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All out this offseason?


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#31 Mike Taylor (no relation)

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 04:39 PM

To quote myself... "in the future". I think by the time you consider platooning Rizzo would be during a serious playoff run. It wouldn't be a strict platoon, since by then, management would know which lefties Rizzo has had success against. It seems more likely that Bryant and Olt (hopefully) are going to be in the big leagues soon, and both are corner IF types that crush LHP, that they would be the candidates and not McCann if we were to acquire him. No reason to play Rizzo if you have a surplus of lefty mashers and a logjam in the IF. Since the break, Rizzo is batting .210/.313/.410 and a .321wOBA. He needs to wake up.

 

Castillo has had a good stretch of games, but still no power and .159 w/RISP in 84 PA, and .211 w/Runners On in 135 PA. McCann has 9 solo shots, 8 HR w/Runners On and 4 of those w/RISP. He sports a .224 w/RISP and .248 w/Runners On. .272/.351/.514 on the year - that's what the Cubs need. That's the kind of production we need to expect from Lake as well (while I'm thinking about it).



#32 King Jeff

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 04:48 PM

If the Cubs go all in this offseason, I hope it's not on Cano and Sizemore.  Not that I would mind having either, but there are three guys who are looking likely to be available that I want the Cubs to spend some of that money on, and all three could be cornerstone players going forward.

 

1.  Jose Abreu, 1b/Cuban defector.  Won't require a posting fee, but will cost a lot of money.  He's a former shortstop, who has played third and outfield prior to settling at first, so Rizzo won't be huge roadblock when considering him.  He's patient, has power, and is still fairly young while dominating international competition for years.  For all the hype on Puig and Cespedes, this guys is the really big fish, he seems likely to get 100 milllion. This guy should be the number one desire for every Cubs fan this winter.

 

2.  Masahiro Tanaka P/Japan NPD.  Younger than Darvish, but not as much of a freak.  He's a potential ace, with one of the nastiest splitters you'll ever see.  With the lack of starting pitching younger than 30 on the free agent market, Tanaka is a rare commodity that won't be coming around very often.  He's likely to be posted this year, and the Cubs should be all over this guy.

 

3.  Yoshio Itoi  OF/Japan NPB.  Itoi is another high OBP of from Japan.  He is 31, but he's still got decent speed, a little pop, and can play all three outfield spots.  Scouts rate him higher than Aoki of the Brewers, and if the Cubs are going to spend on an older outfielder, I think Itoi should be their guy.  He is also old enough and has enough service time that he won't need to be posted and will be a true free agent this winter.  I've seen a lot of clamoring for Choo and Ellsbury, but I think Itoi is the far better fit for the Cubs. 



#33 someday...2015?

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:18 PM

If the Cubs go all in this offseason, I hope it's not on Cano and Sizemore.  Not that I would mind having either, but there are three guys who are looking likely to be available that I want the Cubs to spend some of that money on, and all three could be cornerstone players going forward.
 
1.  Jose Abreu, 1b/Cuban defector.  Won't require a posting fee, but will cost a lot of money.  He's a former shortstop, who has played third and outfield prior to settling at first, so Rizzo won't be huge roadblock when considering him.  He's patient, has power, and is still fairly young while dominating international competition for years.  For all the hype on Puig and Cespedes, this guys is the really big fish, he seems likely to get 100 milllion. This guy should be the number one desire for every Cubs fan this winter.
 
2.  Masahiro Tanaka P/Japan NPD.  Younger than Darvish, but not as much of a freak.  He's a potential ace, with one of the nastiest splitters you'll ever see.  With the lack of starting pitching younger than 30 on the free agent market, Tanaka is a rare commodity that won't be coming around very often.  He's likely to be posted this year, and the Cubs should be all over this guy.
 
3.  Yoshio Itoi  OF/Japan NPB.  Itoi is another high OBP of from Japan.  He is 31, but he's still got decent speed, a little pop, and can play all three outfield spots.  Scouts rate him higher than Aoki of the Brewers, and if the Cubs are going to spend on an older outfielder, I think Itoi should be their guy.  He is also old enough and has enough service time that he won't need to be posted and will be a true free agent this winter.  I've seen a lot of clamoring for Choo and Ellsbury, but I think Itoi is the far better fit for the Cubs.


Good stuff King. I like your way of thinking and agree 100% on Abreu and Tanaka. If we ended up with those two instead of Cano and Ellsbury I think I would be just as happy if not even more exited. I honestly have no idea who Itoi is. I take your word though. Sounds like a good fit.

#34 Rizzo1684

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:40 PM

Great stuff Jeff and I could not agree more with you minus Yoshio Itoi.  I think he is going to get a decent signing and the Cubs could us Lake as the 4th outfielder platoon partner with Dejesus or Schierholtz.  If Theo and the gang put the work in and decide Jose Abreu is the guy and decide to drop 5/75 on him or whatever it will take to get him, then i'm for it. Sign Abreu,Tanaka or a starter the front office likes, resign Navarro and call it a day.  I'm happy with this lineup:

Dejesus

Castro

Rizzo

Abreu

Schierholtz

Olt

Castillo

Barney until Baez is ready to take over 2nd.



#35 Okiecubhawk

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:53 PM

If the Cubs go all in this offseason, I hope it's not on Cano and Sizemore.  Not that I would mind having either, but there are three guys who are looking likely to be available that I want the Cubs to spend some of that money on, and all three could be cornerstone players going forward.

 

1.  Jose Abreu, 1b/Cuban defector.  Won't require a posting fee, but will cost a lot of money.  He's a former shortstop, who has played third and outfield prior to settling at first, so Rizzo won't be huge roadblock when considering him.  He's patient, has power, and is still fairly young while dominating international competition for years.  For all the hype on Puig and Cespedes, this guys is the really big fish, he seems likely to get 100 milllion. This guy should be the number one desire for every Cubs fan this winter.

 

2.  Masahiro Tanaka P/Japan NPD.  Younger than Darvish, but not as much of a freak.  He's a potential ace, with one of the nastiest splitters you'll ever see.  With the lack of starting pitching younger than 30 on the free agent market, Tanaka is a rare commodity that won't be coming around very often.  He's likely to be posted this year, and the Cubs should be all over this guy.

 

3.  Yoshio Itoi  OF/Japan NPB.  Itoi is another high OBP of from Japan.  He is 31, but he's still got decent speed, a little pop, and can play all three outfield spots.  Scouts rate him higher than Aoki of the Brewers, and if the Cubs are going to spend on an older outfielder, I think Itoi should be their guy.  He is also old enough and has enough service time that he won't need to be posted and will be a true free agent this winter.  I've seen a lot of clamoring for Choo and Ellsbury, but I think Itoi is the far better fit for the Cubs. 

Tanaka does have a filthy splitter and it looked like his fastball was setting around 95 (150 km/h).  I'm with ya on going all out for him and Abreu. I've heard Abreu described as the Cuban Babe Ruth.  I wonder what it would take to get both?  Do the Cubs have enough money to even try?  An outfield of Abreu, Lake and Dejesus/Ellsbury/Choo/Schierholtz is very intriguing.  One advantage is that Abreu and Lake are righties which only leaves on possible platoon spot in the outfield unless Ellsbury is the other outfielder.  Do you think there is any possibility the Cubs get both Abreu and Ellsbury and Tanaka?



#36 SlamminSammy

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:18 PM

  Do you think there is any possibility the Cubs get both Abreu and Ellsbury and Tanaka?

 

 

No chance on all three, that is probably 200 million total in contracts, which is way too risky of a move to commit in one offseason.  If they get any of those three really, I'd be surprised, simply cuz i don't think they are the frontrunners on any of them.  Abreu would be nice to dream about but it doesnt seem like Rizzo and Abreu fit on the same NL team unfortunately.  I think Ellsbury would be a good fit for the cubs.  Honestly dont know anything about tanaka, but you can never have too much pitching if its the right price.



#37 chirogerg1

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:21 PM

Everything I've read on Abreu says first base/DH ONLY. No way he can fake OF, but Rizzo might be able to. If not, we have a "good problem" on our hands.



#38 Rizzo1684

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:18 AM

Thats what the front office makes its money for @Chirogerg1.  If they do the research and find out that Abreu could not handle left then we should stay away.  I would not move Rizzo.



#39 Patrick G

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:39 AM

Thats what the front office makes its money for @Chirogerg1.  If they do the research and find out that Abreu could not handle left then we should stay away.  I would not move Rizzo.


I agree. Makes no sense to play Rizzo in OF and Abreu at 1st because they'll both be mediocre. Rizzo is a good first baseman and if Abreu can't play left, we shouldn't go for him. But if he can play an average outfield, I wouldn't be opposed to going after him and try and work alot on his defense

#40 hansman1982

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:38 AM

If the Cubs go all in this offseason, I hope it's not on Cano and Sizemore.  Not that I would mind having either, but there are three guys who are looking likely to be available that I want the Cubs to spend some of that money on, and all three could be cornerstone players going forward.

 

1.  Jose Abreu, 1b/Cuban defector.  Won't require a posting fee, but will cost a lot of money.  He's a former shortstop, who has played third and outfield prior to settling at first, so Rizzo won't be huge roadblock when considering him.  He's patient, has power, and is still fairly young while dominating international competition for years.  For all the hype on Puig and Cespedes, this guys is the really big fish, he seems likely to get 100 milllion. This guy should be the number one desire for every Cubs fan this winter.

 

This.  If Abreu's bat really is exceptional, his, or Rizzo's decline in defense wouldn't matter a lick of beans. 



#41 Okiecubhawk

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 05:33 PM

 

If the Cubs go all in this offseason, I hope it's not on Cano and Sizemore.  Not that I would mind having either, but there are three guys who are looking likely to be available that I want the Cubs to spend some of that money on, and all three could be cornerstone players going forward.

 

1.  Jose Abreu, 1b/Cuban defector.  Won't require a posting fee, but will cost a lot of money.  He's a former shortstop, who has played third and outfield prior to settling at first, so Rizzo won't be huge roadblock when considering him.  He's patient, has power, and is still fairly young while dominating international competition for years.  For all the hype on Puig and Cespedes, this guys is the really big fish, he seems likely to get 100 milllion. This guy should be the number one desire for every Cubs fan this winter.

 

This.  If Abreu's bat really is exceptional, his, or Rizzo's decline in defense wouldn't matter a lick of beans. 

 

Yep.  That was the #1 thing I learned from moneyball.  If your bat is good enough defense doesn't matter.  Scott Hatteberg at first was a great example of defense being overrated.  Sure a player may cost you a game or two because of his defense but if his bat makes up for it then so what.  Barney at second is a great example of the opposite end of the spectrum.



#42 Patrick G

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:44 PM

 

 

If the Cubs go all in this offseason, I hope it's not on Cano and Sizemore.  Not that I would mind having either, but there are three guys who are looking likely to be available that I want the Cubs to spend some of that money on, and all three could be cornerstone players going forward.

 

1.  Jose Abreu, 1b/Cuban defector.  Won't require a posting fee, but will cost a lot of money.  He's a former shortstop, who has played third and outfield prior to settling at first, so Rizzo won't be huge roadblock when considering him.  He's patient, has power, and is still fairly young while dominating international competition for years.  For all the hype on Puig and Cespedes, this guys is the really big fish, he seems likely to get 100 milllion. This guy should be the number one desire for every Cubs fan this winter.

 

This.  If Abreu's bat really is exceptional, his, or Rizzo's decline in defense wouldn't matter a lick of beans. 

 

Yep.  That was the #1 thing I learned from moneyball.  If your bat is good enough defense doesn't matter.  Scott Hatteberg at first was a great example of defense being overrated.  Sure a player may cost you a game or two because of his defense but if his bat makes up for it then so what.  Barney at second is a great example of the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

 

 

So then why did Theo trade for Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz in 2004? Yea they had offense, but defense is also important. And Moneyball also failed to mention that the 2002 A's had Eric Chavez, Jermaine Dye, MVP Miguel Tejada, Mulder, Hudson and Cy Young winner Barry Zito



#43 Okiecubhawk

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:14 PM

 

 

 

If the Cubs go all in this offseason, I hope it's not on Cano and Sizemore.  Not that I would mind having either, but there are three guys who are looking likely to be available that I want the Cubs to spend some of that money on, and all three could be cornerstone players going forward.

 

1.  Jose Abreu, 1b/Cuban defector.  Won't require a posting fee, but will cost a lot of money.  He's a former shortstop, who has played third and outfield prior to settling at first, so Rizzo won't be huge roadblock when considering him.  He's patient, has power, and is still fairly young while dominating international competition for years.  For all the hype on Puig and Cespedes, this guys is the really big fish, he seems likely to get 100 milllion. This guy should be the number one desire for every Cubs fan this winter.

 

This.  If Abreu's bat really is exceptional, his, or Rizzo's decline in defense wouldn't matter a lick of beans. 

 

Yep.  That was the #1 thing I learned from moneyball.  If your bat is good enough defense doesn't matter.  Scott Hatteberg at first was a great example of defense being overrated.  Sure a player may cost you a game or two because of his defense but if his bat makes up for it then so what.  Barney at second is a great example of the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

 

 

So then why did Theo trade for Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz in 2004? Yea they had offense, but defense is also important. And Moneyball also failed to mention that the 2002 A's had Eric Chavez, Jermaine Dye, MVP Miguel Tejada, Mulder, Hudson and Cy Young winner Barry Zito

 

In my mind the only "glossed over" aspect of Moneyball was the pitching.  I mean without Zito, Mulder and Hudson those A's teams would have been nothing. 



#44 Mike Taylor (no relation)

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 01:01 AM

It seems like the Red Sox would be the best suitor for Abreu. They have the money to spend on him with Napoli only on a 1-year deal (and Ortiz's last year being 2014), that means no one is under contract to play 1B for 2014. Abreu is a beast, but you'd have to risk $60M+ to get him on your roster. I can't see the Cubs risking more than $45M on a guy like that, especially when they would have to move the 3rd best defensive first basemen in the NL to the OF to accommodate this guy's bat.



#45 leftyspecial

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:53 PM

What is the obsession with Cub fans on getting Cano? I don't understand it..you're likely going to pay +16 mil a year on a 6+ year contract, it will be Soriano all over again. Plus the fact that he is 30 and his decline is coming..Price would be a more appealing attraction to me but I wouldn't be willing to give up the farm as one of the above posts desires to do.  David Price's declining velocity this year is alarming as well.  The way I see it playoffs aren't within reach until 2015 at the soonest.  I'd rather wait and see about a couple of our prospects before shipping them off for players that are ageing.  We've waited 100 years, I can wait a few more.






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