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Garza to Red Sox Idea


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#1 JCubs79

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 05:54 PM

This isn't my idea but I read it on another site and it really intrigued me. I know these ideas tend get tiring but this might be an interesting idea to consider. The first guy considered was Will Middlebrooks but he is pretty much untouchable at this point. So here is the idea.

Matt Garza for Matt Barnes and other secondary pieces like Henry Owens/Garin Cencchnin/ etc. With Barnes being the headliner. Barnes is tearing up the minor leagues right now, has future ace stuff with his fastball being around 96 MPH and has a ridiculous K/BB rate of 42/4. Not to mention a 0.34 ERA and a 0.60 WHIP. He just got promoted to High A which was where he should have started and there is really no reason to believe that he could not make it to AA by the end of the year.

It could be possible that Epstien could demand two top guys if Garza continues to dominate like he did yesterday but this is an intriguing proposal in my opinion. What do you guys think?

#2 Luke

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:34 PM

If Boston were willing to include Barnes in a deal... a gigantic if, that... then I would do Garza for Barnes and Bryce Brentz in a heartbeat. The Cubs would get a starter for tomorrow and a legit power hitting outfielder who could be ready next spring. Odds are Boston would have to toss in a spare part or two to make it work, but that would be the core of the deal.

I'd rather extend Garza, but that's not a bad Plan B. I'd take that package over the Detroit duo.

#3 JCubs79

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:04 PM

If Boston were willing to include Barnes in a deal... a gigantic if, that... then I would do Garza for Barnes and Bryce Brentz in a heartbeat. The Cubs would get a starter for tomorrow and a legit power hitting outfielder who could be ready next spring. Odds are Boston would have to toss in a spare part or two to make it work, but that would be the core of the deal.

I'd rather extend Garza, but that's not a bad Plan B. I'd take that package over the Detroit duo.


Same here. I don't know how high Barnes is on the Red Sox top prospects list currently (MLB has his at 13) but I think it's possible that he could become available if the Sox are in contention come the deadline. They really do not have a solid pitching staff at the moment. If i'm the Cubs though, that's the type of deal I'm looking for. I don't think a deal like the Tigers would offer that being Turner and Castellanos would cut it at the deadline if Garza continues to pitch like he has so far.

#4 Crockett

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:31 AM

If you trade Garza to Boston and you don't get Middlebrooks in the deal, you've failed considerably. Cubs do not have a future 3B in the minor leagues and Stewart is proving that his inability to hit offspeed stuff is a legitimate roadblock, like it was in Colorado. Outfielders are a hell of lot easier to find than 3B.

As for the Tigers, Turner and Castellanos would be more than the Cubs could ever hope for from Detroit.

#5 Brett

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:27 AM

No one wants Bogaerts?

#6 DaneHuseman

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:29 AM

Ideally, you'd like 2 of Boegarts, Middlebrooks, and Barnes and then maybe an extra piece. I'd be okay with Garza and Vitters for Barnes, Middlebrooks, and Ranaudo.

#7 JCubs79

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:51 AM

If you trade Garza to Boston and you don't get Middlebrooks in the deal, you've failed considerably. Cubs do not have a future 3B in the minor leagues and Stewart is proving that his inability to hit offspeed stuff is a legitimate roadblock, like it was in Colorado. Outfielders are a hell of lot easier to find than 3B.

As for the Tigers, Turner and Castellanos would be more than the Cubs could ever hope for from Detroit.

I'm talking from Epstiens perspective. I think if Garza continues to dominate Epstien will demand more from Detroit then Turner and Castellanos. Just my opinion.

Of course I wanted to consider Middlebrooks too but I think the Red Sox consider him untouchable. Kevin Youklis isn't going to be in Boston much longer so they kind of need him.

I would be ok with Garza and Vitters for 2 of Boegars, Middlebrooks and Barnes and some secondary pieces. Preferably, Middlebrooks and Barnes.

#8 Luke

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:46 AM

Cubs do not have a future 3B in the minor leagues


You've given up on Baez already?

#9 Dumpgobbler

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:02 AM

I would imagine one of Xander / Matt Barnes, 2 ok Cecchini, Ranaudo, Middlebrooks, and Brentz, and one upside guy like kukuk for Garza and Camp. That would be realistic I would imagine. Best to wait a bit though. There will be more offers then ever if Garza continues. More playoff spots means the price of ace pitchers will skyrocket. Even teams like Colorado could want a sniff at him if they are still in it come mid season.

#10 Caleb

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:31 AM

I understand all the reasons that trading Garza could help the team out as a whole. And, I understand that most people who realize that would still be sad to trade Garza because he rocks.

However, those peeps need to realize that Garza should require more than just a good deal. Maybe even more than a great deal. I want this guy as a Cub. He IS a Cub. I think his passionate attention to every game is valuable. I think his hassling young players to get up on the fence and learn something even when they're not playing is valuable. I think his pitching is excellent and only improving. He is a known quantity to the Cubs, and that has value over mere potential.

So answer the phone when a trade deal calls, and keep an open mind. But make sure that if Garza is traded, it's for the right deal!

(What's the "right deal?" Just take whatever you think the "right deal" is, and add "oh, and btw, you have to take Soriano and all his salary" to it and you're in the ballpark.)

#11 Crockett

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:33 AM


Cubs do not have a future 3B in the minor leagues


You've given up on Baez already?


In the essence that he's 18/19 and still in the lowest of the lowest minor leagues, yes. Can't count on him for anything yet. Overlooking getting someone like Middlebrooks on account for Baez is not an intelligent move.

#12 JCubs79

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:07 PM

I understand all the reasons that trading Garza could help the team out as a whole. And, I understand that most people who realize that would still be sad to trade Garza because he rocks.

However, those peeps need to realize that Garza should require more than just a good deal. Maybe even more than a great deal. I want this guy as a Cub. He IS a Cub. I think his passionate attention to every game is valuable. I think his hassling young players to get up on the fence and learn something even when they're not playing is valuable. I think his pitching is excellent and only improving. He is a known quantity to the Cubs, and that has value over mere potential.

So answer the phone when a trade deal calls, and keep an open mind. But make sure that if Garza is traded, it's for the right deal!

(What's the "right deal?" Just take whatever you think the "right deal" is, and add "oh, and btw, you have to take Soriano and all his salary" to it and you're in the ballpark.)


I agree with this, We should keep an open mind. I would can see the logic in keeping him and in trading him, personally I am on the side of extending him at the moment. Your right, Garza is a great clubhouse guy and a dominating pitcher. I would love to keep him here long term as well. However, trading him could have more value to this team down the road then keeping him would as sad as I would be to let him go. Garza should be traded for a great deal like we have been discussing above if he traded at all.

I think something else to consider with Garza is how next year's pitching FA class looks. I think that if a guy like Hamels remains on the market and the Cubs want to make an all out attempt to get him, we would keep Garza and just build around those two and then bring up our own young pitching with guys like Maples and McNutt hopefully.

We defiantly need to keep an open mind though like you said.



Cubs do not have a future 3B in the minor leagues


You've given up on Baez already?


In the essence that he's 18/19 and still in the lowest of the lowest minor leagues, yes. Can't count on him for anything yet. Overlooking getting someone like Middlebrooks on account for Baez is not an intelligent move.


Giving up on Baez isn't an option at this point with how young he is. Heck he is still playing SS in the minors. It's possible he could stick at short and we move Castro to CF or 2B. That being said if the Red Sox offer Middlebrooks you don't turn them down because we have Baez in the system already.

My preferred deal with the Red Sox would be Middlebrooks (if he is not untouchable) and Barnes and then some secondary players like Owens etc. Then a high upside guy for Garza, Vitters and maybe a reliever and cash.

#13 Crockett

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:21 PM


I understand all the reasons that trading Garza could help the team out as a whole. And, I understand that most people who realize that would still be sad to trade Garza because he rocks.

However, those peeps need to realize that Garza should require more than just a good deal. Maybe even more than a great deal. I want this guy as a Cub. He IS a Cub. I think his passionate attention to every game is valuable. I think his hassling young players to get up on the fence and learn something even when they're not playing is valuable. I think his pitching is excellent and only improving. He is a known quantity to the Cubs, and that has value over mere potential.

So answer the phone when a trade deal calls, and keep an open mind. But make sure that if Garza is traded, it's for the right deal!

(What's the "right deal?" Just take whatever you think the "right deal" is, and add "oh, and btw, you have to take Soriano and all his salary" to it and you're in the ballpark.)


I agree with this, We should keep an open mind. I would can see the logic in keeping him and in trading him, personally I am on the side of extending him at the moment. Your right, Garza is a great clubhouse guy and a dominating pitcher. I would love to keep him here long term as well. However, trading him could have more value to this team down the road then keeping him would as sad as I would be to let him go. Garza should be traded for a great deal like we have been discussing above if he traded at all.

I think something else to consider with Garza is how next year's pitching FA class looks. I think that if a guy like Hamels remains on the market and the Cubs want to make an all out attempt to get him, we would keep Garza and just build around those two and then bring up our own young pitching with guys like Maples and McNutt hopefully.

We defiantly need to keep an open mind though like you said.



Cubs do not have a future 3B in the minor leagues


You've given up on Baez already?


In the essence that he's 18/19 and still in the lowest of the lowest minor leagues, yes. Can't count on him for anything yet. Overlooking getting someone like Middlebrooks on account for Baez is not an intelligent move.


Giving up on Baez isn't an option at this point with how young he is. Heck he is still playing SS in the minors. It's possible he could stick at short and we move Castro to CF or 2B. That being said if the Red Sox offer Middlebrooks you don't turn them down because we have Baez in the system already.

My preferred deal with the Red Sox would be Middlebrooks (if he is not untouchable) and Barnes and then some secondary players like Owens etc. Then a high upside guy for Garza, Vitters and maybe a reliever and cash.



This is exactly it. Obviously Baez has enormous upside, but plenty of those guys who were 18/19 failed completely. You don't turn down on opportunity to acquire a legitimate 3B who appears ready now or next season, if the deal is offered. Having an overabundance of prospects at a position is NEVER a bad thing.

#14 Luke

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:40 PM

I have no objections to acquiring a guy like Middlebrooks.

I just can't get behind the blanket assertion that the Cubs don't have a future 3B at all anywhere in the minors.

#15 JCubs79

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:51 PM

I have no objections to acquiring a guy like Middlebrooks.

I just can't get behind the blanket assertion that the Cubs don't have a future 3B at all anywhere in the minors.

I agree. I think we do have a 3b of the future somewhere in the system, whether it's Vitters, Baez or someone else, but it seems like a guy like Middlebrooks is ready now and would it would be ideal to build around him Castro, Rizzo and Jackson if such a trade were to occur.

I still think that Middlebrooks is untouchable and that I wouldn't be opposed to Barnes and another prospect.

In Levine's chat today, he said if Garza were to be traded we would most likely get two top pitching prospects and a top infielder. Is that reasonable to assume?




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