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Vogelbach is faster than Rizzo--WAY faster


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#1 Scotti

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:12 PM

I posted about this in the comments but the "Voegelbach is so slow" meme is getting so old I thought I'd put it up here, too:  

 

As HS amateurs both Vogelbach and Rizzo attended Perfect Game and, as such, ran the 60.  Vogelbach's 7.15 is really respectable (on par with guys like Votto and it was before he lost 40 pounds).  Rizzo ran a very slow 7.40 (on par with an Easter Egg roll).  While this doesn't mean Vogelbach is anywhere near Rizzo defensively (he isn't), it DOES mean he isn't too slow to play a position (1B) in the majors.    

 

 



#2 fromthemitten

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:27 PM

I'm not disagreeing with you, but there's a huge difference between sprinting speed and "range" which combines other factors like reaction time, mobility, agility, and the ability to move laterally.



#3 Scotti

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:49 PM

This is true (and why I mentioned that Rizzo is the far better defender).  However, re. discussions of Vogelbach, we are nowhere near a scenario where folks are giving him too MUCH credit for his athleticism.  I've even seen "legitimate scouting services" rate him a 20/20 for speed--that's just stupid.  



#4 calicubsfan007

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:32 PM

There is track speed fast, then there is on the field fast.  Jerry Rice didn't wow at the Combine, but he wowed on the field with his speed.  I wouldn't put too much stock on track speed in terms of baseball, unless Vogs is able to be as fast on the field.



#5 calicubsfan007

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:33 PM

Trust me, I am not saying Vogs is slow, I am just saying wait and see.



#6 wvcubsfan

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:48 PM

There is track speed fast, then there is on the field fast.  Jerry Rice didn't wow at the Combine, but he wowed on the field with his speed.  I wouldn't put too much stock on track speed in terms of baseball, unless Vogs is able to be as fast on the field.

But Rice wasn't exactly slow, top end speed is usually something you either have or don't.  You might be able to shave a few tenths of a second off of a 40/60/100 if you are in decent shape and a second or so if you are totally out of shape by training.  Other than that you are either blessed with fast twitch muscles or you aren't.



#7 Brett

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 06:27 PM

I enjoy this conversation. Especially the Easter egg roll.



#8 calicubsfan007

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 06:36 PM

 

There is track speed fast, then there is on the field fast.  Jerry Rice didn't wow at the Combine, but he wowed on the field with his speed.  I wouldn't put too much stock on track speed in terms of baseball, unless Vogs is able to be as fast on the field.

But Rice wasn't exactly slow, top end speed is usually something you either have or don't.  You might be able to shave a few tenths of a second off of a 40/60/100 if you are in decent shape and a second or so if you are totally out of shape by training.  Other than that you are either blessed with fast twitch muscles or you aren't.

 

Fair enough. :D



#9 Kygavin

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:25 PM

Flexibility is also a huge factor in Vog's low defensive rating



#10 calicubsfan007

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:49 PM

Flexibility is also a huge factor in Vog's low defensive rating

He needs to do some yoga then! ;)



#11 hansman1982

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:52 PM

 

Flexibility is also a huge factor in Vog's low defensive rating

He needs to do some yoga then! ;)

 

What is it with Californians and hippy-ism??????



#12 calicubsfan007

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:53 PM

 

 

Flexibility is also a huge factor in Vog's low defensive rating

He needs to do some yoga then! ;)

 

What is it with Californians and hippy-ism??????

 

Hahaha, damn Hans! The gloves are off today!!!



#13 Timothy Scarbrough

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:01 AM

 

There is track speed fast, then there is on the field fast.  Jerry Rice didn't wow at the Combine, but he wowed on the field with his speed.  I wouldn't put too much stock on track speed in terms of baseball, unless Vogs is able to be as fast on the field.

But Rice wasn't exactly slow, top end speed is usually something you either have or don't.  You might be able to shave a few tenths of a second off of a 40/60/100 if you are in decent shape and a second or so if you are totally out of shape by training.  Other than that you are either blessed with fast twitch muscles or you aren't.

 

You can shave a lot more then a few tenths by getting into shape. Well, it depends what you mean by geting into shape, if you are going from top end high school talent to a professional athlete, it will probably just be a few tenths of a second. If you lose 40 pounds while gaining muscle mass at the same time, you'll probably drop a lot. Now, I don't know if Vogelbach really did get in a lot better shape, but if he did, he'd probably be significantly faster.



#14 wvcubsfan

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:18 AM

 

 

There is track speed fast, then there is on the field fast.  Jerry Rice didn't wow at the Combine, but he wowed on the field with his speed.  I wouldn't put too much stock on track speed in terms of baseball, unless Vogs is able to be as fast on the field.

But Rice wasn't exactly slow, top end speed is usually something you either have or don't.  You might be able to shave a few tenths of a second off of a 40/60/100 if you are in decent shape and a second or so if you are totally out of shape by training.  Other than that you are either blessed with fast twitch muscles or you aren't.

 

You can shave a lot more then a few tenths by getting into shape. Well, it depends what you mean by geting into shape, if you are going from top end high school talent to a professional athlete, it will probably just be a few tenths of a second. If you lose 40 pounds while gaining muscle mass at the same time, you'll probably drop a lot. Now, I don't know if Vogelbach really did get in a lot better shape, but if he did, he'd probably be significantly faster.

 

Pretty sure we are talking about the same thing.

 

If you run say a 4.7/40 in high school, you aren't going to run a 4 flat no matter how much you work, you have to already be in good condition to run a 4.7.

 

Now if you run a 7 flat because you sat on the couch and watched people run in high school and then decided to join the Army and actually had to get into shape there's a good chance that you might be able to run a 6 flat or sub 6 after you got into shape and actually developed some of the muscles required to run well.



#15 Timothy Scarbrough

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:25 AM

 

 

 

There is track speed fast, then there is on the field fast.  Jerry Rice didn't wow at the Combine, but he wowed on the field with his speed.  I wouldn't put too much stock on track speed in terms of baseball, unless Vogs is able to be as fast on the field.

But Rice wasn't exactly slow, top end speed is usually something you either have or don't.  You might be able to shave a few tenths of a second off of a 40/60/100 if you are in decent shape and a second or so if you are totally out of shape by training.  Other than that you are either blessed with fast twitch muscles or you aren't.

 

You can shave a lot more then a few tenths by getting into shape. Well, it depends what you mean by geting into shape, if you are going from top end high school talent to a professional athlete, it will probably just be a few tenths of a second. If you lose 40 pounds while gaining muscle mass at the same time, you'll probably drop a lot. Now, I don't know if Vogelbach really did get in a lot better shape, but if he did, he'd probably be significantly faster.

 

Pretty sure we are talking about the same thing.

 

If you run say a 4.7/40 in high school, you aren't going to run a 4 flat no matter how much you work, you have to already be in good condition to run a 4.7.

 

Now if you run a 7 flat because you sat on the couch and watched people run in high school and then decided to join the Army and actually had to get into shape there's a good chance that you might be able to run a 6 flat or sub 6 after you got into shape and actually developed some of the muscles required to run well.

 

I think more in terms of 100 meters. If you run a 14 seconds on a 100, you aren't in track shape, but you aren't that slow. Getting down to a 12 wouldn't be that hard, nor would you be that fast. Now seconds on a 40 is a lot faster then seconds on a 100.






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