Jump to content


Recent Topics




Bleacher Nation is on Facebook, and you should totally "Like" us:
 


Bleacher Nation is also on Twitter, and you should totally follow us:




Upcoming Calendar Events

There are no forthcoming calendar events

Today's birthdays


Photo

The 80 Rating - A project for anyone with more time than me


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#16 OCCubFan

OCCubFan

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 249 posts
  • LocationSanibel Island

Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:37 AM

Found what I was looking for finally.  Saw this at some point and it would be helpful for anyone looking to do this.

It is a list of the current top 100 prospects and their rankings on the 20/80 scale by baseball america. Plus some other sites I found just browsing for a bit

 

http://www.baseballa...13/2614739.html

 

http://80grade.com/

 

http://www.fangraphs...ale-sabr-style/

 

I'm finding it difficult to find 20/80 grades for players currently in the majors from when they were still considered prospects.

 

All the articles were interesting. Just as a sanity check on the article http://www.fangraphs...ale-sabr-style/

note that Carlos Marmol is listed as the example for relief pitchers with reallly poor control. He grades out as a 20 for control---3 standard deviations worse than the mean.



#17 MichiganGoat

MichiganGoat

    Give me a BEER

  • Moderators
  • 3,798 posts
  • Twitter:MichiganGoat
  • Facebook:michigangoat
  • LocationGrand Rapids, MI

Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:31 AM

 

From what I found it sounds like 80 speed is one of the more common ones but that says nothing about ability to hit the ball.  80 power is uncommon but I can not find any prospect with an 80 hit tool and only Miguel Cabrera as an example of a current MLB player with an 80 hit tool.

From a 2011 article

Kevin Goldstein, Ben Badler, and Jim Callis noted that MLB regulars with 80 hit tools included Albert Pujols, Ichrio, and Joe Mauer.

 

This is what I'm looking for concerning the 80-Power rating.  

  1. How many have gotten that since they've been doing this?
  2. How many are in the MLB?
  3. How many are true All-Star players?

I'm trying to gauge just how much a 80-power tool indicates future MLB success.  I'm assuming the pitching 80s have more bust than the 80 hitting ratings mainly due to injury and pitchers needing more than one outstanding pitch.  But since the 80-Power is apparently so rare does this predict highly that Bryant will be a star?  I'm looking for the busts to see just how accurate a predictor 80-Power can be.  I'm still looking if anyone else sees anything please keep commenting.


MichiganGoat on Twitter

"There are a lot of guys who are respected but not liked" - Ron Santo


#18 MichiganGoat

MichiganGoat

    Give me a BEER

  • Moderators
  • 3,798 posts
  • Twitter:MichiganGoat
  • Facebook:michigangoat
  • LocationGrand Rapids, MI

Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:34 AM

Just found this http://www.baseballa...11/2611416.html

 

 

 

Harper actually has two 80 tools, as his arm also earns top grades. Other minor leaguers with 80 tools: Giants outfielder Gary Brown, Astros outfielder Delino DeShields Jr. and Reds shortstop Billy Hamilton (all speed); Royals righthander Jeremy Jeffress (fastball velocity); and Cubs infielder Junior Lake (arm). It's easier for a minor leaguer to rate an 80 for a purely physical tool than for one where skill is involved, such as hitting, defense or mastering a particular pitch. Mariners second baseman Dustin Ackley may be the best pure hitter in the minors, and Red Sox shortstop Jose Iglesias could be the best defensive infielder, but I'd be reluctant to hang an 80 on either.

 

At the major league level, Ichiro, Joe Mauer and Albert Pujols are all 80 hitters. Josh Hamilton, Pujols and Mike Stanton have 80 power. Michael Bourn has 80 speed. Franklin Gutierrez, Yadier Molina and Ryan Zimmerman are 80 defenders. Adrian Beltre and Ichiro have 80 arms. On the mound, Justin Verlander owns an 80 fastball, Felix Hernandez throws an 80 slider and Tim Lincecum confounds hitters with an 80 changeup.

 

Still not what I'm looking for but the 80-Power tool keeps looking more and more impressive


MichiganGoat on Twitter

"There are a lot of guys who are respected but not liked" - Ron Santo


#19 Cubbie Blues

Cubbie Blues

    The Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,365 posts
  • Twitter:@timhall76
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:37 AM

I'm still thinking that Sano will be a bust with 80 power. If he makes contact, the ball goes a mile. The problem is he doesn't make contact during the game. I see his ceiling being Adam Dunn with a bust for his floor.


"It's not the dress that makes you look fat, it's the fat that makes you look fat." - Al Bundy

 

"Ow" - Dylan Bundy


#20 Cubbie Blues

Cubbie Blues

    The Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,365 posts
  • Twitter:@timhall76
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:42 AM

Just found this http://www.baseballa...11/2611416.html

 

 

 

Harper actually has two 80 tools, as his arm also earns top grades. Other minor leaguers with 80 tools: Giants outfielder Gary Brown, Astros outfielder Delino DeShields Jr. and Reds shortstop Billy Hamilton (all speed); Royals righthander Jeremy Jeffress (fastball velocity); and Cubs infielder Junior Lake (arm). It's easier for a minor leaguer to rate an 80 for a purely physical tool than for one where skill is involved, such as hitting, defense or mastering a particular pitch. Mariners second baseman Dustin Ackley may be the best pure hitter in the minors, and Red Sox shortstop Jose Iglesias could be the best defensive infielder, but I'd be reluctant to hang an 80 on either.

 

At the major league level, Ichiro, Joe Mauer and Albert Pujols are all 80 hitters. Josh Hamilton, Pujols and Mike Stanton have 80 power. Michael Bourn has 80 speed. Franklin Gutierrez, Yadier Molina and Ryan Zimmerman are 80 defenders. Adrian Beltre and Ichiro have 80 arms. On the mound, Justin Verlander owns an 80 fastball, Felix Hernandez throws an 80 slider and Tim Lincecum confounds hitters with an 80 changeup.

 

Still not what I'm looking for but the 80-Power tool keeps looking more and more impressive

I'm liking it more and more as well. Not just the 80 Power, but he seems to have a good enough hitting tool for his power to play in a game and not just in BP. I am starting to lean toward wanting him instead.


"It's not the dress that makes you look fat, it's the fat that makes you look fat." - Al Bundy

 

"Ow" - Dylan Bundy


#21 CubChymyst

CubChymyst

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 426 posts
  • LocationManhattan, Kansas

Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:52 AM

I'm still thinking that Sano will be a bust with 80 power. If he makes contact, the ball goes a mile. The problem is he doesn't make contact during the game. I see his ceiling being Adam Dunn with a bust for his floor.

When I was looking for grades his current grade for his hit tool was a 3 I think, so he is well below average at the moment but they hope he can improve to a 5, so around average.  

 

If we are talking about 80 grades that busted it will be hard to find a lot because there are not a lot of 80 grades to being with.  I found one site, do not remember where now, that they talk about the overall grade for players, so the score after adding up all of their tools.  It said Harper and Trout had the same overall score even though Harper had the better power and arm because Trout graded high on average for all tools.



#22 MichiganGoat

MichiganGoat

    Give me a BEER

  • Moderators
  • 3,798 posts
  • Twitter:MichiganGoat
  • Facebook:michigangoat
  • LocationGrand Rapids, MI

Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:02 AM

 

I'm still thinking that Sano will be a bust with 80 power. If he makes contact, the ball goes a mile. The problem is he doesn't make contact during the game. I see his ceiling being Adam Dunn with a bust for his floor.

 

If we are talking about 80 grades that busted it will be hard to find a lot because there are not a lot of 80 grades to being with.  

There seems to be almost 4-5x the amount of 80-speed & arm guys compared to 80-hit or power.   This why I'm search for all the 80 power guys in the last 10-20 years (not sure when this model started) and if there aren't any busts then Bryant seems to be a absolute overall #1 and the Cubs  should be thinking Bryant #1 and Appel #2 but if there are a number of bust over the years then the 80-power tool isn't as impressive.


MichiganGoat on Twitter

"There are a lot of guys who are respected but not liked" - Ron Santo


#23 CubChymyst

CubChymyst

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 426 posts
  • LocationManhattan, Kansas

Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:57 PM

http://sportsillustr...ects/index.html

 

It is a list of prospects from 2010 and has their highest grade listed.  For an 80 power bust, Jesus Montero is suppose to be a power guy  but is failing quite a bit this season.



#24 Luke

Luke

    Bleacher Hero

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,082 posts
  • Twitter:@ltblaize
  • LocationMaryland

Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:50 PM

I usually see Sano listed with a hit tool in the 4.5 to 5.5 range.  3 sounds awfully low.



#25 Luke

Luke

    Bleacher Hero

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,082 posts
  • Twitter:@ltblaize
  • LocationMaryland

Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:55 PM

http://sportsillustr...ects/index.html

 

It is a list of prospects from 2010 and has their highest grade listed.  For an 80 power bust, Jesus Montero is suppose to be a power guy  but is failing quite a bit this season.

 

That article is... odd.  Pedro Alvaraz an 80 power guy?  Really?

 

I'd love to know who on the BA staff did that article - the interns?  Jim Callis of BA can be overly effusive with praise on the guys he likes, but even he doesn't go chucking around 80s like candy. 



#26 MichiganGoat

MichiganGoat

    Give me a BEER

  • Moderators
  • 3,798 posts
  • Twitter:MichiganGoat
  • Facebook:michigangoat
  • LocationGrand Rapids, MI

Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:56 PM

http://sportsillustr...ects/index.html

 

It is a list of prospects from 2010 and has their highest grade listed.  For an 80 power bust, Jesus Montero is suppose to be a power guy  but is failing quite a bit this season.

Regardless if that list is predictive of the levels a 80-power will reach, it seems like a no brainier to pick Bryant up.  Even if Montero never becomes an All-Star he is an MLB starter and that is something the Cubs desperately need from their first round pick.  I'm still looking for the bust... there have to be some right?


MichiganGoat on Twitter

"There are a lot of guys who are respected but not liked" - Ron Santo


#27 MichiganGoat

MichiganGoat

    Give me a BEER

  • Moderators
  • 3,798 posts
  • Twitter:MichiganGoat
  • Facebook:michigangoat
  • LocationGrand Rapids, MI

Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:58 PM

 

http://sportsillustr...ects/index.html

 

It is a list of prospects from 2010 and has their highest grade listed.  For an 80 power bust, Jesus Montero is suppose to be a power guy  but is failing quite a bit this season.

 

That article is... odd.  Pedro Alvaraz an 80 power guy?  Really?

 

I'd love to know who on the BA staff did that article - the interns?  Jim Callis of BA can be overly effusive with praise on the guys he likes, but even he doesn't go chucking around 80s like candy. 

 

Yeah the Alvaraz ranking is just wrong... but again another MLB starter.  I just can't believe discovering a definitive list of all the 80-power guys (pre-draft) is this hard to find.


MichiganGoat on Twitter

"There are a lot of guys who are respected but not liked" - Ron Santo


#28 Luke

Luke

    Bleacher Hero

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,082 posts
  • Twitter:@ltblaize
  • LocationMaryland

Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:09 PM

Keep in mind, Goat, that it is only recently that a lot of baseball fans cared about the minors at all.  And most still don't care about the amateur side of the game.  There's not much out there because, by and large, no one cared.

 

Fortunately, that's changing.  Try to convince people that the minors are worth following for their own sake and not just because of hot prospects is, in my mind, one of the biggest parts of what I do.



#29 MichiganGoat

MichiganGoat

    Give me a BEER

  • Moderators
  • 3,798 posts
  • Twitter:MichiganGoat
  • Facebook:michigangoat
  • LocationGrand Rapids, MI

Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:14 PM

Keep in mind, Goat, that it is only recently that a lot of baseball fans cared about the minors at all.  And most still don't care about the amateur side of the game.  There's not much out there because, by and large, no one cared.

 

Fortunately, that's changing.  Try to convince people that the minors are worth following for their own sake and not just because of hot prospects is, in my mind, one of the biggest parts of what I do.

And you do an outstanding job of that, do you know how long the 80-power ranking has been around?  Regardless of how the masses follow or care about this stuff- there has to be record of who was given an 80-power ranking in the last 10+ years.  The interweb has to have this information available... or have I reached the end?  Have I made it to Shell Beach?  Is there nothing but darkness after here? 

 

***500 Interwebz bucks to anybody that gets that reference***


MichiganGoat on Twitter

"There are a lot of guys who are respected but not liked" - Ron Santo


#30 MichiganGoat

MichiganGoat

    Give me a BEER

  • Moderators
  • 3,798 posts
  • Twitter:MichiganGoat
  • Facebook:michigangoat
  • LocationGrand Rapids, MI

Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:18 PM

Again all this about discovering if there have ever been 80-power or even 80-hit busts.  All I can find are proven MLB starter that should have a good to great MLB career (minus injury of course).  If there aren't busts, flame outs, or bums that were given this heavy solid medal prior to the draft then why isn't Bryant EVERYONES top pick?


MichiganGoat on Twitter

"There are a lot of guys who are respected but not liked" - Ron Santo





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Bleacher Nation is not affiliated in any way with Major League Baseball or the Chicago National League Ballclub (that's the Cubs).