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The real tragic part about Soriano


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#1 5412

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:43 PM

Hi,

 

As I watch Soriano srtike out against Broxton with one out and runners on second and third.....and not one pitch in the strike zone, I say to myself that things that don't change, remain the same.

 

I realize I am preaching to the choir when I say Soriano is the king of the insignificant home run, and is an easy K in a clutch situation. 

 

As we see the fact that Theo and company appear to have addressed the needs for starting pitching so far, we also see that our offense gives new meaning to the word sucks; particularly when it comes to hitting in timely situations.

 

Alfonso is being paid a cool $19 million, something we all know.  According to the ESPN website the team payroll is $107,646,476, which means he is paid 17,7% of the payroll.  How much different would this team be if we had two young players, one making $10 and the other making $9 million?  We all now know it was Crane Kenney, who still remains with the team who added the last two years to the Soriano contract in the negotiations while Hendry was on a plane flying to Chicago from the west coast and out of communication.

 

Add in the $10 million for Marmol and you have two of our worst players eating up 30% of the team payroll.  Not only are these two eating up valuable payroll dollars, they are blocking others who deserve a chance....but won't get it because the team will just flat not eat that much money. 

 

God I will be glad when the team is out from under the Tribune's lousy contracts.  We all knew this would happen but it still is maddening.  .

 

regards,

5412

 

 



#2 T C

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:32 PM

Who exactly is being blocked by Soriano and Marmol right now? Is it Dave "I can't hit to save my fucking life and oh didja know women are lesser humans" Sappelt? Brett Jackson and his powerless, 30% K% start to the year in Iowa? Hairston is too old to qualify as a "blocked" player and he's not playing so hot right now anyway.

 

Marmol aint blocking anyone either. There is so little pitching help at AAA that they had to go out and sign Kameron Loe and Kevin Gregg to fill in for a few weeks. There is no realistic option right now who would be a better option in the pen than Marmol.

 

This team would be no better if you had given Dave Sappelt all of Soriano's ABs, or gave a Casey Coleman type all of Marmol's innings. They're not blocking jack shit right now



#3 King Jeff

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:36 PM

"you have two of our worst players eating up 30% of the team payroll"

I will concede Marmol as one of the worst players, but no way should anyone consider Soriano in the same league.  I understand that he's getting paid much more than he is worth, but he is easily one of the best players on the team.  He was in a bad situation today, but he is 6 for 17 in late game, close situations this year. 



#4 5412

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:13 PM

"you have two of our worst players eating up 30% of the team payroll"

I will concede Marmol as one of the worst players, but no way should anyone consider Soriano in the same league.  I understand that he's getting paid much more than he is worth, but he is easily one of the best players on the team.  He was in a bad situation today, but he is 6 for 17 in late game, close situations this year. 

HI Guys,

 

I will address both of you in this post.

 

Soriano is blocking a position and other positions by his mere salary.  You have to look beyond the kids in our system.  Take his salary off the books and think Theo could have done better than Hairston and have some change left to spare?

 

As far as Soriano being a bad player.  I will concede I may have worded it wrong; however his play is awful.  Right now he is hitting a hefty .286 in 77 AB's.  He has 1 HR and 2 RBI's.  With runners on base he is hitting .207 and striking out 25% of the time and has 1 RBI.  He is not feared and is an easy strike out.  With 2 outs and runners in scoring position he is hitting .154 and K's 33% of the time. I got those stats off of the ESPN website.  At one time last year he had something like 15 home runs and 25 RBI's.  He is the king of the one run home club. 

 

The tragic thing is he is a likeable guy and hard worker.  At the same time he is not producing, costing us a lot, taking up space on the field.  It was Leo Durocher who coined the term, "Back up the truck", meaning if a guy is not producing, give another guy a shot until you find someone who can. 

 

And finally, if he is any good, how come the Cubs could not trade him for anything reasonable even with it being known they would eat most of the remaining deal?

 

Soriano is the sad past, so is Marmol.  I don't care if Sappelt plays out there and busts, then we know and move him out.  That is what is happening on most positions on the field, that is why they call it rebuilding.  i would rather see kids taking a shot even if they fail because that is what rebuilding is all about.

 

Thanks for the response, I thought it might bring about a good discussion.

 

regards,

5412



#5 calicubsfan007

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:38 PM

Yes, Marmol sucks.  I am kind of embarrassed that we haven't found any homegrown guys yet to get him out.



#6 Kygavin

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:35 PM

Marmol is terrible ill give you that but lumping Soriano in with him is embarrassing. Remember Soriano didnt hit his first HR last year until May 15th and hit 237 with a 250 OBP, and ended up with his 2nd highest oWAR of his Cubs career. Also the stats you mentioned were in 29 and 13 AB's. Hardly enough to judge accurately 



#7 calicubsfan007

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:48 PM

Marmol is terrible ill give you that but lumping Soriano in with him is embarrassing. Remember Soriano didnt hit his first HR last year until May 15th and hit 237 with a 250 OBP, and ended up with his 2nd highest oWAR of his Cubs career. Also the stats you mentioned were in 29 and 134 AB's. Hardly enough to judge accurately 

I agree.  Too small of a sample size.  Sori started horribly last year and ended up on fire.



#8 Kygavin

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:34 AM

Plus last year: Runners on base =.300/.369/595 17 HR

                       Scoring position 2 out = .254/405/463 3 HR

Also was 10th in the league in 2 out RBI with 40 (10 behind Cabrera)

 

Im all on the "trade Soriano train" but any talk of him being a bad player is irrational. Calling out a player for his lack of RBI's when he had 100+ is ridiculous (even though RBI's have more to do with the guys in front of him and not his offensive skill but thats another discussion).



#9 TWC

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 09:24 AM

I realize I am preaching to the choir when I say Soriano is the king of the insignificant home run, and is an easy K in a clutch situation. 

 

Which choir is that?

 

As far as Soriano being a bad player.  ...  Right now he is hitting a hefty .286 in 77 AB's.  He has 1 HR and 2 RBI's.  With runners on base he is hitting .207 and striking out 25% of the time and has 1 RBI.  He is not feared and is an easy strike out.  With 2 outs and runners in scoring position he is hitting .154 and K's 33% of the time. I got those stats off of the ESPN website.  At one time last year he had something like 15 home runs and 25 RBI's.  He is the king of the one run home club. 

 

You might want to read up on RBIs and how much the depend on everyone else on the team, not the batter.  If people don't get on base ahead of you, you're not gonna get RBIs.  Period.

 

And seriously, bringing up three weeks worth of stats to define Soriano as a "bad player"?  Positively absurd.  Read up on statistics a bit.  Learn what "sample sizes" are.  Go buy The Book.  I'm thrilled that you're able to find stats at ESPN.com.  Go to fangraphs to learn what they mean.

 

Plus last year: Runners on base =.300/.369/595 17 HR

                       Scoring position 2 out = .254/405/463 3 HR

Also was 10th in the league in 2 out RBI with 40 (10 behind Cabrera)

 

Im all on the "trade Soriano train" but any talk of him being a bad player is irrational. Calling out a player for his lack of RBI's when he had 100+ is ridiculous (even though RBI's have more to do with the guys in front of him and not his offensive skill but thats another discussion).

 

This.



#10 Mike Taylor (no relation)

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 11:53 AM

Let me bring up his age. He's 37 (or 42):

 

March/April

2013: 81 PA, 22 H, 03.7/19.8 K/BB%, .282/.309/.372/.680, .090 ISO, .300 wOBA, 086 wRC+ (37yo)

2012: 80 PA, 18 H, 02.5/22.5 K/BB%, .237/.250/.263/.513, .026 ISO, .220 wOBA, 029 wRC+ (36yo)

2011: 97 PA, 24 H, 03.1/23.7 K/BB%, .258/.278/.613/.891, .355 ISO, .373 wOBA, 134 wRC+ (35yo)

2010: 81 PA, 21 H, 09.9/18.5 K/BB%, .292/.358/.542/.900, .250 ISO, .386 wOBA, 137 wRC+ (34yo)

2009: 99 PA, 25 H, 10.1/22.2 K/BB%, .284/.364/.591/.955, .307 ISO, .404 wOBA, 144 wRC+ (33yo)

2008: 61 PA, 10 H, 06.6/18.0 K/BB%, .175/.230/.298/.528, .123 ISO, .220 wOBA, 020 wRC+ (32yo)

2007: 78 PA, 20 H, 03.8/21.8 K/BB%, .270/.308/.392/.700, .122 ISO, .308 wOBA, 077 wRC+ (31yo)

 

Rough Average in March/April as a Cub:

82 PA, 20 H, 5.7/20.9 K/BB%, .257/.300/.439/.738, .182 ISO, .316 wOBA, 090 wRC+



#11 5412

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:06 PM

Hi guys,

 

I have watched baseball for a lot of years and thanks for the pushback.  I have no problem with disagreement as long as none of us is putting someone else down, which has not been the case.  I fully understand Soriano heats up with the weather also.

 

At the same time, we seem to be hung up with semantics.  Ok, "Bad player"....I concede.  At the same time he is far from a good, consistent player. 

 

I suspect a lot of folks will agree with the fact that we wish he had been traded for something of value over the summer.

 

As far as the "choir" is concerned, I ask one question.  Would you rather have Soriano out there this year or be giving others a chance?  While I get frustrated when they lose, I just don't think he belongs on this team on the field.  In the clubhouse, maybe...  Sure looks like we are going nowhere this year.  I hope he gets hot and we can trade him for a legitimate prospect.

 

regards,

5412



#12 Cubbie Blues

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:12 PM

As far as the "choir" is concerned, I ask one question.  Would you rather have Soriano out there this year or be giving others a chance?

Absolutely would rather have Soriano out there.

  1. He's not blocking anyone
  2. Preserves others service time
  3. Building trade value
  4. Would rather not have that much salary riding the bench
  5. The longer he is on the field the longer I can wear the jersey I purchased when he was signed.

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#13 FFP

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:04 PM

As far as the "choir" is concerned, I ask one question.  Would you rather have Soriano out there this year or be giving others a chance?

 

 

 

Soriano out there



#14 TWC

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:05 PM

As far as the "choir" is concerned, I ask one question.  Would you rather have Soriano out there this year or be giving others a chance?  While I get frustrated when they lose, I just don't think he belongs on this team on the field.  In the clubhouse, maybe...  Sure looks like we are going nowhere this year.  I hope he gets hot and we can trade him for a legitimate prospect.

 

I suppose it depends on which "others", but there's really no one on the bench or in AAA that I'd care to see out there instead of Soriano.

 

Maybe, maybe, in the second half of the season.  But I'd rather Brett Jackson continue to suck it up in Iowa than on the big league team, that's for sure.



#15 King Jeff

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:17 PM

 

As far as the "choir" is concerned, I ask one question.  Would you rather have Soriano out there this year or be giving others a chance?  While I get frustrated when they lose, I just don't think he belongs on this team on the field.  In the clubhouse, maybe...  Sure looks like we are going nowhere this year.  I hope he gets hot and we can trade him for a legitimate prospect.

 

I suppose it depends on which "others", but there's really no one on the bench or in AAA that I'd care to see out there instead of Soriano.

 

Maybe, maybe, in the second half of the season.  But I'd rather Brett Jackson continue to suck it up in Iowa than on the big league team, that's for sure.

 

I agree, keep marching Soriano out there until all hope is lost.  Come late May/early June, I'm sure we'll all have plenty of time to question who's getting enough pt out there.  Currently, there is no one that is ready/worth it at this point, simply because of Soriano's presence in the lineup. 






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