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patg006

Member Since 20 Aug 2013
Offline Last Active Aug 31 2013 08:12 PM
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#53401 So, positives?

Posted by patg006 on 21 August 2013 - 08:08 PM

 

 

Okay can this thread just die the concept of meaningful discourse is not present, this is just turning into trying to talk to Skip Bayless - impossible but I'm sure some members of this thread just love (said very sarcastically) Skip debate skills.

 

Not to 'be that guy,' but you're not exactly adding anything meaningful to it.  Just kind of find it funny you say nothing meaningful is being discussed and you're adding to it.

 

Salami wants it better, we all do.  Some of us want it now, because this is a game that windows of opportunity are short and noncontention is prolonged.  

Nowhere on our 'Cubs fan membership' cards does it say we're not allowed to disagree or hate something the front office does.

 

Cano would be sweet, but for anything past a 4-5 year deal no.  If he took 4-5 years and 20-25 mil a year, give it to him.

 

I dont want Jacoby Elsbury, but then again I've never been a fan.

Choo would look great in a cubs uniform and center field for 4-5 seasons.

 

Garza aint coming back.

 

No thanks to Hunter Pence.

 

I would take flyers on Josh Johnson and Corey Hart (depending on his rehab situation.)  Hart hits LHP (career .317 average) and can drive in runs, neither item the cubs can currently do.

 

I'd love Lincecum and have always been a fan, but someone's gonna give him more than he should get.

 

Dont need McCann, would love Dioner Navarro to come back.

 

I make damn sure Grant Balfour's agent's number is on speed dial.

 

Wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz with a 10 foot pole.  He'd come cheap, and I can totally see him as an Epstein signing.  BUt I wouldnt.  

 

Nothing new Pat. Most have already cut off their scrotum after last years amazing progress and held it up high to the Wrigley marquee when it flashed the "Cubs Way".  This year is no different when "Commited" is up in lights. Still waiting for signs of both to actually happen. Although Keith Law did rank our farm system in the top ten after one draft and Hemmoroidys. So that must have been what the commotion was all about.

 

I'm not going to argue the Cruz/Hart with you. Both have their issues and both have proven to be productive.

 

Not a huge Lincecum fan. Wouldn't be pissed if they got him. His pricetag could be hefty if there's a bidding war.

 

McCann can hit the ball and call a game. If I made the investment at this point he'd be playing first base.   

 

 

McCann at catcher would be ideal if Castillo shits the bed the rest of the year.

 

I've always loved Lincecum.  I aint the world's tallest guy at 5'7, but I've heard the stigma that a stereotypical RHP ace is 6'3+.  Lincecum is my height.  He's listed as 5'11, but one day a few years back Santo and Pat Hughes were interviewing him, and Pat said they were the same height, even with Timmy in cleats.  (Pat's 5'8.)

 

Aroydys Vizcaino is a bust.  I'm sorry.  I can't see that guy with any future on the major league team.

 

Just so you know, still no dinner date buddy...

 

:angry:  :ph34r:




#53374 The Core

Posted by patg006 on 21 August 2013 - 06:17 PM

Who do you guys think "the core" is moving forward for this team?

 

I would say:

 

Castro

Rizzo

Castillo

Barney

Lake

Samardjiza

Wood

 

 

 

I know Barney's bat isn't great, but he's clutch, and gold glove defenders don't just grow on trees. I think Lake has athleticism for days, and he's clearly holding his own in LF. Maybe the kid just needed a big enough challenge to focus his attention on?

 

 

Think you're jumping the gun way too early here.  Right now we just don't know.  I keep hearing about Rizzo's ceiling, but right now thinking he could be 'Votto-esque' now has me thinking 'Laroche-esque,' and not the good Laroche (Adam?  Or Andy, I forget.)  

 

Some call my thinking narrow minded, I'm just tired of a great 4-5 day with a home run, pair of doubles and handful of RBIs followed by five days of 0-fers with walks.  He's not hitting his own weight.  This is a problem.

 

Samarzdija looks like an ace one day and a punching bag the next.  I'd listen to trade offers for him, I'd also be a happy camper if he got a 5 year deal.

 

Lake hasn't played a full year, let's not blow our loads just yet.

 

Castro is one of mine.  Finally the cubs and Sveum pulled their heads out of their asses thinking an aggressive hitter by nature can become a sabermetrics stat line.  

 

Travis Wood has impressed me.  Sure, I'll put him in.  He's no Andy Pettite, but he quietly keeps getting better.

 

Castillo?  Sure.

 

Barney?  Absolutely not.  Royce Clayton 2.0 (and that may be insulting to Royce because he made 1 all star appearance in his 16 years playing.)  Cant hit, can only field.  That matters when you have a guy on third with one out and the pitcher bats behind you.




#53371 So, positives?

Posted by patg006 on 21 August 2013 - 05:12 PM

Okay can this thread just die the concept of meaningful discourse is not present, this is just turning into trying to talk to Skip Bayless - impossible but I'm sure some members of this thread just love (said very sarcastically) Skip debate skills.

 

Not to 'be that guy,' but you're not exactly adding anything meaningful to it.  Just kind of find it funny you say nothing meaningful is being discussed and you're adding to it.

 

Salami wants it better, we all do.  Some of us want it now, because this is a game that windows of opportunity are short and noncontention is prolonged.  

Nowhere on our 'Cubs fan membership' cards does it say we're not allowed to disagree or hate something the front office does.

 

Cano would be sweet, but for anything past a 4-5 year deal no.  If he took 4-5 years and 20-25 mil a year, give it to him.

 

I dont want Jacoby Elsbury, but then again I've never been a fan.

Choo would look great in a cubs uniform and center field for 4-5 seasons.

 

Garza aint coming back.

 

No thanks to Hunter Pence.

 

I would take flyers on Josh Johnson and Corey Hart (depending on his rehab situation.)  Hart hits LHP (career .317 average) and can drive in runs, neither item the cubs can currently do.

 

I'd love Lincecum and have always been a fan, but someone's gonna give him more than he should get.

 

Dont need McCann, would love Dioner Navarro to come back.

 

I make damn sure Grant Balfour's agent's number is on speed dial.

 

Wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz with a 10 foot pole.  He'd come cheap, and I can totally see him as an Epstein signing.  BUt I wouldnt.  




#53364 So, positives?

Posted by patg006 on 21 August 2013 - 03:35 PM

I really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and opinions on this board.  I want everyone to note that I am completely on board with the rebuild but I want to bring something up that will make you think.  What if the Cubs actually spent money in Theo's first year and what the team would look like.  Here it is lets say the Cubs signed Prince at 9 yrs 220 million, resigned Aramis on a 3 year deal probably 30 million, Michael Cuddyer on a 3 yr 30 million deal, and lets say they signed Paul Maholm to the deal they got him,  and Dejesus to his deal The lineup would of been: Dejesus, Starlin, Fielder,Aramis, Cuddyer, Soriano, Castillo, Barney.  Pitching: Dempster, Garza, Cashner, Shark, Maholm.  This is if the Cubs kept the same payroll and you can not tell me that lineup would not have chance to make playoffs.

^This

 

Although I cant stand Barney at the plate, I'd almost be tempted to put Val there because of his bat.  Barney on a contending team is a back up MI.

 

I get rebuild, but I really wanted CJ Wilson at 5 years 75 million, I'd add that.  Angels got a steal and a half there...

 

Maholm just got it right.  He was always slightly above average, then on the cubs and for about a year in Atlanta he clicked....




#53362 So, positives?

Posted by patg006 on 21 August 2013 - 02:28 PM

 

Its been a tough year, so positives are tough to really talk about on the major league club.  To please to topic, I'll start with the small things.

 

Nate Scheirholtz.  Gotta be honest, thought this guy was a bottom feeding, lifetime bench player at best.  I'll call him a nice surprise.

 

Kevin Gregg's hot streak.  Now he looks shitty, but his 15+ great appearances is something to see in a positive light on a likely 95-100 loss team.

 

Soriano--oh wait...

 

Junior Lake's little run.  Cooled off then picked up again the other day.

 

Sadly that's about it.  I thought about Travis Wood, but he's been so average lately.  Overall starting pitching?  I guess that can be a positive.

 

Otherwise, I agree with Salami regarding the current direction of the team.  I have absolutely ZERO problem with restocking the farm system and building a nice little core there.  I have a gigantic problem with the 3rd highest revenue generating team intentionally tanking seasons for the sake of putting all the eggs in the farm system basket--and the McDonalds and Hotel-to-be.

 

I get a lot of fans are excited about the farm players like Baez, Bryant, Soler, Pierce, Almora, CJ Edwards, Vogelbomb, etc.; I am for the ones who make it and stick around. But we all gotta remember some things here.  Not every prospect makes it, in fact we should consider ourselves lucky if 2-3 of these guys make it.  Hello--Kansas City Royals with Alex Gordon, Mike Moustakis, Luke Hoechevar, Billy Butler, Eric Hosmer, Mike Montgomery, and right now, looks like SS prospect Christian Colon is about to join them.  Need more examples?  I'll be happy to show it.

 

What would I have done?  Well--there's no guarantee it'd be a playoff team, but I would never have traded Cashner for Rizzo, signed Prince Fielder, CJ Wilson, and Nick Swisher for starters.  

 

Its easy to play revisionist historian here, but I sincerely dont give a shit if the Daytona Cubs win the championship, because that banner wont fly in Wrigley.  I want to see the team now win.  

 

I understand the building process, I just dont like it because I know the team will lose and understand that prospects are essentially lottery tickets.  When you win, you win big.  But you're going to lose a lot more than you win with prospects.  My highest hopes are for Baez, Bryant, Pierce Johnson and CJ Edwards......but even then I'm half-empty until I see them in the bigs.

I've been pretty vocal in this thread so I will focus on your bolded section.

 

Show me where they are the 3rd highest revenue generating team. 3rd largest city does not equal 3rd largest revenue.

 

They spent quite a bit in the off-season. They will spend more this off-season. Just because they sell off at the non-waver deadline to save some money on a lost season doesn't make them cheap.

 

Not all eggs are placed in the farm system basket. They are making trades and scouring the FA market for high return guys.

 

The McDonalds and Hotel-to-be: This is not a part of the Chicago Cubs National League Baseball Club. That is Ricketts' personal money going to the hotel along with a joint venture. That is not money taken away from the ball club.

 

Pardon my error, they're 4th now in 2013 behind the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies at 274 million; still...

 

http://www.forbes.co...aluations/list/

 

The did spend this past winter.  I cant contest that, but not a lot.  

 

I hope they spend more this offseason.  Instead of being negative and likely being labeled as such:  what do you want to see them do?

 

For starters, a bat in the middle of the line up.  I'll even be so bold to say if Nate starts hot again next year show him the cash.  




#53361 So, positives?

Posted by patg006 on 21 August 2013 - 02:24 PM

 

 I have a gigantic problem with the 3rd highest revenue generating team intentionally tanking seasons for the sake of putting all the eggs in the farm system basket--and the McDonalds and Hotel-to-be.

 

I have a gigantic problem with the phrase "intentionally tanking seasons" being used over and over and over again.  There's no merit.

 

The team spent a shit ton of money last winter.  Only the most cynical won't admit that.  It didn't work out.  They spent what they could.  Shit happens.  With slightly better bullpen and a team that didn't have such an incredibly odd, upside-down BAw/RISP for the first two months we would have been looking at a much more interesting summer.  Alas, we got a summer sell-off.

 

The phase "intentionally tanking seasons" is just specious.

 

 

Ok, not doing everything in their power to put the best possible team on the field.  Doesn't matter what you like or don't, the cubs have had chances to add pieces and didn't.

 

Shit ton of money?  11 mil a year to a pitcher with an 8 mil signing bonus?  Nate Scheirholtz?  They spent, I cant dispute that.  But we clearly have different definitions of 'shit ton of money.'




#53345 So, positives?

Posted by patg006 on 21 August 2013 - 10:37 AM

Its been a tough year, so positives are tough to really talk about on the major league club.  To please to topic, I'll start with the small things.

 

Nate Scheirholtz.  Gotta be honest, thought this guy was a bottom feeding, lifetime bench player at best.  I'll call him a nice surprise.

 

Kevin Gregg's hot streak.  Now he looks shitty, but his 15+ great appearances is something to see in a positive light on a likely 95-100 loss team.

 

Soriano--oh wait...

 

Junior Lake's little run.  Cooled off then picked up again the other day.

 

Sadly that's about it.  I thought about Travis Wood, but he's been so average lately.  Overall starting pitching?  I guess that can be a positive.

 

Otherwise, I agree with Salami regarding the current direction of the team.  I have absolutely ZERO problem with restocking the farm system and building a nice little core there.  I have a gigantic problem with the 3rd highest revenue generating team intentionally tanking seasons for the sake of putting all the eggs in the farm system basket--and the McDonalds and Hotel-to-be.

 

I get a lot of fans are excited about the farm players like Baez, Bryant, Soler, Pierce, Almora, CJ Edwards, Vogelbomb, etc.; I am for the ones who make it and stick around. But we all gotta remember some things here.  Not every prospect makes it, in fact we should consider ourselves lucky if 2-3 of these guys make it.  Hello--Kansas City Royals with Alex Gordon, Mike Moustakis, Luke Hoechevar, Billy Butler, Eric Hosmer, Mike Montgomery, and right now, looks like SS prospect Christian Colon is about to join them.  Need more examples?  I'll be happy to show it.

 

What would I have done?  Well--there's no guarantee it'd be a playoff team, but I would never have traded Cashner for Rizzo, signed Prince Fielder, CJ Wilson, and Nick Swisher for starters.  

 

Its easy to play revisionist historian here, but I sincerely dont give a shit if the Daytona Cubs win the championship, because that banner wont fly in Wrigley.  I want to see the team now win.  

 

I understand the building process, I just dont like it because I know the team will lose and understand that prospects are essentially lottery tickets.  When you win, you win big.  But you're going to lose a lot more than you win with prospects.  My highest hopes are for Baez, Bryant, Pierce Johnson and CJ Edwards......but even then I'm half-empty until I see them in the bigs.




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