20 replies to this topic

[Cubs Dude]

I just wanted to get some feed back on why in the hell the Padres traded Rizzo for Cashner? I love Rizzo as a prospect like most, and am excited about him. But why in the hell did it only take Cashner to get him?? I am not complaining, just curious.. Was it the terrible performance last yr for Rizzo in the show? Cashner is at best a hard throwing good closer in the MLB, who has serious health concerns. Rizzo is a potential annual all star first basman for the next 10 years. Even with the secondary players, it seems the Cubs came out ahead in that deal. I know the Padres wanted to move Rizzo after they got Alonso, but Cashner being the best they could get gives me some concern... thoughts??

[Luke]

Don't forget the other two guys in the trade: Zach Cates to the Cubs and Kyung-Min Na to the Padres.

For the Padres, they were trading from a surplus (first base) to fill a need (hard throwing, young pitcher for the bullpen). In Cashner they felt they had their closer of near and hopefully long term future. From that perspective, they got a guy they can build their bullpen around for the next four or five years at the cost of a guy they couldn't use anyway. That's not a bad deal.

Cates is somewhat of a reclamation project for the Cubs. He has a lot of potential, but he needs a lot of work. In Na, the Padres got a potentially promising outfielder who was so buried in the Cubs' system he ran the risk of becoming fossilized.

I tend to think the Padres could have gotten more for Rizzo than they did, but probably not much more. Then again, some analysts said the same thing about Cashner. I think it was a pretty good trade.

[Mr. P]

It basically came down to the fact that they acquired Yonder Alonso as you said and that made Rizzo expendable. My guess is that they try stretching Cashner back out at some point down the road, but who knows he could develop into a great stopper before that happens.

[Crockett]

I really think if they had tried to move Rizzo before the Alonso trade, his value would've been improved. But the Padres cornered themselves there, if only a little bit. Neither guy can play elsewhere.

Also, Cashner has NEVER displayed the wildness he has this year. He was a far better pitcher for the Cubs than he has been for the Padres.

[Oswego Chris]

many scouts project Rizzo as a good, not great major leaguer..."not a superstar"

not saying they are right, just offering what SD may have been thinking

[Cubs Dude]

Personally, I just don't think much of Cashner. I know he throws a 100mph, but at best only see him as a very good RP. I also think Cates has more upside than Na. Honestly, I think it was a horrible trade for the Padres (even after they obtained ALonso), and love it from the Cubs perspective.
I will say I have not been too impressed with the F.O.'s other trades to this point though. But they clearly know what they are doing..

[Dumpgobbler]

A lot of people thought Cashner had TOR potential as well. Point remains that Cashner is still a huge arm with a ton of talent. I hated to give him up but would do it again for Rizzo. We did get the best of the deal, but I dont think its as bad as some of the other deals we saw this winter.

[Cheryl]

So, if the cubs use the same logic that the Padres used, then they will be trading from a position of strength. Who goes? Rizzo? Probably not. The FO is sold on him. LaHair? if he continues at this pace, he may be a valable trade. But at what cost? Vogelbach? He may be three years away but if Rizzo establishes himself there isn't any room for Vogebach.

[Luke]

The Cubs will worry about what to do with both Vogelbach and Rizzo when and if that happens. Vogelbach hasn't really started his pro career yet; he's years away from putting any pressure on Rizzo.

[King Jeff]

I think Vogelbach is probably more than three years away. He played 6 games in the Arizona rookie league last year and I don't think he's even been assigned to a team yet this year.

[Luke]

I think Vogelbach is probably more than three years away. He played 6 games in the Arizona rookie league last year and I don't think he's even been assigned to a team yet this year.

We'll get a better idea when Vogelbach starts playing, but three years is a realistic minimum. Remember that all he really has to do in order to be promoted is hit. He'll have plenty of time to work on his footwork around first base as he goes. The Cubs won't rush him along, but I don't think they'll delay him either.

This scenario would be possible if Voglebach's bat is as advanced as some seem to think:
2012 - Boise, late promotion to Peoria.
2013 - Peoria, mid season promotion to Daytona
2014 - Tennessee, mid season promotion to Iowa, Chicago in Sept.
2015 - Chcicago

If that scenario does play out, then the Cubs won't start wondering what to do with both Rizzo and Vogelbach until he's established himself in Double A in 2014.

[Crockett]

I think Vogelbach is probably more than three years away. He played 6 games in the Arizona rookie league last year and I don't think he's even been assigned to a team yet this year.

We'll get a better idea when Vogelbach starts playing, but three years is a realistic minimum. Remember that all he really has to do in order to be promoted is hit. He'll have plenty of time to work on his footwork around first base as he goes. The Cubs won't rush him along, but I don't think they'll delay him either.

This scenario would be possible if Voglebach's bat is as advanced as some seem to think:
2012 - Boise, late promotion to Peoria.
2013 - Peoria, mid season promotion to Daytona
2014 - Tennessee, mid season promotion to Iowa, Chicago in Sept.
2015 - Chcicago

If that scenario does play out, then the Cubs won't start wondering what to do with both Rizzo and Vogelbach until he's established himself in Double A in 2014.

I'm not just being a sarcastic dick here, but who actually thinks his bat is advanced? I've not read nor seen anything that would lead me to believe he has anything but power and he lacks contact and eye.

[Luke]

Baseball America for one. They love his power, but they have also bragged on his swing mechanics, pitch recognition, patience, consistency, and ability to drive the ball to all fields.

His weight and power tend to draw all the headlines (good and bad), but there is more to Vogelbach than 500 foot home runs. I had hoped he'd be in Peoria already, but we should get to see him in action before too much longer. We'll have a better idea where he is then.

[NormB]

SD thought, maybe still thinks, that Cashner could be a starter and not just a reliever.
They also don't buy into him being a middle of the order bat to build around. I've seen Rizzo projected somewhere along the lines of a .270/.350/.500 type.

[Fearbobafett]

I also thought that SD said that Rizzo didn't project as well as Alonzo in thier huge park and they wanted more of a gap/double's hitter which is why they went and aquired Alonzo in the first place.