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REASON 35: BEYOND BARTMAN, CURSES AND GOATS


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#16 college_of_coaches

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

Spriggs, to answer your earlier question, I believe the answer is yes.  Ventura was more accomplished at the collegiate level (with his hitting streak) and scouts loved his swing.  Furthermore, he was a natural third-baseman.  Thus, he seemed like the obvious pick for the Cubs, an organization with a longstanding need at third base.  Griffin may have had the edge in general athleticism.  I say this because (as I recall) Griffin was converted by the Cubs to second base.  Furthermore, Ventura was always very slow-footed.  

 

But the (correct) perception at the time was that Ventura was a certain top-tier first round pick and Griffin was a reach. I remember reading in the local newspapers about how surprising the Cubs' pick was that year.



#17 King Jeff

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:27 PM

That's what I was wondering about. How were they viewed (Griffin vs Ventura) at the time of the draft? Was Griffin considered a reach at the time, or was he just a classic bust? Same thing for guys like Cunningham, Dickson, Harvey, etc. Sure, you can talk about guys they could have had and how much better they turned out, but what were the draft pundits saying at the time? Did the Cub busts happen just because they were Cubs or were the guys just NOT GOOD?

PS... my comments don't show up anymore when I am replying to a quote. Anyone else have this problem?

I was wondering the same thing.  Everything I've read on Griffin, pre-Cubs, is overwhelmingly positive.  He even out-played Ventura for Team USA according to most articles I've read.  We have little doubts now that a lefty hitting third baseman like Ventura would have been far more valuable than an athletic middle infielder, but I wonder how Griffin graded out, and I can find very little on it.  Same for the others you mention like Dickson, Harvey, etc.   It really seems that the team has a long history of failing to fully develop players, rather than a failure to take highly talented ones.  It seems that there are more guys who have gotten off to a good start, either in the minors or pros, then flame out over time.  Griffin, Dwight Smith, Jerome Walton, Mike Harkey, Gary Scott, Corey Patterson, Felix Pie, the list is almost endless. 



#18 Spriggs

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:40 PM

Spriggs - what browser, OS are you using?  Quotes seems to work fine for me on a PC with Chrome



#19 Cubbie Blues

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:41 PM

HAHAHAHAHA!!!1!11!


"It's not the dress that makes you look fat, it's the fat that makes you look fat." - Al Bundy

 

"Ow" - Dylan Bundy


#20 Spriggs

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:42 PM

Damnit. Windows 7, IE 8. Just like I've been all year. No problems until last week.

#21 college_of_coaches

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:47 PM

 

That's what I was wondering about. How were they viewed (Griffin vs Ventura) at the time of the draft? Was Griffin considered a reach at the time, or was he just a classic bust? Same thing for guys like Cunningham, Dickson, Harvey, etc. Sure, you can talk about guys they could have had and how much better they turned out, but what were the draft pundits saying at the time? Did the Cub busts happen just because they were Cubs or were the guys just NOT GOOD?

PS... my comments don't show up anymore when I am replying to a quote. Anyone else have this problem?

I was wondering the same thing.  Everything I've read on Griffin, pre-Cubs, is overwhelmingly positive.  He even out-played Ventura for Team USA according to most articles I've read.  We have little doubts now that a lefty hitting third baseman like Ventura would have been far more valuable than an athletic middle infielder, but I wonder how Griffin graded out, and I can find very little on it.  Same for the others you mention like Dickson, Harvey, etc.   It really seems that the team has a long history of failing to fully develop players, rather than a failure to take highly talented ones.  It seems that there are more guys who have gotten off to a good start, either in the minors or pros, then flame out over time.  Griffin, Dwight Smith, Jerome Walton, Mike Harkey, Gary Scott, Corey Patterson, Felix Pie, the list is almost endless. 

 

 

I was writing from memory, as I don't have time at the moment to research this further.  But a quick glance at Wikipedia shows that Griffin was an all-ACC second baseman, so I stand corrected regarding the converted position comment.  However, I do remember there being some criticism (of not taking Ventura).  

 

From our vantage point, the verdict is clear.  But I would say that even at the time the decision raised eyebrows not only because Ventura was such a high profile amateur, but also because Sandberg was still manning second, and there was nothing more than a huge stinking pile of crap at third.



#22 Spriggs

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:34 PM

But don't forget about the Great Gary Scott. Another of the 35 reasons perhaps - but they thought they had gold in that piece of garbage at 3rd around that time. Plus they might have been thinking, heck, Sandberg can play anywhere in the IF - let's just get the guy we think has the most upside.

#23 arealpoy

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:56 PM

My wife was going to order this as a Father's Day gift for me but Amazon won't ship this particular item to Canada. Is there another place I can get it online? I was going to get the ebook but this is too cool to pass on the hard copy. Thanks.






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