which is I don’t think ethnicity should be a factor at all or an “identifier”. Multiple sources indicate the Cubs share that view when either hiring “managers and/or coaches”

          • Rebuilding

            Don’t share that view

          • Patrick W.

            You and I have, actually, zero sources. We have reports who are reporting from their sources. But there’s soooooooooo much we don’t know about the Gammons and Rodgers reports. Could Rodgers and Gammons have the same, single source? Could Rodgers have a single source, and Gammons have a single source, and then feed on each other to become multiple sources? And could the question have been “hey, who are the Cubs going to hire” and the and the answer be “I can’t tell you specifically, but it will be one of the Latin American candidates. This guy will be an asset with is ability to speak Spanish, which the Cubs were hoping to get into the organization”? And are what those reporters saying actually what you’re presenting them as saying?

            I don’t agree with the posters who are being extremely harsh with you. I don’t believe you’ve suggested the Cubs SHOULDN’T have hired Renteria. I don’t think you are presenting anything less than a logical basis for your belief that the Cubs used ethnicity as a factor when deciding who to hire. I just think you don’t have enough information to state that flatly, that you are confusing ethnicity with an organizational lacking skill set, and that you are way more fixated on ethnicity than the Cubs likely were.

  • MightyBear

    Is Renteria Jewish? Maybe we can have a ridiculous post thread about a Latin conspiracy AND a Jewish conspiracy. That was the flavor of the week last week when Ausmus name came up. This is all a bunch of bullshit.

  • C. Steadman

    I haven’t read anywhere that a requirement of the Cubs job was to be Hispanic…i’ve looked on twitter and elsewhere…I’ve seen quotes saying that its a plus that he can speak Spanish and has Latin decent, but not that it was a requirement or the Cubs were only going to hire a Spanish speaker…and of course its a plus…3 of our top 4 prospects are Latin American…and Rick Renteria grew up in California so its not like he can only identify with Latin Americans…he has 30 plus years of pro ball experience…he isnt a sexy hire, but I’m fine with it…seems like a players manager which should bode well with a young team pulling uptalent from the farm system soon

    • On The Farm

      ” he can speak Spanish and has Latin decent…..3 of our top 4 prospects are Latin American…..grew up in California so its not like he can only identify with Latin Americans…has 30 plus years of pro ball experience”

      I don’t know its the beginnings of what looks like a sexy hire no?

      • C. Steadman

        I like this hire alot..it isnt “sexy” in the sense that he’s a big name guy, but I like the experience he has…he climbed the minor league managing ladder, starting towards the bottom, and has had decent success…i know he was manager of the year in ’99 and had a couple other division titles in the mid 00’s in the Padres organization…plus he was managing in the Marlins and Padres minor leagues…both known for producing talent…I’m on board with RR

      • Patrick W.

        I don’t understand your question as it’s written. But I’m not that bright. Can you clarify? Are you saying in a clever way “Doesn’t look like a sexy hire”?

        • DarthHater

          “I’m not that bright.”

          I think you should provide some sources to back up that assertion. ;-)

          • Patrick W.

            I’ll point you to my various posts on this site.

            • On The Farm

              At least he isn’t so butthurt to say he isn’t that bright. Crap I said butthurt now he can’t read this.

              • Patrick W.

                did you say something?

                • DarthHater

                  [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dP8yre1oM4Y/TvyNhBdsNTI/AAAAAAAAJGI/u_Bvy4EoYvg/s400/bhr.jpg[/img]

                  • MichiganGoat

                    Ha LiveJournal is the first option.

                  • Patrick W.

                    Damn it. A workaround.

                    • DarthHater

                      Feel free to vent your frustration by completing the form.

        • On The Farm

          No, Steadman said it wasn’t a sexy hire, so I was trying to turn fragments from his post into one post that would come off as a sexy hire. I mean if you have a manager with 30 years experience, and can communicate with the young talent effectively is that a big part of what your manager does? I know there is the in game aspect, but a large part of the job is managing the players so that they are ready for games and other non game related duties.

          Bullpen decisions, hit-and -run and bunting, and lineup construction is also important, but managing the players and ego’s is what its really all about.

          • C. Steadman

            yeah, I just meant not “sexy” because he isnt a big name guy like a Girardi or a well-known Cubbie like Ryne Sandberg…i dont think its a “sexy” hire but definitely a quality hire

            • On The Farm

              Just trying to spin it into a sexy hire. Maybe it’s just not there.

              • C. Steadman

                nah, I thought it was funny once you explained it…i’m with Patrick and didnt quite understand your first response

                • On The Farm

                  It was probably the lack of punctuation in my last sentence. English is two hard.

                  • C. Steadman

                    maybe thats why the Cubs hired a spanish speaking manager..haha

                  • C. Steadman

                    the new Cubbie way…force all our English speaking players too learn Spanish!! we will become a entire spanish speaking organization..english is way two hard

  • C. Steadman
    • C. Steadman

      i dont know how respected Matt Snyder’s work its but i thought this was a good read

  • LER

    Thanks. It’s a good thoughtful piece.

  • Pingback: Spanish-Speaking Series Turn Weird : Latest Entertainment News – Celebrity Gossip

Bleacher Nation Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. Bleacher Nation is a private media site, and it is not affiliated in any way with Major League Baseball or the Chicago Cubs. Neither MLB nor the Chicago Cubs have endorsed, supported, directed, or participated in the creation of the content at this site, or in the creation of the site itself. It's just a media site that happens to cover the Chicago Cubs.

Bleacher Nation is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

Google+