Jump to content


Recent Topics




Bleacher Nation is on Facebook, and you should totally "Like" us:
 


Bleacher Nation is also on Twitter, and you should totally follow us:




Upcoming Calendar Events

There are no forthcoming calendar events

Today's birthdays


Photo

Beef


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 jh03

jh03

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 260 posts
  • Twitter:@jh_03

Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:42 AM

I figured this title was the best possible way to get Hansman to read it.

 

Let's talk about why the Cubs are so determined to get another starting-level catcher. I get the whole depth thing, but last night they were connected to Wieters, and the deal reportedly involves Shark.

 

You don't deal Shark for a back-up or part-time catcher.

 

I have my doubts about this deal for multiple reasons (contract / what other pieces would have to be added, etc.), but I'm still confused why this is even being discussed?

 

Is Wieters even an upgrade from Beef? Not last year Wieters, that's for sure. .235/.287/.417 with a 86 wRC+ with -18 DRS. Castillo had a .274/.349/.397 with a 109 wRC+ and 19 DRS.

 

Last year Beef was clearly better.

 

So what does the FO know about him that we don't? I understand that Wieters probably isn't going to stay that bad... but do they not believe Welly can keep his line up either?

 

I don't get it. I really thought Beef answered a lot of questions this year.



#2 hansman1982

hansman1982

    King Regent of The Calendar Trivia Empire

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,939 posts
  • Twitter:JoeHansman
  • LocationDes Moines, IA

Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:55 AM

"

I figured this title was the best possible way to get Hansman to read it."

 

HAHAHAHA.  It worked.

 

The only thing I can see with Castillo is that they think the BABIP is unsustainable and/or he isn't able to be a full-time catcher.  If they think his BABIP is going to crash 30-40 points he suddenly becomes a below-league-average catcher offensively.

 

Opposite with Weiters.  If they think the Orioles are down on him and can get someone like Bundy thrown in (hooray TJ surgery), that would shore up the C position and give them a TOR arm that should be pitching mid-season next year. 



#3 jh03

jh03

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 260 posts
  • Twitter:@jh_03

Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:02 AM

"

I figured this title was the best possible way to get Hansman to read it."

 

HAHAHAHA.  It worked.

 

The only thing I can see with Castillo is that they think the BABIP is unsustainable and/or he isn't able to be a full-time catcher.  If they think his BABIP is going to crash 30-40 points he suddenly becomes a below-league-average catcher offensively.

 

Opposite with Weiters.  If they think the Orioles are down on him and can get someone like Bundy thrown in (hooray TJ surgery), that would shore up the C position and give them a TOR arm that should be pitching mid-season next year. 

 I have similar thoughts on it.. but Wieters needs extended, just like Shark does. Does it make sense to send Jeff to the O's for another guy waiting to be extended? I get that it's easier to extend hitters than pitchers, but still..

 

And does Beef go with Shark in that deal in order to get Bundy? Do the Cubs have to give up more? This is why I don't see it happening.. I think each team values their guy (because of the weird situations all 4 of these guys are in) more than the other team would.



#4 Cubbie Blues

Cubbie Blues

    The Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,365 posts
  • Twitter:@timhall76
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:17 AM

I didn't see the report that you are talking about, but just because Wieters would be part of the deal does not mean that he is the main piece. Look at the Garza trade last year, Olt was not the main piece, Edwards was. You really can't judge a trade until all the pieces are known.


"It's not the dress that makes you look fat, it's the fat that makes you look fat." - Al Bundy

 

"Ow" - Dylan Bundy


#5 hansman1982

hansman1982

    King Regent of The Calendar Trivia Empire

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,939 posts
  • Twitter:JoeHansman
  • LocationDes Moines, IA

Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:19 AM

 

"

I figured this title was the best possible way to get Hansman to read it."

 

HAHAHAHA.  It worked.

 

The only thing I can see with Castillo is that they think the BABIP is unsustainable and/or he isn't able to be a full-time catcher.  If they think his BABIP is going to crash 30-40 points he suddenly becomes a below-league-average catcher offensively.

 

Opposite with Weiters.  If they think the Orioles are down on him and can get someone like Bundy thrown in (hooray TJ surgery), that would shore up the C position and give them a TOR arm that should be pitching mid-season next year. 

 I have similar thoughts on it.. but Wieters needs extended, just like Shark does. Does it make sense to send Jeff to the O's for another guy waiting to be extended? I get that it's easier to extend hitters than pitchers, but still..

 

And does Beef go with Shark in that deal in order to get Bundy? Do the Cubs have to give up more? This is why I don't see it happening.. I think each team values their guy (because of the weird situations all 4 of these guys are in) more than the other team would.

 

 

With Wieters you are in the same boat but he is a couple years younger than Shark so you'd be getting his prime years. 

 

There may be other things that go into getting Bundy as well.  I wouldn't mind giving up a mid-top 10 prospect along with Shark. I'd like to keep Castillo because of the defence but, ultimately, if the Orioles wanted him as well and we could get a lesser prospect in the deal, since I don't like it that is probably the deal that would get done, then so be it.

 

I think you could possibly get them to unload both for just Shark if the Yankees lose out on Cano, ARod loses his appeal and someone like Salty is still on the market.  That'd make them more willing to bet on the present.  We'd be risking that Weiters has peaked, Bundy never recovers while giving up a really-good AND cheap pitcher.



#6 jh03

jh03

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 260 posts
  • Twitter:@jh_03

Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:20 AM

I didn't see the report that you are talking about, but just because Wieters would be part of the deal does not mean that he is the main piece. Look at the Garza trade last year, Olt was not the main piece, Edwards was. You really can't judge a trade until all the pieces are known.

Tom Loxas reported it last night. 



#7 jh03

jh03

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 260 posts
  • Twitter:@jh_03

Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:23 AM

 

 

"

I figured this title was the best possible way to get Hansman to read it."

 

HAHAHAHA.  It worked.

 

The only thing I can see with Castillo is that they think the BABIP is unsustainable and/or he isn't able to be a full-time catcher.  If they think his BABIP is going to crash 30-40 points he suddenly becomes a below-league-average catcher offensively.

 

Opposite with Weiters.  If they think the Orioles are down on him and can get someone like Bundy thrown in (hooray TJ surgery), that would shore up the C position and give them a TOR arm that should be pitching mid-season next year. 

 I have similar thoughts on it.. but Wieters needs extended, just like Shark does. Does it make sense to send Jeff to the O's for another guy waiting to be extended? I get that it's easier to extend hitters than pitchers, but still..

 

And does Beef go with Shark in that deal in order to get Bundy? Do the Cubs have to give up more? This is why I don't see it happening.. I think each team values their guy (because of the weird situations all 4 of these guys are in) more than the other team would.

 

 

With Wieters you are in the same boat but he is a couple years younger than Shark so you'd be getting his prime years. 

 

There may be other things that go into getting Bundy as well.  I wouldn't mind giving up a mid-top 10 prospect along with Shark. I'd like to keep Castillo because of the defence but, ultimately, if the Orioles wanted him as well and we could get a lesser prospect in the deal, since I don't like it that is probably the deal that would get done, then so be it.

 

I think you could possibly get them to unload both for just Shark if the Yankees lose out on Cano, ARod loses his appeal and someone like Salty is still on the market.  That'd make them more willing to bet on the present.  We'd be risking that Weiters has peaked, Bundy never recovers while giving up a really-good AND cheap pitcher.

 

 

That's all very possible.  

 

I've just found it very weird that the Cubs have been connected to so many starting caliber catchers. Until now, they all passed as split-time options (except McCann, I guess, but I never saw that one happening).

 

Another thought is that if they think Beef's BABip will drop (like you said), they may just be looking to cash in on his value while it's at its highest. Assuming he's part of the trade.



#8 hansman1982

hansman1982

    King Regent of The Calendar Trivia Empire

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,939 posts
  • Twitter:JoeHansman
  • LocationDes Moines, IA

Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:32 AM

Ya, right now he is, quite possibly, at the peak of his value.  However, he would make an outstanding backup.



#9 CubChymyst

CubChymyst

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 426 posts
  • LocationManhattan, Kansas

Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:41 AM

The connection to starting catchers is possible from the media trying to find ways for the Cubs to become more LH hitting to get a balance line up.  With the current set of prospects the Cubs have and MLB talent you would likely project that 2B, 3B, SS, CF, RF will all be RH hitters. 1B has Rizzo, so that leaves LF and C as the only places to add LH hitter currently. I like Castillo, but I think the media isn't quite a hot on him as the rest of the Cubs players so they are  looking at the catcher position as a spot to improve the balance of the line up long term. 



#10 jh03

jh03

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 260 posts
  • Twitter:@jh_03

Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

The connection to starting catchers is possible from the media trying to find ways for the Cubs to become more LH hitting to get a balance line up.  With the current set of prospects the Cubs have and MLB talent you would likely project that 2B, 3B, SS, CF, RF will all be RH hitters. 1B has Rizzo, so that leaves LF and C as the only places to add LH hitter currently. I like Castillo, but I think the media isn't quite a hot on him as the rest of the Cubs players so they are  looking at the catcher position as a spot to improve the balance of the line up long term. 

If it's just the media trying to find ways to get more LH, then okay. 

 

If it's the Front Office, I don't like that.



#11 hansman1982

hansman1982

    King Regent of The Calendar Trivia Empire

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,939 posts
  • Twitter:JoeHansman
  • LocationDes Moines, IA

Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:19 PM

 

The connection to starting catchers is possible from the media trying to find ways for the Cubs to become more LH hitting to get a balance line up.  With the current set of prospects the Cubs have and MLB talent you would likely project that 2B, 3B, SS, CF, RF will all be RH hitters. 1B has Rizzo, so that leaves LF and C as the only places to add LH hitter currently. I like Castillo, but I think the media isn't quite a hot on him as the rest of the Cubs players so they are  looking at the catcher position as a spot to improve the balance of the line up long term. 

If it's just the media trying to find ways to get more LH, then okay. 

 

If it's the Front Office, I don't like that.

 

 

Unless they feel they could benefit from a LH bat and Weiters is good enough to obtain with the bonus that he is LH.



#12 jh03

jh03

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 260 posts
  • Twitter:@jh_03

Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:25 PM

 

 

The connection to starting catchers is possible from the media trying to find ways for the Cubs to become more LH hitting to get a balance line up.  With the current set of prospects the Cubs have and MLB talent you would likely project that 2B, 3B, SS, CF, RF will all be RH hitters. 1B has Rizzo, so that leaves LF and C as the only places to add LH hitter currently. I like Castillo, but I think the media isn't quite a hot on him as the rest of the Cubs players so they are  looking at the catcher position as a spot to improve the balance of the line up long term. 

If it's just the media trying to find ways to get more LH, then okay. 

 

If it's the Front Office, I don't like that.

 

 

Unless they feel they could benefit from a LH bat and Weiters is good enough to obtain with the bonus that he is LH.

 

 For it to make sense to me, the thought process would have to be:

 

1) Wieters is going to develop into the stud he once was hyped to be. Therefore being a great middle of the order bat to obtain.

2) Beef isn't going to repeat these numbers.

3) Bundy is somehow included.

4) The fact that Wieters can hit LH is a nice plus.

 

Which is similar to what you said. I just don't like the idea of trading Shark and possibly Beef for the notion that the Cubs need a LH bat.



#13 CubChymyst

CubChymyst

    Bleacher Bum

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 426 posts
  • LocationManhattan, Kansas

Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:42 PM

The FO is likely going to want a balance line-up. If I remember correclty LH hitters tend to hit will in Wrigley (which could cause a boost in Weiters numbers) so they will look to add another LH bat (I am hoping for a DH because I think Vogelbach would do nicely). Castillo has value and could be added to a trade to help a possible TOR pitcher + another nice prospect or two.

 

The idea is to maximize the value of the team. The transition from Castillo to a different catcher could be a step back at the catching position. However, a trade could be a bigger step forward for pitching and help balance the line up some which would be a net positive result for the team.

 

Edit - Just check and found out Camden Yards favors LH hitters more then Wrigley - so no reason to see a boost in Weiters Numbers. As Loxas reported the trade would be Shark + Castillo for multiple pieces.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Bleacher Nation is not affiliated in any way with Major League Baseball or the Chicago National League Ballclub (that's the Cubs).