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Are you willing to give Sveum another chance?


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18 replies to this topic

#1 fromthemitten

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:34 PM

Reports have it that Mike Scioscia will be fired because of his General Manager's incompetence in the FA Market.  If true, he's one of the better managers to hit the market in recent years.  You could argue that Francona was better, but he had lost control of his team and Scioscia is most likely going to be a scapegoat because Hamilton and Pujols look like massive busts.

 

Meanwhile, the Cubs have Dale Sveum.  You could make the "not even Casey Stenegel could win with the '62 Mets" argument in his defense, because the teams Sveum's managed have been piss poor, but there have been some glaring flaws in Sveum's managerial game such as the inability to keep Castro focused, sending James Russell to the mound every other night while letting some people in the bullpen sit for a week straight without an appearance, and insistence of playing Barney every day despite his unacceptable offensive production while Logan Watkins (who knows how to take a walk) sits on the bench until the rigor mortis sets in.

 

So, with Scioscia hitting the market this offseason, do you think the Cubs should dump Sveum for him, a proven winner who is still relatively young, has shown he can manage a bullpen, and gets great production out of young players or do you think they should stick with Sveum another year and see what he can do with a roster that should be better next season?

 

Heck, who knows, maybe if the Stankees miss two years in a row they might can Girardi so maybe it's worth waiting and seeing.



#2 King Jeff

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:55 PM

I wouldn't mind if they decided to give Svuem another year, but I would be thrilled if they could land Scioscia.  Either way, I really like what McKay and Bosio have done so far, so I would hope if they switch managers that both would be back. 



#3 MichiganGoat

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 07:11 PM

It's very possible Sveum was always a place holder until a better manager came along. I think Theo knew he had to seperate from Francona and he could just be waiting for the right manager to appear. This winter is going to be very interesting.

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#4 fromthemitten

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:30 PM

insistence of playing Barney every day despite his unacceptable offensive production while Logan Watkins (who knows how to take a walk) sits on the bench until the rigor mortis sets in.

 

Lol and of course he's the player of the game. Also lol I originally said "defense" instead of "offense" though he's having a down year.

 

After reading more reports it looks like either him OR the GM that gets canned

 

 

You could argue that Francona was better, but he had lost control of his team and Scioscia is most likely going to be a scapegoat because Hamilton and Pujols look like massive busts.

 

 

Maybe I was a little too hasty in making this assertion.  Another good reason to hate Pujols tho: http://msn.foxsports...lubhouse-082413

 

Either way, it looks like dude needs a change of scenery.



#5 MichiganGoat

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:46 PM

If he's out he might want to take a year off which would align nicely with the 2015 "plan."

I can also see Angels ownership getting rid of all coaches and FO, sadly they have to play to Pujols and get him a staff he likes. This contract might go down as biggest and worst contract of all time... that makes me sad and happy.

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#6 Spencer

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:12 AM

I've thought about this from time to time and have always come out on the side of the argument that I think it would be unfair to fire Sveum after two seasons of the front office putting two really, really shitty teams together under his watch - teams are are impossible to win with. I am also adamantly against measuring his success in terms of W/L record; there are much better ways to decide if he is successful or not - mitten addressed some and I'll address some below.

Al that being said, I'm not so sure that I want to see him get an opportunity to win with a good team because I am not convinced that he could do it. I detest the way that he manages the entire pitching staff, and I think he often says things one day and then the very next day does the exact opposite of what he said before (Marmol and high leverage situations, the "best spot" for Castro is 8th, then bats him leadoff the next day, etc. etc.) I am also very concerned that either this coaching staff or maybe the front office did something or said something to Castro and Rizzo to make them alter their approach at the plate and have really broken them mechanically. So while part of me thinks it would be unfair to let him go without actually managing a team that has potential to be above .500, I'm not so sure I want him managing a team that actually has a chance to be legitimately good, and I'm not so sure I want him around guys like Baez and Almora when/if they make it to Chicago. And if Mike Scioscia is on the market and the Cubs even have the tiniest chance to get him, I would be ecstatic.

The only person I would be bummed about losing is Dave McKay because I think he is an excellent coach; he's obviously very good with defensive alignment and teaching, and has been around winning ball clubs before. If they ditch Sveum, I hope McKay stays on.

#7 fromthemitten

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:14 AM

I think he often says things one day and then the very next day does the exact opposite of what he said before (Marmol and high leverage situations, the "best spot" for Castro is 8th, then bats him leadoff the next day, etc. etc.)

 

I wonder if this is a sign of there being a disconnect between him and the FO which might expedite his termination



#8 mountsalami

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:54 AM

Are you willing to give Sveum another chance?

 

 

No. He should have never been given one. He was a cheap option and one to help with the goal of attaining the high draft positioning that the F/O covets the most. Dale and his gang of pillow fighters have done just that.

 

Nice to see Rob Deer's influence on the offense this season. That was another brilliant move that turned out fantastic. 



#9 hansman1982

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:26 PM

I really think that everything being said about Sveum has been said about every Cubs manager of the last 10 years and would probably be said about Scioscia or Girardi or Francona or Maddon (good God how some people around here would be pissed about his constant lineup shuffling).  I think, overall, Sveum has done a pretty good job.  I mean good God, we are sitting here parsing every word the guy says and every minor move.

 

No matter who comes in the gripes will be the same, XYZ manager does this wrong or said this and now does that and blah blah blah.  In June the gripe was that Sveum was using Marmol too much when Russell was available and now we are bitching that he has overused Russell.



#10 fromthemitten

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:05 PM

fwiw I've been bitching about overuse of Russell since May



#11 Luke

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:13 PM

I'm still happy to see Sveum as the manager, but then I'd probably say the same thing about anyone not named Quade. 



#12 willis

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:24 AM

No. If there is an opportunity to grab a good, experiened manager then for all hell, please get him. Sveum, although put in a bad spot, has not been a good manager. I don't care if he had a team littered with All Stars, the Cubs wouldn't be good. He just isn't (wasn't) the right choice and the cubs won't get where we all want them to get with him at the helm.

 

Not everything is his fault and he has been given wrecked rosters. I will grant everyone that. But he annoys the living shit out of many fans with his actions and even more so his words. I've never liked the hire and still don't. It was a cheap option to lay out a losing plan that would net some high drafts. IF winning becomes a goal soon, then someone like Scioscia would be a welcomed change.

 

The lineups make me scratch my head at times, but the damn handling of the bullpen and the continuous mistakes he makes with the pitching staff is just unbearable.

 

Saying all of that, he'll be back and be here for awhile. The FO loves him and they don't give a crap about losing wins at this point. They want their high draft pick and this guy was their guy, and they won't admit a mistake. So it is, Sveum will be the manager for awhile. Sigh.



#13 hansman1982

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:51 AM

No. If there is an opportunity to grab a good, experiened manager then for all hell, please get him. Sveum, although put in a bad spot, has not been a good manager. I don't care if he had a team littered with All Stars, the Cubs wouldn't be good. He just isn't (wasn't) the right choice and the cubs won't get where we all want them to get with him at the helm.

 

Not everything is his fault and he has been given wrecked rosters. I will grant everyone that. But he annoys the living shit out of many fans with his actions and even more so his words. I've never liked the hire and still don't. It was a cheap option to lay out a losing plan that would net some high drafts. IF winning becomes a goal soon, then someone like Scioscia would be a welcomed change.

 

The lineups make me scratch my head at times, but the damn handling of the bullpen and the continuous mistakes he makes with the pitching staff is just unbearable.

 

Saying all of that, he'll be back and be here for awhile. The FO loves him and they don't give a crap about losing wins at this point. They want their high draft pick and this guy was their guy, and they won't admit a mistake. So it is, Sveum will be the manager for awhile. Sigh.

 

And you can easily find many of the same gripes about Scoscia, Girardi, Maddon, Pinella, Baker, LaRussa, etc...



#14 Spencer

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:17 AM

 

No. If there is an opportunity to grab a good, experiened manager then for all hell, please get him. Sveum, although put in a bad spot, has not been a good manager. I don't care if he had a team littered with All Stars, the Cubs wouldn't be good. He just isn't (wasn't) the right choice and the cubs won't get where we all want them to get with him at the helm.

 

Not everything is his fault and he has been given wrecked rosters. I will grant everyone that. But he annoys the living shit out of many fans with his actions and even more so his words. I've never liked the hire and still don't. It was a cheap option to lay out a losing plan that would net some high drafts. IF winning becomes a goal soon, then someone like Scioscia would be a welcomed change.

 

The lineups make me scratch my head at times, but the damn handling of the bullpen and the continuous mistakes he makes with the pitching staff is just unbearable.

 

Saying all of that, he'll be back and be here for awhile. The FO loves him and they don't give a crap about losing wins at this point. They want their high draft pick and this guy was their guy, and they won't admit a mistake. So it is, Sveum will be the manager for awhile. Sigh.

 

And you can easily find many of the same gripes about Scoscia, Girardi, Maddon, Pinella, Baker, LaRussa, etc...

 

We'll just keep Sveum forever then, since all managers have the same flaws and none are actually better than another.



#15 hansman1982

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:30 PM

 

 

No. If there is an opportunity to grab a good, experiened manager then for all hell, please get him. Sveum, although put in a bad spot, has not been a good manager. I don't care if he had a team littered with All Stars, the Cubs wouldn't be good. He just isn't (wasn't) the right choice and the cubs won't get where we all want them to get with him at the helm.

 

Not everything is his fault and he has been given wrecked rosters. I will grant everyone that. But he annoys the living shit out of many fans with his actions and even more so his words. I've never liked the hire and still don't. It was a cheap option to lay out a losing plan that would net some high drafts. IF winning becomes a goal soon, then someone like Scioscia would be a welcomed change.

 

The lineups make me scratch my head at times, but the damn handling of the bullpen and the continuous mistakes he makes with the pitching staff is just unbearable.

 

Saying all of that, he'll be back and be here for awhile. The FO loves him and they don't give a crap about losing wins at this point. They want their high draft pick and this guy was their guy, and they won't admit a mistake. So it is, Sveum will be the manager for awhile. Sigh.

 

And you can easily find many of the same gripes about Scoscia, Girardi, Maddon, Pinella, Baker, LaRussa, etc...

 

We'll just keep Sveum forever then, since all managers have the same flaws and none are actually better than another.

 

 

I never said that, I do think; however, that Sveum has done a pretty good job with the things in his control.  Does he have his warts?  Sure, he has overused Russell and some of his BP usage is goofy but do I think any of those other managers could have done much better with the club? No.

 

One of his "double-edged sword" items is that he seems unswayed by small sample sizes.  I think the strict platoon of Schierholtz this year is part of the reason for his succes, but he also stayed with Marmol and hindsight taught us that Marmol wasn't going to return as he did last year.  The clubhouse isn't an issue and it seems like the players are still motivated. 

 

He learns from his mistakes and is constantly adjusting his strategies.  All in all, I like what he has done.  I think this is a case of a bad 2 years causing fans to find whatever they possibly can to blame it on other than the fact we haven't had enough above-average players.






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