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Holes...holes....and more holes...looking towards 2013


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#1 Oswego Chris

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:33 AM

Did I mention that it looks to me that the Cubs have some serious holes for next year? Now that they have proven to be the suckiest sucks who ever sucked(can you imagine there was some doofus on here a month ago who thought they could still contend because of their starting pitching?)...it's time to get a jump on 2013!...But I warn you, unless you have taken some heavy narcotics this morning, or have been eating anti-depressants out of a pez dispenser...you may not want to read.

OUTFIELD- at least 2 and a half holes to fill here...you have DeJesus if you want him(yawn) and in my humble opinion Brett Jackson is a 30/70 chance to be good at best...too many whiffs in the minors. So I will say, you're gonna need at least 2 starters for 2013.

3rd BASE- if you can bat him 7th or 8th, Stewart on a team full of bats may not be that bad...ah, but that is not what we have ..translation...a hole.

SHORTSTOP- If he keeps improving on defense...ding, ding, ding! we have a position player

2nd BASE- Darwin Bar.......no.

1st BASE- If Rizzo is not ready, than LaHair should have another year of being fairly solid. Enough depth here to say we have it covered.

CATCHER- Soto will be gone...young guys unproven and hurt, please God, no Koyie Hill...another hole

ROTATION- best case scenario, we need two starters...three if Garza is traded, and Samardzija is still a work in progress...so I am going to say 3 starting pitchers are a need...3 holes to fill

BULLPEN- Excuse my language, but this is a big heaping pile of shit. At least 3 or 4 holes to fill.

In summary, we need at least 2 OF's, a 3B, a 2B, a Catcher, 3 starting pitchers, and 3-4 bullpen guys. So in reality, of a 25 man roster, we will need 17 or 18 new players.

The rest of 2013 should be to try and find/acquire some. Any ideas on how to fill all of these holes?

#2 fromthemitten

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:29 AM

I don't see where the holes in the rotation are coming from. Assuming Dempster's gone we have Jeff Samardizja/Matt Garza/Travis Wood/Paul Maholm (if they pick up his option)... that's only one starter. Even if Garza is dealt, I doubt that Theo/Jed would pull the trigger unless they got a MLB ready starter in return. The biggest holes to me are at 2nd and 3rd which becomes especially glaring when you look at the free agent class.

#3 TWC

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:35 AM

I don't see where the holes in the rotation are coming from. Assuming Dempster's gone we have Jeff Samardizja/Matt Garza/Travis Wood/Paul Maholm (if they pick up his option)... that's only one starter. Even if Garza is dealt, I doubt that Theo/Jed would pull the trigger unless they got a MLB ready starter in return. The biggest holes to me are at 2nd and 3rd which becomes especially glaring when you look at the free agent class.

Honestly, I think 3rd is not the big of a concern. Stewart's (*gulp*) adequate. For now. I'd like to see more production at 2B and in the outfield. Also, I worry about the catcher. I don't' have any problems with Soto now, but he's about to outpace (or 'underpace') next season's salary demands.

#4 rcleven

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:36 AM

Your assessment is pretty spot on. The only spots i disagree with is the pitchers and the outfield. The outfield needs three players who can be at least 20 home run producers. Pitching will pretty much sort it itself out. You don't need a Philly staff to win today. Trading Garza can bring 1 pitcher and a bopper outfielder in return. Demp can bring another corner outfielder. Existing AAA starters can bolster the bullpen or slot into starters or possible trade bait. A lot of money is coming off the books at year end. Start to buy 1 pitcher and 1 infielder.
As you say way too many holes to fill. This is looking more and more like a multi year project.

#5 BlueHorizons

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:44 AM

Did I mention that it looks to me that the Cubs have some serious holes for next year? Now that they have proven to be the suckiest sucks who ever sucked(can you imagine there was some doofus on here a month ago who thought they could still contend because of their starting pitching?)...it's time to get a jump on 2013!...But I warn you, unless you have taken some heavy narcotics this morning, or have been eating anti-depressants out of a pez dispenser...you may not want to read.

OUTFIELD- at least 2 and a half holes to fill here...you have DeJesus if you want him(yawn) and in my humble opinion Brett Jackson is a 30/70 chance to be good at best...too many whiffs in the minors. So I will say, you're gonna need at least 2 starters for 2013.

3rd BASE- if you can bat him 7th or 8th, Stewart on a team full of bats may not be that bad...ah, but that is not what we have ..translation...a hole.

SHORTSTOP- If he keeps improving on defense...ding, ding, ding! we have a position player

2nd BASE- Darwin Bar.......no.

1st BASE- If Rizzo is not ready, than LaHair should have another year of being fairly solid. Enough depth here to say we have it covered.

CATCHER- Soto will be gone...young guys unproven and hurt, please God, no Koyie Hill...another hole

ROTATION- best case scenario, we need two starters...three if Garza is traded, and Samardzija is still a work in progress...so I am going to say 3 starting pitchers are a need...3 holes to fill

BULLPEN- Excuse my language, but this is a big heaping pile of shit. At least 3 or 4 holes to fill.

In summary, we need at least 2 OF's, a 3B, a 2B, a Catcher, 3 starting pitchers, and 3-4 bullpen guys. So in reality, of a 25 man roster, we will need 17 or 18 new players.

The rest of 2013 should be to try and find/acquire some. Any ideas on how to fill all of these holes?


Wow... (he says while looking for a Pez dispenser) I assume your opinion is that we need to fill those holes in order to be competitive? When you suggest 3 starting pitchers, which two pitchers are you envisioning remaining? (are you thinking Garza and Dempster will be back?)

I optimistically was thinking we were better off than that a few weeks ago, but the way things have played out since, I have to mostly agree with your assessment, however I think the number of holes to fill is a little lower than the "17 or 18". Since it's unlikely that that many holes can be filled before 2013, the plan would probably be to prioritize the hole filling, and reducing the expectations of the number of holes that can be filled.

In a pinch, the Cubs could probably get by with filling;
Outfielders - 1
2nd - 1 (though, lower priority... )
Catcher - 1
Rotation - 1 (or possibly more, if Garza and/or Dempster are dealt)
Bullpen - 3 (massive needs here)

Soo... maybe "just" 7-10 players needed! :)

Uhhh... maybe 2013 isn't going to be much of an improvement... maybe we are really looking at 2014 before this team can muster much of a challenge...

#6 Fearbobafett

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:04 AM

lookin at the 2013 FA class posted on MLBTR there is not much in the way of position players, unless the Yankees have a brain fart and let Cano/Granderson hit FA or you are in on BJ Upton ro Victorino. So all those open spots will need to be filled by the minors and or trades.

Maybe we can come in first place for the draft 2 years in a row?

#7 RizzoFanclub

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:13 PM

The 2013 FA class is awful b/c all the positions that are thin are the positions that the Cubs need. I want Garza to be traded for some young arms and maybe a position player (hopefully to Baltimore or Toronto) But I'm going to say for this argument that the only trade the cubs make is Dempster for a bullpen arm. Headed into 2013 the cubs need to sign one starter: Brandon Mcarthy or Anibal Sanchez, try to sign Michael Bourn on a 3yr or less (Upton will cost way too much but if he's avail on a 5 year or less deal you jump). I feel both will sign elsewhere but i'm going to be positive and say the cubs land Upton. Sign 2 relievers and call it a day your 2013 lineup that would actually compete for a wildcard:Upton,Castro,Rizzo,Lahair,Dejesus,Stewert,Cardenas,Castillo/Clevenger. Pitching being: Garza,Mcarthy,Samarz,Wood,Maholm.

#8 Oswego Chris

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:48 PM

In response to the questions about the starting pitching...I was just being conservative in that the likelihood of a Garza extension and the continued ascension of Jeff Samard.just seems doubtful to me...throw in the possible viable trade options we may have with Maholm and Dempster(and Garza) I just doubt we see 3 or 4 of the current guys back...in a perfect world I would love to see Samard. conitnue to be good, a reasonable four year deal for Garza and Dempster back on the cheap...I just don't see it all happening...

#9 Oswego Chris

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:49 PM

...and I will predict right now that Cole Hamels stays in Philly...so we should just stop that pipe dream right now...

#10 TWC

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:56 PM

...and I will predict right now that Cole Hamels stays in Philly...so we should just stop that pipe dream right now...

... and I predict right now that we win the World Series next year! Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Philo Bedoe!

#11 rcleven

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

In response to the questions about the starting pitching...I was just being conservative in that the likelihood of a Garza extension and the continued ascension of Jeff Samard.just seems doubtful to me...throw in the possible viable trade options we may have with Maholm and Dempster(and Garza) I just doubt we see 3 or 4 of the current guys back...in a perfect world I would love to see Samard. conitnue to be good, a reasonable four year deal for Garza and Dempster back on the cheap...I just don't see it all happening...

I would love to have Garza back. Will it happen? Not unless he backs off the no trade demands.Demp is Demp and getting older by the day.I see no future for him in the Cub system. I just hope he doesn't go into the crapper before the trade deadline.

#12 King Jeff

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

...and I will predict right now that Cole Hamels stays in Philly...so we should just stop that pipe dream right now...

I think if he leaves Philly, he's going to the Dodgers. They have a shat load of money to spend now that the new tv money doesn't have to pay off McCourt's divorce settlement and cover payroll. Anyways, they are probably going to be spending quite a bit and Hamels has some connections to the Dodgers somehow.

#13 rcleven

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:02 PM


...and I will predict right now that Cole Hamels stays in Philly...so we should just stop that pipe dream right now...

I think if he leaves Philly, he's going to the Dodgers. They have a shat load of money to spend now that the new tv money doesn't have to pay off McCourt's divorce settlement and cover payroll. Anyways, they are probably going to be spending quite a bit and Hamels has some connections to the Dodgers somehow.

Hammels grew up in the LA area. Could be a double edge sword. My bet is he follows the money.

#14 JCubs79

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:28 PM

Honestly, I don't think the Cubs will go after any big name FA's. I think that we go after one of the 2nd tier pitchers (Sanchez, McCarthy etc.) and maybe an OF like Upton but I'm expecting an off season similar to 2012. There going to stick to their plan and wait for young talent to begin coming in.

#15 fromthemitten

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:05 PM

the continued ascension of Jeff Samard.just seems doubtful to me...


Dude projects to be a top flight starter. I don't know why people keep doubting him. He didn't give up being a first round NFL draft pick for nothing. Dude's never been a full-time pitcher and he's only going to get better if he stays healthy.




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