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jacoby ellsburyJacoby Ellsbury is a 30-year-old outfielder. He derives a great deal of his ability from the prowess of his legs. He has put up fantastic seasons interspersed among injury-filled, ineffective seasons. He is also a free agent. One for whom it has recently been suggested that a seven-year, $142 million contract might be the starting point of discussions.

Sound like a fit for the 2014 Chicago Cubs? They of the relatively limited current resources, the long-term rebuilding plan, and the grim prospects for immediate success?

Of course not. There’s no trick question there. At his conceivable market rate, Jacoby Ellsbury is probably not a great fit for the Chicago Cubs.

And yet, this afternoon, another nationally-reported rumor connects the Cubs to Ellsbury. In some ways, it’s just another in a long string of such reports, ostensibly connecting thin dots between the Cubs’ front office’s background, Ellsbury’s position, the Cubs’ needs, and the market in which the Cubs play.

In another way, it’s the first one of those reports that I actually buy. Here’s the report, courtesy of Mark Feinsand, a Yankees beat reporter for the NY Daily News:

The report discounts the Mariners’ involvement in Ellsbury, notes a possibly thin market for his services, and then – with the limited characters he has left – names only one team that is interested: the Cubs.

Crazy, right? In some ways, the tweet suggests the Cubs are among the most interested teams in Ellsbury’s services. But if you read it more explicitly, you’ll see that the focus is not on the Cubs’ interest, but on their positioning. And that’s why I buy this one.

If we’ve learned anything over the first two years of this front office’s tenure, it’s that they look for surplus value wherever they can find it. It’s no surprise, then, that they’ve been relatively inactive in the upper end of the free agent market, because there’s rarely ever any surplus value to be found there. So it will probably be with Ellsbury.

But if the Cubs lie in the weeds (“stealthily wait in the wings,” if you prefer Feinsand’s language), wait Ellsbury’s situation out, then you never know what might happen in late January or early February. Maybe Ellsbury hasn’t been able to lock down that seven-year deal, and maybe his demands scale back. Maybe other suitors have spent their funds, and maybe his options become constricted. And maybe surplus value appears, and the Cubs pounce.

I have no doubt that this scenario is not only plausible, but likely. Very few teams are in the position to (1) wait out the market entirely, caring not whether a top-end free agent falls to them or not; and (2) have the resources to sign that top-end free agent to a relatively friendly deal. The Cubs, thanks to low expectations for 2014 and revenue that, while it isn’t as strong as it will be, is still enough to float a bigger deal, find themselves in this unique position.

Does that make the Cubs a suitor for Ellsbury? Not really. Not any more than they’d be a suitor for any other free agent that could fill a positional hole, and who fell to them late in the offseason. But, hey. Might as well lie in the weeds, keep in contact, and see what happens.

Do I think the Cubs will actually land Ellsbury with a strategy like this? Probably not. His agent, Scott Boras, made certain to respond quickly to the “thin market” part of Feinsand’s report:

Boras gonna Boras.

Whether the Cubs ever actually make a serious bid on Ellsbury, or even pursue him tangentially at all, I have no doubt that they’d be plenty happy to monitor the process and pounce if there’s a chance for value.

  • http://Bleachernation Lou Brock

    Boras can demand all the money and years he wants from various teams bidding for the services of his clients. However, there is too much evidence on the record which illustrates that older players (30) plus, have not returned in their performance the compensation they were rewarded with.
    In my estimation and I would imagine that of most GM’s in the marketplace, they will not be able to justify to ownership and fans the amount of money and length of deal Boras and his minions are requesting. Too many Hamilton’s, Pujols’ and Soriano’s litter the list of recent big dollar , long term deals of position players with better resumes than current available free agents. Cano may be the exception in this current group but will most likely remain with the Yankees.
    The Cubs would be wise to remain out of this fiscal graveyard and pick up the remaining bodies on the cheap which can fulfill their short term needs to build the bridge to the future stars coming very quickly.

    • Professor Snarks

      Where the value does come from would be winning. If you give someone a 6 year contract, and in the first 4 years he helps you get a few World Series appearances, most likely the fan base won’t care about the last few years being a waste. Unfortunately for the Cubs, the first few years would also be a waste. That minimizes the chance that a 6 year contract for someone over 30 will have much value.

  • Blackhawks1963

    I don’t see any logic to the Cubs getting Jacoby Ellsbury. The “desperate for a headline” reporters and blog wizards can concoct all the Ellsbury to the Cubs connectivity theories they want.

    1. Theo Epstein has been BRUTALLY honest and transparent since day one of his arrival. He has said repeatedely in the last 3 weeks that don’t expect substantial additions and that the game plan is to stick with the plan.
    2. Two, nobody knows Ellsbury the player better than Epstein, Hoyer and McLeod. Outside perhaps Ben Cherington and Terry Francona. Not sure the point I’m making here, but its a point in terms of framing an objective front office analysis of what Ellsbury can legitimately be expected to deliver over the course of the next 6 or 7 years on a new mega contract.
    3. Ellsbury is going to cost at least $125 million. At least. The number might get to $150 million in the blink of an eye too.
    4. Boston isn’t walking away from Ellsbury until their is tangible statement and proof to the contrary.
    5. The Evil Empire, aka the Yankees, lurk. They could turn on a dime and make full scale pursuit of Ellsbury in infamous Pinstripes fashion.
    6. Seattle is going to get rejected by a shitload of top free agents…again. They are a franchise DESPERATE for a face, and Ellsbury is a native son of Washington. Plus the Mariners have deep pockets and might literally come to the conclusion that we have to get Ellsbury no matter what we have to pay to get him. They might even go batshit crazy enough to lure him with $200 million. Their fans are already in an uproar that Jack Z is looking for this year’s friggin Raul Ibanez according to reports !
    7. And most importantly….the Cubs have either Baez or Bryant figuring into the outfield picture relatively soon since only one of them can play 3rd base, Castro is doubtful to be traded (yet) and Alcantara is the ultimate ideal fit at 2nd base (if he makes it). And Almora and Soler are knocking on the door….

    Sorry, I just don’t see it. I think this is a rumor without real sea legs that has run amuk like most rumors do.

    Put me down for Ellsbury either returning to the Red Sox or going to the Mariners.

    • Mike F

      I completely agree with you on this point:

      “Not sure the point I’m making here….” . Truer words have never been spoken. Must twist those who think sitting on hands produces winners. SucH delight to be taken from losing to lose and racking up a 100 loss season, why would anyone not enjoy losing baseball?

      • YourResidentJag

        And yet for all the pontification, after all the hours of dialogue on BN, in the end, the Cubs will do nothing this offseason. :)

        • Mike F

          I think of all the players mentioned, the one that makes the most sense in terns of fa, is indeed Ellsbury. Whether the cult of the children of the plan like it or not, Theo is indeed a believer of free agency. His rhetoric has been the bane of those looking for a true way, but it no way known to mankind matched his M.O.

          i don’t see them trading Baez, he is the most immediate impact of their system. You don’t trade 20 year old kids who hit 40 bombs, doesn’t happen. They can’t by rule trade Bryant, and today with here he is, Soler’s contract makes him unlikely to move. So do the math, the prospect for prospect thing makes Almora more the reasonable man out were they to sign Ellsburry.

          It’ll take care of itself, Theo is under pressure to show improvement maybe even self-imposed.

          • cubes

            we do have a huge hole in the form of a Leadoff batter, 2 clean up hitters, a closer, and a TORP…

            an offseason that included all of
            trade for Cargo or sign Granderson
            Sign Tanaka
            Sign Ellsbury
            Sign Balfor
            Sign Ubaldo if Shark is moved

            would make the most sense…
            except for all that nonexistent money I spent on useless 30 year olds with proven track records.
            and im sure all those moves would “cripple” us moving forward…

            • cubes

              Ellsbury
              Castro
              Cargo
              Rizzo
              Bryant
              Baez
              Lake
              Castillo

              Tanaka
              Shark (Ubaldo)
              Wood
              Jackson
              Villanueva

              yuck look at all that money crippling us

  • Cheryl

    Ellsbury for 3 years at $60 million I don’t buy but if you stretched the contract out to 4 years with an option for the 5th year there might be a possibility. The cubs need to make a splash. Tanaka, Ellsbury might be sufficient to get some of the fan base back.

    • Blackhawks1963

      Jacoby Ellsbury is going to get paid $120 M plus. Not sure where you got the economy price list. $60 M over 3 or 4 years will be the pricetag of a Curtis Granderson.

  • http://www.survivingthalia.com Mike Taylor (no relation)

    Michael Bourn was a 6.2 WAR player in his contract year. His first year of his 4/48 (+1 Option year) contract with Cleveland, those stats dropped: -125 PA, -3 HR, -21 R, -19 SB, -3.0BB%, +1.0K%, -0.020 ISO, -0.11 BABIP, -14wRC+, -4.2 WAR.

    Ellsbury is a unique situation, he’s coming off of a half season in 2012 and a 5.8 WAR season in 2013, but still had 636 PA in only 134 games played. BTW, he had a career high K rate of 13.4% (Bourn’s best K% was 15.8% with the Phillies in ’07). I suspect Ellsbury will be offered 1.25x Bourn’s contract x 3.5% = 5 years, $83.25M w/1 year option from the Cubs if no one comes a callin’…

  • Oswego Chris

    Is Brett a “Blog Wizard”, and if so what kind of powers does he have?

    I think you are correct on Ellsbury remaining with Boston

    • Fishin Phil

      Magic Missile level 3. Not that impressive.

      • DarthHater

        Protection from Chaos level 9. :-P

  • Jason

    I’d much rather them stay firm on there “we are broke for another two years” stance when it comes to hitting. The Cubs have 4 of the top hitting prospects in the minors and just maybe Juniors Lake figured it out and he will be a 280 hitter with good defense as he learns the position. Most of these free agents are OF’s anyway less Cano. I’d rather the go for pitching FA’s and have the “look what we found in the coach” money and get a top of the line one. Sadly, this isn’t the year unless we are trading for Price.

    I think if they can nail down trading Nate and Shark to AZ for Eaton, Archie, and another top pitcher from them it would be grand.

  • Rizzo1684

    Great comment Mike and I agree with your numbers. I would be happy if the Cubs signed him to a 5 yr 90 million deal. I think its what Ellsbury is worth and would provide great leadership for the Cubs. I don’t think the Cubs get him though and someone goes 6 yrs and 110 million.

  • rudymeolismullit

    NO!

  • rudymeolismullit

    Pitching Pitching Pitching!!!

    • DarthHater

      [img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5524/10845391603_3a12cb18cf_o.gif[/img]

  • Cheryl

    There might be another factor in play with Ellsbury, Theo’s relationship with Boston.Would he like to get Ellsbury away from Boston? Probably more than some other teams he’s dealt with in the past. But that desire won’t trump his long term outlook. It would be a fringe player on how much he desires to be in on Ellsbury.

  • rudymeolismullit

    You are all fools to think Jacoby is what the Cubs need right now. He will will be 34-35 if/when the Cubs are ready to contend….Just because we have all these so called prospects does not mean they will all be good players or be ready to contribute immediately. I say sign only pitching. You can get get good fast with pitching….Giants a few years ago!

    • Rizzo1684

      “He will be 34-35 if/when the Cubs are ready to contend.” You realize Jacoby is 30 right? The only numbers I have read on this site were 5/90 and if that’s the case Jacoby would be a free agent when he is 35. I really hope your wrong that the front office does not want to compete for the next 4 years.

  • Blackhawks1963

    Throwing this out there for debate…if you are TheoJed would you inquire on Matt Kemp?!? I know, I know…he’s had two injury plagued years and his contract is monstrous. BUT, he’s only 29 years old and a legitmate MVP caliber 30-30 type ballplayer and provides great defense. He gets high marks also for his work ethic and for being a good teammate. Obviously if Kemp is healthy the price tag to aquire him would be astronomical. But right now he is a great “buy low” candidate for a team that should have ample salary headroom to “absorb” the contract hit.

    Just throwing it out there. The only thing Kemp would cost is $$$$. Would not have to trade a ton to get him and wouldn’t lose a draft pick either.

    • jh03

      Sure, if the Dodgers would eat most of the money and the Cubs didn’t have to give up much.

    • rudymeolismullit

      Only in a Kershaw/ Grienke/ Kemp package

    • ssckelley

      If Kemp is heathy I would be all over this.

    • Mike F

      Kemp is on the block, but he’s a right handed bat and all the prospects are RH so not sure he fits. But he’s intriguing depending on how the Dodgers would eat and what they want.

    • hansman

      “The only thing Kemp would cost is $$$$. Would not have to trade a ton to get him and wouldn’t lose a draft pick either.”

      Only money, and the prospects that you…wait, the Dodgers are willing to give him away for FREE!!! And the Cubs are the only team they will trade him to for that cost?

      Oh, you said would only cost money and the “not-ton” you’d have to trade to get him.

  • rudymeolismullit

    I love the information on this sight, but you are all morons.!!!!!

    • MichiganGoat

      Ah shucks buddy but I you misspelled MORANS.

      • rudymeolismullit

        expand

        • cavemencubbie

          Goat was being nice. It’s ‘site’ not sight. We know who is the moron.

      • The Dude

        Goat, it’s knot polite to call people names for simple spelling errors…

        • cavemencubbie

          Dude; It wasn’t goat who questioned our and your intelligence.

          • MichiganGoat

            He’s making a joke… “knot” get it? There are thymes a sarcasm bottom would be helpful two.

      • Tony_S

        Ahahahhahaha, I still love that mullet

  • Die hard

    Wrong Chicago team Brett.. South siders rumored to go all in

  • Kevin

    It’s hard to get excited about the Cubs going out and spending serious dollars for players after they just dumped Soriano and are still on the hook for the majority if his 2014 salary. Why they gave Soriano away still baffles me, especially since he wasn’t blocking anyone.

    • Tony_S

      A little salary relief, a better chance at the postseason for him, and a lower level pitching prospect in Black. He wasn’t going to put the Cubs in the postseason by himself, and at most was going to eff up our draft pick for the following year by a spot or two.

      Un-baffled?

    • ssckelley

      You forget how bad Soriano was hitting when they traded him? They wanted to use Lake, Sweeney, and Bogasevic so he would have been blocking someone.

      • Tony_S

        Mmmmm. I agree with the second part of your point, they wanted to see what stuck against the wall knowing that Soriano wouldn’t be around a few years from now. But IIRC, he was starting to heat up before they dealt him, and when he got hot, he got HOT.

        No real point, just sayin’.

        • ssckelley

          No guarantee he would have hit that well as a Cub. Besides even if he did what use would those few extra wins have been for the Cubs?

          • Tony_S

            Exactly, hence my “eff up our draft pick” statement earlier ;)

  • Jono

    Scherzer’s price just went up

    • bbmoney

      Like just now because of the vote?

      • Jono

        I would think so

        • bbmoney

          Let’s give front offices a little more credit than to value players based on BBWAA voting.

          Except for the Phillies’ that is.

          • Jono

            “Based on”? No. But I bet it gives the tigers just a little bit of leverage. How could it not?

            • bbmoney

              Easily.

              • Jono

                Haha. Ok….

                • bbmoney

                  Why would front office care what a bunch of old out of touch baseball writers voted?

                  They’ve got the players actual performance that they can analyze and assign value to themselves. “Exciting the fanbase” arguments are way overblown. You know what excites the fan base more than acquiring a former Cy Young winner? Winning. Scherzer isn’t going to help anyone win any more games because he was voted the Cy Young winner than if he’d finished 2nd or 3rd in the voting.

                  Good enough?

                  • Jono

                    See my posts below

                    • bbmoney

                      I’ve seen them. I’m unsure what you want me to do with them. I actually think the candy-bar analogy offered by Hansman was quite elegant and poignant. I’m not sure I can top it.

                      If you think FO’s are swayed by awards voted on by baseball writers who largely have ignored the advancement in player analysis the last couple decades have seen, that’s fine. I simply disagree.

                    • cubes

                      seriously you guys are still arguing about this stupid topic?

                    • cubes

                      1. if im the tigers Im asking for Bryant, Edwards +
                      2. Price make more sense, and Price doesn’t make much sense…

                      so there is no point in us wasting time about arguing Scherzer’s value

                      maybe after Miggy wins MVP you can waste 100 posts about his value too… cause that is relevant to the cubs also

            • mjhurdle

              I would disagree that it adds any value.
              Anyone trading for him knows his stats, and knows how dominate he was this year. They would be trading for the stats and performance, not the Cy Young trophy.

              The only way i can see it changing anything is that it makes Max more of a fan favorite there, and maybe Detroit tries to sell it as “we are going to get negative feedback if we trade him, so you need to pay more to make it worth it to us”.

              • MichiganGoat

                Yeah this… Great minds blah blah blah

              • Jono

                The value is that it excites a fanbase. Lots of value in that

                • MichiganGoat

                  Maybe in spin but only a stupid FO would over spend because he now wears a gold necklace.

                  • Tony_S

                    You get a gold necklace for a CY??

                    Do pitchers KNOW this??

                  • Jono

                    Thats not a convincing argument

            • MichiganGoat

              It might give them more public leverage but I really hope MLB front offices don’t care who does or does not have award A, B, or C. They now who is valuable without any of these awards. Now it does help for future All-Star and HOF voting but if it changes a the opinion of him by a FO then that is a horrible FO.

              • Jono

                Im not saying he’s a better player now. Just that it might cost a little more to trade for him. I think that’s a pretty reasonable idea. It would definitely put some more butts in seats TVs on their games when he pitches. How is there not value in that?

                • MichiganGoat

                  Because that is a foolish reason to make a larger than you would have yesterday. Unless the additional piece is a Tony Campana but why would any care if they have that away or received that.

                  Tigers: “Hey I now you offered XYZ yesterday but now he has a gold medallion so we need more”
                  Other team: “Fine here’s a Tony Campana”

                  • mjhurdle

                    I think that a straight up Campana – Scherzer trade is fair for both sides.
                    One gets a good pitcher, the other gets 150% of the yearly recommended amount of Belly Fire.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Well now that he’s won the Cy Young you’d have to throw in a Bryan LaHair.

                    • mjhurdle

                      good point.
                      thank god Scherzer didn’t win a Gold glove or a Silver Slugger, then we would have to throw in a Sam Fuld too.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Hell win the MVP and you get a Theriot.

                  • Jono

                    You’re not giving a sound counter to my point about increasing fanbase excitement.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      I know we got silly for a second but increasing fan excitement is not a sound reason to over pay today what you were going to pay yesterday. Getting a top pitcher brings enough excitement that having a Cy Young award would tip the scales beyond throwing in an organizational filler ie Campana. Do you really believe adding Max Scherzer vs CY YOUNG Max Scherzer really changes the fan base much? Everyone knew before today that he was a top pitcher today he now has a medal/ornament/statute… nothing else has changed and a good front office is not changing anything because of today.

                    • Jono

                      “much”?? I never wrote “much”. I also never write that it would be a substantial increase. It was be small. But i think it’ll be there. Why do I think that? Bc of I like watching award winners. You may call it dumb, but it happens.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      So again your agreeing that a Campana (and that might be too high) is all the leverage it would get you… and that’s not much leverage at all. Teams can get a Campana for almost nothing whenever they want.

                    • Jono

                      I don’t know the EXACT amount of added value. I don’t even know exactly what defines a C prospect. I don’t know what Campana is worth. I was just trying to convey that its not a lot of value. Again, im not the biggest baseball guy. All I claimed was that his price will be higher now. I know it wont be a top 10 guy, or an impact guy. But none-the-less, I believe the price will be higher. And again, the original point was so small that it does not warrant all this attention

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Okay Jono I think it’s this belief that he has more value and the Tigers have more leverage is why this has gone on so long. A c prospect (one that will rarely even see MLB action) is not value it’s just the free promotional item you get if you spend $100… it’s not valuable. Those meh prospects tacked onto deals are just organization filler being moved to open up space in the minors (think the TWood/Marshall trade, who was that player that I think we sold for international cap space? Someone we quickly forget about). Value and leverage implies that the Tigers can ask for a legit prospect with promise or a 4/5 outfield bench player. The trophy does not change the heart of the deal that’s the point.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Oh Jono if love to have you as a customer… as you check out…

                      Me: “Hey a bunch of crappy old people (voters/sportswriters) have awarded this product as the best product of all, so now it’s worth more than it did a second ago.”

                      Jono: “but I already knew it was awesome and was willing to pay a premium for it”

                      Me: “But now it has a shiny medal on it, so give me MOAR I HAVE THE LEVERAGE”

                      Jono: “Fine you jerk off here’s an extra buck”

                  • Jono

                    youre just saying that it’s foolish without making any real point. No one has yet to make a sound counter to my point

                    • MichiganGoat

                      We are saying a great player is still a great player regardless of the shinny object he just won. You seem to think fans are dumb… “Oh well he won an award NOW I WANT WANT WANT GIMME GIMME GIMME… before today I was like meh”

                    • Tony_S

                      It’s foolish because fans as a whole aren’t that stupid to base whether or not they buy a ticket/jersey/subscription/etc on whether or not the man won a Cy Young.

                      Hardcore fans look at the year he had, and know those awards in and of themselves don’t mean much. Casual fans won’t know what (or for that matter, who) a Cy Young is. And whatever percentage lies in between those extremes is only, at most, going to look and see if Scherzer’s pitching that day and try to sound pseudo-intellectual at the office or in their social circle, they’re not going to change their spending habits.

                      That’s why it was an inaccurate and out of place comment to begin with.

                      Better?

                    • mjhurdle

                      I was just having fun :)
                      but in fairness, you haven’t made a very solid argument either. You state that Scherzer would increase fanbase excitement, but you haven’t supported it with anything besides the fact that you think that would happen.

                      I think it would increase excitement in a *small* part of the receiving team’s fanbase. Fans would get excited to trade for a good pitcher, and to a portion of casual fans, the award is their way of seeing that he is good.

                      Ask yourself, if Chris Volstad somehow received a Cy Young last year, would you be excited if the Cubs signed him and made him part of the rotation?
                      And would you be excited if the Cubs traded for Anibal Sanchez, even though he hasn’t won a Cy Young?

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Okay try this:
                      Yesterday a team is willing to give two top 50 prospects
                      So today
                      Are they willing to offer two top 50 and a top 100 just because he has a trophy? His value as a pitcher HAS NOT CHANGED! Now the Tigers get value because of the sales of merchandise but the new team won’t be getting that.

                    • Kyle

                      [img]http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks.com/wp-content/uploads/Shinny.jpg[/img]

                    • Jono

                      Im going from personal experience. There have been many times when I watch a game because a cycle young, or mvp, or ROY, was playing. I’ve done that for cubs games and non-cubs games. But I guess my personal, first hand, experience isn’t as convincing as using words like, “foolish” and just saying im wrong and assuming that’s good enough

                    • Jono

                      “Cycle” should be “cy”

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Alright I will humbly now to your personal account as sound reason because a smart FO will obviously overpay because a player has won an award. That is sound logic that I cannot refute.

                    • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

                      A lot of fans would have to decide to watch a game because of the Cy Young award to justify a team raising their offer in prospects to trade for the guy.

                      I’m not sure what that number of fans would be, but it would be a big number.

                      Unless we’re talking about a terrible front office. Kansas City would probably chuck in another couple very good prospects, but any fans of that poor team are long since indoctrinated to expect such things.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Now is bow

                    • Jono

                      Im not the biggest baseball guy. Lots of people are bigger fans than me. So I figure if i watch or attend a game bc a certain guy is playing, then many others do the same. And his many extra viewers are a C prospect worth? I never claimed that he’s now worth an extra top 10 prospect. Im sure that an increase of value is fairly small. But I bet it’s there. J bet the tigers get a little but extra now

                      And the amount of responses I got makes it seem like I think it’s a big deal. I don’t. Im sure it’s pretty negligible

                    • mjhurdle

                      “There have been many times when I watch a game because a cycle young, or mvp, or ROY, was playing.”

                      Really? So if the MLB named me RoY, you would start buying tickets just to see me play? It would have nothing to do with how good or bad i was, just the fact that I had the award would make you come out?

                      i cannot speak for you obviously, but i would guess that most people go to see these players because they are exciting and talented. People went to see Puig because he was good, and exciting. They didn’t need a RoY award before they went to see him..

                    • Jono

                      Mj- are you joking? Incase you aren’t, the answer is no. If MLB named a random, non-player, normal person ROY, then let you play one game for some reason….actually, yeah! I would watch that!

                    • mjhurdle

                      good point, it would be a very entertaining exhibition of failure. :)

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Geez so all this for you to agree (as I was arguing) that the most the Cy Young adds to a trade is a C prospect? Or as I said Tony Campana. Getting a team to throw in a filler c prospect is not adding leverage, it’s just getting another piece of organizational filler to shut a team up.

                      Team A: Okay here is our package for Scherzer.
                      Tigers: But he won a Cy Young.
                      Team A: yeah we know he is good that’s why your getting such a great package
                      Tigers: but but but Cy Young… see the pretty picture?
                      Team A: yes he is great that why your getting such a great package
                      Tigers: but he’s now got an award, we demand more
                      Team A: fine here is our scrappy AA player c prospect… happy now
                      Tigers: okay sold
                      ***Tigers after the deal is over: We so used that leverage Tony Fuld was a great find***
                      ***Team A: what a bunch of blowhard if they wanted a Sam Campana so badly we’d give them him for nothing***

                    • Blublud

                      Campana actually had a decent amount of value. He didbring some decent pitching prospects.

                    • Jono

                      “All this”

                      Exactly. The amount of responses I got was way too much for the small, negligible point I was making. Everyone just assumed I was claiming it would be a huge increase in value. I never claimed that.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Oh Blu you know the only reason I said Campana was to get under your skin. And yes Campana is too much pick a bench player on a AA roster as your leverage player.

                    • Jono

                      its like this:a shopping at a store, picking out everything you can afford. Then you get to the check out line and find a couple extra bucks in your pocket and grab a candy bar. Is that candy bar significant to the filled shopping cart? No. But you still buy it and enjoy it. Then you get home and your roommates make you answer questions about the candy bar for hours.

                    • hansman

                      WHY DID YOU BUY THAT DAMN CANDY BAR!

                    • Blublud

                      I wonder how long we can carry on a conversation about a candy bar?

                    • Jono

                      ;) BECAUSE MY PANTS JUST WON THE CY YOUNG!! ;)

                    • hansman

                      Depends, are we talking about a Twix or a crappy Almond Joy?

                    • MichiganGoat

                      But did said dollar bill really give you leverage? Hell no it was just a flippin dollar bill, it didn’t add if subtract value from you purchase it was just a worthless throw in. We are saying the same thing… Good night.

                      Hey did we actually have a civil although silly debate without trollish interruptions? Yeah Team BN! Let’s go!

                    • hansman

                      “But did said dollar bill really give you leverage?”

                      Only if George had a mustache.

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Hey blu that candy bar is worth more than Campana ;)

                      Wow and we are having fun, nobody is throwing a tantrum. Nice.

                    • Jono

                      The extra couple bucks I found (the cy young) allowed me to buy a candy bar that I didn’t have when I walked up to the checkout line. So yes, my purchase (the return from the trade) was a little bit better than I thought it would be.

                    • Blublud

                      I don’t if its worth more then Campy, but it probably weighs more.

                    • Jono

                      ….and I know goats don’t simply disregard candy bars. Im guessing hansman doesn’t, either!! :)

                    • Blublud

                      Jono, the value was already there in your pocket, you didn’t know it. But once the transaction was finalized, you still didn’t receive anything you didn’t pay for.

                    • hansman

                      The correct analogy would be if you bought a Snickers that had a sticker on it saying it won an award for being the best Snickers and paid more for the identical Snickers next to it.

                      And I only care more about candy bars if they are Hamburger Barz

                    • hansman

                      paid more for it than the identical snickers next to it

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Great so we are all in agreement: Cy Young Award = free candy bar or Tony Campana (with lesser speed). Geez Jono if only you started by saying that in the first place ;)

                    • Blublud

                      Hansman likes candy bars, but hamburgers……….

                    • Jono

                      Blu- in the shopping story it was, but not in the baseball part. Scherzer was not a given like kershaw.

                      I don’t even get what hansman was trying to say with his analogy

                    • mjhurdle

                      I take umbrage with Hansman dis-respecting Almond Joys, at least 2 Enjoyment Above Replacement better than Twix according to SugarReference.com.

                    • Jono

                      And nobody likes burgers more than me. You all better be careful before this gets ugly!!!

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Jono Hansman was saying if Snickers #1 has a sticker that says best candy bar and Snickers #2 does not- IT DOESN’T FARKIN MATTER ITS STILL A SNICKERS only a fool would pay more for the exact same flipping thing.

                      Now replace Snickers with Scherzer… see it now?

                    • Blublud

                      Only if you are using flawed logic. Twixhas the 2nd higher war in the game next to only Milky Way according to Candygraphs.com.

                    • hansman

                      A better analogy of mine would be you pick up that candy bar, hand it to the cashier, he puts a blue ribbon around it and you say, WELL SHIT, I’LL GIVE YOU A DIME MOAR!

                      And blub, of course you would say that. Why, cuz all yer opinions are dumb.

                    • Jono

                      Ugh, goat- it doesn’t matter if its logical or not whether people like watching award winners. It happens. If people do prefer buying snickers for the “#1″ on it, then their cost will be a little.higher. higher demand, higher price

                    • hansman

                      “I take umbrage with Hansman dis-respecting Almond Joys, at least 2 Enjoyment Above Replacement better than Twix according to SugarReference.com.”

                      I used to think you were a decent enough guy. Now, you are worse than DieHard.

                    • mjhurdle

                      CandyGraph’s EAR notoriously over-rates the Wrapper Independent Caramel variable though.

                    • Blublud

                      MJ, I chuckled and then could not come up with anything good to reply with, so I guess I lose.

                • Tony_S

                  Seeing as him winning that award was a foregone conclusion, no, I don’t see in any way shape or form how it becoming official changes anything one iota.

                  • MichiganGoat

                    But but but gold is shinny

                    • Tony_S

                      With two ‘n’s even! :-P

                    • MichiganGoat

                      SOO FIPPPIN SHINNNY IT GET ALLL THE EXXXTRA CONSONANTS

                    • Tony_S

                      Heh, I LOL’d

                    • MichiganGoat

                      Don’t you mean LOLLLLLLL’d … okay I’m done tip your servers.

                    • Tony_S

                      Alas, one bridge too far, but fun while it lasted

        • Blublud

          I think his price is the same right now as it yesterday at this time.

          • cubes

            then we should trade for the 4 guys who lost the cy young vote as they are worthless now.

            • Jono

              Brilliant!

  • Another Al Yellon Banned Poster

    Brett, wonderful site. Without doubt the best and most widely viewed Cub site these days. Surpassing the Al Yellon Nazi site.

    Count me in. And respectful in posting.

    Ellsbury? Not at these prices. I’m of the belief to maintain patience and prudence under the Theo master plan. This thing isn’t far from getting very exciting and damned good.

  • mjhurdle

    Whoever the writer is that voted for Wainwright over Kershaw for Cy Young should lose his vote.

  • Patrick G

    I would love to see these moves this year

    Trade Barney+prospects for Porcelllo
    Trade Schierholtz/Shark to AZ for loads of pitching prospects
    Sign Omar Infante or Kelly Johnson
    Sign Tanaka
    Sign Benoit+Balfour
    Sign Chris Young

    These would be some moves that aren’t too crazy in money(maybe Tanaka) and that would allow the Cubs to be somewhat competitive without jeopardizing the future

    • Diamond Don

      All good moves. But if you give Arizona Shark and Schierholz you better get Bradley in return.

  • mjhurdle

    Funny baseball tweet of the day, this time brought to you by Craig Kimbrel:

    https://twitter.com/kimbrel46/status/400766735957368832/photo/1

    • MichiganGoat

      Well done Mr Kimbrel

    • Tony_S

      LOL, now that’s funny

  • Kramden

    “Expect more inexpensive additions to Cubs” – By Jesse Rogers, ESPN Chicago

    • cubes

      he must be talking about the coaching staff

    • Chase S.

      For what it’s worth, it’s Jesse Rogers after all.

  • CubsFaninAZ

    How old is Carlos Beltran right now? What kind of player is he still? Amen. quit with the whole, he’ll be 34 when we contend. Only thing affected by time he is 34 will probable be he only steals 30 bases instead of 50. Cubs still dont have a 30 SB guy or any coming up. I’d be all for the Cubs giving him 5/90 with a 6th year option and incentives like MVP’s and benchmarks making year 6 automatically kick in. If this guy is healthy , he is a game changer. Miguel Cabrera is 30 as well and if you tell me he isnt worth 6 yr contract right now your crazy. Yes I think if healthy Ellsbury can still be effective at 36, just like Carlos Beltran is right now. I always said that was the deal Hendry shoulda went all in for, instead of letting him go to the Mets. But injuries and age made him not “worth it”. to Cubs fans back then too. SMH

    • ssckelley

      Beltran stole 4 bases when he was 34. But if Ellsbury finds power and hits 56 home runs after 35 then they should go all in on him. Beltran is the exception not the rule, and he does not have the same production like he did before 30.

  • mjhurdle

    Chris and Adam ‏@bestof1000 14m
    CB: Mark DeRosa on ESPN 1000 just said that he had no interest in the #Cubs radio job. He wants to spend more time with family.

  • mjhurdle

    Mark Schmetzer from Cincinnati was the only writer to not vote Kershaw 1st for the Cy Young.
    It seems a shame that Kershaw doesn’t get to be the 17th unanimous Cy Young winner simply because some writer from Cincinnati is searching for 15 minutes of fame.

    • Blublud

      Damn. That one extra vote may cost him some money in his contract.

      -Jono

  • cubfanincardinalland

    In Arizona today, Almora made a spectacular over the shoulder catch that had the park buzzing. Friend of mine said he heard a scout say the kid plays center field like Griffey Jr. Also had a hit, and hit a rocket to center field off of Twins pitcher Alex Meyer, who was bringing heat at 99 mph. Soler had a double and a walk. If Mesa wins tomorrow, they will be in the championship game on Saturday.

  • macpete22

    Bluejays expected to make push to trade for Samardzija

    • hansman

      I now award Samardzija the “BN Cy Young Award” and the “Longest Hair on the Cubs Award”!

      • Tony_S

        Damn, now he’s worth way too much to trade.

        • MichiganGoat

          Unless we can get the Jays to throw in a bottle of Founders CBS (Canadian Breakfast Stout) to every member of BN. I’m not settling for a stinking ***insert Canadian candy bar***

          • Tony_S

            Never even tried it, but you had me at “stout”….

            I’m TOTALLY in!!!

            • MichiganGoat

              Oh Tony take look at the glory of CBS http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1199/47658
              And it’s brewed a few miles away from me, but not sure when they plan on releasing it again but I’ll be camping out the night before.

              • Tony_S

                Wow, that sounds awesome, and extra thanks for the cool website, I was not familiar!

            • college_of_coaches

              Had an oyster stout last week – Flying Dog Brewery (formerly of Colorado Springs, now of Frederick, MD. It wasn’t as bad as I was expecting.

              • MichiganGoat

                Yeah I really want to try an Oyster Stout (many breweries make one) but hard to find them here.

      • MichiganGoat

        Oh shit now we have ALL THE LEVERAGE! ;)

        • Blublud

          Yeah. Trade him to LA for Kershaw plus LA will pay Kershaw’s entire next contract.

    • Tony_S

      Link?

  • MichiganGoat

    Okay it was fun gents but good night… I’m so winning an award tomorrow AND GET ALL THE CAMDY!

    • MichiganGoat

      That’s right with my newfound leverage I will demand that henceforth Candy is spelled CAMDY!

    • Blublud

      GN MG.

  • 8800

    Bleacher nation.com was just seen underneath a picture of pat Hughes on the olberman show

  • dan

    I wish you baseball men would realize Acantra is our future trade the other guys he is our top prospect by far

  • carklos

    How about this for 2014? Add these….Garza instead of tanaka, add Ellsbery and resign Navarro. Bring uo Baez. Daily batting order……
    ellsbery
    lake/castro
    rizzo
    baez
    sweeney
    castillo
    castro/lake
    olt
    Rotation.. garza, wood, shark, jackson, arrieta

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