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Women in Baseball?


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#46 Morken

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:00 PM

I don't think anyone would ever debate you that Ty Cobb was a terrible baseball player because he was dirty or a horrible racist.

However, noone will ever bring him up in a discussion that is taking place about getting more people into baseball. This discussion has been based on why there are no female baseball players, why there are few women in the front office and who can we look for in the future. We want fewer Ty Cobb's and Marge Schott's in baseball.

Under no circumstances should Marge Schott be held up as an example in this discussion.

To put it another way. 50 years ago this discussion would have been very relevant if you replace women with blacks. Now imagine that Jackie Robinson was the black male version of Marge Schott and Ty Cobb. Would you want to mention him in a discussion about getting more minorities in baseball?

Sure Marge Schott did some good things. I am sure I could find a hundred 19th century slave owners who did nice things to groups they gave a crap about. Should anyone EVER bring them up in a discussion about what we should look for in employers?

Edit: Furthermore, her positive actions as an owner are drug down by her "personality". I am sure minorities just LOVED going to work every day knowing that someone who hated them was their boss.

Again, did some nice things, sure. Should be held up as a role model. No.


While Schott said some disturbing things, she didn't DO anything disturbing, and she never called any minority a name at work, on the street, etc.
She continued to hire minorities throughout her tenure. There isn't a single minority who has claimed that they were denied employment, fired for a position, or were treated poorly, by Schott. Most of the accusations made against her were made by a disgruntled employee, who was sued for theft.

Schott was an old, bitter bitch. She wasn't a saint. She said some awful things. But if you want an example of a woman who was capable of working in a male infested field, Schott provides such an example. Why? Because she did some quality things as owner of the Reds.

#47 Morken

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:02 PM



It's great that you can put on rose colored glasses and see only the good she did for dogs and kids. Meanwhile ignoring the racist remarks about over 43 million Americans. No, it's not OK too call her cute or eccentric for being a racist. You have only been proving your ignorance by continuing this. If you think someone shouldn't be judged by what they say, then why be offended when I call shit stains, shit stains? Honestly the more someone defends a bigot the more that person appears to have the same views.


I'm going to ignore your corny 80's reference, and focus solely on this paragraph. I'm going to break it down, and call you out on your inconsistencies and passive-aggressive intentions.

1.) "No, it's not OK to call her cute or eccentric for being racist".

This is an example of you lying in order to further your accusations against me. I've never referred to Marge Schott as anything closely resembling "eccentric" or "cute". What a cowardly, passive-aggressive attempt to debate. The words I used to describe Schott's comments were "Bitter" and "illogical", amongst others. I also clearly stated that she deserved all the criticism she got for the statements she made.

2.) "Honesty the more someone defends a bigot the more that person appears to have the same views".

Another 'smear' statement. Passive-aggressiveness is your thing. You've basically called me a bigot. Awesome! I've made no statements that would be offensive to any race, sexual preference, or specific group, period. Yet you call me a bigot for 1 reason. Simple ignorance. You're unable to identify the basis of my sentiment. I very simply stated that Marge Schott did some good things as an owner, in an attempt to provide an example of female contributions to baseball, providing to the spirit of this thread. I gave very clear examples of Schott's positive contributions(World Series, charitable causes, low ticket prices). That's all. I didn't say that Schoot was a ''great" owner. Shit, I didn't even say she was a "good" owner. I simply stated that she did some good things as owner of the Reds. That's all.

But you're false outrage blinded you from any logic. While being out debated, you resorted to accusing me of being a bigot. Honestly, it makes me feel bad for you. You're simple too fucking stupid to understand the very simple point I made.

  • "Like many old people, she hyperbolized her feelings, while exaggerating her statements."
    - yeah that could never be construed as eccentric
    - you say hyperbolize and I say racist
  • I was in no way passive-aggressive. I said it pretty clearly. If you continue to defend a racist as being a good person you will eventually be thought to have the same views.
There are probably a lot of racists that have donated money. That does not make them someone who we should commend in any way. She was a despicable human being that was banned by MLB. That in no way should be someone that deserves anything even remotely resembling praise.


I called you on your lie. Take it like a man.



#48 Morken

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:07 PM

Someone can be an asshole, yet still provide an example of productivity.

Scott, although an asshole, proved that a woman owner could do some positive things in a male dominated environment.



#49 Cubbie Blues

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:10 PM


I don't think anyone would ever debate you that Ty Cobb was a terrible baseball player because he was dirty or a horrible racist.

However, noone will ever bring him up in a discussion that is taking place about getting more people into baseball. This discussion has been based on why there are no female baseball players, why there are few women in the front office and who can we look for in the future. We want fewer Ty Cobb's and Marge Schott's in baseball.

Under no circumstances should Marge Schott be held up as an example in this discussion.

To put it another way. 50 years ago this discussion would have been very relevant if you replace women with blacks. Now imagine that Jackie Robinson was the black male version of Marge Schott and Ty Cobb. Would you want to mention him in a discussion about getting more minorities in baseball?

Sure Marge Schott did some good things. I am sure I could find a hundred 19th century slave owners who did nice things to groups they gave a crap about. Should anyone EVER bring them up in a discussion about what we should look for in employers?

Edit: Furthermore, her positive actions as an owner are drug down by her "personality". I am sure minorities just LOVED going to work every day knowing that someone who hated them was their boss.

Again, did some nice things, sure. Should be held up as a role model. No.


While Schott said some disturbing things, she didn't DO anything disturbing, and she never called any minority a name at work, on the street, etc.
She continued to hire minorities throughout her tenure. There isn't a single minority who has claimed that they were denied employment, fired for a position, or were treated poorly, by Schott. Most of the accusations made against her were made by a disgruntled employee, who was sued for theft.

Schott was an old, bitter bitch. She wasn't a saint. She said some awful things. But if you want an example of a woman who was capable of working in a male infested field, Schott provides such an example. Why? Because she did some quality things as owner of the Reds.

"sneaky goddamn Jews are all alike"
"million dollar niggers"
"I would never hire another nigger. I'd rather have a trained monkey working for me than a nigger,"
About Hitler "was good in the beginning, but went too far"
That wasn't hard to find at all.

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#50 Morken

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:15 PM



I don't think anyone would ever debate you that Ty Cobb was a terrible baseball player because he was dirty or a horrible racist.

However, noone will ever bring him up in a discussion that is taking place about getting more people into baseball. This discussion has been based on why there are no female baseball players, why there are few women in the front office and who can we look for in the future. We want fewer Ty Cobb's and Marge Schott's in baseball.

Under no circumstances should Marge Schott be held up as an example in this discussion.

To put it another way. 50 years ago this discussion would have been very relevant if you replace women with blacks. Now imagine that Jackie Robinson was the black male version of Marge Schott and Ty Cobb. Would you want to mention him in a discussion about getting more minorities in baseball?

Sure Marge Schott did some good things. I am sure I could find a hundred 19th century slave owners who did nice things to groups they gave a crap about. Should anyone EVER bring them up in a discussion about what we should look for in employers?

Edit: Furthermore, her positive actions as an owner are drug down by her "personality". I am sure minorities just LOVED going to work every day knowing that someone who hated them was their boss.

Again, did some nice things, sure. Should be held up as a role model. No.


While Schott said some disturbing things, she didn't DO anything disturbing, and she never called any minority a name at work, on the street, etc.
She continued to hire minorities throughout her tenure. There isn't a single minority who has claimed that they were denied employment, fired for a position, or were treated poorly, by Schott. Most of the accusations made against her were made by a disgruntled employee, who was sued for theft.

Schott was an old, bitter bitch. She wasn't a saint. She said some awful things. But if you want an example of a woman who was capable of working in a male infested field, Schott provides such an example. Why? Because she did some quality things as owner of the Reds.

"sneaky goddamn Jews are all alike"
"million dollar niggers"
"I would never hire another nigger. I'd rather have a trained monkey working for me than a nigger,"
About Hitler "was good in the beginning, but went too far"
That wasn't hard to find at all.


Now post the things that she DID.

Post all the claims of racism within the organization. What's that? Oh, there were none. That's what I thought.

The things that Schott SAID fail to erase the positive things that she DID. The things that Schott SAID simply provide evidence that Schott was an asshole.

Why can't you distinguish?

#51 Morken

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:20 PM

Provide information regarding a minority employee complaining about Schott treating them unfairly based on the color of their skin.

There has never been such a complaint.

#52 Cubbie Blues

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:25 PM

This is the last I'll say on the matter. I don't know why you feel the need to not admit she was a racist. There were some things that she did that was good. I could find many things that bad people have that is good.

I'm done. There is absolutely no reason for me to continue discussing this with you.

"It's not the dress that makes you look fat, it's the fat that makes you look fat." - Al Bundy

 

"Ow" - Dylan Bundy


#53 Morken

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

Again, Schott's awful name calling has nothing to do with the positive things she did as an owner.

Schott provides an example of a woman who was capable of being involved in baseball.

If someone asked for an example of a good, young singer, I may be inclined to mention Chris Brown. The fact that Brown beat a woman, doesn't make him any less of a singer, and it certainly doesn't make him any less of an example. Brown's abuse toward women has nothing to do with his singing, and everything to do with his personal life.

Distinguish!

#54 Morken

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:32 PM

This is the last I'll say on the matter. I don't know why you feel the need to not admit she was a racist. There were some things that she did that was good. I could find many things that bad people have that is good.

I'm done. There is absolutely no reason for me to continue discussing this with you.


Schott said racist things. What does that have to do with the positive things she did as owner?

You let your silly emotions get in the way of any logic. You're incapable of handling more than once concept. Thanks for running away.

#55 Spencer

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:01 PM


This is the last I'll say on the matter. I don't know why you feel the need to not admit she was a racist. There were some things that she did that was good. I could find many things that bad people have that is good.

I'm done. There is absolutely no reason for me to continue discussing this with you.


Schott said racist things. What does that have to do with the positive things she did as owner?

You let your silly emotions get in the way of any logic. You're incapable of handling more than once concept. Thanks for running away.


smh

#56 Tommy

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:04 PM

Mork -

This isn't about Marge Schott, this is about you and always having to be right, and if anyone disagrees with your opinion you lambaste them. I have a few comments for you:
  • You obviously think you're smarter than everyone else. Fact is, you're not nearly as smart as you think you are, and even if you were, you'll never be any better because people that know everything will never learn anything new.
  • You don't know how to make a comment without including an insult. You think you're clever and funny, and again, the fact is, nobody here thinks you're either of those things.
  • You are on a Cub's site where people come together to discuss Cub topics. Do you really want to be a part of this community? From your behavior, my guess is no as you've pretty much insulted every regular poster (including Brett on the main boards). This tells me that you are either 1) an attention whore, or 2) a troll who just gets his jollies out of insulting others.
I can't speak for anyone but myself here, but Mork, for me, the best route to handle people like you is to just completely ignore you. Consider this the very last communication I have with you on any topic ever. If we all do this, maybe you'll eventually go away, or at least learn how to communicate in an adult manner.

The rest of the people posting here have built a reputation for themselves with the way they communicate in a positive fashion on a regular basis. You would do yourself well to do the same.
- diehard fanclub member #002

#57 Spencer

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:08 PM

Mork -

This isn't about Marge Schott, this is about you and always having to be right, and if anyone disagrees with your opinion you lambaste them. I have a few comments for you:

  • You obviously think you're smarter than everyone else. Fact is, you're not nearly as smart as you think you are, and even if you were, you'll never be any better because people that know everything will never learn anything new.
  • You don't know how to make a comment without including an insult. You think you're clever and funny, and again, the fact is, nobody here thinks you're either of those things.
  • You are on a Cub's site where people come together to discuss Cub topics. Do you really want to be a part of this community? From your behavior, my guess is no as you've pretty much insulted every regular poster (including Brett on the main boards). This tells me that you are either 1) an attention whore, or 2) a troll who just gets his jollies out of insulting others.
I can't speak for anyone but myself here, but Mork, for me, the best route to handle people like you is to just completely ignore you. Consider this the very last communication I have with you on any topic ever. If we all do this, maybe you'll eventually go away, or at least learn how to communicate in an adult manner.

The rest of the people posting here have built a reputation for themselves with the way they communicate in a positive fashion on a regular basis. You would do yourself well to do the same.


ftw

#58 fromthemitten

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:10 PM

from now on I'm going to respond to morken's idiotic statements with sarcastic gifs like this Posted Image

because it's obvious that when you try to reason with him he calls you a "pussy" "bitch" "cunt ball" etc

#59 hansman1982

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:12 PM

Mork -

This isn't about Marge Schott, this is about you and always having to be right, and if anyone disagrees with your opinion you lambaste them. I have a few comments for you:

  • You obviously think you're smarter than everyone else. Fact is, you're not nearly as smart as you think you are, and even if you were, you'll never be any better because people that know everything will never learn anything new.
  • You don't know how to make a comment without including an insult. You think you're clever and funny, and again, the fact is, nobody here thinks you're either of those things.
  • You are on a Cub's site where people come together to discuss Cub topics. Do you really want to be a part of this community? From your behavior, my guess is no as you've pretty much insulted every regular poster (including Brett on the main boards). This tells me that you are either 1) an attention whore, or 2) a troll who just gets his jollies out of insulting others.
I can't speak for anyone but myself here, but Mork, for me, the best route to handle people like you is to just completely ignore you. Consider this the very last communication I have with you on any topic ever. If we all do this, maybe you'll eventually go away, or at least learn how to communicate in an adult manner.

The rest of the people posting here have built a reputation for themselves with the way they communicate in a positive fashion on a regular basis. You would do yourself well to do the same.


I am now going to go eat a Twinkie (which I thoroughly hate) in your honor!

#60 hansman1982

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:17 PM

from now on I'm going to respond to morken's idiotic statements with sarcastic gifs like this Posted Image

because it's obvious that when you try to reason with him he calls you a "pussy" "bitch" "cunt ball" etc


I'd say that Penny is my #2 fav woman right now. Behind:

Posted Image




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