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MOAR - Fire Dale Sveum (SARCAM FONT)


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19 replies to this topic

#1 MichiganGoat

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 10:51 PM

So the knuckleheads on the main board are asking for his head. Got to love how quickly the fans lose their vision and patience after half a season. So here is why I'm happy Dale is the manager:

1-Handles a weak pitching staff quite well, he hasn't Baker'd or Quade'd the staff

2-gets all players involved regularly, unfortunately many of those players SUCK

3-the clubhouse appears to be in order, no bad blood or meltdowns

So what are your reasons you're happy to have him or RATIONAL reasons you want him fired.

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#2 Spencer

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 11:11 PM

I don't want him fired, but I dont think he manages a pitching staff well.

#3 Crockett

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:00 AM

I really have had few issues with him. I think my main complaints would be:

A) Give Cardenas some at-bats. See what you have there. He hasn't shown the monstrous defensive holes he's supposed to have, but maybe that's because he never plays.

B) Quit sitting LaHair against LHP. It breaks up the days in a row he plays, and most pens are RHP heavy anyway so the most ABs he's likely to get against a LH are 3 in a game. Stop it.

C) Never do the Joe Saunders lineup against a RHP again. Ever. Seriously.

#4 Luke

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:14 AM


A) Give Cardenas some at-bats. See what you have there. He hasn't shown the monstrous defensive holes he's supposed to have, but maybe that's because he never plays.


This.

I have no problem with the lineup adjustments against lefties, including sitting LaHair. If the Cubs bench were decent players this wouldn't be an issue. I'd rather him make sure the regulars do get some regular rest to try to help combat the hot summer day game fatigue factor that is sometimes blamed for Cubs' summer collapses, and doing so against lefties is as good a time as any other spot.

I wouldn't mind seeing LaHair get an occasional start against lefties, though. Particularly the weaker ones.

#5 Brady

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:24 AM

I really have had few issues with him. I think my main complaints would be:

A) Give Cardenas some at-bats. See what you have there. He hasn't shown the monstrous defensive holes he's supposed to have, but maybe that's because he never plays.

B) Quit sitting LaHair against LHP. It breaks up the days in a row he plays, and most pens are RHP heavy anyway so the most ABs he's likely to get against a LH are 3 in a game. Stop it.

C) Never do the Joe Saunders lineup against a RHP again. Ever. Seriously.

I agree with all of this but there was no way in knowing that Saunders was going to be pulled for a RHP. It happened like 15 min before game time. The dude even went to the DL.. This is one of the reasons I say leave Lahair in though, you never know what can happen and he is one of your better bats currently and to sit him on the bench is a shame. I like Sveum and understand the woes he has had this year as a first year manager on a new team. He doesn't really know the limits of the pitchers and is learning them as time goes on. We had 3 catchers go down in the course of like 2 weeks (when on earth does that happen to anyone but the Cubs) and our lackluster lineup just isn't bringing runs across the plate when we are given the opportunities. (Both tonights game and last nights had way too many blown chances).

#6 rcleven

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:10 AM

So the knuckleheads on the main board are asking for his head. Got to love how quickly the fans lose their vision and patience after half a season. So here is why I'm happy Dale is the manager:

1-Handles a weak pitching staff quite well, he hasn't Baker'd or Quade'd the staff

2-gets all players involved regularly, unfortunately many of those players SUCK

3-the clubhouse appears to be in order, no bad blood or meltdowns

So what are your reasons you're happy to have him or RATIONAL reasons you want him fired.

I don't want him fired but I would like to see him held accountable for his actions and words.

On point one Luke and I will have to agree to disagree.
a) Leaves pitchers in when it is clear that they don't have it anymore or can not throw effective strikes.
B) Has no defined roll for staff besides starter/reliever.
c) Has not used his staff for effective situation.

On point 2.
Uses all his right handed or left handed as starters leaving an absence of bench unavailable in later innings to pitch hit.

On point three I will agree but we don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

I will add my own point 4.
Sveum speaks far too much off the cuff. What is said in press conferences one day will be retracted the next.
If your managerial style is to hit one lineup against right handed or left handed pitcher stick with it. When a last minute change happens a manager has to adjust if in his style he really thinks it gives him the best chance to win. Not adjusting makes me think either he missed it totally or he can not adjust on the fly.

#7 rcleven

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 11:59 AM

I really have had few issues with him. I think my main complaints would be:

A) Give Cardenas some at-bats. See what you have there. He hasn't shown the monstrous defensive holes he's supposed to have, but maybe that's because he never plays.

B) Quit sitting LaHair against LHP. It breaks up the days in a row he plays, and most pens are RHP heavy anyway so the most ABs he's likely to get against a LH are 3 in a game. Stop it.

C) Never do the Joe Saunders lineup against a RHP again. Ever. Seriously.

You can add D) NEVER play Baker in any line up.

#8 rcleven

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:56 PM


So the knuckleheads on the main board are asking for his head. Got to love how quickly the fans lose their vision and patience after half a season. So here is why I'm happy Dale is the manager:

1-Handles a weak pitching staff quite well, he hasn't Baker'd or Quade'd the staff

2-gets all players involved regularly, unfortunately many of those players SUCK

3-the clubhouse appears to be in order, no bad blood or meltdowns

So what are your reasons you're happy to have him or RATIONAL reasons you want him fired.

I don't want him fired but I would like to see him held accountable for his actions and words.

On point one Luke and I will have to agree to disagree.
a) Leaves pitchers in when it is clear that they don't have it anymore or can not throw effective strikes.
B) Has no defined roll for staff besides starter/reliever.
c) Has not used his staff for effective situation.

On point 2.
Uses all his right handed or left handed as starters leaving an absence of bench unavailable in later innings to pitch hit.

On point three I will agree but we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Also does not have ego problems to deal with.

I will add my own point 4.
Sveum speaks far too much off the cuff. What is said in press conferences one day will be retracted the next.
If your managerial style is to hit one lineup against right handed or left handed pitcher stick with it. When a last minute change happens a manager has to adjust if in his style he really thinks it gives him the best chance to win. Not adjusting makes me think either he missed it totally or he can not adjust on the fly.



#9 Cubs Dude

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:29 PM

I don't think most people want Sveum fired at all. It was pretty obvious that he has been set up to fail big time this season, and probably next. It seems a lot of people have some serious questions on his lineups though. The whole right/lefty thing is taken way too far IMO. And when he danced around the question about why he didn't switch the lineup when Saunders was pulled was pretty stupid. He even admitted he could have switched the lineup and thru a bunch of irrelevant b.s. about why he didn't switch the lineup. I also agree with rcleven that he will change his stance on comments he previously has made very often and easily.

Too be honest this team is so horrific that is tough to tell if Sveum can be the longterm answer as manager of the Cubs. I do hope he becomes more polished with the experience from this train wreck of a season.

#10 TrueblueCubbie

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:30 PM

I am happy that Sveum is the manager. He is doing what he can with this terrible team. My only complaint(s) is the strict right handed lineup that does squat. They only have 3 wins against lefties, so why not try something new? It won't hurt them at all.

There are others that other posters have pointed out that I won't rehash.

And it is hard to be aggresive when we are down right away, so the bunting and stealing bases is out of the question since you don't want to run yourself out of anything.

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#11 DocPeterWimsey

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:03 PM

The "Lefty Lineup" topic has been a hot one. To caricaturize the argument, the Cubs lose against lefties solely because Johnson and Baker suck. Presumably, LaHair would hit lefties much better than Baker does because joining MLB is like going to The Wall: all your past sins are wiped clean.

Here is what really is killing the Cubs against lefties: contrast Cub OPS' against RHP and LHP.

  • Castro: 0.744/0.857

  • Soriano: 0.814/0.733

  • Barney: 0.751/0.516

  • DeJesus: 0.867/0.424

  • Stewart: 0.686/0.405

  • Soto: 0.684/0.211

  • Clevenger: 0.759/0.111
Now, we expect the lefties to do worse against LHP. However, of the RHB, only Castro is raking against LHP. Sori is basically average and Barney downright awful against RHP. The other guys: oi, vey.....


Now, having to play Baker sucks, but his 0.690 probably is a lot better than LaHair's would be. But the real problem is that only one guy in the Cubs lineup is hitting particularly well against lefties this year. Upshot? Don't blame this on Dale.
Gods don't play dice with the universe, they are the dice of the universe: our job is to figure out how many sides and dice!

#12 TrueblueCubbie

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:18 PM

The stats may hold true, but if the results aren't there, what is the point? I'm not huge into a lot of stats like some of you guys, so I won't argue those, but the results are right in front of our faces. I see the OPS, and I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time, why not try something different? Maybe it will help, everything else points to the fact that it won't. But there has to be something different done because what is going on now isn't working.

As far as the Baker and Johnson comment, I like Reed and would like to see him out there a lot, I hate Baker and hope he is gone soon, but neither is the sole reason for this team being as bad as it is.

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#13 DocPeterWimsey

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:55 PM

I see the OPS, and I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time, why not try something different? Maybe it will help, everything else points to the fact that it won't.

The question is, which different should Sveum use? Expand the platoons even further? For example, platoon Barney and Cardenas, even though Barney probably should hit lefties as well as he hits righties? (The low OPS probably is a sample size fluke.) Call up Castillo and platoon him to hit against lefties?
Gods don't play dice with the universe, they are the dice of the universe: our job is to figure out how many sides and dice!

#14 TrueblueCubbie

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:51 PM

I don't have an answer, hell, Dale doesn't have an answer, and none of the armchair managers have a reasonble answer that isn't out of the question; but the current incarnation of the strong righty lineup isn't working against lefties and Dale should do something else. I know it is impossible for him to mix and match completely becuasse of the lack of overall talent up and down the line up. Really, I think we could all agree on that.

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#15 MichiganGoat

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 08:32 PM

One of the more difficult thing for fans to understand and is always the quick fan solution is the following: JUST DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

I'm not targeting any specific fans (I've said that frequently before), but sometimes changing just for change sake isn't the right thing to do. Sveum has nothing to work with and has to decide which turd he should play- turd 1 or turd 2. Now maybe we'd have a win or two more if he'd do something different, but he is sticking to the what the stats tell him is the right move. It just isn't working for him, but it is what he should be doing if we are going to be a team that is sabermetric/statistically driven. Yes its frustrating when the results don't show but playing the odds is what we'd expect from a manager. Just imagine - if Sveum did not play to the odds and then we lose, then the rabble and complaints would be that Sveum is using stats to guide his lineups.

Basically he's fucked with any decision he makes with this turd bowl team.

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