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mlb logoInfo, fun, and salient bits from the last few days of baseballing …

  • The Tigers’ shortstop issues are back in the fore after they let Alex Gonzalez go. Christina Kahrl wonders what they’re going to do the rest of the way, and spends a healthy portion of her piece discussing the possibility of Darwin Barney.
  • Bryce Harper was recently benched for failing to run out a grounder (after missing time with a quad injury, mind you) by his manager, Matt Williams, who very publicly wrist-slapped his young star for a lack of hustle. That’s a silly story in its own right, but one Nationals writer has implied that Harper missed time with his quad injury so that he could actually miss facing Jose Fernandez with a nine-game hitting streak on the line (Hardball Talk). It’s a pretty incendiary accusation, but nothing likely comes of it. Just another interesting wrinkle to the Bryce Harper story. I find him fun to follow, for all kinds of reasons.
  • Another Around the League, and another torn UCL. This one belongs to Yankees starter Ivan Nova, whose ulnar collateral ligament is only partially torn, and there’s no official word on what’s next. Tommy John pretty much always follows a tear of the UCL, so the Yankees may be down another starter.
  • Speaking of being down a starter, Chris Sale hit the DL with a strained flexor muscle strain, which is right down there in the forearm/elbow area, but an MRI showed no ligament damage. Everyone’s always waiting for the other shoe to drop because of Sale’s unique delivery (and what appears to be extremely high arm stress), but he’s dealt successfully with these kind of minor arm issues in the past.
  • I assume you’ve seen the Carlos Gomez/Gerrit Cole bench-clearing brawl incident, kicked off by Gomez doing what Gomez does (enjoying his hit) and Cole perhaps suggesting that Gomez shouldn’t have done that. I don’t approve of Gomez turning a verbal altercation into a physical one, and I also think he was a dope for pimping a triple that would have been an easy inside-the-park home run if he’d run out of the box, but I also think we gotta tone down the anti-celebration rhetoric. Guys can have a little fun out there.
  • Grant Brisbee spotlights and discusses the worst swing of the year so far (which, given the hit-and-run context, might also be one of the best):

  • Eno Sarris writes a fantastic piece on the aging curve of various pitcher skills. Much like we’re seeing with various hitting skills, in today’s environment, there are no longer those late-20s peaks – only gradual, and then pronounced, declines.
  • Astros manager Bo Porter was pretty pissed off when Jed Lowrie bunted against them with a seven-run lead in the first inning to beat the shift (bunting to be the shift discussion involving Anthony Rizzo earlier today). But, as Lowrie points out, it’s pretty insane to, on the one hand, believe the game is close enough that it’s worth shifting on a guy, but then throw at him because he dared to try and bunt to beat that very shift.
  • Astros prospect Delino DeShields, Jr. was hit in the face by a pitch, which caused a fair bit of damage, though he’s staying positive about it. Ever wonder what a fastball to the face does? Well, suffice it to say: he doesn’t have the ball tucked inside his cheek, despite appearances to the contrary.
  • I just … it’s … it’s so beautiful and glorious. Please keep playing, and please stay in the National League, Bartolo Colon:

  • joejoe238

    With how much Barney to the Tigers has been talked about, you have to think that it won’t ever happen. It seems like a good fit, but if they were interested you have to think it probably would have happened by now. If anyone is interested in going to tonight’s game, I am selling my tickets for $10. I have two season tickets with a press box view. I posted about it on the message board if you want to check it out.

  • waittilthisyear

    is a 9 game hitting streak that great of a streak to protect? that writer has some sort of a vendetta against harper, who i am not defending considering i am in no way his biggest fan

    • Don Eaddy

      yeah, i agree. there is no way that was the reason. none. a 9 game streak? c’mon.

      maybe if it were a 25-30 game streak…okay then i guess, but a 9 game streak is nothing

    • Orval Overall

      Tom Boswell is not just some hack with an agenda. He’s arguably one of the top 7 baseball writers in the country today.

      (slightly tongue in cheek comment)

  • Fishin Phil

    Great job by that Texas batter.

    • SenorGato

      +1

    • Rich H

      I totally agree. The swing actually confused the catcher enough to sail the throw. Good job in protecting.

  • DarthHater

    I don’t think Gomez’s watching his hit was that egregious. But he’ll probably get suspended for pushing past the ump who was already restraining him before any blows had been thrown.

    • http://fullcount1544.blogspot.com FullCountTommy

      Or for swinging his fists like a maniac while holding his helmet in one hand haha. Maldonado must have really landed one on Snider because the black eye that Snider has is pretty rough.

      My favorite was Gomez saying that he thought it was a fly ball out…I hate quoting ESPN but COME ON MAN

  • bbmoney

    Both the swing gif and the Bartolo Colon picture are indeed glorious.

  • DarthHater

    That photo of Bartolo Colon hitting should be attached to every argument in favor of bringing the DH rule to the NL.

  • CubFan Paul

    Cole countered: “I grabbed the ball from Harrison and I said, ‘If you’re going to hit a home run, you can watch it. If you’re going to hit a fly ball to center field, don’t watch it.”

    Had it been a HR, he still would of been pissed and said something stupid

    • Chad

      Maybe, maybe not. Would he have headed over to third to back up if it had been out of the park? may not have been in that situation. You never know.

    • http://fullcount1544.blogspot.com FullCountTommy

      My issue is, would Gomez rather have Cole say something briefly as he walked by him or would he rather have Cole throw a 100 mph fastball up and in on him? I would say that he got the better end of that deal.

  • http://bleachernation.com woody

    One of the commenters here a couple of days ago said he met a scout at the game and he said he was scouting Barney. That was the same game where he hit the homer.

    • Oregon Cubs Fan

      So how about Barney for Verlander…

    • Medicos

      Hi Woody: That was me sitting not far from the Det. scout. He related that 3 of the Tigers FO people (Prez Dombrowski, Pro Scout Scott Bream and VP Player personnel Scott Reid) had sent him messages concerning getting the up -to-date info on Barney around the same time one their infielders went down. He said there’s a # of decent arms in the Tiger farm system that Epstein might like. So it looks like Darwin will probably be the first to be “flipped’ in 2014.

  • Jon

    I didn’t realize Dusty Baker was back in the big leagues managing the White Sox? Well done Robin! Why not shoot for 140 pitches next start?

    • http://www.friendly-confines.com hansman

      Maybe their genius GM should have brought up a fresh pen arm for a game.

  • Darth Ivy

    During an MLB Network show yesterday (that’s twice in two days I’ve referenced that channel), they showed clip after clip of pirates hitters doing the exact same thing Gomez did, hitting deep fly balls (not homers) and slowly trotting out of the box watching it. Cole was completely out of line. Sure, Gomez over reacted. But I’ve gotten pretty pissed in the past when people held me to ridiculous double standards and started yelling at me for it.

    • Darth Ivy

      I mean, when Gomez sees players doing that on a consistent basis, even on the Pirates, then Cole starts yelling at him for only doing what’s common practice, I completely understand flipping out a little. And he didn’t even really flip out. He just aggressively tried walking towards him and tried getting around an ump.

  • Jon

    On the COle/Gomez thing, I’ve read some pretty awful articles the past few days that pretty much absolve Cole of any wrong doing.

    • roz

      Cole should be thanking Gomez for not running out of the box and getting an inside the parker.

      • Darth Ivy

        exactly. Then Gomez should’ve told Cole to thank McCutchen for him for not being able to throw him out

    • Darth Ivy

      key word being “awful”?

      I don’t even blame Cole as much as his teammates. I think Cole was more in the wrong than Gomez. But fine, there was showboating, some yelling, fine. That happens. But the entire pirates team to start trying to fight Gomez simply for yelling back at Cole was the worst of it

    • http://fullcount1544.blogspot.com FullCountTommy

      Cole stood there while Gomez started freaking out and throwing punches. Who is more in the wrong there?

      • Jon

        Actually, Gomez made himself look silly before all this happened by the fact ball wasn’t a home run. Cole had to run over and start talking shit. He’s not without blame.

        • BT

          Cole was backing up the throw. He didn’t run over and start talking shit.

        • http://fullcount1544.blogspot.com FullCountTommy

          Cole said something as he walked backed to the pitchers mound, hardly running over and talking shit. If batters have the right to pimp hits, why don’t pitchers have the right to call them out on it? If you’re Gomez, would you rather have Cole briefly call you out, or would you rather have him throw a 100 mph fastball up and in on you?

      • Darth Ivy

        Gomez was just responding to the Pirates’ team aggression towards him. When a group of guys try beating you up, I doubt you turn the other cheek

        • http://fullcount1544.blogspot.com FullCountTommy

          Are you serious?!?!? As soon as Cole said something, Gomez started freaking out and had to be restrained by the umpire

          • JB88

            Can we just agree that they both are pretty much morons?

            • Jon

              I’d sell my soul tomorrow to get Gomez on the Cubs.

              • Don Eaddy

                eww…

                • Jon

                  I know right? A 7 WAR player in CF. Man that would suck.

              • JB88

                Being a moron and being good at baseball are not mutually exclusive.

          • Darth Ivy

            he wasn’t throwing punches at that point. He was just yelling and trying to get past the ump. He didn’t throw any punches until other Pirates players were fighting him. His punches were only in response to pirates trying to fight him. I already wrote that he overreacted with yelling back and trying to get past the ump. But there’s a difference between that and fighting. It’s the pirates team as a whole that started the fight

            • Darth Ivy

              yelling and having to get held back happen a lot with fights breaking out. The pirates didn’t have to start fighting with a guy who was being held back. when you have multiple guys trying to beat you up and you turn the other cheek, let me know

              • Darth Ivy

                *without fights breaking out*

  • BT

    For everyone defending Gomez, why is OK to grandstand and pose at home plate, but not OK to yell? Cole didn’t charge at him, didn’t throw at him, didn’t physically block the plate. He basically told him to run the bases. So why is the pitcher supposed to be cool with the batter acting like an ass, but the batter simply cannot tolerate the mean man yelling at him?

    I defended Gomez when Captain Rulebook physically wouldn’t let him cross the plate last year, but if he is going to act like a jackass, he needs to be able to withstand someone yelling at him.

    • Don Eaddy

      I thought Gomez was an ass last year and the recent incident only reinforced that belief. Cole has every right to be pissed. Gomez doesnt need to show him up. Nobody is saying Gomez cant enjoy his hit. High fives? Cheers? Dances in the dugout? All of that is fine. But hitting a homer and showing up the pitcher is a no-no. You dont need to do that. It is just lame. Run the damn bases and respect the game. Cole isnt out there shooting down batters and putting on a show after strikeouts, so how come Gomez gets to flip his bat and put on a show after hitting a homer? I realize some guys dont get it, but there is nothing wrong with respecting the opposition and running the bases like a man. Gomez looks like a little boy. A little leaguer with a bad temper.

      • Jon

        What hilarious about your post, is that Gomez didn’t show Cole up. If anything he showed himself up by the ball not leaving the park and costing his team a run.

        • Jon

          ” hitting a homer and showing up the pitcher is a no-no.”

          And just reading that, you obviously didn’t watch the entire reply and have no context of the story. You hate “Gomez” and that’s that.

          • Don Eaddy

            ive obviously seen the play. i mean hitting a homer in general. i realize his didnt go out, but i was just saying in general, showing people up is a no-no

        • Don Eaddy

          that is not what people are thinking in the moment. does you really think gomez is saying “darn, i showed myself up by not running there”? he is probably saying “damn, that was close. hell yeah triple. ill take it.” either way, cole has every right to be upset. gomez is a clown and has been proving it around the league. i dont care that he can hit, he doesnt need to show cole up. cole isnt showing him up and shooting down batters after strikeouts and dancing on the mound, so gomez doesnt need to do what he does. its the way the game should be played. if you need to dance and point and show people up after big plays you should tr playing basketball.

          • Jon

            “if you need to dance and point and show people up after big plays you should tr playing basketball.”

            What does this last statement exactly mean?

            • mjhurdle

              this
              [img]http://postimg.org/image/62efzxjr5/[/img]

              • mjhurdle

                bah, too big

            • Don Eaddy

              it means baseball players arent supposed to be hotdogs who show up the other team. thats what they invented basketball for.

              seriously, why does gomez need to toss his bat and put on a show? cole wasnt doing things like that when he was retiring milwaukee batters. there are certain standards in baseball. there is no place in the game for showing a guy up after getting a hit in the 3rd inning of a regular season game in april. there is just no need for it

              • http://www.friendly-confines.com hansman

                If Gomez was “putting on a show”, I’d hate to see what you call Luis Valbuena’s bat flip or Soriano’s strut out of the box.

                • Don Eaddy

                  Its the same thing. Like I said below, I dont hold it against the player, I just understand why pitchers get mad about it. That pitcher is working hard to get the batter out and there is no need to rub it in when you hit one out on him. Again, I dont hold it against the batter if he does shit like that, Im just saying I can see why pitchers dont like it

              • Jon

                That’s not why basketball was invented.

          • mjhurdle

            [img]http://s8.postimg.org/qmj9yezid/output_tgw_Yz_C.gif[/img]

            • Don Eaddy

              hahah

      • ChrisFChi

        Gomez was about 1/4 of the way to first when he hit full speed. Don’t see how that’s showing up the pitcher.

        • BT

          It was standing at home plate admiring his non homer. Where he was in the baseline when he realized it wasn’t going to be a home run doesn’t really matter.

          • Jon

            I’ve watched that video 10 times now and it’s a pretty innocent HR pimp. I’ve seen Aramis do it, I’ve seen Sori do it, shit I think I’ve seen Valbueana do it. And I sure as hell know Baez has done it the minors and will once here.

            • Don Eaddy

              Im not saying Cubs dont do it or that I dont like Cubs players who do it. Im just saying MLB pitchers dont like it and I understand why. Hell, when Sori did it I always understood why he was getting thrown at. It doesnt bother me, but I understand why it bother pitchers and I respect that.

            • BT

              Then it’s OK and it doesn’t annoy pitchers? I don’t know what your argument is.

              Standing and watching home runs fly out pisses off pitchers. I don’t care who does it. I’m not arguing it should or shouldn’t, I’m arguing it does. If you are going to do it, then expect the pitcher to get mad. If he gets mad he might yell at you. If he yells at you, don’t start swinging your helmet at people. Period.

              • Don Eaddy

                exactly. gomez started freaking out like he had never seen that type of reaction before. you wouldve thought the guy was a rookie

          • ChrisFChi

            When I seen the hit, it looked like it had enough carry. He felt he got all of it and soon realized it was gonna drop, so he took off.(seemed like he just mis-judged the hit) If it was a home run, we wouldn’t be talking about this

        • Brocktoon

          And I really don’t see how it’s an easy inside the park home run

  • Jon

    Nope. Cole clearly said something to Gomez. And the HR pimp wasn’t even that bad. Just re watched it. It wasn’t.

    I understand it’s easy to blame just the “brown guy” , but really both parties were involved here.

    • http://fullcount1544.blogspot.com FullCountTommy

      Yes…because it’s always about race. That’s one of the most ignorant statements ever made on this website.

      • Jon

        My argument the whole time was “both parties were to blame” “it wasn’t just Gomez” “Blame a Cole a little too”

        • http://fullcount1544.blogspot.com FullCountTommy

          “I understand it’s easy to blame just the “brown guy””

          That’s the statement I was referring to. Of course both parties are at fault, but only one of them escalated the situation to be out of control, and that was Gomez. Do you really want to suspend a guy who was standing outside the group doing nothing while other people were throwing punches?

          • Jon

            Well, evidently a couple people had an issue with my original statement of “Cole being absolved of any wrong doing”, so yeah it seems they think this is all on Gomez.

          • http://fullcount1544.blogspot.com FullCountTommy

            Was he wrong? Probably
            Did it deserve suspension? Absolutely not

            • http://fullcount1544.blogspot.com FullCountTommy

              A third question,

              Were you an ass for bringing race into this? No doubt about it

              • Jon

                I won’t feel bad when my initial point(“hey both guys are to blame”) was misconstrued to be “defending Gomez”

    • BT

      Blow it out your ass Jon. Seriously. I’ve never been called a racist in my life, and I’m not going to let it start here by someone with your lack of capacity for reason.

      I usually laugh your idiocy off, but you’ve really touched a nerve now. Your jackassery is normally harmless, but you try this again, we are really going to have a problem.

      To top it off, your response is pointless. I clearly said Cole yelled at Gomez. The question is why is that any worse than posing.

      • Funn Dave

        Nobody thinks you’re racist. Jon’s just trying to get a rise out of someone.

      • Jon

        I have no idea why you seemed to take much umbrage to my initial statement, of hey “both of these guys are to blame” That’s not an unreasonable opinion. And that wasn’t defending Gomez. You have no one to blame but yourself.

        • Patrick W.

          Jon, you can’t for one second believe you weren’t implying people were giving more blame to Gomez because he’s “the brown guy”.

          Either stand by that somewhat plausible argument or have a little intellectual honesty and admit you said something stupid. Or clarify what you mean by “blame the brown guy” if your implication wasn’t Gomez was being treated unfairly because of the color of his skin.

          • Jon

            My original statement was as innocent as it gets. Seriously, both guys are to blame here. And they are. That was rapidly twisted into me “defending Gomez”. I stand by what I said until I get clarity on why my original statement was not rational.

            • http://fullcount1544.blogspot.com FullCountTommy

              What you first said was fine. You have an opinion, and while I disagreed with your original statement, no one cared. I absolutely love that you’re completely ignoring the fact that you said we’re putting more blame on Gomez because he’s brown. Like Patrick said, just own up to it. Makes you look incredibly stupid continuing to ignore what you said and trying to change the topic.

            • BT

              I can’t decide if this is more embarrassing or pathetic. I’ll just go with both.

            • CubFanBob

              Jon trying to paint someone as racist ? That’s a first said no one.

            • Patrick W.

              You are deflecting to the end of your last sentence which is fine and debatable but not really, both guys have a share of the blame.

              What did you mean by: “I understand it’s easy to blame just the “brown guy”?

              • http://www.friendly-confines.com hansman

                Cole did something stupid then walked away.
                Gomez did something stupid but then, instead of walking away, continued to try to assault Cole despite being restrained by an ump.

                • Patrick W.

                  No question about it in my mind. I’ve watched replays from both broadcasts.

                  Gomez thought he had a home run and if he had, nobody would have given his very minor admiration a second thought. I think Cole was pissed off specifically because he thought Gomez shouldn’t admire something if it’s not a sure fire home run. He seems to have said “hey why don’t you f’ing ….”

                  But saying something stupid should always result in (at worst) having something stupid said back at you, and never having a fist thrown back at you.

                  Still don’t know what Jon meant by blame the brown guy. I suspect he will never answer.

                  • davidalanu

                    And while I may be in the minority, I don’t think Cole telling him to “f’ing run” rather than posing is stupid in the least. Jeez, we used to bitch about Soriano doing that all the time. It’s a stupid thing to do and somebody should call you out on it. In this case, it was the opposing pitcher- and he was right.

    • Karl Groucho

      There’s an interesting conversation to be had about who generally knows how to “play the game the right way” and who is usually seen as “disrespectful”; but this isn’t perhaps the way to kick it off.

      • Jon

        I’ve never found any conversation about “playing the game the right way” interesting. It’s usually a topic for old men screaming pointless jargon.

        • davidalanu

          Usually, it just means play hard. While there’s some that enjoy their unwritten rulebook, if players just play hard, run balls out, and care more about the outcome than style points, that usually takes care of it. It’s not a difficult concept.

  • Darth Ivy

    just went back at watched the video from a new angle. Doesn’t seem like the Pirates threw the first punch like I thought. Gomez definitely threw it. But Cole wasn’t backing up third, either. Looks like he went to back up home and walked over to Gomez to talk shit, and even dropped the F bomb (not a big deal, but it does add to the personal nature of the shit talking). Then a pirates player kept going at Gomez while he was being held back, kept talking shit to Gomez, then Gomez broke free and threw the first punch at the other pirates player who kept it up and wouldn’t let it go.

    So Gomez threw the first punch, which I didn’t realize before. But the Pirates completely instigated it. Gomez was just getting wound up and pissed about what Cole did and that the entire pirates team came out and kept getting in his face.

    • Darth Ivy

      plus the fact that Gomez sees guys doing what he did every day. Like I mentioned before, MLB Network showed clip after clip of Pirates hitters doing that. So Cole was out of line, his entire team was out of line, and Gomez was out of line. But Cole and the Pirates seem to be given more benefit of doubt, or leeway, than Gomez.

  • ChrisFChi

    Don’t see the issue with Gomez admiring that hit. It looked like it was going out but died at the track. Cole should have kept his mouth shut, Gomez should have ignored him. If you want to retaliate, do it by winning the game. Save the fighting to the UFC guys.Both guys were wrong(within certain respects) and some heavy fines should be paid.

    • Don Eaddy

      what did cole do wrong? he couldve just thrown one at his head. is that better? grown men dont like being shown up. gomez needs to have some respect. he is a constant problem

      • Darth Ivy

        Just because throwing at someone’s head is bad doesn’t mean what Cole did was okay. And yeah, Coles’ own players slowly jog out of the box and watch long fly balls all the time. Everyone does it. So when Cole yells at Gomez for it, that’s called a double standard.

        • ChrisFChi

          That’s my point. Hitters do it all the time. Long and short, just shut up and play the damn game.

          • Darth Ivy

            exactly. If a pitcher has a problem with a batter, get him out. Prepare extra hard for that start. Do extra homework on the guy. Get to bed early the night before. Something like that. Pitchers don’t have to throw at someone’s head just because a guy watched a flyball. It’s insane

            • ChrisFChi

              Throwing at the head is complete useless,and cowardly.

            • Don Eaddy

              Okay but thats the point. Act like youve been there before. Its a long season. Im sure Cole has gotten Gomez out before. Did Cole act like a jackass and show Gomez up after he got him out? Probably not. (I realize this is all an assumption, but go along with the example) How comes Gomez needs to act like an ass after he beat Cole?

              • Patrick W.

                Why is it incumbent on the batter to always have his act together, but totally fine for a pitcher to deliberately try to injure a guy?

                You’ve given up home runs, act like you’ve been here before.

                The batter gets to celebrate as he chooses. The pitcher gets to celebrate as he chooses. You’re only “shown up” when you allow yourself to be affected by somebody else’s actions.

                • Don Eaddy

                  Youre argument is flawed. Youre saying a batter has to have his act together but a pitcher can hit whoever he wants, but the whole reason pitchers are hitting batters are because the batters dont have their acts together.

                  and your 2nd statement is just stupid. why would you act like youve given up homers before? the phrase “act like youve been there before” is typically used after a successful play. not a poor one.

                  And sure, the batter can celebrate, but he better get used to bruised ribs.

                  • Patrick W.

                    Yeesh. Look up, maybe you’ll see it.

                    My point is “act like you’ve been there before” is an absolutely ridiculous statement when stood on it’s ear.

                    How about a pitcher get used to a bruised ego?

                    • DarthHater

                      Pitcher or hitter, any player who’s offended by an opponent’s celebration should just get one of these:

                      [img]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3779/13547060744_b6871415e2_n.jpg[/img]

                    • Patrick W.

                      One of what?

      • Darth Ivy

        We sometimes forget, but some of these players are really young. Cole and Gomez are, at least. We forget this because they’re physically huge and look older. It’s hard to fight biology and act older than your age.

      • ChrisFChi

        Coming over to 3rd and running his mouth. That’s what Cole did wrong Gomez attempting to use the helmet as a weapon, wrong. Both acted like little children and not professional ball players.

        • BT

          No, standing in the box admiring a fly ball- wrong.
          Yapping at the batter for admiring the fly ball- wrong

          Starting to wildly swing the helmet and starting a huge brawl because someone yelled at you? Idiotic and dangerous, and not on the same level as the other 2 things.

          • Darth Ivy

            he didn’t stand in the box, but if you’re using hyperbole, fine.

            What Gomez did is not wrong because it’s an accepted practice. It’s like J-walking. Sure, J-walking is technically illegal. But it’s so common that it would be wrong for one person to start yelling at another person for doing it. That’s how common it is for batters to jog out of the box and watch flyballs.

            You may not like it, but it’s so common and accepted in MLB that it’s no longer wrong

          • ChrisFChi

            I agree. It was stupid and dangerous. My original point was both were wrong, to blame it on a failed hr trot and not the pitcher going to 3rd and flappin his mouth is wrong. Personally I laughed at Gomez (until the whole swinging of the helmet)

  • Darth Ivy

    This is the angle that I didn’t see until just now. It shows the incident much better than the normal video that’s out there

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqG5sixi7R0

  • MightyBear

    “but I also think we gotta tone down the anti-celebration rhetoric. Guys can have a little fun out there.”

    The problem with the “fun” is you’re showing someone up. In the old days you never had the anti-celebration rhetoric for one simple reason. Guys like Gibson and Seaver made sure there wasn’t any “celebrating” or hitters would get a 90+ fastball in the ear. Now you can’t do that. So you have the rhetoric.

    IMO, Carlos Gomez is an idiot.

    • Jon

      Guys like Gibson and Seaver were fucking pussies. You sure are a tough guy when you have a 90 MPH fastball as a weapon.

      • mjhurdle

        there is just something really hilarious about an internet troll calling someone a “pu##y” because they can throw a fastball 90 mph….at guys holding hardened clubs.

        • Jon

          It’s the most cowardly act in sports. You could kill someone there on the spot. They are defensiveness. Older isn’t neccearly better. I’m glad the game has evolved/is evolving in that aspect.

          • bbmoney

            I don’t agree with a lot of the things you say on here, or often the manor in which you say them. But I agree with this, “It’s the most cowardly act in sports.” whole heartedly.

          • Funn Dave

            Agreed.

          • Patrick W.

            Agreed.

            • Funn Dave

              I agreed first and, therefore, better. Also, I’m bigger than you.

              • DarthHater

                “I’m bigger than you.”

                Source?

                • Funn Dave

                  Internet anonymity.

              • Patrick W.

                You may be taller but I doubt you’re fatter.

          • Don Eaddy

            there is nothing wrong with throwing one at a guys ribs. i agree bean balls are wrong, but teaching a guy a lesson by drilling him in the side is fine

            • Funn Dave

              Wow. Um, no. A broken rib is a helluva payback for admiring a long ball.

            • Funn Dave

              That’s like saying, “There is nothing wrong with shooting a gun at a guy’s hand. I agree that headshots are wrong, but teaching a guy a lesson by shooting him in the hand is fine.”

              • Don Eaddy

                Yes, its a helluva a payback. Thats the point. Dont admire your shot. Run the damn bases.

                • Drew7

                  “Yes, its a helluva payback.”

                  This is the most meatball-y, ridiculous practice in baseball.

                  Have you seen any clips of the D-R team playing in the latest WBC? They celebrate. It’s part of who they are, and how they play. They aren’t doing it to show anyone up.

                  Unfortunately, we deal with the meatball Baseball Police that think the proper payback for such a celebration is putting someone in danger by hurling a solid object directly at them at 95 MPH.

                  I realize some guys could stand to be a bit less taunt-y when they celebrate, but you know how to stop that as a pitcher?
                  Get the guy out; Otherwise, all you appear to be is a sore loser.

                  • DarthHater

                    Unless you’re Ty Cobb. In which case, you should just shoot the guy. :-P

                    • Spriggs

                      … but only if he’s brown, right? :)

                    • DarthHater

                      or disabled. :-P

          • mjhurdle

            I am not in favor of intentionally throwing at guys, but it is a far cry from being “the most cowardly act in sports”.
            Things that players do in football scrums, blind-side hits in hockey, etc are all way more cowardly imo.

            At least the batter can see what is coming. And the pitcher does have the risk of someone rushing him (and in the NL (like this game) has to get in the same batter’s box usually (if a starter)).
            Not every pitcher can handle hitters like Nolan Ryan.
            again, i am NOT saying that it is right, but i don’t think i would call it the most cowardly.

            • Jon

              Don’t worry about that upper 90s fastball at your head, cause you can see it coming.

              Stupidity

              • mjhurdle

                yep, because i definitely said that the batter didn’t have to worry about it.

                reading comprehension.

          • Spriggs

            This is an exaggeration. Gibson/Seaver/Drysdale did not throw at people’s heads. As far as I know, they didn’t intentionally bean players. Their reputations get distorted because stories get exaggerated and people say crap like this. To call them pussies and cowards is very far from what they were. It is simply not true.

      • Spriggs

        Not quite. Everyone knew what Gibson/Seaver/Drysdale etal., would do if they felt the opposition crossed a line. And Gibson/Seaver/Drysdale dared them all to do something about it if they had a problem. The fact that these guys were not pussies is how they kept their opponents in line – even though their opponents had bats in their hands.

        • Jon

          That’s like having a dual, but the other guy can’t shoot until the other has fired his first shot. Silly.

          • DarthHater

            Duel, not dual. ;-) (Where’s Funn Dave when we need him?)

            • Funn Dave

              Dammit, I’m slacking!

        • Funn Dave

          If somebody walked up to the mound wielding his bat, there’s no way he would make it to the pitcher.

          • Spriggs

            Bats can be thrown! I saw Bert Campaneris do that.

        • Tommy

          I agree with Spriggs. Mostly just cause I always agree with Spriggs. So yeah, what he said.

    • DarthHater

      “Guys like Gibson and Seaver made sure there wasn’t any “celebrating” or hitters would get a 90+ fastball in the ear.”

      I suspect this statement may just be factually incorrect. Headhunting is a disproportionate response to showing up a pitcher, and I’m not aware of any evidence that Gibson or Seaver did that (as opposed to drilling a guy in the ribs or hip, which they, like many others, doubtless did do). I’m open to being convinced, but I’d like to see the evidence.

      Throwing high and inside as part of the pitcher’s effort to keep the batter from crowding the plate is a different matter. Gibson was always very explicit about doing that. But that is ethically very different than deliberately trying to bean a guy.

      • Don Eaddy

        Yep. Drilling a guy is fine. Batter are aware of the risk when they step in the box.

        My dad used to be a pretty good pitcher and he said he would throw one at a guy every now and then just to remind guys that he was willing to peg them. Now, my pops wasnt trying to kill anyone, its just sending a message. Backing guys off the plate is part of the game. Always has been, always will be.

        I would say that most HBP’s in the major leagues are intentional and done for a reason. Bottom of the 8th, 2 on, nobody out, in a 2-1 game? Sure, he didnt mean to hit him, but I would say that a majority of hit batters are intentional.

        • Fishin Phil

          Well except for Marmol’s victims. He just had no idea where it was going.

        • bbmoney

          Drilling a guy intentionally is a helluva lot different than throwing inside. Drilling a guy intentionally is never fine.

          • DarthHater

            For the record, I never said that drilling a guy is fine. I only said it’s not ethically as bad as deliberately beaning a guy. I actually think both are wrong and it’s too dangerous an activity to fuck around with. Just play the goddam game. If your opponent is a jackass and does something moronic when he hits a home run off you, the proper response is to strike his ass out the next time he’s up.

            • bbmoney

              I know. My comment directed at Don Eaddy.

      • MightyBear

        I was exaggerating to make a point. No it was usually in the back or ribs. I remember Santo talking about how he was always happy but scared after Williams or Banks hit a homer off of Gibson because it usually meant he was going to get one in the ribs. They (Santo, Williams, etc) said Gibson was mean as hell on the mound and because of that, no one dared showed him up. They said he was one of the nicest guys off the field but once he got on the mound, it was go time.

        • Jon

          That’s awful that was even tolerated/accepted

          • DarthHater

            Yea, I’ve always thought that a pitcher deliberately hitting the next batter just because the pitcher fucked up and threw a meatball to the previous batter was one of the most unsportsmanlike moves there is. In my book it’s a lot worse than hitting a guy for acting like an asshole (not that I approve the latter, either).

            • Spriggs

              Then ya just throw at their hitter next inning. 2 wrongs = right. No biggie.

              • DarthHater

                “An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.”
                —Gandhi

                Yea, I wen’t there. :-P

                • DarthHater

                  What the fuck is that apostrophe doing there? Sorry everyone.

        • Patrick W.

          Ron Santo faced Bob Gibson more than any other pitcher in his career.

          Bob Gibson hit Ron Santo with a pitch exactly zero times in 174 plate appearances.

          Legends often fall in the face of statistics.

          • Spriggs

            Maybe the Cubbies were just super well behaved, so Gibby tolerated them. Many myths in baseball.

          • DarthHater

            Santo undoubtedly was intimidated by Gibson. That’s why his career OPS against him was only .665. ;-)

            • davidalanu

              Eh. .665 against Bob Gibson probably isn’t all that bad, really.

          • MightyBear

            Ron was a lot more nimble back then. Maybe he dodged a few. Or maybe it sounded better on the radio.

          • Patrick W.

            Here’s another truth: Billy Williams absolutely owned Bob Gibson. .832 OPS in 201 PAs and 10(!) Home Runs.

            Bob Gibson hit Billy Williams exactly zero times in those 201 PAs. Walked hime 34 times, 10 of those intentionally.

            • Spriggs

              Opening day… about 1971. Walkoff homer at Wrigely by Williams vs Gibby.

            • MightyBear

              Anything in the stat sheet about how many times he threw at Williams and Santo? Maybe it was Drysdale? How many times did Drysdale hit them? Koufax? Don’t remember anything about Koufax hitting guys? All I know is Santo talked about in the old days the players policed themselves. You didn’t show up a pitcher because he had the ball and if your guy came inside then the other guy was coming inside. That’s when the benches emptied. He didn’t like the showboating which is ironic because he did the heal clicking thing but I believe he did it once and Durocher asked him to do it after every home win. Correct me if I’m wrong on that.

              • Patrick W.

                No, I think everything you said Santo said he did actually say. I am sure I heard him say similar things as well. In fact, I’m sure Ron Santo believed it. I just know that it’s not true. That’s the thing, we remember a lot of things that are part of the zeitgeist that aren’t so. Was Bob Gibson intimidating? I have no doubt. Did he use hitting guys to do that? I don’t think the stats would back that up. He pitched hard, he pitched inside and remember he pitched a lot of his pitches from a different height. But the idea that when a guy hit a home run off him he or the next guy were going to get one in the ribs is false.

          • Brocktoon

            Bah I overestimated

        • Brocktoon

          Old baseball players telling stories aren’t evidence of anything. I’d bet Santo got hit by Gibson like once in his career.

  • Jon

    I can’t think of a single tougher task than hitting a HR in baseball. Maybe scoring a goal in hockey? Scoring a TD in football? Guys go nuts in Hockey after a goal is scored. same in football after a TD. But a guy can’t celebrate a bit after a home run? Boo fucking about a pitchers feelings and boo fucking hoo all you old timers and how the game should be played.

    • Patrick W.

      I understand it’s easy to blame the old timers, but there are some young people who hold this idiotic notion as well.

    • Don Eaddy

      and thats the point. guys like TO, Chad “Ochocinco” carlos gomez etc shouldnt be the standard for a great games like football and baseball. barry sanders should be. walter payton should be. cal ripkin should be. derek jeter should be. ken griffey should be.

      • Jon

        lol Griffey JR? He was pimpin home runs before that was even a word in the English vocabulary.

      • Patrick W.

        Wait, Griffey or Griffey Jr? Because I saw Junior do exactly what Gomez did plenty.

        • Jon

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXrgennGEho

          Cole would have lost his shit if he was the pitcher.

          • Jon

            look at that 2nd HR especially, lol, I think he’s still looking at it.

            • Don Eaddy

              Griffey wasnt pimping his homers. He was just that smooth hahaha

              anyway, you get the idea.

              play the game the right way.

              • Drew7

                “Play the game the right way”

                Outscore the opposing team?

                • Karl Groucho

                  Oh, that’s how it works.

                • Brocktoon

                  Run the bases 1-2-3-home, not the other way around

          • DarthHater
            • DarthHater

              “Fiery Cubs pitcher Charlie Root (right) always denied that the Yankees slugger gestured to center field. When Root was offered a substantial fee to play himself in the movie The Babe Ruth Story, he refused, saying, “Not if you’re going to show him pointing.”

              According to Roger Snell, author of Root for the Cubs, Root’s feelings on the matter never wavered. One afternoon, for example, as he and his family played Wiffle ball during a family outing, Charlie Junior’s wife made the mistake of defiantly pointing her bat toward center field. Root immediately sent the plastic ball whizzing toward her, hitting her neck.”

              http://jackbales.com/1932-2/

      • ChrisFChi

        So your saying guys like Payton never did any celebrations after a good play?

        • Tommy

          If you’re talking about Walter Payton, the only celebration I ever saw him do was to hand off the ball to an offensive lineman and MAYBE jump up into one of the O linemen’s arms.

          Don’t you go talkin’ bout Walter now!

          • Fishin Phil

            Walter used to say that when you went into the endzone, you should act like you had been there before.

        • DarthHater

          Football mostly does not involve the same kind of one-on-one confrontations as that between pitcher and batter in baseball. For a running back like Payton, the closest equivalent I can think of would be running over a defender or nailing him with a crushing stiff-arm and then taunting him after the play or celebrating in a way that specifically showed up the defender. I don’t think Payton ever did stuff like that. Celebrating with your teammates after a TD or a long run is not really analogous, in my opinion, because it doesn’t involve the same dimension of showing up an individual opponent. There are plenty of incidents like that in the NFL – Richard Sherman in the last NCF title game being the most notorious recent example – but not Sweetness. Nuh-uh.

          • ChrisFChi

            I was 3 when the bears won the super bowl, so I can’t say I remember watching Walter play. Poor example on my part, should have said “star athlete” instead.

            • DarthHater

              Now, arguably, recording the Superbowl Shuffle when they did was taunting the entire league, but hey, it was awesome and they backed it up. :-D

              • ChrisFChi

                The shuffle is a thing of beauty

                • Spriggs

                  Even the part where Fencik and Frazier try to dance!

                  • DarthHater

                    “Come on everybody, let’s scream and yell
                    We’re gonna do the shuffle and ring your bell.”

                    Yea, baby!

                • ChrisFChi

                  How Perry was moving, IMO, broke some physics laws.

                  • Spriggs

                    Did you know he could supposedly (his rookie year) do a two handed reverse dunk? At least (I think it was) Otis Wilson said he could. Can barely walk nowdays.

                    • DarthHater

                      “he could supposedly (his rookie year) do a two handed reverse dunk”

                      Them donuts never had a chance!

            • ChrisFChi

              Oops, I meant to reply to Tommy

          • Tommy

            Darth – don’t you ever use the word analogous in a sentence again.

            • DarthHater

              That is analogous to commanding a leopard to lose his spots. :-P

              • Tommy

                You’re not right in the head, son. And you and I both know that’s not even a real word. oft

    • Tommy

      How bout having a baby? Or what about making stuff out of paper, like that Origami stuff. Now THAT looks hard.

    • DarthHater

      I’m an old-timer and I have no problem with celebrating (at least up to some line, and I don’t really give a shit where that line is drawn).

      So boo fucking hoo about your views of old-timers, Jon. :-P

      • mjhurdle

        im a middle timer, and I always imagined that, if i was ever lucky enough to hit a HR in the major leagues, i would hire a mariachi band to follow me as I samba’d around the bases.

  • Picklenose

    Unless you have big time home run power, standing (or jogging) to watch your hit is just stupid. Get out of the box and make your hit count for all its worth. You can celebrate better back in the dugout than sitting on second any day.
    As to celebrating, nothing wrong with getting excited when you do something great. I can’t imagine wanting to retaliate against a person who is excited and basically screaming “I’m great” or “look what I did.” Now if they are doing one of those “you suck,” or “I just kicked your butt,” like pretending to shoot you with their imaginary guns, I might consider retaliating. Otherwise, live and let live.

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