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Just Upton?


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33 replies to this topic

#16 T C

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:37 PM

I'd send them Garza, Jackson, Lake, and Szczur + bucketloads of cash. More prospects, too, if they wanted, but other guys I can think of don't make too much sense for them (Wellington Castillo, for one)

For me, the only untouchable guys would be Castro, Rizzo, and Baez. Everyone else is fair game. Honestly, though, I don't think the Cubs have a strong enough system to get something done

#17 Dumpgobbler

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:53 PM

I think a package like Baez, Jackson, Rhee and Lake would be a decent stab at what it would take to get him. Probably more though. I bet ARI would pull the trigger on something like Baez, Szczur, Jackson and an arm like Mcnutt/Rhee/Kirk; Joskish. Thats a steep price we're probably not prepared to make at this point. If you can convince them to drop Baez and go for a package like Jackson, Szczur Mcnutt/Rhee/Kirk/Joskich and an arm like Zych, then I'd do that. But I doubt that gets it done.

#18 fromthemitten

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 08:48 PM



I'd trade Castro for him straight up without even blinking.

I would blink so hard that my eyes would bleed.


I would sooner stab myself in the eyes. I'd love Upton, but Castro is too high of a price, and we really don't have anything else that would keep the D Backs on the phone.


This mostly comes out of my dislike for Castro. I personally think he's a shithead between his on-field miscues (having his back to the camera, the botched double play a couple weeks ago, etc) and his off field drama during the offseason (yes I know he was cleared of all charges but so was Ben Rothles-oh screw it he's such a jackass I'm not going to look up how to spell his last name). I have not heard a single negative thing about Upton's work ethic/character.

No doubt Upton is having a down year. He's currently batting 22 points lower than Castro, but is getting on base 37 points higher. His career OBP 19 points higher than Castro's. He's consistently been getting on base at a .350+ clip his entire career while Castro has drawn 12 walks (!!!!) this season despite playing in 83 games. Not exactly the type of production from the top of the lineup. Not to mention the Cubs are desperately hurting for power in both the big league level and in the minors. They only have a couple players with 30+ HR potential in Rizzo and Soriano (who hasn't topped that since his first year with the team) in their lineup. Castro doesn't look like he'll ever hit more than 20 HRs in a season.

The only MAJOR advantage I see that Castro has over Upton is that he plays a premium defensive position.

#19 King Jeff

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 09:58 PM




I'd trade Castro for him straight up without even blinking.

I would blink so hard that my eyes would bleed.


I would sooner stab myself in the eyes. I'd love Upton, but Castro is too high of a price, and we really don't have anything else that would keep the D Backs on the phone.


This mostly comes out of my dislike for Castro. I personally think he's a shithead between his on-field miscues (having his back to the camera, the botched double play a couple weeks ago, etc) and his off field drama during the offseason (yes I know he was cleared of all charges but so was Ben Rothles-oh screw it he's such a jackass I'm not going to look up how to spell his last name). I have not heard a single negative thing about Upton's work ethic/character.

No doubt Upton is having a down year. He's currently batting 22 points lower than Castro, but is getting on base 37 points higher. His career OBP 19 points higher than Castro's. He's consistently been getting on base at a .350+ clip his entire career while Castro has drawn 12 walks (!!!!) this season despite playing in 83 games. Not exactly the type of production from the top of the lineup. Not to mention the Cubs are desperately hurting for power in both the big league level and in the minors. They only have a couple players with 30+ HR potential in Rizzo and Soriano (who hasn't topped that since his first year with the team) in their lineup. Castro doesn't look like he'll ever hit more than 20 HRs in a season.

The only MAJOR advantage I see that Castro has over Upton is that he plays a premium defensive position.

Upton is making 6 million this year, almost 10 next, and over 14 the two years after that. Castro might not hit 6 million until 2014. So the defensive position isn't the only advantage.

#20 Cubs Dude

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 10:17 PM

Yeah trading Castro for Upton doesn't make much sense financially or longterm. But I would definitely talk to them about Garza and Jackson for Upton.

#21 GeorgeHermanLahair

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:05 PM

How about this? A three team deal. We send Garza to team X, team X sends the return that the Cubs would get to ARI Cubs throw in Vitters/Lake etc and land Upton. Only way they could land him w/o Castro IMO.

#22 Spriggs

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:00 AM

From what I read, Arizona is supposedly looking for 1) pitching 2) a SS to replace Drew 3) an OF or 3rd base prospect.

Garza, Barney, Lake and Jackson. Is that too much to give? Not enough? Would the D'backs be interested in these guys?

#23 Pat G

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:30 AM

4 Team Trade

Atlanta receives Upton, Vitters
Toronto receives Garza
Arizona receives Prado, Barney, Teheran, Jackson
Cubs receive Syndergaard, Aaron Sanchez, Christian Bethancourt, Minor, Skaggs

This trade could help everyone involved.
-Atlanta receives a big bat in Upton and 3B replacement for Chipper next year
-Toronto receives Garza to improve Rotation instantly
-Arizona receives 3B, Barney can play SS and a top pitching prospect
-Cubs receive 4 highly touted pitching prospects and a top catching prospect

Obviously there could be some other players involved but this could be the main focus of players. I don't like doing these mock trades because everyone has there negative input, but this just came to my mind and sounds like it could work out for all.

#24 SlamminSammy

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:35 AM

Thats a threeway trade. Toronto only sends players to the Cubs in exchange for only Cubs players so they are independent of the other two teams.

#25 chirogerg1

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:09 PM

4 Team Trade

Atlanta receives Upton, Vitters
Toronto receives Garza
Arizona receives Prado, Barney, Teheran, Jackson
Cubs receive Syndergaard, Aaron Sanchez, Christian Bethancourt, Minor, Skaggs

This trade could help everyone involved.
-Atlanta receives a big bat in Upton and 3B replacement for Chipper next year
-Toronto receives Garza to improve Rotation instantly
-Arizona receives 3B, Barney can play SS and a top pitching prospect
-Cubs receive 4 highly touted pitching prospects and a top catching prospect

Obviously there could be some other players involved but this could be the main focus of players. I don't like doing these mock trades because everyone has there negative input, but this just came to my mind and sounds like it could work out for all.

That screws Atlanta over. They give up arguably the best pitching prospect in baseball, their team BA leader and very versatile table setter, one of the top catchers in the minors, and a solid back end starter for one great player who has a couple years of control but is a total loser according to the Arizona FO and a average hitting third baseman who plays fringe-average defense.

#26 Tommy

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 02:00 PM

Future of the Cubs outfield is Brett Jackson, Albert Almora, and Jorge Soler. How much would we be willing to give up for Upton to keep from seeing what this group could do? Certainly not an All-Star shortstop that is just beginning his career in Castro. If we could get him for a couple minor leaguers, yeah, go for it for sure, but talking of trading Castro does not make me feel good. It's far harder to find a great SS than it is a great OF.
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#27 Tommy

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 02:01 PM

oh, and I forgot all about Szczur. We have some talent in the minors for the OF for sure!
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#28 Mr. P

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 07:22 PM

As much I'd like to get Upton, I don't see us doing it or really having what it takes to get him. The more I think about it though, this feels like a trap (It's a trap!!). The Diamondbacks must know something or they wouldn't be giving up on him so quickly. Seems strange to me.

#29 Cubsin

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 11:30 PM

The Cubs' primary needs are pitching, pitching and more pitching, primarily #1, #2 and #3 starter types. Outfielders are the strength of the farm system, with Jackson, Soler, Almora, Szczur and Ha, plus there's a chance that Vitters or Lake could be moved there. I don't see a reasonable fit for the Cubs in the Upton Derby.

#30 Rated Rookie

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:40 AM

A few rumors and tidbits that have been heard over the past few days that might come together in my mind. While I don't have the links, heres the jists:

1. Cubs aggressively shopping Ryan Dempster. Want deal done by the end of the week. Why? The speculation is that A. they want to move him before more big arms hit the market or B. They want to be able to focus on trading Garza.

2a. D Bakcs shopping Upton, have had multiple inquiries. Some from non-contenders. Depending on what counts as a non-contender, the Cubs could be the best fit. I can't see the Twins, Padres, or Astros asking. Oakland has been rumored, and they certainly have what it takes. However, the Cubs are also a non contender, and unlike many other non contenders, they have money.

2b. The Pirates are not a fit, because they are mainly offering pitching. D Backs are interested in pitching, but also want a big league or big league ready shortsto. while Castro should be no means be on the table, Darwin Barney certainly could be. Now if I were to suggest that Darwin Barney be the centerpiece of a Justin Upton trade, I'd have no choice but to have myself voluntarily committed. However, as a 3rd piece of a package, he'd be ideal. We'd obviously need two far bigger pieces. One could be Brett Jackson or Matt Szczur. However, that would be the 2nd we'd still need more.

Now what does this have to do with the Dempster trade? Well, do we really know why Theo has suddenly started overly aggressively shopping Dempster? Could it be to add a few prospects who could be flipped over for Upton? I know that the Cubs are on the list of teams that he could void a trade to, but I bet that he could be convinced not to. I bet if he could easily be convinced that the Cubs are the type of team trending in the right direction. Perhaps we could even sign his brother, who's very under rated to play alongside him.

If we could manage to get Gould and Tolleson for Dempster, the two of them along with Jackson or Szczur as well as Barney could be a fit for Upton. While we know that our main need is pitching, we also seem to forget that we're a big market team with money, although they didn't spend much this past offseason. We can buy pitching. We could very well hang on to Garza, and extend him, or else save that for next season. We could also sign one of Anibal Sanchez, McCarthy, or Marcum. Alternately, we could re-sign Dempster, who said he'd be open to that even if traded. If he's be willing to give us a home town Discount along the lines of 2/22-25 or 1/13 with a mutual or vesting option for a 2nd year, I'd take it.

So wait, we're talking Exctending Garza, signing another front end starter, signing BJ Upton, and trading for Justin, and picking up however much salary? That's crazy talk. We can't afford that. Can't we?

Let's take a look at the money that's come off the books last year, and that set to come off after this year.

post 2011:
Aramis Ramirez: 14.5 mil
Kosuke Fukudome: 14.5 mil
John Grabow: 4.8 mil (really Hendry?)
Carlos Pena: 10 mil (i think it was split between '11&12)
Bradley/Silva: around 10 mil, unsure of the details

post 2012:
Ryan Dempster: 14 mil
Carlos Zambrano: 15.5 mil
Marlon Byrd: 6.1 mil
Kerry Wood 3 mil
Reed Johnson 1 mil
Jeff Baker: 1.375 mil

That's a lot of money. The biggest additions we made were David DeJesus, for 4.25 mil and Paul Maholm for 6 mil. The only guys I can think of who will be due big raises are Castro, Samardzjia, maybe T. Wood and maybe Barney, who could be moved. Not sure of the exact numbers, but that's a lot of coin freed up. Additionally, after 2014, we're off the hook for Soriano's 19 mil/year, so there could be some backloading or mid loading of contracts to make up for that.

As for the 2012 trade deadline, in addition to Dempster, we move LaHair, Marmol, Soto, Baker, Johnson, and Camp. Wont generate much of a return, but perhaps something. If we can't move Soriano, perhaps DeJesus.

2013 opening day:

1. DeJesus RF (if still here) 4.25 mil
2. Castro SS ?mil
3. J. Upton LF 12-15 mil (depending how much we pick up)
4. Rizzo 1B ?
5. B. Upton CF 12 mil?
6. Steart/Vitters 3B <1 mil
7. Castillo C < 1 mil
8. Cardenas/Valbuena/Watkins/cheap vet 2B <1 mil

Rotation:

1. Garza 17 mil?
2. Shark 8-10 mil? (not sure how his contact works)
3. 1 of Sanchez/Dempster/Marcum/McCarthy (10-12 mil?)
4. Wood ?
5. Maholm. 6 mil option

Other monetary obligations:

Soriano: 15-19 mil, depending how much we pik up
Marmol: 9 mil (off the books after 2013 whether we keep him for 2013 or not

Looks like a lot of money, but it also looks like a legit contender. Basically, back to the payroll of recent years, but with younger players.




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