14 replies to this topic

[MichiganGoat]

I've been against Ramirez return for 2012 since last spring. I think he is lazy, selfish, and disinterested in being a leader or a winner, but then he started to produce again and since the FA market is thin and we have no 3B replacement in place, the growing setiment was we should keep him. Then he starts to waffle back and forth between wanting to stay in Chicago and testing free agency. Now another installment in this game of chicken:
http://www.chicagotr...,5128997.column

I'm tired of this I don't care if we can't replace his production at 3B, but we CAN replace his me, me, me attitude and lack of leadership. I say good bye, thanks for the good memories, but good bye.

[Ron]

I think that it should be an almost complete rebuild, go young, go hungry or go away. The only thing I wouldn't be quick to dismantle in the pitching. In my mind Ramirez has to go. He IS the epitome of the culture that needs to change.

[MichiganGoat]

He IS the epitome of the culture that needs to change.

Couldn't have said it better, that is perfect!

[MichiganGoat]

Now MLBTradeRumors is reporting that Ramirez wants a multiyear deal... so

[Fishin Phil]

As much as I used to love Ramirez, I am fine with him leaving. Go test the free market, and best of luck to you. His defense has always been average at best, and awful the last couple of years.

[Brett]

If the Cubs are going to "go for it" in 2012, I think they've got to bring Ramirez back. There isn't a good internal option, and the FA/trade market sucks. But, anything more than two years would be a huge mistake.

If, however, the Cubs are going to do a short rebuild (increasingly, I think they should let kids play in 2012 with an eye toward spending big as necessary in 2013), let him go.

[Fishin Phil]

Now that I've seen your bullet on the front page about a multi-year extenstion, I would like to change my answer from no to HELL NO!

[CUB5]

I don't think any of the big names on this team should stay. Clean house. NOW. Start over, rebuild with guys that want to play and don't look back. Sure he's producing right now, but he'll surely want a big contract, and I think we would go into Soriano contract hell again.

[MichiganGoat]

CUB5 your avatar looks even more impressive on this board, if only there was a powerup mushroom that could make this team better

[belsen7]

Ramirez used to be a player I looked forward to seeing play. I now dread seeing Ramirez go to the plate. The clutch-hitting power he had is gone. He still shows up with power but it is sparse.

The factor that allows me to be more than fine with Ramirez leaving the Cubs is that he brings very little energy to the clubhouse for the younger players, which there are a growing number of. I am not in that dugout with Ramirez. I have no idea what he is like to be around but I can tell enough from his body language that he could not give a rats-ass about the younger players around him. Many times I see him in the dugout and he looks like me at 3 in the afternoon at work.

Veteran players do not have to be best friends with the younger guys but they at least need to bring something to the table as far as helping them out or showing a productive work ethic. He gave fans a lot to cheer about. He should leave with dignity, not a selfish-ass attitude like some people (*Sneeze-talks* Carlos Zambrano).

[dreese]

I agree he needs to go. His attitude and lack of effort are not teaching the younger kids how to be teammates!

[TFelt]

Yeah he could have, and might already, have a very bad influence on Starlin. Which to me is enough to let him walk and spend that money on starting pitching. I know Vitters is still a work in progress, but from the minor league updates I've saw on other websites he seems to be hitting better and for more power. Anyone heard about how his defense is? An infield with Starlin, Barney, Vitters, and Albert or Prince could be our future, but Brett is right if we want to "go for it" next season we need Aramis or have to make a big trade. I feel like if we keep Aramis, then he will get hurt at the beginning of the year and turn it on late like he has when we are well out of the race.

[King Jeff]

At this point, I don't think it matters one way or another in the win column for next year. What the Cubs need to ask themselves is if they think Ramirez is going to be a help or a hindrance on the development of the new core of the team. If they think he can be a good soldier and leader from here on out, they have to keep him. I personally don't see it happening, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Ramirez re-signed and came back with a different attitude next year with all the changes being promised. He does bring baggage, but if they can deal with that baggage, not only is he the best third baseman on the market, he might be the best bat outside of Pujols and Fielder. If the Cubs strike out or don't even take a swing at those two, it might be suicidal to let Ramirez walk away.

[EQ76]

I am in the minority that thinks A Ram's problems at the beginning of the past 2 seasons isn't the problem everyone else thinks.. The argument that his slow start puts us in a hole, to me, is ridiculous.. terrible starting pitching put us in a huge hole this year more than anything else.. plus, Pena, Soto, etc. have failed to do much either early on.

I believe Brett put it best, if we're "in it to win it" next year, pick up the option and ride out one final ARAM year.. if you rebuild, dump him.. there's no good option next year at 3B and he's got the best numbers on the team. I really don't think he's been the problem for this year that everyone else seems to.

Our pitching has been so bad this year until recently.. even now, it's just average..

[King Jeff]

if only there was a powerup mushroom that could make this team better

Hippie