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Why Pete Rose should be in the HOF


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8 replies to this topic

#1 Sam

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:10 AM

I will say this up front, I think that Pete Rose is one of the best players to ever step on a baseball field. He has the record for most games played, 3562, most plate appearances 15861, most at bats 14053, and he also holds the all time record for hits with 4256 in his career (the only hitting record that may never be broken). He also had a career .303/.379/.409 line with 1314 career RBIs 160 career HRs and 198 career SBs. Those are some damn good numbers, except HRs but he was never a power hitter. He was a pure 5-tool player, he could also play, and did play every position except pitcher, and I'm sure he would have tried if the Reds had asked, and he is the only player-manager to have ever won a WS. He was also a terror on the base paths, he was a distraction to pitchers and through his base running he caused many pitchers to make mistakes. I understand that gambling is "bad" and all but he never bet against his own team and he never threw a game. But apparently thats all it takes for Emperor Selig to ban you from baseball for life. Whats even worse about it is that Mark McGuire is allowed to be an MLB hitting coach, but Pete Rose isn't even allowed to throw out the 1st pitch as at Reds game, let alone even go to one. AND Mark Mcguire, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, and Rafael Palmero are all on the HOF ballot. And each year they get a few more votes. What kind of message are we sending? That gambling is bad, but its ok if you do steroids? The fuck Bud Selig. Seriously the fuck.

***I AM NOT A REDS FAN... I just like Pete Rose***
"Some may never live, but the crazy never die."- Hunter S. Thompson

#2 jtfromthed

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:13 AM

I agree, he should be in the hall of fame. If the roided up cheaters have a shot (however small it may be), he at least deserves to let the voters decide.

#3 Brett

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:15 AM

I'm pretty ambivalent on Rose. I think what he did was pretty bad, I think he's done some questionable things since leaving the game, and I think he knew the consequences when he agreed to a lifetime ban.

But, it's been a long time, and his performance was extremely Hall-worthy.

So, yeah. Ambivalent.

#4 Hawkeye

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:11 AM

I say that he at least deserves the chance to be voted on. Leave it up to the voters to make that decision. I feel it has been a long time and he has paid his dues. I was in Vegas a couple of years ago and walked by his shop where he just sits and signs memorabilia for a fee. He looked so miserable. He needs to be allowed to be around the game, especially before he gets old and passes away. Obviously the situations are totally different, but look how we all feel about Santo getting in this year. We will be happy, but will have empathy for him and his family. I am not saying Selig needs to put him in the hall, but leave it up to the decision makers. MLB is not Selig's personal kingdom to sit above and reign down his will.

#5 King Jeff

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:30 AM

I say no way in hell. He bet on his own team, and then had the audacity to lie about it for all those years and try to play innocent. In the same vein, no way would I vote any of the steroid users into the hall. Anyone mentioned in grand jury testimony, anyone who admitted it, anyone who was caught, all should be permanently disqualified. I don't like that there are some old-time players in the Hall that were out and out cheaters, but nothing can be done about it. The baseball writers are the worst hall voters in any major sport, and for the most part, they make the whole thing look ridiculous. I think someone should start over with a new hof. Just call it the Baseball hof, and don't let the dirtbags, cheaters, rapists, or murderers in.

#6 TWC

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:31 AM

I will say this up front, I think that Pete Rose is one of the best players to ever step on a baseball field.

Absolutely!

He was also a terror on the base paths, he was a distraction to pitchers and through his base running he caused many pitchers to make mistakes.

No doubt!

I understand that gambling is "bad" and all but he never bet against his own team and he never threw a game. But apparently thats all it takes for Emperor Selig to ban you from baseball for life.

Well, Sam, that's where you're wrong.

Rose bet on the baseball games he managed -- by his own admission -- every night. Evidence exists for that. The Dowd report intimates (and I think Dowd believed but didn't find adequate evidence) that Rose did bet against his team. At the very least, unlike just a player, as the manager he was in a position where the decisions he made nightly had a direct affect on the outcome of the game. Do you see how this jeopardizes the integrity of the game? Even if he wasn't betting against his team -- even if he was trying to cover or fall within a spread, he was making decisions on the field that related directly to his personal wealth, and damn the team.

And Selig didn't ban him. Rose agreed to be placed on baseball's permanent inactive list. A year (or two?) later, the BBWA codified the rule that 'inactive' players couldn't be voted into the HOF. Selig didn't become commissioner until, what, 1999 or so, after Fay Vincent succeeded Giamatti.

Whats even worse about it is that Mark McGuire is allowed to be an MLB hitting coach, but Pete Rose isn't even allowed to throw out the 1st pitch as at Reds game, let alone even go to one. AND Mark Mcguire, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, and Rafael Palmero are all on the HOF ballot. And each year they get a few more votes. What kind of message are we sending? That gambling is bad, but its ok if you do steroids?

None of the names you listed signed an agreement to ban themselves for life. But, FWW, I don't think they should be in the HOF either. And I don't think they will be.

#7 Sam

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:01 PM


I will say this up front, I think that Pete Rose is one of the best players to ever step on a baseball field.

Absolutely!

He was also a terror on the base paths, he was a distraction to pitchers and through his base running he caused many pitchers to make mistakes.

No doubt!

I understand that gambling is "bad" and all but he never bet against his own team and he never threw a game. But apparently thats all it takes for Emperor Selig to ban you from baseball for life.

Well, Sam, that's where you're wrong.

Rose bet on the baseball games he managed -- by his own admission -- every night. Evidence exists for that. The Dowd report intimates (and I think Dowd believed but didn't find adequate evidence) that Rose did bet against his team. At the very least, unlike just a player, as the manager he was in a position where the decisions he made nightly had a direct affect on the outcome of the game. Do you see how this jeopardizes the integrity of the game? Even if he wasn't betting against his team -- even if he was trying to cover or fall within a spread, he was making decisions on the field that related directly to his personal wealth, and damn the team.

And Selig didn't ban him. Rose agreed to be placed on baseball's permanent inactive list. A year (or two?) later, the BBWA codified the rule that 'inactive' players couldn't be voted into the HOF. Selig didn't become commissioner until, what, 1999 or so, after Fay Vincent succeeded Giamatti.

Whats even worse about it is that Mark McGuire is allowed to be an MLB hitting coach, but Pete Rose isn't even allowed to throw out the 1st pitch as at Reds game, let alone even go to one. AND Mark Mcguire, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, and Rafael Palmero are all on the HOF ballot. And each year they get a few more votes. What kind of message are we sending? That gambling is bad, but its ok if you do steroids?

None of the names you listed signed an agreement to ban themselves for life. But, FWW, I don't think they should be in the HOF either. And I don't think they will be.





My mistake on the commish. But there is no proof that he ever bet against the Reds. I think that its ok to bet on a game as long as that doesn't encompass throwing that game. I don't think that Pete Rose bet against the Reds, and untill there is solid proof that he did so I will stand by that. Also the HOF should be for players accomplishments on the field, what he did in regards to gambling had no (known) impact on how he played the game and that shouldn't keep him out of the HOF. Also I don't think Bonds, Sosa, ect... have a good shot to get in, but the fact remains that they are on the ballot and they are getting more votes each year (at least bonds is). It feels as if the HOF is saying that its ok to do steroids, but if you gamble on games jokes on you. I think that if they are going to allow Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, and Palmero, all of whom used PEDs, to be on the ballot they should allow Rose to be on the ballot as well.

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#8 Mike Foster

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:31 PM

Absolutely Pete Rose should be in the HOF.....when he's DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

#9 Katie

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:15 PM

It doesn't matter what the voters think or what his stats are, he agreed to the lifetime ban. He was dirty and knew it. Why else would he agree to the ban? It's like someone wrongly accused of a crime and pleading guilty to gets lesser sentence rather than take the risk of going to trial. If I'm not guilty, no way in hell I'm taking a deal. I realize the comparison is a little kooky and I'm oversimplifying a plea bargain, but you know what I mean. Someone who loved the game as much as he did signed his HOF eligibility away. That's the end of it for me.
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