Quantcast

brandon phillipsThere was a time when I really enjoyed Cincinnati Reds second baseman Brandon Phillips because he was so thoroughly himself that he would say whatever was on his mind. He was always comfortable in his own skin, and even if I didn’t agree with him, I like when people give off that vibe.

Then he said some ridiculous things after losing out on the 2012 Gold Glove to Darwin Barney (which were ultimately insulting to Barney), and he berated a member of the Cincinnati media in a completely inappropriate way, and that was that for me.

So now, I really enjoy Phillips because he is a declining embarrassment to the Reds who is under contract for four more years and $50 million. He is currently not speaking to the Cincinnati media because he doesn’t like the way they covered his performance in 2013, which is a completely mature and reasonable way to react.

“I don’t have nothing to say to those cats,” Phillips told MLB.com’s Anthony Castrovince, referring to the Cincinnati media. “They know what the deal is. They just talk about how I was falling off and declining. How the [expletive] am I declining? I had 100 … ribbies [RBI] last year. And I did that with one … hand. And I won a Gold Glove? So how the [expletive] am I declining? Come on, man.”

Yes, how is Phillips declining, indeed …

2011: .353 OBP, .457 SLG, .353 wOBA, 5.6 WAR
2012: .321 OBP, .429 SLG, .325 wOBA, 3.7 WAR
2013: .310 OBP, .396 SLG, .307 wOBA, 2.6 WAR

Don’t see a lick of decline there. And I know I certainly wouldn’t mention it if I were tasked with covering the 32-year-old Phillips daily. Really unbelievable that the Cincinnati writers even considered advancing such a cockamamy theory.

Remember: this is the guy who called his $72.5 million extension a “slap in the face” just last year. That the local media would examine his performance in light of comments like that? Once again, boy-howdy, I just can’t imagine it.

  • Edwin

    I hope he never changes. And stays on the Reds a long time.

    • ssckelley

      He will be a Red for at least the next 4 years. The Reds are pretty much stuck with that contract.

  • andyb

    Even my brother in law, who is a die hard Reds fan, is getting tired of his shenanigans

  • ssckelley

    One thing is for certain, Brett will never be doing an interview with Phillips.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      No, I don’t think it’s likely he’ll be sitting down with me anytime. Considering what he called Trent Rosecrans, I can only imagine how he would dub me. Short, pale m-f’er, perhaps?

      • ssckelley

        If they are “cats” perhaps you are a dog. I love seeing a 32 year old man act like a juvenile.

  • Blackhawks1963

    Talented ballplayer…but a big mouth…seemingly cancerous…and always comes razor close to playing the race card.

  • NorthSideIrish

    Declining OBP and WAR? Pfft. “Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true.” (HJS)

    • Blackhawks1963

      Well…honestly, on this point I do think the sabermagicians get a bit carried away. There aren’t many middle infielders who can flat out rake while driving in 100 runs and winning a Gold Glove in an “off year.”

      Phillips is a world class asshole. But he also is a very good ballplayer.

      • bbmoney

        Phillps can’t either. He missed the flat out raking portion of that by a wide margin.

        His 100 RBIs are just because he had two guys in front of him with 420+ OBPs.

        He is still good. But he’s not as good as he once was, not nearly.

        • Noah_I

          This. RBIs are not an indicator of how well someone hit, but instead part how well someone hit, and part how well the batters in front of him hit. Phillips big RBI numbers were far more the result of him hitting behind two of the best at getting on base in the game than his own (clearly declining) performance.

          Phillips has gone from from a great player to a good player, and if anything happens to him that causes him to lose a half step on defense, he’ll be an average or worse player.

          • Voice of Reason

            RBI’s certainly are an indicator of how well someone hits.

            • bbmoney

              Indirectly….maybe.

              They aren’t nearly as good an indicator as batting average, one base percentage or slugging percentage. Of which Phillips ranked 12th, 13th and 14th respectively among the 17 2b who had enough ABs to qualify per fangraphs leaderboards page. And that’s in a pretty good hitter park down their in Cincinnati.

              • Voice of Reason

                The first sentence statement in Noah_I post is:

                “RBIs are not an indicator of how well someone hit”

                That’s not true. That’s all I’m saying.

                • bbmoney

                  You should read the rest of that first sentence…it’s absolutely true. That’s all I’m saying.

                  • http://www.friendly-confines.com hansman

                    But VOR said:

                    “That’s…true.”

                    • bbmoney

                      heh

                • roz

                  No, it absolutely is true. The only thing you can take from having 100 RBI is that 100 people scored as a result of a ball hit from your bat. You could do this as an excellent hitter, an average hitter, or even a shitty hitter. There is literally nothing in an RBI total that is not better explained by BA/OBP/SLG/wOBA/wRC+.

                  • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                    ^^^THIS^^^ I know it’s hard to let go of the triple crown stats but it’s time. DEATH TO THE RBI!

                    • itzscott

                      Not going to happen for at least another generation.

                      For the vast majority of people over 40 years old:

                      BA-RBI-HR-W-L-ERA

                      Is and always will be the gold standard in rating players.

                  • ssckelley

                    Speaking of that reminds me of Tom Herr’s magical 110 RBI season he had in 1985 while hitting only 8 homers. That Cardinals team was one of the strangest to ever reach the World Series (they lost).

                • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                  No it does not but I’m not going to go over why RBI is a worthless stat.

                • Patrick W.

                  So Shin Soo Choo, who got on base exactly 300 times last year in 712 plate appearances should be downgraded as a hitter because he only drove in 54?

                  Brandon Phillips, who got on base 203 times in 666 plate appearances is to be upgraded because he drove in 103?

            • BT

              No. If you hit a thousand triples with the bases empty, you will end up with zero RBI’s. Other than home runs, RBI’s are entirely dependent on you hitting AND other people getting on base. Yes, you need to hit, but you can’t get RBI’s unless someone else is on base.

              This isn’t really even debated in 2014. Although you could probably get Hawk Harrellson to agree with you.

              • candyland07

                When the Cubs team sport a 300 OBP in team Epstein second year . I guess RBI font really matter. unless its a deep fly ball and the runner tags up from 3rd ,and the player scores. But the Cubs have to have a man on third. OR wait for it Rizzo is up, the game is tied – with one out- bottom of the 9th – a hit , a deep fly ball will. win the game but now Rizzo walks – and the next person LInes on to first – double up Rizzo – In this instance Rizzo is awarded with OBP for the walk. and the who ever the next player is awarded with a higher Babip and The fly ball hitter – well he just won the Game and went backwards in the other stats.

                • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                  Oh my sigh sigh sigh… anyone want to take this difficult to read but completely wrong mess. I’ve got other things to worry about educating people about RBI. But I just LOVE how candy found a way to use this to blame Theo (who in his headwould laugh at you if talked about RBI).

                  • candyland07

                    Sometime the 4 -5 -6 hitter just needs to hit a sac fly. They should be the power bats. When you have a runner at 3rd the goal of course is to get that player home and over the course of 162 games if a player gets 17 Sac RBI – his OBP will suffer and his Babip will suffer since its a fly ball. RBI stats is an indicator that person drives in runs or advances the player by hitting to the opposite side . When you a player that hit 4-5-6 and has a low RBI totals over a course of season – I am sure it because that person was not attacking the strike zone or not confident or able to pull to opposite of the infield.

                    Rbi stats matter it just that they dont tell the whole story and can be misused at times.

                    • Edwin

                      To compare players accurately to determine if there really is a difference, you’d need to compared opportunities. So even raw RBI doesn’t tell us much, even if one subscribes to your line of thinking.

                      Two hitters can both hit in the 4 spot, but have wildly different RBI totals just due to variance in opportunity.

                    • candyland07

                      I meant to say the 3-4 -5 hitter in an inning. but your 3-4-5 should be able to hit a sac fly to get the run. Its the only flaw in OBP. in every game situational hitting matters. and over a course of a season RBI matter. Collecting Rbi may not be fair but geting them is king

                      It a stat that should not be overlooked nor lose its prestige .

                    • TWC

                      “in every game situational hitting matters”

                      Larf.

                    • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                      You best hitter should bat 2 but that’s a whole other conversation.

                    • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                      Baseball is quite simple – GET ON BASE, DON’T CREATE AN OUT. The talk of situational this and sacrifice that is just secondary fodder we’ve created muddy up a very simple goal.

                    • DocPeterWimsey

                      A team gets sac flies as a side-effect of having guys that drive the ball and guys who get on base. A batter should never alter his swing to get a sac-fly: doing that will increase the probability of weak contact for most batters.

                      The teams with the most SF are not teams that have good “situational” hitters: they are the teams that have the best combination of high OBP and flyball hitters. After all, a huge chunk of the variation in SF is explained by HR, which is a product of flyballs, and OBP, which creates SF opportunities.

                    • candyland07

                      Doc you are correct- A higher OBP will create SF opportunities during any game . but a person that goes 0-4 (OBP) and scores two runs is good as well.

                      The person that goes 3/4 ( walks ) and gets a 750 OBP and drives no runs because he trots to first and leaves the guy on third produces nothing for the team in most instances.

                    • DocPeterWimsey

                      That is incorrect. The guy who takes a walk didn’t make an out swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. (Remember, the alternative to walking usually is swinging at bad pitches, and the art to driving a ball is to wait for a pitch that you can hammer.) The guy who takes a walk moves a guy from first to 2nd, and thus turns a single from the next batter from a 1-run single to a 2-run single, and a homer from the next guy from a X-run HR to a X+1 run HR; there is a decent chance that he does the same to a double.

                      Look at it this way: there is a strong correlation between a team taking many more walks that it allows and winning; the correlation between getting more SF than you allow and winning is entirely a by-product of the correlations between out-walking and out-slugging the opposition. No, a SF isn’t slugging: but teams that slug more get more flyballs in all situations, not just “clutch” ones.

                • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                  And I have no idea what this had to do with RBI.

                  • Edwin

                    Its the idea that putting the ball in play can sometimes get an RBI (in this case a game winning one), while a walk very rarely drives in the run.

                    So RBI might be an indicator that certain players have a skill at driving in runs in certain situations compared to other players.

                    It’s still wrong, even by that logic, because since RBI is not a rate stat, it doesn’t take into account the opportunity to drive in runs.

                • Edwin

                  Yikes.

                • candyland07

                  Gentleman everyone of you are correct and i am not in disagreement with any of your thoughts. a person with with a higher batting average is more like likely to drive in more runs If all things are equal.its because he will have a higher contact rate that will offset the outs he creates rather than lets say a person with a low Batting average and has an extremely high OBP VS his Avg – on the flip side the guy on third base is the guy with the higher probability of the OBP. .

                  I d rather have a hitter at the plate with a lower OBP but better AVg, ( and not talking about a 10 to 30 point diffence)
                  but hitters that produce those SF runs will always have a better opportunity to increase thier avg since its a sac.

                  • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                    Oh please great spaghetti monster in the sky you did not just call in batting average to help us understand your logic. And seriously you’d rather have a low OBP hitter with a better BA than the reverse- so what your saying is you’d rather have a guy that is more likely to make am out than someone who gets on base? It’s very very simple- the goal of the hitter is to get on base at all cost. The more hitters on base the greater the chance of scoring a run. It’s not that hard to understand. Now there are times you want somebody with a better chance to hit a double or a home run because maybe the pitcher or Darwin Barney is next to bat (but then a pitcher would just walk the hitter thereby increasing his OBP and increase scoring opportunities but lets not worry about that) but I am island you want your primary goal Is to get the hitter on base. RBI & Batting average are for baseball cards.

                    • candyland07

                      Actually what i said in a one bat scenario a person that hit a sac fly and produces an rbi will be faulted in OBP and Babip. stats only. A person that walks to first base will be awarded points in OBP . in that instance i would rather have the person that created the rbi – than all the moneyball actors came out and defended something i was not argueing against. . RBI created through SF is important and should not be dismissed. But this is true The more SF RbI a player makes will lower a person OBP . and if a player has 17 SF rbi will lower his OBP percentage and sometimes its a good trade off. especially in a 1-0 zero score.

                • candyland07

                  doc you are correct. but we are talking about RBI, for a player to score a player needs to get on base OBP is awesome. When that player is on third I would gladly trade an out for that runner to score

                  • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                    So you are only talking about a sacrifice fly? So you want a hitter that can hit a fly ball? You are really confused about all this.

                  • DocPeterWimsey

                    Well, as Earl Weaver said, play for one run, score one run; play for three runs, win the game. If you want your offense to generate enough runs to make it easy for your team to win 90 games, then get guys who will keep the same approach in a SF situation as others: that creates enough 2 and 3 run innings that it makes up for the lost 1 run innings.

                    It also makes the opposing pitchers’ jobs a lot harder: batters taking your approach become much easier outs and probably improve the pitcher’s chances is escaping the inning unscathed.

                    • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                      Thank you Doc, as I’ve been saying baseball is quite simple: GET ON BASE, DONT RECORD AN OUT. If the hitter at bat has the goal of hitting a deep fly ball out then the hitter has already made the other team’s job so much easier. You get 27 previous outs no need to purposefully give them away. It’s just bad thinking.

                      And yes there are those few and far between moments when all you want is one run is all you need but giving up an out is bad baseball.

                    • DocPeterWimsey

                      There is no gratitude quite like caprine gratitude, they say.

                    • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                      It’s is of the Highest of All Orders of Praise ;)

                  • candyland07

                    Nor any better solution that a caprine wether

            • Noah_I

              You should read beyond the first phrase. They are only part how well someone hits, and part how well the batters in front of him hit. And those who use RBIs as a significant indicator of how well a batter hits tend to ignore the latter part of that.

              So are RBIs in some way an indicator of how well a player has hit? Sure. But they’re about the 30th best option on that front.

            • http://www.friendly-confines.com hansman

              RBI totals are fun to look at to see how useless it is.

              2009 Miguel Cabrera – 103 RBIs – OPS of .942 – OPS+ of 144
              2011 Miguel Cabrera – 105 RBIs – OPS of 1.033 – OPS+ of 179
              2013 Brandon Phillips – 103 RBIs – OPS of .706 – OPS+ of 92
              2013 Joey Votto – 73 RBIs – OPS of .926 – OPS+ of 154

              Stats should always answer some useful question. RBIs don’t answer the question of “How good is Player X at the plate and how does he compare to the other players in the league” it answers the oft-asked question “How many runs scored when Player X stepped to the plate (including runs walked in but not runs that scored as a result of a GIDP) because they were lucky enough to have runners standing on the bases when they stepped up to the plate?”

              • Patrick W.

                In this month’s Vine Line as they were going through the positions and the players, they didn’t even put RBIs in the stats. Just didn’t even include them. Small step towards sanity.

                • Edwin

                  The Cubs have been doing their part to limit RBI both on and off the field!

                • Voice of Reason

                  Still reading vine line? What about ranger rick?

                  • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                    Highlights – thank you very much, I like the card games.

                  • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                    And just to be clear Highlights, Ranger Rick, & ZooBooks no longer acknowledge the RBI.

                  • Patrick W.

                    Wait, I’m not the guy with the so simple-minded childish brain I am willing to (in a public forum that literally anyone can read) profess that “RBI’s certainly are an indicator of how well someone hits”

                    The last two issues of Vine Line featured some really excellent pieces by Sahadev Sharma, among other entertaining fluff.

              • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

                You know this board is getting smarter when nobody brings up CLUTCH when talking RBI.

                • ssckelley

                  Ok, so who had Goat in the Clutch Pool?

                  Dammit, I had bet on Blub.

                  • Fishin Phil

                    I was gonna bet on Goat, but I choked.

  • https://twitter.com/LouHemp beerhelps

    That dude is one grade-A D-bag.

  • http://www.twitter.com/justinjabs @justinjabs

    What an effing prick. One additional quote that wasn’t mentioned (probably because it wasn’t that big a deal in comparison to these other displays) was when Phillips said he needs to play the game with flair because “baseball is boring.” Come on.

    • Edwin

      I actually agree with him on that, though. Baseball is boring, and I like it when players have more flair.

      • miggy80

        there is already a league with a boring sport where the players have “flair”. It’s called the NFL.

  • Jon

    I don’t think Phillips looks past ice age stats like RBI’s, so in his mind, he truly believes what he says.

    • Voice of Reason

      The only stat Phillips has to look at is his bank account.

      • https://twitter.com/dwoytek dw8

        Though, he clearly cares about more than his bank account, otherwise he wouldn’t be so defensive about his declining offensive production.

  • NorthSideIrish

    Missed the Bryant HR, but I got to see James McDonald pitch.

  • Edwin

    As much as I enjoy listening to games on WGN radio, those ads with fans singing “go cubs go” or “Take me out to the ballgame” are amazingly terrible. It’s almost as bad as the stupid “lets go cub-bees” that they’d throw at the end of every station ID break.

  • Darth Ivy

    (come on, Darth Ivy. Think of a way to defend him)

    Uh…..well….someone…if……but you….since….shit.

  • ruby2626

    didn’t that Korean who signed with Texas bat in front of him. Easy to get RBI’s when you have a guy with a .450 OBP batting ahead of you all the time and Joey Votto some of the time.

    • Featherstone

      You’re thinking of Shin-Soo Choo and his .423 OBP and Votto’s .435 OBP is certainly the reason he had 100+ RBIs

  • bushybrows74

    I suspect that if he was Caucasian, drove in 100 Runs and played Gold glove defense his comments would be considered eccentric rather and hard nosed rather than cancerous.

    • BT

      Find me an example, and we will discuss.

      • Jon

        Ty Cobb

    • Fishin Phil

      I suspect that he would be considered a nut job even if he was purple with pink polka dots.

    • Darth Ivy

      the term “Caucasian” is racist. Not all white people are from the Caucasus region. It would be like saying that all Asian people are Chinese. Or all Africans are from the Congo.

      • TWC

        “Racist”? Are you kidding? “Racist”?!

        It may not be an accurate label, but it sure as hell isn’t a racist one.

        • Darth Ivy

          making a judgment based on skin color isn’t racism?

          (I don’t actually care. I’m just pointing out the irony)

          • TWC

            It’s not a “judgement”; it’s a “misnomer”.

            Get a “dictionary”.

            • Darth Ivy

              It’s judging that people are from the Caucasus region simply because they’re white. And I wrote that the term is racist, not the people using it.

              • itzscott

                Can we stop this already with the morality police determining what’s racist and isn’t racist on this blog???

              • TWC

                That’s a creative definition of “judging”, one I strongly suspect you’re clinging to in order to avoid watching your use of “racist” flitter away.

                • Darth Ivy

                  Nope, just going by the real definition

                  judg·ment noun \ˈjəj-mənt\

                  : an opinion or decision that is based on careful thought

                  : the act or process of forming an opinion or making a decision after careful thought : the act of judging something or someone

                  : the ability to make good decisions about what should be done

              • Greenroom

                I have studied racial and ethnic relations for many years. I have taught minority group relations courses at several universities. Can we please just move on from this discussion.

                Attempting to identify someone’s race is not racist.

                Wish I could see Bryant’s home run. Go Cubs~

                • cavemancubbie

                  Attempting to identify someone’s race is not racist, just a waste of time. My family history has evidence of American Indian and African black blood as well as a possible horse thief. What the hell does that make me? How much horse thief makes me a horse thief?

                  • TWC

                    “How much horse thief makes me a horse thief?”

                    … if a horse thief could chuck wood.

                    (BTW, horse thieves are notorious racists. HTH.)

    • Patrick W.

      Ask Jeff Kent about that.

      • BT

        Well done.

    • http://www.friendly-confines.com hansman

      I know Ty Cobb usually gets called “eccentric” for his wacky antics.

      We, recently, had a lovely discussion about the lovable Marge Schott and her sillyness.

      • Edwin

        It seems like Ty Cobb normally gets brought up as the most terrible person in the HOF. I always think of his repuation as being more of a racist asshole than eccentric.

        • http://www.friendly-confines.com hansman

          [img]http://www.personal.psu.edu/mem9/blogs/mark_e_milliron/images/Implied-Facepalm.jpg[/img]

        • CubsFaninMS

          The Cubs very own Cap Anson is certainly a heavy contender to Ty Cobb. He almost single-handedly prevented black players from joining Major League Baseball far before the ’60’s. Definitely a racist fella. Read “Only the Ball Was White”. Very interesting book about the Negro Leagues.

      • Darth Ivy

        he was both racist and downright crazy

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      Ian Kinsler just got blasted for some comments, and I didn’t hear anyone calling him eccentric. Many worse names than that.

      Phillips’ issue is what he says, not how he looks.

    • CubsFaninMS

      I suspect that if we are whipping out the race card in an online chat room to compare whether one race is deemed “cancerous” and the other “eccentric” by conducting the same action, then perhaps it is time you return the race card to the concession stand for a free Coke.

  • candyland07

    .246/.293/.336 slash line (.278 wOBA) The Cubs 2bman career slash line has also trended downward for 3 years as well and is not worth the embarrassment of detailed . Last year this Guy had something like 11 save runs yet still posted .a mere 0.4 war.
    Terrible. terrible and terrible and with out those 11 saved runs -Terrible- not unlucky terrible. Terrible.

    • Noah_I

      I don’t think anyone is saying that Darwin Barney is a better overall player than Brandon Phillips, or ever has been. But, over the past two seasons, he’s been a better defensive 2B than Phillips. Even with Phillips declining, he’s a vastly better offensive player than Barney.

      But Phillips’ contract is a bad one if he continues to decline, while the Cubs are paying Barney $2.3 million this year and have no obligation beyond this season.

      Now, if they were both on 1 year deals for the amounts they’ll be paid in 2014 ($11 million for Phillips), I’d much rather have Phillips, even with the price difference. For the situation the Cubs are in, though, and considering Phillips has 3 years and $39 million left on his deal after 2014, I’d rather have the Cubs have the situation they are in with Barney, who will near undoubtedly be non-tendered after 2014. If Barney is still a Cub after 2014, it’s as a backup infielder on a reduced rate. The Reds have no choice but to keep and pay Phillips through 2017, even if he continues to decline to the point where his production doesn’t make up for his rants.

      • candyland07

        But when its all said and done Phillips is a meanie that can still produce. Would i want him on this team – only his production numbers count and compared to our current 2b that has played that position for the last three years as well Team Barney o-161-1against team Phillips 161-0-1 giving Barney a Tie well it was kindness..

        And no i do not want Phillips on the team- but i dont feel Barney should be on the team as well.

    • https://twitter.com/dwoytek dw8

      I want what you’ve ingested.

  • bushybrows74

    Jeff Kent was not a gold glover and Caucasian is not a racist term. I think that Brandon Phillips is a goof, but if he were white, many would find his antics much less offensive.

    • Edwin

      Why do you think if he was white people would feel any different about him calling a beat reporter a fat mother f**ker? I think regardless of his skin color, his actions are offensive, and if were white, people would them just as offensive. Why do you feel they wouldn’t?

    • Patrick W.

      Jeff Kent is a potential Hall of Fame player and nobody didn’t find his antics not offensive because of that. Kent is a clearly superior player to Phillips, has more to argue on than Phillips does, and was considered (rightly) a jerk. I think there are plenty of times a white player can get away with things a minority player cannot get away with.

      Caucasian might be technically racist, but it’s not used as a slur, or to denigrate, so I wouldn’t call it racist at all.

      • Patrick W.

        Man I wish I would have completed my edit of that first sentence.

        “Jeff Kent is a potential Hall of Fame Player and nobody found his antics not offensive because he is white.”

      • Edwin

        “Nobody didn’t find his antics not offensive”

        What?

        • Patrick W.

          See my immediate response.

        • Patrick W.

          I mean, I didn’t not make no changes to it.

    • CubsFaninMS

      Phillips is like Carlos Zambrano (Venezuelan), Ian Stewart (Caucasian American), and Milton Bradley (African American): a cancer in the clubhouse. Their selfish actions are not indicative of a team player and are a distraction. You can throw the race card out there all you want, but Phillips is a cancer. His race and “race protectors” such as yourself will not exonerate him from that. Your semi-passive, informal comparison of “if he were white” has no positive outcome.

      Oh, and I was sure to point out everyone’s race above in my examples. It’s apparent how important that is to you.

      • Serious Cubs Fan

        Absolutely not. Big Z had some bad moments, but had a hell of a lot more class then Phillips. Big Z had passion but that lead him to lapses of judgement.

      • ClevelandCubsFan

        Yeah I’m not sure this is true. Teammates seemed to generally like Z–maybe not toward the end. Stewart wasn’t in the clubhouse enough to know. He seemed to have some good friends on the team and was very supportive of his teammates on Twitter.

  • candyland07

    Also Just because a person used the term Korean it is not a racist term. . If i had to guess it was because it was easier to just type Korean rather than actually look up the correct spelling of Shin-Soo Choo.

    Also my time spent with people from Korea prefer Korean than Asian . I never get insulted if someone call me American – i was born in United Stated of America.

    • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

      MERICA!

    • Featherstone

      I’m Korean and I dont think anyone was making the argument that saying someone is Korean is a racist term. I don’t fault him for saying “that Korean guy” I just happened to know who he was referring to and wanted to agree that Choo’s and Votto’s OBP were largely the drivers of Phillips RBI totals.

    • Featherstone

      Also, in my experiences, the reason asian people prefer to be referred to by their nationality rather than their overarching racial group is that they take pride in being of that nationality…… that and I have found that Asians in general are the most racist toward other Asians.

  • candyland07

    Merica ! is the reason The GOP can stay in power . but yeah merica can be viewed as plain old dumb – no race color or creed just an over- bearing silly and sometimes sick attitude. .

    • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

      Or we have a sense of humor?

    • http://www.friendly-confines.com hansman

      There’s plenty of folks under every banner imaginable that believe silly and dumb things. It’s not just limited to the GOP.

      • Internet Random

        This reminds me of the John Stuart Mill quote:

        “Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.”

      • Edwin

        America is all about equal opportunity when it comes to stupid.

        • http://www.friendly-confines.com hansman

          Ha. I was reminded of that recently when An economist said that doing “thing a” would be an overall negative for those impacted but we should do it anyway.

    • Internet Random

      And piss poor English skills, apparently.

      • DocPeterWimsey

        Hey, it’s the English I blame: they started the whole trend of sending all of the dumb people over here…..

        :-)

        • http://www.friendly-confines.com hansman

          Hey…they’re the ones that created words like knife and knit.

  • JC Martin

    I did not watch enough Reds games last year to know if Phillips is declining.
    When I was a young player, I knew what to do when my coach told me “to field better or drive in more runs.” It must be challenging for the modern player to know what to do when he is told to “increase his WAR.”

    • DarthHater

      “Drive in more runs, kid.” That’s one hell of a brilliant coach you had there.

      • http://www.michigangoat.blogspot.com MichiganGoat

        Yeah especially when driving in runs has nothing tondo with your AB, it has more to do with the players before you. Now if he said GET ON BASE I’d be fine with that.

    • Edwin

      I don’t think a coach would ever tell a player to “increase his WAR”.

    • Patrick W.

      This is an exact example of the problem with RBI. The coach who told you to “drive in more runs” did you no favor at all. You say you knew what to do… what did you know? What did that phrase tell you? Did it tell you to get hit by a pitch when the bases were loaded?

      No coach would say “increase your war” to a player. He might say “here’s a measurement of how valuable you are to the team. The higher the number, the more valuable you are than any old guy we pick out of AAA. How do we measure that? By taking a look at the totality of the results of what you do when you’re batting. So you want to be more valuable, be better at batting. How are you going to be better at batting? Don’t swing at pitches you can’t hit.” Now you know what to do. You might not be able to do that, but at least you have an idea of what you can do.

  • ssckelley

    An argument about RBI’s breaking out this early? We don’t need no stinkin spring training! Here on BN we are already in mid season form.

    Bring on opening day!

  • Assman22

    Cubs are now “in” on Ervin Santana…Santana is hesitant however on NL, having never pitched there…BJ’s still after Shark…both clubs still have each others’ offers on the table…AA with the obvious smoke screen “we’ll go with one of our young SP’s”…AA knows his team could very well be in the AL East cellar if he doesn’t make a move to improve…side bar: Cubs will ditch Murphy if/when Olt is given MLB 3B gig…Valbuena/Bonafacio will man the utility duties…

    • Javier Bryant

      I never know if you’re serious or not but, if you are that’s interesting

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

      If the Cubs land Stroman and Norris, I’d be happy. Toss in Gose and I’d be very happy.

      I don’t expect to be very happy.

      • Javier Bryant

        That would make me happy too. I would even be fine with Sanchez instead of Stroman.

        • http://www.bleachernation.com Luke

          I doubt Toronto will part with Sanchez, which is understandable.

    • spearman

      On a 1 year?

      • Jason P

        I think I’d actually prefer a two year deal… not sure Santana would, though. Signing with the Cubs on a 1-yr. deal could have major benefits for him. The Cubs could promise to either trade him or extend him by midseason, hence disattaching him from draft pick compensation next year, when he could hit the market at 32 and still be looking at a deal in perhaps the Edwin Jackson range if he repeats last year’s performance.

        • spearman

          Me too!

      • http://bleachernation.com woody

        http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24472284/report-ervin-santana-now-seeking-one-year-deal-wants-to-sign-quickly
        There’s the link. No way in hell we sign Santana unless Shark is moved. I don’t believe it.

        • Javier Bryant

          Yeah, it was reported he was looking for a team with a good offense. We definitely don’t have one of those

          • Jason P

            I think Santana’s past the point where he can pick and choose the right circumstances. If the Cubs offer something in the range of 1 year and 10 million, it might be his best offer.

            Also, there’s a very limited market for him on a 1 year deal. Nobody is going to want to give up a first round pick for a 1 year contract. The Mariners come to mind as a good fit, but no one else immediately comes to mind as a good fit.

            • http://bleachernation.com woody

              Why would we want to give up a second round draft pick to sign a guy for one season? It ain’t gonna happen!

          • ssckelley

            But the Cubs will have a good offense.

            Spit firing here but would 5/50 get Santana?

            • DocPeterWimsey

              Again, last year was an anomaly for Santana: if you look at what he’s done over the past 5 years, then why would you want him over the next 5?

              Santana is on the market still in large part because most people suspect that his 2013 performance was a bit of a fluke.

              • DocPeterWimsey

                Just to show what I mean, here are his xFIP numbers:
                2009: 4.55
                2010: 4.31
                2011: 3.93
                2012: 4.48
                2013: 3.69

                So, what were are looking at is a guy who’s xFIP is probably going to be 4.1±0.4. If he’s in a park that hurts his FB:HR ratios (which Wrigley often is), then his FIP is going to be higher than that, and thus his expected ERA is going to be higher than that.

              • ssckelley

                I was actually looking at his entire career when I suggested 5/50, the 5th year mainly to spread out the money not because I expect him to be worth $10 million at the age of 35. I see a decent middle of the rotation type of starter in Santana.

                The perception that Wrigley hurts FB:HR ratios, is it real? I ask that because it seems the wind blows in more than it blows out, and I could be wrong on that. Plus do you adjust that xFIP coming over to a league without the DH? That is worth at least 2 outs per start.

                • DocPeterWimsey

                  That is a good question! I just tried to do a search to find HR:FB ratios per ballpark, and I couldn’t find those numbers. They must be out there, though.

                  As for xFIP dropping with the switch to the NL, yes, it would: good catch! Basically, given that NL ERAs are about 0.15 lower than AL ERAs, you are looking at an xFIP of about 3.95±0.4.

                  Still, we are talking about a guy who is a big upgrade for the #4 or #5 starter on a good staff. Now, if Santana does take a “consolation” contract (he was searching for a $100M deal initially!), then he’ll just want a 1-year contract in hopes of putting up another 2013 year. *Then* his (new!) agent(s) can try to convince teams that he’s been good for 3 of the last 4 years, and that he’s thus worth a many million per many year deal.

                  I wouldn’t bet on Santana doing that, however.

  • Assman22

    Cubs FO “Plan” has always been to deal Shark before Opening Day…they know they can always wait til the deadline if they don’t…Theo/Hoyer still holding out for big return package and have not budged…AA has a bit but not to Theo’s demands…D-Backs are out on Shark for now but may re-visit at the deadline…Royals/Rays/O’s also out…

    • Jason P

      If you’re right about this, I’ll never doubt you again :D

      • Jason P

        Meant this to be in reply to the Santana rumor…

  • http://bleachernation.com woody

    I just read a report today that Santana is willing to take a one year deal. Blue Jays would lose the 47th pick to sign him. B’more is in a position to lose very little also. It will be a cold day in hell when Theo makes that deal. Maybe if the O’s sign Santana then the BJ’s will still be in the market for shark.

    • Jason P

      Why don’t you want him?

      • http://bleachernation.com woody

        If there was not draft pick compensation attached to him I would have no problem with it.

        • Jason P

          A second round pick isn’t all that valuable. The chance of finding a starting caliber player where the Cubs pick is about 8%.

          Moreover, if the Cubs flip Santana at the deadline, they’d recoup at least that value and probably more. I’d rather have Arrieta and Strop than Zastryzny at this point, and Feldman was an inferior pitcher to Santana. It’s not at all out of the question we could wind up fetching a top-100 prospect for him.

          Plus, signing Santana would make the team better — probably 2-3 wins better — which is at least worth something.

          • CubsFaninMS

            I mostly agree with you but a few things to consider…

            (1) Our front office highly values their draft picks. My guess is they have a great deal of confidence in that #2 pick.

            (2) Didn’t Feldman have something like a 3.32 ERA when we traded him? He was very solid. If Santana were to repeat that performance, I’d think that would be expected.

            (3) Wouldn’t that be 1 to 1.5 wins if we traded him at the deadline?

            Good point on Arrieta/Strop over Zastryzny. Sort of puts things into perspective and puts up a good argument for taking a chance on Santana.

            • DocPeterWimsey

              Don’t expect Santana to have a 3.3 ERA at the deadline. His performance last year was a bit surprising: it was the best year he’d had since 2008, and one of only two years that passed for good (really, not bad) over the last 5 seasons.

              Feldman actually has posted better (and less variable) basic numbers over the last three seasons than Santana has. Really, Santana is worth much only to a team that already has three good starters and nothing after that.

              • Jason P

                I don’t want him on a 5-year deal. I was just speaking of his theoretical value on a 1- or 2-year deal, when he’s a fair bet for at least a 2.0+ fWAR.

          • ssckelley

            You’re right a 2nd round pick rarely gets you a good player but the draft pool money is what teams value.

  • Fastball

    I don’t get why we care about Phillips? Why bother with this article? We are not Reds fans so why do we care what he says or does. He means nothing to me as a baseball fan and a Cub fan.

    I would gladly exchange a 2nd round Draft pick for Santana. We devoid of pitching in the worst way. Santana is the only shot at a stater this year and maybe next. Sign him for 3 Years and maybe we are competitive 2 of those years. Maybe that convinces Shark to resign with us. We don’t anything in our system that projects above a 3. Might as well sign him now because there isn’t going to be sit for free agents this off season and Santana only costs money and lots of a 2nd round pick. That’s not a big deal in my opinion. Why stoop to a level that we talk about another organizations problem player. We have had plenty of our own. Probably more than most in recent years.

    • BT

      Money will convince Shark to resign with us. Signing other pitchers will have no effect.

      We talk about Phillips because this is a baseball site, and because he has been peripherally linked to the Cubs at times. As always, you are welcome to ignore it.

    • http://www.bleachernation.com Brett

      “I don’t get why we care about Phillips? Why bother with this article? We are not Reds fans so why do we care what he says or does. He means nothing to me as a baseball fan and a Cub fan.”

      The Cubs play the Reds from time to time. Also, I write about interesting MLB things from time to time. Have for years. Fortunately the title of the post tips you off as to its content, so it’s pretty easy to avoid if you don’t want to read it. And then comment on it.

      • waittilthisyear

        further, purporting to know what “we” care about collectively, especially when your username is one i (perhaps “we?”) don’t recognize, will not win you much favor round these parts

        • DocPeterWimsey

          Fastball posts here often enough. Moreover, he did state that he didn’t understand why we should care, not that we don’t care: there is a subtle difference.

          However, at this point Fastball should now know why we should care!

      • ClevelandCubsFan

        Plus when he disses Barney by running his mouth off, every Brandon Phillips mouth running story becomes part of the narrative that we as Cubs fans don’t like him.

      • Fastball

        I wasn’t disappointed that you wrote about him so much as I don’t think he is worth the attention. Your story is spot on and he is a jerk 6 ways to Sunday. Basically he doesn’t deserve a story. At first I thought we werent throwing stones from our glass house. But imre-read the story and interpretted it differently 2nd time around. :)

  • 70’s Cub

    The Cubs are not giving away any picks and/or the money that goes away by signing Santana. I respect the Cub fans that are pissed, I am in favor of drafting more young talent because I think this FO is doing their homework every round is serious to them. I can wait as I have been waiting since the early 70’s.

  • YourResidentJag

    Well, the Cubs game is blacked out here in Iowa despite the fact that it’s an Angels telecast. Shouldn’t it be blacked out in S.Cali. Gotta love MLB.

    • Serious Cubs Fan

      How do games get blacked out when you pay for the MLBTV package? How does that work?

      • YourResidentJag

        This was on MLBNetwork. Since I’m thrown for a loop on this one, I’d said I used to think I knew about how it works. Now, I’m unsure.

    • ssckelley

      It is actually the opposite, SoCal can watch it but it is blacked out here. But I find it odd they restrict spring training games.

  • OlderStyle

    Speaking of non-Cubs players, anyone see Bryce Harper’s spring training Thor-like physique replete with “ped free” t-shirt? Look ma, no back acne!
    When I put on 15 pounds in the winter it certainly doesn’t look like that.

    • spearman

      Yeah , the Redskins could use another linebacker.

  • bsblldrm

    While we’re on the topic of Brandon Phillips, I tweeted him a bunch of times last season giving him crap about how Barney’s better than him, which we all know is true, and so he DM’d me this after I tweeted him enough lolololol

    Sep 9
    And what are you smoking? Must be some good stuff
    Brandon Phillips
    Sep 11
    Please pass me that shit you smoking!
    Brandon Phillips
    Sep 15
    What is the name of that shit you smoking? Must be some powerful shit

    • DarthHater

      At least he didn’t call you fat.

      • bsblldrm

        That’s always a plus

Bleacher Nation Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. Bleacher Nation is a private media site, and it is not affiliated in any way with Major League Baseball or the Chicago Cubs. Neither MLB nor the Chicago Cubs have endorsed, supported, directed, or participated in the creation of the content at this site, or in the creation of the site itself. It's just a media site that happens to cover the Chicago Cubs.

Bleacher Nation is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

Google+