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This Penn State Business


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55 replies to this topic

#16 Luke

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:51 AM

And now the Freeh report comes out.

http://assets.espn.g...ressrelease.pdf

And it is more disturbing than I expected. It appear that Penn State at the highest level knew exactly what was happening and deliberately chose to do nothing to stop it.

I'll be very surprised if the NCAA does not seriously consider the death penalty for at least the football program. Covering up child rape blows out of the water anything Miami ever did.

And I also wonder how the Big Ten will respond. It's going to be tough to brag about integrity when a member of that conference actually ignored child rape apparently in the interests of protecting the reputation of a staff member and of the university as a whole.

#17 MichiganGoat

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:01 AM

Agreed it is time to shut down the football program. Just wait till all the Penn State fans blow up when that happens. Joe Paterno is no longer a person to be respected his name should be removed from all thing Penn State and College Football.

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#18 Spencer

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:22 AM

Wow. Both of those reactions are pretty over the top. Is Paterno blameless? No, absolutely not. Anyone that thinks he is is wrong. But before you put all of the blame on him, can anyone actually name the President, VP, or AD of Penn State without looking it up? Because those gentlemen were equally at fault here, as indicated in the Freeh Report. Joe Pa did a lot of things wrong. But before you chastise him and say what an awful terrible horrendous person he is, take a minute and think about the literally hundreds of kids he helped while he was at Penn State. From the young student athletes to all of the other students at PSU that benefited from his donations at the school (there's an entire library at the school that he financed that would not otherwise be there), he did a lot of good at that school.

He definitely made mistakes during this Sandusky scandal, but removing all of his likeness from the school? Come on.

As for the death penalty, it should be reserved for severe NCAA rules violations and infractions. While what went on at PSU was terrible, I don't think it actually amounted to NCAA violations. Moral and ethical violations? Absolutely. But a death penalty could shut the program down for literally years, and the current and future student athletes don't deserve that. Read about the last (and only) time there was a NCAA death penalty:
http://en.wikipedia....ootball_scandal

#19 MichiganGoat

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:31 AM

I'm sorry a person that knew of the abuse and kept their mouth shut DESERVES NOTHING but my disgust and hatred. I don't care what he has done for anybody that is positive, HE COVERED UP THE ABUSE he deserves NOTHING. As well as the hundreds of others they ignored the abuse. UNFORGIVABLE PERIOD.

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#20 soundCARDen

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:48 AM

I don't think there's a word to describe the level of disgust I feel about this situation.

Freeh: "The most powerful leaders at Penn State ... repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse from authorities"

Absolutely sickening and heartbreaking at the same time.

#21 BlueHorizons

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:52 AM

I side with the Goat on this one. I think what Paterno did (well, more correctly what he DIDN'T do) far outweighs the good that he did for the university. I am of the opinion that he didn't stay quiet just to protect others and the image of the program, etc. I think he chose to scoop things under the carpet for personal reasons. Distancing himself from this allowed Paterno to continue reaping financial benefits that might have been damaged, had the story been exposed.

As for all of his donations to the university... He had so much money coming in, he had to spend it somehow. I'm sure it was great tax write-off to donat to the university and also it was greate self-promotion.

Should Penn St receive the death penalty? I have been on both sides of the fence on this one. Initially, I was all for it, but then I started thinking that the death penalty should probably only be used if the school's football program gained an unfair advantage over other teams because of the violations. In this case, I have to say that no, these incidents didn't in any way help recruiting, nor did it give the team an unfair advantage. On the other hand, what they apparently knew about and allowed to fester is so vile that I think even though the program didn't benefit from it, Penn St should not be allowed to continue playing football - at least until all of those who had a part in the cover-up are cleansed from the university.

#22 MichiganGoat

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:10 AM

I don't think there's a word to describe the level of disgust I feel about this situation.

Freeh: "The most powerful leaders at Penn State ... repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse from authorities"

Absolutely sickening and heartbreaking at the same time.

I merged your post into this post, didn't want there to be two conversations on this issue going on at the same time.

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#23 Luke

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:48 PM

For me, one key element from a penalty standpoint is that of institutional control. And in this case, it is very evident that the leadership of Penn State completely and utterly lost control of the football program. They considered engaging in an active conspiracy to break state and federal laws so as to cover up a child rapist to be preferable to exposing the football program or members of that program to negative publicity. That offense is completely unprecedented and is easily the single worst offense ever committed by any college athletics department.

Let's compare Penn State's offense with SMU's. SMU set up a fund to pay student athletes, then attempted to deny involvement and pay off people who were involved so they would keep quiet.

That's bad.

Penn State deliberately and knowingly ignored repeated allegations of child molestation on their property and by their staff so as to avoid negative publicity (according to the Freeh report), and in doing so deliberately broke a number of laws and regulations that could yet result in long term repercussions that would have a devastating impact the university, up to an including severe consequences with regards to student loan funds.

That's worse.

That's so much worse I can't even compare the two offenses on the same scale. SMU cheated to get ahead. Penn State conspired to protect a guy who was systemically abusing children and was using the football program and football facilities to do so.

I don't see how the death penalty is unwarranted. The football culture at Penn State had gotten to the point where protecting a child rapist was seen as a correct decision. That culture must be changed at any cost. I strongly doubt that the culture that led to that obscenely exalted position for football can be changed while football is still be played on the campus. At the absolute minimum Penn State should be stripped of all home games until they can prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that the culture has been irrevocably changed. If that takes years, so be it.

Yes, it would suck for the current crop of students and athletes who would be affected. I'm not unsympathetic; I just don't think that's a valid reason to not punish the University so harshly that no college sports program will ever again consider allowing things to get that out of control. Whenever a few powerful people engage in unethical and illegal behavior, there are always unfair consequences on the innocent rank and file. For example, when Enron collapsed, thousands of innocent people lost their jobs and their retirement funds. That totally sucks and is in no way fair. But it happens.

My strongest sympathies, however, are with the victims of Sandusky, particularly those who could have been spared that torture had Penn State acted in a normal, sane, and responsible manner. Penn State could have prevented some of the children from being abused had they done anything at all. They did nothing.

Not only did they do nothing, they covered it up and continued to allow Sandusky to use Penn State football trips and facilities to lure his victims. That goes far, far beyond any abuse committed by any other school in the history of college athletics.

Is the death penalty harsh? Yes. But not as harsh as what Penn State's leaders allowed to happen to those children by refusing to do anything when they had the chance.

#24 MichiganGoat

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:24 PM

Great response Luke, it is absolutely necessary for the NCAA to suspend the Penn State football program indefinitely until the NCAA is certain that all measures have been made to ensure this will never happen again and punishment has been issued to all connected individuals. If I'm in the Big 10 I am frantically working to revoke their status and create a plan to help protect the victims if something like this is ever suspected again. I hope the NCAA takes serious action and makes it clear to universities that if they are trying to hide or cover up serious infractions they will severely punish the school and cripple the program. From a PR standpoint the NCAA will have to be severe with the punishment and consequences to show the public they will not tolerate this behavior. Yes Penn State will become the example, but I feel no sadness for the action that will come. Penn State allowed this to happen, then allowed it to continue, then continued to hide and deny. I will feel disgusted and angry if the NCAA doesn't suspend the Penn State football program for at least a couple of years. If this was my son, my wrath would be even greater, and I think if you ask yourself what you'd want if your son or daughter was raped, then the accused person continued in a position of power and was continued to rape other victims, and then everyone denied and lied about what they knew... WHAT WOULD YOU WANT. The death penalty here is completely acceptable.

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#25 Spencer

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:11 PM

Just curious, how'd everyone feel about the Mitchell Report?

#26 MichiganGoat

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:15 PM

Just curious, how'd everyone feel about the Mitchell Report?

Um there was no child rape in Mitchell Report, not sure where the similarities are between the two.

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#27 Spencer

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:26 PM

I'm quite aware there was no child rape in the Mitchell report, but thank you for astutely pointing that out anyway. I was just curious how everyone felt about it when it came out.

#28 MichiganGoat

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 05:44 PM

Geez sorry Spenc just bustin yr balls, frankly I didn't care about the whole steroid, Mitchell report, etc I coukd care less what athletes do to their bodies by taking steroids- it wasn't an issue that needed a federal investigation. It just wasn't something that endangered the lives of children of the safety of society so I didn't really care. That's the difference with this Penn State situation, they indirectly supported the rape of children. They knew what was happening and did nothing. That's just not acceptable or should be tolerated.

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#29 Luke

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:04 PM

Just curious, how'd everyone feel about the Mitchell Report?


If there is no connection, then why not make a separate thread?

The Mitchell Report, or something very like it, needed to happen. It was the catalyst that finally got baseball to clean up its act, got the union to get serious about PEDs, and began the end of the steroid era before fan confidence in the game had been eroded altogether.

#30 Spencer

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:18 PM

The connection is I don't know how i feel about these independent reporters a d investigators that are not ombudsman making findings. I sort of dismissed the Mitchell report, but I am more inclined to put stock behind Freeh's findings. My point, however tenuous you think it is, is that I wish there were a better way to look into serious matters like this. I don't think an eight month investigation is enough to find out everything that happened...this stuff went on for over a decade. Its a good start, but not enough.




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