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Marmol ... WTF! (take two)


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16 replies to this topic

#1 BlueHorizons

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:38 AM

Someone PLEASE tell me why Sveum marched Marmol's sorry ass out to the mound last night with the game still precariously dangling in the undecided wind? I cannot describe the anger I felt when I heard the terrifying phrase "Mamol is warming up in the bull pen" uttered by Keith Moreland.

After another near-brilliant performance by Samardizja, the Shark must have been getting that all-too familiar feeling in his stomach. How frustrating that must have been to him, to see that piece of Marmol throwing in the 'pen!

As a fan, I know how disheartening it has been to watch the Marmol collapses, game after game, but can only imagine how much more intense those feelings must be to the pitchers who have successfully labored for many innings, only to look on in stunned disbelief as things come crashing down around them.

What does it take to convince Sveum and Co. that Marmol should NOT be in a big league game at this time and perhaps never again! I'm to the point that IF (and unfortunately it's looking like WHEN) Marmol is trotted out there, I am HOPING for yet another meltdown, with hopes that the final straw will finally break the camel's back.

In the meantime, I hope fellow teammates are purposely spreading the flu germs all over Marmol's locker and all of it's contents.

I don't know if anyone from the Cubs organization ever reads through BN and these message threads, but just in case... here's a personal plea to Dale Sveum, "PLEASE DALE... PLEASE NEVER PUT THE BALL IN MARMOL'S HAND AGAIN... NEVER, EVER!"

#2 FFP

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:30 AM

I turned it off. I can't explain what's going on, I just couldn't participate in another walk-fest. This morning I was glad to find that he started throwing strikes EVENTUALLY.

My best guess is that Sveum is working a head game on him or Jed or Theo. I don't know Sveum well enough yet. But I am learning. Everything else I know about Dale tells me to give him some slack. But I don't want to see those hard-earned late inning leads risked like that. And last night I found I didn't have to; I turned it off.

#3 MC2

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:17 AM

My feeling is he wanted him to get his work in last night so he won't work him today and cost Dempster another win. Round here we've started calling him Carlos Gossage-Marmol... ...

#4 BlueHorizons

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:05 AM

My best guess is that Sveum is working a head game on him or Jed or Theo. I don't know Sveum well enough yet. But I am learning. Everything else I know about Dale tells me to give him some slack. But I don't want to see those hard-earned late inning leads risked like that.


Agreed!! It's okay if Sveum wants to play head games, but not at the risk of losing a game that is as close to the W column, as these games have been. It's unfair to the pitcher on the hook for the win, it's unfair to the crowd, it's unfair to the fans... Don't jeopardize team morale, team confidence, the team record to make a point!

Perhaps Sveum is trying to build Marmol's confidence? If that's the case, walking the first two batters, and a wild pitch aren't likely to accomplish a boost in confidence. Yes, he DID get out of the inning, but a lot of it was luck. Catching the batter's off-guard by throwing fast-balls also helped, but you can't continue "surprising" batters, if you are throwing the pictch more frequently.

That shaky inning proved nothing except further underlining that he's currently broken and needs to be fixed, but fix him "down on the farm," not in a major league game with anything less than a run cusion.

#5 T C

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:32 AM

Dude, calm down, I've now seen this exact post on these boards like 12 times in the last two weeks, and at least three of them are from you.

Yes, Marmol is shaky. No, he probably should not have been out there last night. But who the hell else is Sveum supposed to throw in this situation? The bullpen is a wreck, and Marmol is probably still in the top half of the pitchers down there. Wood has been shaky, Camp is garbage, Castillo isn't much better, nor is Bowden, Dolis threw two innings the day before and Russel was slated to be the closer.

Who should Sveum have thrown instead of Marmol?
And you CANNOT just cut the guy. He's owed a ton of money, and was previously the most dominant closer in the game's history (16 k/9 is absurd). He's lost his slider, but if he gets it back, (and considering half the league's closers to start the season are now injured or replaced), he could look really good for a contending team to take on half of his salary.

"What does it take to convince Sveum and Co. that Marmol should NOT be in a big league game at this time and perhaps never again! I'm to the point that IF (and unfortunately it's looking like WHEN) Marmol is trotted out there, I am HOPING for yet another meltdown, with hopes that the final straw will finally break the camel's back... In the meantime, I hope fellow teammates are purposely spreading the flu germs all over Marmol's locker and all of it's contents. "

You call yourself a fan, man? This is pathetic, if you want the Cubs to win games, you should be hoping that he goes out there and fucking dominates like he used to. Actively hoping Marmol melts down is just dumb; more Marmol meltdowns are the exact opposite of what the team needs in, like, every way. Oh, sure, you say that it will lead to better pitchers in the bullpen, but will it? The bullpen is shaky, and there isn't much of anything in the minors to help out. And if you say "trade for a better one" I'm going to climb through my ethernet cord to slap you.

So, again, who should be in the bullpen instead of Carlos Marmol?

#6 Cubs Dude

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:02 AM

No one wanted to see Marmol out there last night. But I do agree with TC that there weren't a lot of other options as most of the pen has been used a ton lately. We all just to have faith that the F.O. and Sveum know what they are doing. And that there is a method to the Marmol Madness usage. Marmol was a great setup guy back in the day, so hopefully he can get there again. He still is really nasty so if he can get the feel of throwing strikes again we may have a dominant guy. So my advice is chill everyone. It's not like he is Soriano, who has absolutely NO value to the team.

#7 TWC

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:18 AM

...Camp is garbage...

TC, I agree wholeheartedly with much of what you wrote (my "DFA! DFA! DFA!" chant on the Game Thread last night notwithstanding), but I disagree with your assessment of Camp. He's got a 1.2 WHiP, and while his K rate is a not-very-high 7.2/9, he walks very few, and he's sporting a >100 ERA+. I wouldn't have a problem if he got a bunch more work to see if he's worth the bullpen spot.


I'm to the point that IF (and unfortunately it's looking like WHEN) Marmol is trotted out there, I am HOPING for yet another meltdown, with hopes that the final straw will finally break the camel's back.

I'm just gonna hope that this is hyperbole. You're not actually rooting for the Cubs to lose games, are you?

#8 Brett

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:25 AM

TWC, I agree wholeheartedly with much of what you wrote, but I disagree with your assessment of his K rate. 7.2/9 is actually high. No, it's not one of those garish rates you see from some relievers, but it's definitely above average.

#9 T C

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:28 AM


...Camp is garbage...

TC, I agree wholeheartedly with much of what you wrote (my "DFA! DFA! DFA!" chant on the Game Thread last night notwithstanding), but I disagree with your assessment of Camp. He's got a 1.2 WHiP, and while his K rate is a not-very-high 7.2/9, he walks very few, and he's sporting a >100 ERA+. I wouldn't have a problem if he got a bunch more work to see if he's worth the bullpen spot.


Yea sorry I was going by the eye test on him, just not a huge Shawn Kemp fan, looks like a mediocre 6-7th inning guy to me

#10 TWC

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:33 AM

TWC, I agree wholeheartedly with much of what you wrote, but I disagree with your assessment of his K rate. 7.2/9 is actually high. No, it's not one of those garish rates you see from some relievers, but it's definitely above average.

I've never really compared a bunch guys, but I always expected that for a reliever, you'd want an K/9 rate of at least 1 K per inning pitched. But it's possible that that expectation has been inflated -- by Marmol of all people!

Oh, yeah. You're a funny guy, Ace.

#11 TWC

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:36 AM

Yea sorry I was going by the eye test on him, just not a huge Shawn Kemp fan, looks like a mediocre 6-7th inning guy to me

His career stats are actually fairly impressive for a full-time reliever, especially over the last 4, 5 seasons (last year was not-so-good):
http://www.baseball-.../campsh01.shtml

#12 King Jeff

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:51 AM


...Camp is garbage...

TC, I agree wholeheartedly with much of what you wrote (my "DFA! DFA! DFA!" chant on the Game Thread last night notwithstanding), but I disagree with your assessment of Camp. He's got a 1.2 WHiP, and while his K rate is a not-very-high 7.2/9, he walks very few, and he's sporting a >100 ERA+. I wouldn't have a problem if he got a bunch more work to see if he's worth the bullpen spot.


I was kind of surprised that Camp was released this spring and he's been pretty good so far. I am far less worried when I see Camp warming up than I am when I see Marmol up.

#13 FFP

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:38 PM

"a method to the Marmol Madness" now there's a title for a future thread

#14 Brett

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 02:52 PM

Oh, yeah. You're a funny guy, Ace.

;)

#15 hansman1982

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:53 PM

TWC, I agree wholeheartedly with much of what you wrote, but I disagree with your assessment of his K rate. 7.2/9 is actually high. No, it's not one of those garish rates you see from some relievers, but it's definitely above average.

I've never really compared a bunch guys, but I always expected that for a reliever, you'd want an K/9 rate of at least 1 K per inning pitched. But it's possible that that expectation has been inflated -- by Marmol of all people! Oh, yeah. You're a funny guy, Ace.


K/9 isn't as important as K/BB - in Marmol's ridiculous 2010 season he also had a LaDiculous 6.0 BB/9 but could get away with that because he K'd 16 per 9 for a 2.65 ratio.

Camp this year, while only striking out 7.2 per 9 is also only walking 1.8 per 9 for a LaDiculous 4.00 ratio.

statcorner.com shows that the average reliever will K a batter in 19% of PA and Camp is K'ing 19.4 - basically average. He is walking 4.8% of his PA against a 9.5% average RP. That is how he is being successful. the last time he walked close to the average was in 2009 when he walked 8.7% of his PA.

Interesting factoid - Justin Verlander has not intentionally walked a batter since 2009! This reply made me miss blogging...:(




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